Reader question: Borrow money in Thailand if you are married
Dear readers,
Just a brief sketch. Am Belgian, married to a Thai woman in Thailand and marriage registered in Belgium. I myself am retired, currently still living in Belgium while my wife is staying in Thailand in our beautiful house (I know, land, house, property………. you can as a foreigner ……. blah blah blah, that's not the point, so no comment on that).
The point is this: my wife has the opportunity to buy land next to ours, something she would like to do. My wife has inquired at the bank and it appears that, because she is married to a foreigner (me), I also have to sign the loan contract. My wife also has no income.
So on March 3, 2020 I am going back to Thailand and I have to bring the following papers with me: the beautifully decorated Thai marriage certificate, a certificate from the pension service confirming the monthly pension payment with the relevant amount, plus proof of residence from the municipality where I now stay. The bank does not need more than that, according to the information provided to it.
Now I am still in Belgium and from March 3 to March 30 in Thailand. Then back in Belgium I will take steps to emigrate to Thailand by August, September 2020. Do not own any property in Belgium. Is this a normal course of action?
Can the Thai bank transfer to my Belgian bank account (because my pension is first paid into my Belgian bank account), you never know… the marriage boat will get stuck?
Please any info.
Regards,
Dre
The Thai bank will not be able to take your money out of Belgium, but I think the debtors' prison still exists in Thailand.
You are safe in Belgium, as is your money, but in Thailand you could get into trouble.
But why can't you, or rather your wife, give the house as collateral?
If the piece of land your wife wants to buy is not much larger than the piece of land, the house should still be worth more than the adjacent piece of land.
That's a very good option!
“Buurman's good can only be bought once”
Is a well-known proverb.
Collateral on your house is a security for the Bank and if things go wrong, you will only lose your house and any repayment/mortgage interest.
Before someone can give a serious answer to that, you must first know what that signature of yours means.
It can be about different things; For example, only to note that your wife acts as a borrower up to and including that you are solely responsible for repaying the loan and everything in between.
Consequently, to be sure, you must request a draft deed of the loan contract, have it translated (preferably) in Flanders and then have it checked again (preferably) by a notary.
I thought it is formally the case that if a Thai marries a foreigner she / he basically loses all her rights to property such as land and house. Community of goods is not recognised, I thought. She can keep it if the foreign partner signs a statement that he will not claim her property. The same is true with purchase. The foreigner signs for not claiming the land, not because he agrees with the Thai's move. She can't buy without that statement.
wiebren, is really different. Read it on thailandblog May 18, 2016 there this is extensively discussed. There is no question of losing Thai(se) property upon marriage.
In the prehistoric times of Thailand - say 50 years ago and maybe even shorter - the woman was not allowed to own land if she married a foreigner.
That was in the time when women were still subservient to men in Thailand.
They wanted to prevent the foreign man from gaining control of the ground.
There was no problem with land ownership for a Thai man and a foreign woman.
Times have changed.
It is also not so long ago in the Netherlands that the man was the boss in the house.
If you have put your signature as a husband, in an emergency the Thai bank will chase you if your wife cannot pay. After all, they don't ask you for a signature for nothing.
So a one-way trip back to Belgium if you no longer want to pay after a divorce… But even then I would not dare to rule out the possibility that the Thai bank will seize your Belgian assets via a Belgian court. Consult a good lawyer.
Giving collateral is, in my opinion, absolutely necessary. But most of these banks will not even give a loan to a "mia farang", which is your wife. I would like to know which bank does take out a loan to a Thai woman who is married to a farang?
Another point is that in my opinion the land cannot be purchased in your wife's name, also because of “mia farang”….
My mia bought a piece of land in Thailand without me knowing. The Kasikorn Bank has the loan
given as collateral our 6 year old car and a signature from her mother. It borrowed
amount is 600.000 Bath and must be paid back in 4 years. However, if it goes wrong I will still
also have to pay off because I married her. I myself have not put my signature on anything
Kind regards, Serge
Dear Serge,
This is also one of the reasons why I got married under Dutch law.
We have not registered our marriage in Thailand.
Yours faithfully,
Erwin
Dear Dre,
A Thai Bank cannot just touch your bank account balances in Belgium.
So you don't really have to worry about that.
Personally, I wouldn't worry and just sign on that Thai bank document.
If it concerns a large, fairly large amount that would be borrowed, you can of course still build in numerous "personal insurance policies".
A bit long-winded to explain that here, but if you wish, let me hear / read it. I am now in Belgium until the end of Feb (babysitter because my wife is visiting family in Thailand)
At the beginning of March you can find me in Thailand and (almost) always via the internet.
greetings
If your pension is more than enough to pay the interest and repayment, it seems to me a great idea to provide the current house and land as mortgage collateral. Then you don't put yourself in debt and everything remains clear. Don't forget that living in Thailand is not exactly cheap. Especially since your wife has no income.
When I married my wife I was sure that after a long search I
found the real one. We have now been happily married for 10 years.
many thai wives(female) are permanently looking for more possessions. Not surprising because if things go wrong in the marriage, they have something to fall back on. If the house, which is owned by your wife, has sufficient land to live in a decent way, then there is no actual reason to buy land, whether or not adjacent. I think it is wise to just live with your wife for a longer period of time. Then you just get to know each other considerably better . Maybe then you will have a firmer basis for making these kinds of decisions.
By the way, if you have to take different papers to the bank and sign all kinds of pieces, you really are at the mercy of the gods. Don't think that they just want to see! You're going to sign things. You just don't know what you're signing! You will probably also become liable in one way or another for the correct payment of the debts.!
Dear readers,
Thanks to everyone and also the editors for the necessary information about my question. Thanks again.
Just to add a few more points to my question:
Know my wife since 2008 and married her in 2011.
The land next to us, with a small house on it, belonged to her parents. Her parents and her only brother lived in that house. It is because of gambling addiction and the like of that particular brother that they had to sell their house and associated land. ( in 2018) and then moved in with grandfather.)
Now it is the intention that we buy back that property and that the parents-in-law can go back to live in their house. It goes without saying that, after the purchase, the property can NOT be used as collateral for any loans from the brother. You understand.
Jan S, you hit the nail on the head.
guy; on 03/03 i leave for thailand for one month,
maybe we can contact you by email. I'm still in Belgium right now. (Ninove)
If the editors allow. my email address is ; [email protected]
As far as payment and collateral, etc., I'm not really worried, since I know it's part of my income. However, the question was WHAT IF???
best regards and thanks again,
Dre
IF things go wrong the purchase was made during the marriage so you are entitled to half of the property.
For (the rest of) the amount you can enter into a private interest-free loan agreement with your wife with a clause that repayment takes effect in the event of changes in marital status and other conditions if you want to incorporate them.
Please register the agreement…
They couldn't make it any easier
With a loan in Thailand you need a "guarantor", in this case that is you.
If the borrower is unable or unable to pay more, the “guarantor” is liable and will have to pay.
About land and other agreements and legal consequences, a link:
https://www.samuiforsale.com/family-law/protection-and-ownership-thai-spouse.html