Reader question: Experience with applying for a BSN for a Thai wife and 2 children?
Dear readers,
Does anyone have experience applying for a BSN (Citizen Service Number) for my Thai wife and my 2 children aged 11 and 8 (both born outside the Netherlands)?
I have been in touch with my company pension fund for a very different question; and to my surprise I was also told between nose and lips that my spouse was registered with the RNI (registration of non-residents) but that she does not have a BSN, so if I die now she will not receive a partner's pension or a widow's pension because of the lack of a number. It's too crazy for words, isn't it, just perish on your widow and 2 kids, you don't have a BSN so no payment! Sounds a bit like the child benefit affair that has been so widely publicized.
I really wasn't aware of this; I even registered my spouse with this company pension fund at the time and even transferred my pension to her pension and then years later like a bolt from the blue this is crazy for words.
I wonder if I'll get a response to this, because I'm sure I won't be the only one.
Groet
Wim
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Dear Wim, strange question. Were you able to take steps earlier? But where do you actually live? If you live in the Netherlands, your wife will receive a BSN number after registration in the BRP.
If your wife is registered as a non-resident, she will receive a BSN number as well. Just search on Google and you will have all the information: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/privacy-en-persoonsgegevens/vraag-en-antwoord/hoe-kom-ik-aan-een-burgerservicenummer-bsn
However, I think you live in Thailand and you now want a BSN number for your wife because of partial pension. Then you can apply for a BSN number via an Rni counter, sometimes via the SVB, sometimes at the Tax and Customs Administration.
Anyway, none of these matters because you have been told that your spouse is registered with the RNI. Please get in touch with it: https://www.rvig.nl/brp/rni
It seems to me that the allowance affair has little to do with your observation that you do not know that your wife does not have a Bsn. I think that is more up to you because you are supposed to be sufficiently articulate, especially if you prepared yourself thoroughly when you decided to immigrate to Thailand. Nevertheless, success!
Jannus, thank you for all the tips and links.. that helps!
Just want to clarify some of your comments:
– Of course I already googled..several times..I just didn't find what I thought I needed.
– My Thai wife was registered in the RNI at the beginning of 2007 through the “National Tasks” office – BSN was only introduced in November 2007 as the successor to SOFI... so we were just too early, otherwise she would have already had the BSN.
– I had already reviewed the option to travel to NL and then register there (and then you automatically receive a BSN).. but I found it a bit expensive.
– Like everything has a reason… I had telephone contact with the foreign tax telephone (Heerlen) and was answered by a grumpy official who had no intention of helping me on my way.
regards,
Wim.
Dear Wim, maybe you are being too complicated. This is because the SOFI number has been seamlessly transferred to the BSN number. The number of the BSN are exactly the same digits as those of the SOFI number. Your wife was given a social security number when she registered with the RNI. Use it as BSN. If you have lost your Social Security number, you can request it from an RNI counter. Maybe treat the official a little kindly. After all, you are asking a service from him that has helped you. Explains his grumpiness.
Just last week I had contact with the inspectorate via Twitter about this if I die in the future. I live/am registered in NL while my wife (not legally married) is Thai and lives/works in BKK. If I die and I leave her share of inheritance, the Thai partner is liable for inheritance tax. To file this declaration, she must also have a BSN number. This can be requested by her or me. There is no validity period!!!!! That is why I can already prepare it for her because it is almost impossible for a foreigner, who is not used to our complex tax culture, without help.
Haki, you say that your spouse does not have to pay tax on the inheritance when you die. I think that's right. But it doesn't seem right to me that she needs to have a BSN number to file a tax return. If a random African inherits from you, he or she must also pay inheritance tax. I think it is unlikely that he needs a BSN number for that! Please leave this to the experts, but this is something that even a layman can think of. (I think !)
You do not need a BSN number to obtain an inheritance. That wouldn't be good. I assume you have a will. In the event of your death, the notary will arrange everything else. And indeed she may have to pay tax on the inheritance. That will simply be settled immediately against the inheritance. But you really don't need a BSN number for that.
Too bad, I have already been in contact with the notary's office that made my will at the time.. You have to arrange it yourself, sir, because if someone dies, we as executors have to check whether someone is entitled to surviving relatives payments...if there are no BSN numbers, the notary also runs fixed..in short in plain Dutch…then you have to arrange it yourself, we don't concern ourselves with it..if you come for a will of a few hundred euros, everything is possible, but if help is needed years later, the cooperation stops.
One more thing: Look up https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/erfbelasting/content/burgerservicenummer-aanvragen-voor-erfgenaam-in-het-buitenland
Can I request a citizen service number for someone else who does not live in the Netherlands?
Yes, but that person must declare in writing that he or she authorizes you to apply for a citizen service number for him or her. This authorization statement must bear a date and his signature. In addition, we ask for a copy of his ID or passport. You send this information with your letter.
This is confusing: It means that you can apply for it for another person with Dutch nationality. Not for someone with a foreign nationality.
The pension rights will certainly not expire if there is no BSN number. Then it's just a matter of applying. I just arranged that for a family member who doesn't live in Ned. It is necessary for the tax authorities. In addition, the pensioner can then also receive a refund of withheld tax. For example, with my family member, the tax was settled immediately with the 1st pension payment after applying for the BSN number
Dear Wim,
If you die and this is reported to your pension fund, your wife will automatically receive a tax number. At least that's how it went with an acquaintance of mine.
hello Hendrik, thanks for your response.. all info is welcome. I read from various people that it is actually a piece of cake to obtain this, but I found out just NOT. Everywhere I knock, the finger is pointed…not us…them!!!
The company pension fund sent an email…”just request it sir…that grumpy civil servant in Heerlen suggested writing to my civil-law notary who drew up my will…an immediate response…we don't…have to go through the embassy, or consult your marriage certificate with the pension fund !!… it will turn out that the application must be made through that grumpy civil servant in Heerlen…so stack of forms with documents…and I was immediately warned over the phone…remember, sir, everything must be in perfect order, otherwise the application will not be processed.. you will be labeled in advance as someone who wants to cheat. Maybe it will be easier for my wife because she is already registered with the RNI, but my 2 (minor) children will have to walk the “Heerlen” road.
Thanks again for your response Hendrik.. gives me some peace in this corona time.. always thought that everything was well organized, but not.. every time a surprise.
regards
Wim.
Widow's pension does not exist. Any partner's pension is only what has been built up over the years that you have been married. First check with your pension fund what your partner will receive in the event of your death before you go to great lengths for something that may later turn out to be nothing.
Wim, I have the impression that you quickly become negative when things go wrong. Then you will have a hard time in Thailand! Everything can be arranged neatly, but a little flexibility is badly needed. Have a look here and take advantage of it.
https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl and search for living-working, citizen service number and BSN applications, etc. Then a few options will appear. Take advantage of it!
my 2 Dutch children have been granted a BSN, of course I already had 1 but 2 things.
The applicant / star must have an economic connection with the Netherlands, for example as a widow with an Anw benefit, otherwise the tax authorities will NOT issue a BSN ...... so rejected
The kids neatly received their BSN number from the tax authorities.
This is important to me because of my wife and I's mutual decision to give the kids HER last name.
After registration in The Hague, with the necessary statements and numbers plus citizen service number, it is only a push of a button for the Dutch civil servant and all the necessary documents appear.
My marriage is also registered in The Hague.
But you get a Bsn for your wife (I was told) if your wife lives (and works) in the Netherlands or receives a Dutch benefit abroad
Dear Wim, I have continued to search to possibly help you.
If you die, the notary is the executor.
If there are heirs abroad, they do indeed need a BSN number. ( I previously said no but it turns out not to be correct. )
Please click on the link I have attached. This is information from a legal tax advisor.
What I can't figure out is whether you can already apply for the BSN for your partner.
You may be able to do it with an authorization from your partner.
Success with it.
https://www.plusonline.nl/erven-en-schenken/erfgenamen-in-het-buitenland-hoe-werkt-dat