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Reader question: Is my son now automatically a father with legal authority in Thailand and in the Netherlands?

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags: , , ,
April 8, 2021

Dear readers,

My son (NL) is married in Thailand to a Thai woman, the marriage is not (yet) registered in the Netherlands. They recently gave birth to twins. Born in a hospital in Bangkok. Unfortunately, my son couldn't be here because of the corona. His wife signed for the birth of the children at the hospital.

My question is: is my son now automatically a father with legal authority in Thailand and in the Netherlands? And can my granddaughters now get a Dutch passport? Or does his wife have to arrange recognition first?

Thanks for reading and I hope someone knows what's going on.

Regards,

Rant

Editors: Do you have a question for the readers of Thailandblog? Use it contact form..

Number of times read: 218

19 responses to “Reader question: Is my son now automatically a father with legal authority in Thailand and in the Netherlands?”

  1. Tino Kuis says up
    8 April 2021 at 10: 23

    The hospital does indeed issue a certificate of the birth of a child (children). Then the father or mother goes to the town hall (amphoe) to obtain an official birth certificate. The birth certificate (สูติบัตร soetibat in Thai) contains the child's name, the father's and the mother's name, date of birth, place of birth and a few other things. He/she will immediately receive a Thai identification number.

    Make sure that the name as father, with an ID e.g. passport, is spelled correctly on the birth certificate. I believe that a marriage between father and mother is not necessary. A DNA test may be requested.

    After translation and legalization of the birth certificate, it is easy to apply for Dutch nationality at the Dutch embassy.

    • Dennis says up
      8 April 2021 at 10: 50

      In my opinion, in addition to the birth certificate, the father must also acknowledge the children. This used to be possible at the embassy, ​​nowadays it has to be done at the local amphur. The deed obtained must then of course be translated (into English) and legalized by the Department of Foreign Affairs (the well-known building at Chaeng Wattena in Lak Si, Bangkok). After that, the NL embassy can take over the recognition and a passport can be applied for, thereby also acquiring Dutch citizenship.

      In my opinion, a DNA test is only necessary after the 7th year of life (of the baby).

      • Tino Kuis says up
        8 April 2021 at 12: 49

        In 1999 our son was born. The mother, my wife at the time, filed a report herself, I was not there. We were married in the Netherlands a few years before, and she showed us the translated and legalized marriage certificate. A few weeks later, our son's surname was changed from the mother's to the father's.

        It is stated here that the mother and father were married in Thailand. For the law or just traditional? In the first case, showing the marriage certificate will be enough. I think information is needed at the amphoe about the procedure because everywhere is a little different.

        • Dennis says up
          9 April 2021 at 11: 30

          What I am referring to is the application for Dutch citizenship (passport is proof of this).

          Jantine reports that the twins' father and mother are not married under Dutch law. The Dutch embassy (obviously) follows Dutch law and will then (be able to) ask itself what the application for the passport and therefore citizenship is based on. Since there is no official marriage, in my opinion the father will first have to acknowledge the child. Of course, the embassy will be able to give the exact answer. In any case, I had to have a deed of recognition drawn up. At the time, this was still possible at the embassy, ​​but not anymore (it has to be done at the Thai town hall (amphur).

      • thai thai says up
        8 April 2021 at 13: 33

        I didn't need any acknowledgment, just the birth certificate where of course I'm on it.

      • Ger Korat says up
        8 April 2021 at 14: 06

        As a father, not married, I do have experience with the official recognition of children. If married, the children automatically get the nationality of the father, it is important that the official marriage is also registered in the Netherlands, namely the date of marriage in Thailand so that the children born from this marriage are Dutch. How to register marriage I do not know in details. Recognition only applies if the parents are not married and that is a cumbersome route through a lawyer, the Thai court, children's court and guardianship organization and then finally through the court to a statement from the amphur with which you can apply for a Dutch passport. can apply for Dutch nationality.

    • Peter says up
      8 April 2021 at 14: 34

      If there is a marriage, the children are Dutch and Thai at birth. A Dutch passport can be obtained without any problems. In my opinion, when applying for a passport for a child aged 6 and over, a DNA test is required.

      • Right says up
        8 April 2021 at 15: 46

        And DNA test is not necessary for a child born standing marriage.

        A DNA test is only required if a child aged 7 years or more has been recognized if that child is to immediately become a Dutch national through this recognition. A DNA test is not necessary for recognized younger children, nor has an older child been cared for and raised in the family of the recognized person for a number of years (from memory: 3).

    • Co says up
      8 April 2021 at 16: 20

      Tino, if you are married in Thailand then you are automatically the father of the child, but if you are not married then you must recognize the child and that will cost plus minus 25.000 baht through the court.

      • Right says up
        8 April 2021 at 17: 40

        A Dutch citizen can recognize a child with any civil registrar in the Netherlands. Courts are not involved.

        Proceedings to establish paternity can be submitted to the court. This is only necessary if the father refuses acknowledgment. A Thai mother or she, as the legal representative of her child, can arrange this (with the help of an assigned lawyer) through the Dutch court. Such a determination generally results in NL nationality for the minor child. The father may also be asked to pay a maintenance contribution.

        The father of a recognized child does not automatically have parental authority. That must be arranged separately. The procedure for applying for joint custody is explained here: https://www.rechtspraak.nl/Onderwerpen/gezag/Paginas/Gezamenlijk-gezag-formulier.aspx

        • Willem says up
          10 April 2021 at 00: 29

          This is incorrect: recognition of a child in the Netherlands is only possible at the municipality where the child is registered AND only with written permission from the mother. Without that explicit permission you can forget about acknowledgment

          • Right says up
            10 April 2021 at 20: 52

            Perhaps it is better to only respond here with sufficient knowledge.

            It is true that the mother's consent is required.
            Recognition is possible at any municipality, even if the child is still abroad.
            See: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/erkenning-kind/vraag-en-antwoord/kind-erkennen-waneer-waar#:~:text=U%20kunt%20in%20elke%20gemeente,op%20dat%20moment%20zwanger%20is. Anyone can look that up for themselves.

  2. Willem says up
    8 April 2021 at 14: 28

    In addition to the above. Recognition must indeed (as already stated) be arranged separately for Dutch law. And since the marriage had not yet been arranged in Neferland before the birth, it is also necessary to arrange parental authority after all. Those are 2 different things that are separate from each other. And it is undoubtedly known that the children (afterwards) can indeed acquire Dutch nationality. But the woman will (despite the fact that they are married and have a child) simply have to integrate (otherwise no long-term residence in the Netherlands is possible)

    • Right says up
      8 April 2021 at 16: 09

      Sorry, but Willem is confusing things here.
      A marriage concluded in Thailand is, in principle, recognized in the Netherlands.

      Acknowledging children born during this marriage (or within 306 days after a possible dissolution) is not necessary. Both parents have legal custody. Nothing else is needed for that.

      The twins also receive the NL nationality by operation of law via the NL father. He can give written permission if the mother applies for an NL passport for the children.

      As the caretaker parent of her NL children, the woman has a right of residence in the Netherlands by operation of law. She does not have to integrate and is entitled to a free so-called facilitating visa that she can apply for directly at the NL embassy and does not have to use VFS Global.

      • Ger Korat says up
        8 April 2021 at 22: 48

        Yes, that facilitating visa is nice, the children must first be brought to the Netherlands by the father, because as long as the children are not in the Netherlands, the mother will not receive a visa. Only when the children are in the Netherlands can you proceed to apply for a facilitating visa, I think. As a Thai mother, you really cannot go to the Netherlands with the children, because the children are not yet registered and do not officially live there.

        • Right says up
          10 April 2021 at 20: 39

          Then you have been incorrectly informed or may have already been helped incorrectly.
          I think something can be arranged here for the mother without father and children to make such an extra trip. If you want my help, look up https://www.prawo.nl and send me an e-mail (the contact form unfortunately does not work).

      • Willem says up
        10 April 2021 at 01: 07

        Dear Prawo, that's right – but I read that the marriage has been concluded in Thailand but has not yet been legalized. In that case, according to Dutch law, there is still no question of a marriage. Of course that can be acknowledged – only after acknowledgment does what you say here apply. What I am not sure is whether the children must first come to the Netherlands and be registered here before the mother can come to the Netherlands with a facilitating visa. Do you know?

        • Right says up
          10 April 2021 at 20: 46

          Also according to the Dutch IPR, International Private Law (the NL law as you say) that Thai marriage is in principle legally valid so that what I wrote directly applies. The mother must of course arrange legalization (in Thailand) and then a translation of her marriage certificate.
          The mother can simply accompany the children on their first trip to NL, they do not have to be registered there.

  3. Right says up
    8 April 2021 at 15: 56

    If your son still lives in the Netherlands, he is obliged to have his Thai marriage entered in the basic administration of his municipality. A legalized marriage certificate is required for this. With the legalized birth certificate of his children, he can also ask that municipality to supplement his personal data with data from the children.

    Separately from this (not compulsory but strongly recommended, at least with regard to both birth certificates), he can then have these three certificates converted into Dutch certificates by the Landelijke Taken department of the municipality of The Hague. This is free and will make issuing NL passports easier for the children.
    See: https://www.denhaag.nl/nl/akten-en-verklaringen/akten/buitenlandse-akte-in-een-nederlandse-akte-omzetten.htm


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