Reader question: 'Burn all ships behind me'
Dear readers,
I am about to retire to Thailand for good and hopefully never return to the Netherlands. Not because I expect to have only a short life ahead of me, but I've had it all in the Netherlands and have no business there anymore.
I cannot leave anything behind in the Netherlands, not even my administration. During the last 5 years that I was in the Netherlands, I had to correspond a lot with authorities.
I always made sure that I had my files in good order because it was often necessary to point out errors to authorities. I will be very happy when I finally get rid of that. Since my administration contains a few kilos of weight and I am only allowed to take 20 kg on my last flight, it makes sense to me that I destroy everything besides my AOW and pension administration. Since I have no experience with this and am afraid that I destroy too much that I may need again, I ask if there are any compatriots who have experience with this?
I cancel the rental agreement and all subscriptions. I block all direct debits. My bank, the SVB and Pension Fund will receive my new address in Thailand. I deregister in the current Municipality and give them my address in Thailand and have this confirmed in an official document.
I plan to call the Tax and Customs Administration to see if they owe me anything? if so, I keep my Dutch bank account so settlements can still take place. I have my belongings picked up by the 'Kringloop' and the befriended landlord can keep the deposit for returning the rented property to its original state.
I'm all rid of that, but what do I do with my administration of the last 5 years? What can go and what can't go?
I would really appreciate it if there are Thailandblog readers who can give me constructive information.
Thanks in advance.
Nothing
You can also send it to Thailand in a shared container, not by airmail, but via a shipping agent with ship. You never know what you might need again... It will take a little longer, but that won't be a problem.
Dear Rien,
I just scanned the most important parts with my printer and put them on an SD card. You can also, if you don't have a printer, just photograph the most important junk with your cell phone.
Chances are that you will never look at it again and never want to read that misery again.
Regards,
Wimpie
As for your administration, scan everything you think you'll ever need and put it on a USB stick or something, then that problem is solved. And it doesn't weigh more than a few grams.
Enough has already been written about going to Thailand on the blog. Think about health insurance for example. I don't know if you speak Thai or not, but even then you will still be the farang. In short, there are also many hooks and eyes on moving to Thailand. Also remember that you have no rights in Thailand except the right to frequently pull your wallet. I would not immediately burn all ships behind me. Still, I wish you luck
Harry
China airlines and Emirates 30 kilos
an upgrade to business class? (more luggage possibility)
Rent a storage?
Scan everything (or have it scanned)?
I read the following: I have always made sure that I had my files in good order because it was often necessary to point out errors to authorities. I will be very happy when I finally get rid of that.
You are now going to a country where people can regularly question authorities and files.
So you may not be relieved of this kind of frustration in the future.
Good luck and safe journey.
The simplest is to scan everything.
Then you know for sure that you don't throw things away that you later regret.
Perhaps there is a service company nearby that has an automatic double-sided scanner.
That may cost a bit, but it saves a lot of time and work.
In any case, I would keep tax and any benefits or allowances.
There may still be calculations.
After a few years I also suddenly received a settlement of care allowance, because I had not worked a full year in the year of my emigration and therefore had little income.
A gift I hadn't counted on.
In addition to the options already mentioned (scanning, sea freight), you can also consider unaccompanied air freight with the same company you fly with. This is 3x cheaper than excess checked baggage. The luggage will then be collected and delivered to you, so there is no dragging. Your airline can provide you with more information. NB the luggage is often not on the same plane but arrives within a few days.
As mentioned earlier, scanning the papers is the easiest way, but you can also send your administration by sea mail. If you want to take them with you right away, you can take a second (or more) suitcases with you by paying extra, by plane. At KLM I thought that was 80 euros extra for a single trip for a 2nd suitcase last year.
Why pay 80 euros if you can put everything on a memory stick you never know.
Log in to rijksoverheid.nl via digid and all your details are already saved……………
Everything goes digital these days, so feel free to throw all your paperwork in the shredder.
I'm working on the same thing. Can we keep in touch?
I leave June 21st.
frgr. Joe
[email protected]
NEVER throw away anything that has to do with the tax authorities or other governments. Scanned if necessary, but better the original incoming piece of paper.
Then send it by sea mail OR.. find an exporter of goods to Thailand and ask if you can put a few boxes in his container.
Another possibility: a freight handler in Rotterdam, who ships LCL (less container Loads). Send your own stuff to TH with that.
zie http://www.top.nl (Ronald) or http://www.merzario.nl (Victoria).
Why not just put everything in a box and have it kept by a family member or good friend or acquaintance in the Netherlands
If something is going on, for example a settlement of healthcare allowance or something similar, you have that person look up the relevant documents and send them to the tax authorities or you have it scanned and emailed to you, so that you can arrange it yourself. from Thailand
You will probably never need anything from all that administration again, but you never know for sure…
You are also obliged to keep administration for at least 5 years!
Good luck with it, and have a nice time in Thailand, greetings Peter
As far as I know you have to keep records for at least 7 years.
Tax debt lapses to 5 years.
The best solution is to scan and put on a USB stick.
But I think you will never need this again .
I myself threw everything in the paper container,
when I left, only kept a few papers from 2015.
Most of it is stored online at the tax office.
All you need is your Digi-D code.
Thanks for your advices.
Scanning, photographing and storing is indeed the best option to avoid carrying around a lot of paper.
I read advice about freight and shipping, I see the Dutch administration as a bigger 'ballast' than those kilos of paper. That's exactly what I want to get rid of. I grew up with advice, 'don't throw anything away because you never know...'. I have moved about 20 times in my life and have often had to or could throw away everything.
Having spent most of the time in Thailand from age 39 to age 60, I have long been looking forward to this moment when I can reside in Thailand without the need to work in order to raise my children. The children are independent and I am assured of a regular income.
My decision to leave the Netherlands is a well-considered decision. Thailand cannot match as much administration as is required in the Netherlands and as many mistakes are made by authorities. The advantage for us Dutch in the Netherlands is that we have 'rights' there. Then that is also the only advantage.
By the way, the 'tip' about China Airlines and the 30 KG baggage allowance is interesting, but then I have to travel from Schiphol with the risk of daily disruptions on railway lines and in tunnels while I live 1 hour's drive from Dusseldorf.
Something else. Have you already arranged your health insurance?
You deregister in the Netherlands, so you can no longer use health insurance in the Netherlands
Best ,
In the Netherlands you are obliged to keep the administration of the last 7 years.
the tax authorities, among others, can still claim on this.
Henk's suggestion seems very acceptable to me, you have everything - you can check everything - you can respond to any. additional assessments and throwing something away with confidence every year.
(sigh) If only you could send the accounting to the tax office, with a letter attached,
Find out at your leisure... And please don't bother me anymore.
That would be quite a relief.
Good luck with your plans.
1 Give it to a friend for safekeeping, if you still need it, have it sent to your Thai address as a postal package. To be honest, I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of everything.
2 Scanning is of course more convenient because then you simply take it with you on an external disc or in the laptop if you use it.
3 Ask the airline what it will cost you to bring an extra suitcase, these costs may well outweigh the benefit you can have from it. At the time I paid $80.- at KLM for an additional 23 kilos.
4 Take part as a package in your hand luggage, if it is not too big/much. I transported my absolutely important parts of my administration that I did not want to lose in this way.
I 'moved' more than 2,5 years ago, but still had a number of things that I wanted to take with me, nothing big, but for example € 3.000 in tools, kitchen utensils that I was attached to, paintings, (summer) clothing, nice cutlery, etc. etc. Via Windmill; I was pleasantly surprised by the low rates.(http://www.windmillforwarding.nl/particuliere_verhuizingen/over_ons/bedrijfsprofiel_windmill_forwarding.aspx) 4 cubic meters moved, door-to-door (Phuket) for less than € 1.500, great company.
If it's really just paper: no sibling/confidant who can file this? To be on the safe side: you are obliged to keep administration, documents, etc. for 5 years with regard to tax matters.
Dear Rien,
Don't underestimate the IRS. You have to think about that first.
I don't know on what date you want to officially deregister yourself from the municipality of your place of residence.
This deregistration date is very important for the tax authorities. Everything after this date up to and including the end of the year will be settled by the Tax and Customs Administration. For example, healthcare allowance and rent allowance.
If it later turns out (up to 5 years after your departure) that your taxable income for healthcare and housing allowance was understated, you will receive a settlement that you must pay extra.
Please note. If you leave NL in 2016, you may only file your tax return for 2017 in the first quarter of 2016. If you leave in 2017, the return is logically due in 2018.
So there is little point in calling the tax authorities now. The tax authorities wait until all your employers have made your annual income and deductions available to them. Also your possessions.
Therefore, I would like to advise you the following.
Hire a secure cloud.
Scan all your administration. Put them on the cloud.
Also put the administration on a USB stick and also burn it on a DVD.
A USB stick can be accidentally erased or damaged beyond repair.
A DVD can also get damaged. Hence an option of the cloud.
As indicated earlier, some airlines allow you to transport up to 30 kg of luggage.
You can also have important items transported by sea freight (groupage). So you don't have to rent a whole container.
Much wisdom and success,
Chander
Hi Rien.
Did the same thing 2 years ago. I am Belgian, retired. Married in Thailand. Have 3 children in Belgium. Left everything behind. Feel free to email me at
[email protected]
See you
Cheers
Chris
I can give you good advice, I live here permanently on retirement.
Burning all your ships behind you is just stupid .
If you move here, make sure you always have an emergency exit if you ever want to return.
Oh yes I know , nothing in HOLLAND is good anymore , read it almost daily in reactions and in the media such as De Telegraaf .
But after a while you find out that Thailand is not the Walhala either.
It is not without reason that the Netherlands and countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Australia are high on the world rankings as the best countries to live in.
As a simple example, just look at the roads here, in the Netherlands you drive as if you were on a carpet, here in Thailand you go from one hole to the other.
But after living here in Thailand for a while, you are confronted almost daily with corruption and what happens around you, can you live with this??
Because as the well-known proverb says, the grass is always greener on the other side of the horizon.
In any case, make sure that the majority of your savings remains in the Netherlands.
And book the necessary or a little more that you need to live annually in a Thai bank account.
Make sure that you continue to pay contributions on the basis of a voluntary AOW, for a maximum period of 10 years.
Good luck in Thailand.
Jan Beute
Moderator: Please only respond to the reader's question and please do not chat.
You can't leave anything behind in NL you say, via PostNL you can send a box with a maximum of 20 kg. per box. It may take a while for it to arrive, have had good experiences with it. Check their site for the maximum sizes.
Success.
Nico B
Throw away everything except that which relates to AOW and pension. There you have upright because you built that up yes. Although, the Dutch state has made a significant contribution to your AOW build-up. If you also waived those Dutch benefits, Thailand would have little to offer you. Without money, nobody cares about you in Thailand, especially the women. Thailand is not paradise. It is not for nothing that so many Thai women are happy to leave for the Netherlands. They will gladly take your place.
Put everything in 1 suitcase (little)
Label it: archive nl.
Don't spend your time looking at all that paperwork again.
Spend the time in well-thought-out preparation for a LIFE here.
After five years of burn. And get rid of that paperwork.
From the age of 14 until 2008, I kept everything with my name on it. That was about 80 binders. No one in the family wanted that. I threw it straight into the waste bin. Only the last tax, pension and state pension papers are kept.
A good friend of mine always says (and he should know, take it from me) “you can move to the end of the world, but you always take yourself with you”.
And he is absolutely right about that. If you let all the bureaucracy and hassle ruin your good mood in the Netherlands, that will also happen in Thailand.
Here too you run into less pleasant things. That is insurmountable. Perhaps it is even worse here precisely because of the language barrier and the completely different habits and customs.
You are quite right if you want to settle here in Thailand. Absolute. But don't get too rosy.
I myself live in Thailand, I am married to a Thai woman and I am happy here. But I do have something I can fall back on if necessary. An escape route. And that is a comforting thought.
Anyway good luck. And with regard to your administration: indeed put everything on a stick and through the paper shredder with it.
I've also thought about it. But not from a spiteful idea to burn all ships and people behind me (After all, you can't burn your own identity/culture either, you will always and everywhere remain a Dutchman).
More because of cost. Do I have to maintain a rental house here in the Netherlands if necessary?
Costs a lot of money. Put tenants in? I've heard of people getting into it quite a bit. Thailand is far away and the tenant is building up more and more payment arrears. What do you do about that remotely? Do you have to burden family or friends with that? Moreover, the neighbors can click and then I have a problem with the landlord. A postal address? Possible, but I will have to live in the Netherlands for a few months. Or should I just stay away secretly?
I also want to go to the Netherlands for a few months. Have a lot of family, friends, etc. here. Maybe the situation of the letter writer is different in that respect.
If I emigrate (because that's what I'm actually doing), I have found out that I can expect all kinds of problems. Firstly: my AOW accrual stops. I have not yet reached state pension age. Secondly: My insurer refuses me basic health insurance. Very annoying, because in Thailand it is expensive. Especially for a person over 60. If you already have complaints, exclusion clauses are often drawn up for this. High bloodpressure? Risk factor! Many extra premiums or exclusion from resulting complaints. The question is also how long it will take before they start tinkering with expats' AOW pensions.