Dear readers,
I have a question about obtaining a mortgage in the Netherlands, while I am married in Thailand in community of property with a Thai woman.
I married a Thai woman in Thailand in 2016. After that I had this marriage registered in the Netherlands. My wife then received a BSN number. The reason for this registration was really only that my wife would receive a widow's pension when I die. We have absolutely no intention of ever applying for Dutch citizenship for my wife. She currently has a Schengen visa, and she comes to the Netherlands about once a year. And when I'm not working, I'm in Thailand as much as possible.
Now the following occurs. I want to free up some money from my Dutch home by increasing my mortgage. The house is only in my name and was recently appraised, all documents were handed in and everything seemed in order. But now the notary and the mortgage lender think that my Thai wife, who is currently in Thailand, will become co-owner / debtor of this mortgage and may have to sign for it. That is not so easy of course because she is in Thailand.
The fact that my wife has to sign is not yet final, my intermediary, civil-law notary and the mortgage lender are still investigating this further. But I would like to receive some information about this in advance. Then we can take action if necessary. Let's see if a power of attorney or something can be drawn up in Thailand.
Maybe someone has experienced the same?
So if there is anyone who knows something about this, and perhaps also knows where all the information about this can be found, I would like to hear from that person.
Thanks in advance for all the responses.
Regards,
Martijn
I don't know what your wife's signature looks like, but my wife just wrote her name in Thai. When my wife was not with me in Belgium and an official paper still had to be signed, I did the following. I had my wife put a signature on paper. I took the paper to be signed and the paper with the signature to a Thai acquaintance who lived nearby. He looked at the example and signed the necessary in place of my wife. Never had a problem with them, they don't see the difference anyway.
Good day,
I am a Thai married in the Netherlands in community of property. when I was going to sell my apartment (which I had already bought and mortgaged more than 10 years before we got married), she still had to sign at the notary. the reason was that we are married in community of.
When purchasing the new home, she also had to sign again. This took place about 2,5 years after we got married. At the key transfer (in our case) it was even indicated that legally an interpreter had to be present. The rescue, so that she would also understand what she was signing for, even though we had long since signed the mortgage and deed of sale without an interpreter.
When my house was sold in the Netherlands, my wife from Thailand had to sign it. Even though she had never seen that house.
So, I think your Thai wife should also send a signature, probably through a lawyer in Thailand.
Don't do as Dieter suggested, because that is fraud, even if “they don't see the difference anyway”.
Fraud, fraud! A signature is a signature. No one looking at it.
Honesty serves people and that little effort to do it all legally benefits everyone involved. Incitement is not the way to go and is yet another example of the moral decay that is visible and undermining everywhere. It certainly does not serve the interests of the Thai woman who should also be treated with respect and know where she stands. The intermediary, notary and mortgage provider still have to do research, they just have to adhere to the law and stand up for the rights of everyone. Martijn strikes me as an honest person who wants to do good. That's nice to read and in fact you know what is right and you are looking for legal answers and they will be there. Good luck with this challenge.
Depending on the mortgage provider, it may even be the case that the papers that need to be signed can be scanned and sent by email. We did this last year when my wife was in Thailand and I was in the Netherlands.
All papers in that period were always printed out in Thailand, signed, scanned and sent to me by email. I printed out those papers, did all the papers together with my signature and scanned them again and forwarded them by email. It takes a little more time. I had also discussed this with my intermediary. All authorities accepted this in our case.
Dear Martin,
if you are married in community of property in Thailand and register the marriage in the Netherlands, then you are here too. So your wife must also sign because she is automatically co-owner / debtor.
To avoid this, you can still have a prenuptial agreement drawn up at the civil-law notary in the presence of your wife, possibly with an interpreter if they notice that your wife has not mastered Dutch well enough.
Community of property in Thailand means from the moment of marriage. Everything that you demonstrably already own, remains separate from the spouses. So also a house that you already owned.
As Clide mentioned, the bit is that you didn't prenuptially marry, but even if you were, I doubt they're going to try to get your wife to sign it too.
Let yourself be well informed, I would even check with another mortgage provider whether what they tell you is correct.
From what you write it is not entirely clear to me whether you keep the same mortgage and increase it (if there is room), so the conditions etc remain the same.
Or you are going to transfer the old mortgage (pay it off and then take out a new one) Then you will have to deal with all the new legislation, etc.
Only correct advice, go to 2 specialists and get the right information, don't let the first advisor and bank overwhelm you because they only think about their own gain.
Wouldn't it be easier for the notary to send an e-mail to your wife's e-mail address in Thailand with an attached attachment showing the original purchase or sale deed.
Your wife prints this out, signs the printout, then puts it in the scanner and sends it back to the notary's e-mail address.
Have done a few times with a settlement of an inheritance and sale of a piece of land in the Netherlands.
Jan Beute.
That's how we did it last year. All the papers we had to sign during the period when she was in Thailand and I was here. Both the civil-law notary and the mortgage provider have not been difficult about this and have accepted this with us.
Dear Martin,
She will have to sign but can also refrain from it (up to you).
I am also married in community of property and the notary has an interpreter for my wife
an appendix linked to the mortgage (think of Mr Rutte).
She is registered in the Netherlands so…
More things to do is listed above!
Yours faithfully,
Erwin
You may not sell or mortgage the marital home without your spouse's permission.
This is laid down in the constitution (BW 1:88). This should prevent someone from losing the roof over their head without knowing that a mortgage has been taken out.
Giving your wife an extra holiday seems like a quick solution, she enjoys the trip, signs the necessary documents and you are extra together. .