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Reader question: Wintering in Thailand and selling my house in the Netherlands

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags: , ,
February 16 2017

Dear readers,

We hibernate in Thailand every year normally 6 months. Now the costs keep rising and my pension benefits have not improved in recent years.

The plan now is to sell my house in the Netherlands and to rent something. So we are in the Netherlands for half a year every year. We do want to be registered in the GBA.

We can of course rent a house from a housing association, but that is also an expensive solution.

My question is does anyone have a similar situation? And how does he solve that? Or does anyone have an idea what is an acceptable way to rent something?

I'd love to hear any suggestions!

Regards,

Timo

Number of times read: 239

36 responses to “Reader question: Overwintering in Thailand and selling my house in the Netherlands”

  1. January says up
    16 February 2017 at 10: 23

    Dear Tino
    Renting in the Netherlands is expensive.
    Think about renting in Portugal.
    There you can still rent for +/- 350 euros per month.
    You do not need expensive health insurance in Thailand.

    • January says up
      16 February 2017 at 10: 40

      youtube link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHsI_eAIKyk (Portugal).
      Eight Miles From Home: info about Cost of living Hua Hin -BKK-Chiang Mai etc
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHsI_eAIKyk
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu8gVKjjEfA

    • Johan says up
      16 February 2017 at 12: 39

      In North Groningen you can also rent a house for 350 to 400 euros per month. Enough offer!! (I live there myself.) I am in a similar situation as Timo and am now considering buying a small house to avoid the expensive expat insurance. With the current interest rates, you can buy a nice home here for about 250 euros per month. So you retain the advantage of being registered in the Netherlands and staying in Thailand 8 months a year.

    • Lammert de Haan says up
      16 February 2017 at 14: 37

      Portugal doesn't seem like an option to me, Jan.

      With a company pension, which is the case here, you probably do not qualify as a qualifying non-resident taxpayer. Consequence: loss of tax credits, deductions for income tax and loss of tax-free allowance in box 3. Your AOW benefit remains taxed in the Netherlands. You 'may' pay more tax on that than the tax and social insurance contributions combined when living in the Netherlands. This makes you the 'milk cow' of the Dutch State: you don't get 'feed', in any form whatsoever, but you 'may' give 'milk', but preferably in hard euros, please!

      Then Spain is a better option. Even then you will not qualify, with all the consequences that entails, but both your AOW benefit and your occupational pension are not taxed in the Netherlands.

  2. Jan says up
    16 February 2017 at 10: 25

    Hi Timo.
    I don't know what your situation is now and what the cost of your mortgage is. You could consider buying a smaller house or renting/buying a small house at a recreation park since you don't live there all year round, this should be possible, a friend of mine bought a kind of chalet at a recreation park just across the border in Belgium, but of course you also have them in the Netherlands.
    Success.

  3. theo says up
    16 February 2017 at 10: 31

    I know several people in a similar situation. They rent a summer house on a campsite for the time they are in the Netherlands.

  4. Adri says up
    16 February 2017 at 10: 32

    Dear Timo,
    GBA registration is essential for this construction. The SVB will make things difficult if you are not registered. It is best to rent something from a friend and/or family and register there. Without GBA registration, they ask for proof of registration in Thailand. And you have an obligation to report when you return. With regard to renting furnished... it is very expensive. For that reason I bought a small apartment and I rent it out when I am in Thailand. Much cheaper. But the tenant is not allowed to register in GBA. Then SVB starts whining again. You are not allowed to rent out your house for longer than 6 months, in which case you will receive a discount on your AOW or partner allowance...
    You can email me if you want to know more.
    Groet
    Adri

    • Keith 2 says up
      16 February 2017 at 10: 59

      Dear Adrian,
      You will not be reduced on AOW if you have a commercial relationship with the person who rents your house (or a room in it). https://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/wonen_met_iemand_anders/huurder_verhuurder/

      Dear Timo,
      Renting out your house for several months that you don't live there is the solution I would choose. In fact, I have rented out my house for several years and rent something cheaper when I am in NL.

      I don't sell my house, because bricks hold their value (and therefore also generate rental income).

  5. Roeland says up
    16 February 2017 at 11: 12

    As Adri says, renting a summer house is indeed not a solution, because then you are not allowed to register with the municipality where the summer house is located. This unless permanent residence is allowed (not tolerated, but really allowed) which is only the case very occasionally.

  6. John Hillaert says up
    16 February 2017 at 11: 13

    i am in a similar situation
    would like to be kept informed of the responses
    maybe I can take advantage of it
    g Jan

    • Rene Chiangmai says up
      16 February 2017 at 16: 33

      I also want to stay informed.

  7. Food lover says up
    16 February 2017 at 11: 26

    We're in the same boat. We rent here in Thailand per year while we only stay in Thailand for 6 months, until last year this was 7 months, but for the state pension we are only allowed to be abroad 6 months a year, otherwise the health insurance will expire. While as a Dutchman you still ned outside for 8 months. May reside before deregistration. So we keep our owner-occupied apartment in ned.

    • Lammert de Haan says up
      16 February 2017 at 12: 13

      This is a misunderstanding, Foodlover. By the way, I often hear that: staying abroad for a maximum of 6 months a year. After all, most Dutch people who have emigrated to Thailand enjoy an AOW benefit. A Social Treaty has been concluded with Thailand for this purpose. If that had not been the case, you would immediately have to deal with the country of residence factor (it has been 0,4 for Thailand since last year) or a complete exclusion for the state pension. But neither is the case if you live in Thailand.

      In addition, your health insurance does not expire when you make use of the so-called '8+4 scheme', ie: 8 months in Thailand and 4 months in the Netherlands: you do not have to deregister from the municipal BRP and therefore remain a resident of the Netherlands. What can sometimes be annoying is if you have to undergo a medical procedure while you are in Thailand. If this is not of an urgent nature, you will soon be obliged by your health insurance company to have this treatment carried out in the Netherlands.

  8. RuudRdm says up
    16 February 2017 at 11: 33

    Timo, you want to sell your house because the (mortgage) charges and other costs are becoming too much. You compare the total of them with whether or not to rent, of which you note that this does not appear to be a solution. You want 6 months p.yr. living in Thailand and 6 months in the Netherlands, so that you remain registered in the BRP, formerly GBA. Of course, this has the advantage that you are insured against medical expenses in the Netherlands.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "an acceptable way to rent something"? If you mean "cheap", then that will not work in the Netherlands. Nor in neighboring countries. If you mean on a holiday park, then that is looking for a needle in a haystack. Holiday parks with the option to register with the municipal BRP often only offer owner-occupied homes. Please note: you cannot be registered in the BRP at every park. Please check with the relevant municipality first.
    At the time I sold my house that had grown too big (wife had already left, and children had left the door a long time ago). Mortgage paid off, and the rest bought an apartment. I now have no problems with financing, nor with rent. The fiscal owner-occupied home flat rate is leveled by the Tax and Customs Administration due to no mortgage deduction costs. Another advantage is that you don't feel that you live far away from the city and the people.

    • Evert says up
      16 February 2017 at 13: 19

      Dear RuudRdm,
      At the end of your piece I have a question, you say you are not bothered by financing, you still have rent, that may be possible, but do you have no service costs with an apartment? You may have forgotten to mention that they are there.

      best regards

      • RuudRdm says up
        17 February 2017 at 10: 50

        Of course there are monthly contributions to the VvE. They consist of
        1- (district) heating costs, so the less used, the lower those costs, so if you are in Thailand during the winter months it will be cheaper;
        2- service costs, eg for cleaning common areas, elevator maintenance, etc., and
        3- costs for general maintenance/renovation/gravity etc, so the better maintenance, the wider the margin of proceeds on (possible) sale later.
        In short: nothing is free, but after much deliberation it turned out to be the most acceptable for me.

  9. Lammert de Haan says up
    16 February 2017 at 11: 49

    Unfortunately Timo, I don't think there is much else to do than to rent from a housing association.

    In addition to the market for owner-occupied homes, the rental market is also under great pressure and renting in the private sector for less enjoyment of living will probably result in a higher rental price than renting from a housing association.

    And it is doubtful whether obtaining a rent benefit is one of the possibilities. If the house to be sold leads to a higher joint capital of € 50.000 as a result of any surplus value, you are no longer entitled to rent allowance. This also applies if your joint income exceeds € 30.175 or if the rent including service costs exceeds € 710,68. So keep this in mind.

    A maximum of € 132.752 applies to the healthcare allowance. How that will continue, depending on the level of income, you will know because you may already be entitled to it.

    • Jer says up
      16 February 2017 at 15: 06

      Yes nice a rental property not in the free sector, if you are going to register you have an average waiting time of about 15 years.

      • Lammert de Haan says up
        16 February 2017 at 17: 58

        That depends entirely on where you are looking for a social rental home, Ger. In Groningen (but not in the city) it is often your turn very quickly. Especially if you are also willing to live in East Groningen, even with vacancy in the social rental sector. By the way: recently the vacancy in Lelystad in this sector also amounted to 590 homes and you will find vacancy in many more places.

        And otherwise: a (short-term) divorce. The divorced woman is very quickly offered social housing as an urgent case. After 6 months you both discover that this is not 'you of it' and get married again. The man goes back to his wife whistling (but both enjoyed a 6-month AOW benefit for single people for a while). You have to give something for it, don't you?

  10. January says up
    16 February 2017 at 12: 18

    Best
    check out the app or website http://huizen.trovit.nl/ , there you will find rental houses in all price ranges. However, I think if you don't need the money you better keep your house and you can also rent it out via trovit or other good websites.

    greeting
    Jan

  11. Jan S. says up
    16 February 2017 at 13: 56

    I am in Thailand 6 months a year and do not intend to sell my house in the Netherlands. Then I always have the free choice where I want to stay later. I do rent out my house fully furnished during the period that I am absent. That rent is a welcome addition to my pension. If a tenant wants to rent for a longer period, I will rent something else.

  12. willem says up
    16 February 2017 at 14: 52

    Buy a holiday home/caravan and live there for 6 months. You can also rent it out yourself when you are in Thailand. You do not live in it permanently because you are in Thailand for part of the year.
    I am in a recreational park where I bought the house (60m2) for 30000 euros and pay 2200 euros per year for rent of the land.

  13. Ton says up
    16 February 2017 at 16: 24

    I have an apartment in Thailand myself. In addition, in the Netherlands a small apartment in an apartment complex for seniors based on a cooperative association. This is not full legal ownership, but a “right of residence”. The purchase price is considerably lower than in the case of full legal ownership (VVE). This right of residence can also be sold again. A mortgage is not possible. I like it very much. Safe building, detached, office staff, camera surveillance, warm social control, close the door behind me and I'm gone. There are monthly service costs, but you also have costs with a normal house. It is a first purchase (you may also have equity in your home), but after that it is not too bad: for the total costs I would not be able to rent for that long. I cannot and do not want to rent out; therefore never any worries or damage.

    Aside:
    Government does not like "ghost citizens". You remain officially registered somewhere (no postal address).
    I could have been financially better deregistered, but I pay tax in NL and thus retain the security of a decent health insurance. Sometimes an expat health insurance policy gives the guarantee that the client will never be “thrown out”, but after a few claims the premium is deliberately inflated so high that the client will automatically decline. And as an older young person, try to be accepted elsewhere with a foreign insurer.
    Health insurance: take out supplementary insurance, so that you do not have a problem if you end up in an expensive hospital/clinic abroad, otherwise you may pay the difference between the Dutch price and the possibly higher Thai price yourself. Your insurance company can tell you all about it. In addition, a continuous travel insurance and you are good.
    Success.

    • Renee Martin says up
      17 February 2017 at 14: 02

      Ton could you tell us a little more about that right of residence and, among other things, what the actual costs are, because maybe this is also something for us.

      • Ton says up
        17 February 2017 at 19: 02

        René,
        The normal situation is usually an apartment building based on full legal ownership, where members are members of the VvE. Another legal form is the Cooperative Association, of which you can become a member. The residents (age limit min. 50 years) are united in the General Assembly (AV) and elect their own board and committees from among themselves. In a CV there is no full legal ownership, but there is a right of residence. As a new resident, you buy the right of residence for an apartment. The advantage of a right of residence is that the purchase value is low compared to an apartment building with an Owners' Association. With the purchase of a residential right, you acquire the economic, but not the legal, ownership of the apartment. A right of residence is transferable (just like legal ownership via a notarial deed).
        No mortgage is possible on a residential right of an apartment. Nor can the Social Assistance Act be invoked. Therefore, the financial situation of a potential resident must be such that one can also pay the housing costs in the future. The purchase price of the right of residence can fluctuate, depending on the CV and the general market situation.
        Just like with a VvE, service costs for staff, building maintenance, etc. are also paid with a CV.
        Service charges may vary: some CVs have reduced their service package to basic. Others offer a full package (including meals); this does have the price tag of a real full-service flat.
        A few years ago in the center of NL, in a quiet, wooded area with many amenities in the immediate vicinity, I bought a flat of approx. 65 m2 for EUR 28.000 (hall, toilet, kitchen, spacious living room, 1 bedroom, bathroom, 2 balconies, EUR 12.000). Current value approximately EUR 50.000 Apartment with 2 bedrooms now sells for approximately EUR 100.000 In a VVE, the amount would be higher.
        Service costs for 1 bedroom almost EUR 400/month, which includes many things as standard, such as TIG TV channels and water consumption; painting and garden (park) are now done for us residents.
        Put the purchase price on the table immediately upon purchase. After that only the service costs; I can't rent anything normal for that amount anywhere, not even through a municipality, with many conditions and higher amounts.
        Money in the bank yields nothing, and some savings are unreasonably taxed; rather than invest in bricks, value normally also keeps up with inflation, and especially the last 2 years of net value increase due to improving housing market. Many seniors who still live too big and want smaller; independent with privacy, but not alone.
        In that case, a senior flat can offer a solution. And based on CV usually at a lower cost.
        Nevertheless, often a kind of selection in residents, because people have to contribute money themselves.
        The government wants us to live at home longer, the private equity firm, many nursing homes closed, little supply of good senior flats, so there is increasing pressure.
        Renting out is not allowed. I don't want either: mostly hassle, dangerously fast rent protection, damage by tenants, even cannabis plantation.
        So I keep it simple and go on holiday with peace of mind.
        Quite a story.

  14. Roel says up
    16 February 2017 at 17: 19

    Try to find someone in the same situation and share the house, saves a lot of money and everyone benefits. They do that with cars, even in the Netherlands.

  15. René Martin says up
    16 February 2017 at 18: 53

    Renting out your house for a certain period seems to me the solution to save money. You may be able to store certain items elsewhere. The example of living in Portugal, for example, appeals to me, but the medical situation there is significantly different. Also a consideration. Social housing may be difficult to obtain in the short term and you are usually not allowed to rent it out and you also have to meet certain conditions. Free sector may be possible, but the annual rent increase is significant at the moment. Recreation park see the other comments.

    • Lammert de Haan says up
      16 February 2017 at 20: 20

      Living in Spain is far preferable to living in Portugal, René Martin. See my earlier post on that.

      Renting can certainly be an option, but don't start pioneering yourself with a rental contract. Engage a rental agent for this, because before you know it you will be stuck with rent protection for the tenant. After all, this concerns renting and letting of a home and not of a business premises.

      • Renee Martin says up
        17 February 2017 at 14: 04

        I am a city person, so I want to live in a big city. Rents are significantly more expensive in the center of Spain's major cities than in Portugal. Of course you have to keep a close eye on the taxes you actually have to pay

  16. rene23 says up
    16 February 2017 at 20: 50

    This is mainly about people who want a place in NL / Europe because of the health insurance costs. while they actually (want to) live in Thailand.
    Has anyone actually researched this properly, is there anything to be found about it?
    I am thinking of registering in the poorest country in Europe, Romania, and thus avoiding the rules.
    Anyone ideas??

    • Johan says up
      17 February 2017 at 11: 16

      I was thinking about that too, I'd like to brainstorm about it with you. If anyone has similar ideas, my email is: [email protected]

  17. Rene Chiangmai says up
    16 February 2017 at 21: 27

    I have an apartment in the Netherlands.
    There is still a mortgage on it.

    The bank does not allow me to sublet this house.
    The VVE also does not allow me to temporarily sublet this house. Through Airbnb, for example.

    I just wanted to let you know.

    In a few years I would like to spend the winter (or longer?) in Thailand, but for now I will still live in the Netherlands.

    • Renee Martin says up
      17 February 2017 at 14: 07

      Usually the VVE allows you to rent out for a long time (minimum 6 months). The bank includes the rule that you are not allowed to rent out, but you could contact your bank if the VVE agrees to discuss whether there are possibilities.

  18. Timo says up
    17 February 2017 at 07: 07

    Thanks for the many responses.

  19. Lammert de Haan says up
    17 February 2017 at 11: 41

    Just two comments, Corretje:

    1. The medical facilities in Spain are highly regarded. I cannot judge the situation in Portugal (no experience with it).

    2. Contrary to what you state, the tax and social insurance contributions together are lower than just the tax when living in Thailand. That difference quickly increases to several thousand euros and if you also have a tax partner, you can even count on double. A few years ago an article was posted in Thailand Blog, in which the writer indicated that this difference could amount to € 2.000. In reactions to this, this was often questioned and some even considered it grossly exaggerated. In my tax consultancy practice, however, I do come across cases where the difference has risen to € 4.000 if you live in Thailand instead of in the Netherlands.
    In addition, the costs of health insurance in the Netherlands are also a lot lower than such an insurance in Thailand. In addition, the Netherlands has an acceptance obligation, without exclusions. Compare that with Thailand!

    I think you are not well aware of how that is arranged in Thailand.

  20. Peter says up
    17 February 2017 at 21: 01

    I still live and work in the Netherlands, have stayed in Thailand for 2 years.
    I have had a postal address in the Netherlands for 15 years!! Note none!! Mailbox.
    Can use all the 'conveniences'.
    It is true, I thought, that you are only allowed to be abroad for 180 consecutive days due to health insurance costs.


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