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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Application for tax exemption on my company pension
Dear readers,
I will soon have to repeat my application for tax exemption on my company pension. Five years ago I was granted the exemption based on my marriage and yellow booklet with house details.
I live in Pattaya but am not yet officially registered with the tax office here.
Please advise which proof will be accepted by the tax authorities in 2021 to extend the exemption.
Regards,
Hans
Editors: Do you have a question for the readers of Thailandblog? Use it contact form..
Have you already looked at this list – a lot has already been written about this:
https://www.thailandblog.nl/?s=Belasting+pensioen&x=0&y=0
That could become problematic.
With my new exemption, I received an application form for the following exemption, with the remark:
1.that the above-mentioned taxpayer is resident for tax purposes in the meaning of the tax treaty in our country from the year …….
It therefore seems that the tax authorities want to check in the past whether you have rightly been granted an exemption.
Since you have not registered, it does not seem impossible to me that the tax authorities will levy retroactively.
Ruud je writes 'Since you have not registered, it does not seem impossible to me that the tax authorities will still levy retroactively.'
Why? After all, an exemption has rightly been granted because questioner Hans lives more than 182 days a year in Thailand and then his company pension is not taxable in the Netherlands. That sentence in English does not say anything new, by the way: Hans is resident for tax purposes within the meaning of the treaty.
And finally see the remarks of Wim Doeser and of Cornelis. This matter has been around here for years and the way in which you can achieve this is described in this blog.
They want to know when you registered with the Thai tax authorities.
They probably don't just ask that.
They may state that you are not a resident for tax purposes if you have never registered with the Thai tax authorities.
In itself that seems a reasonable statement, because you have nothing to do with the Thai tax authorities, so you cannot be a “resident for tax purposes”.
Ruud, search the internet for the PIT, Personal Income Tax, of Thailand and read article 1. It says exactly when someone is a resident for the Thai tax authorities. THAT is decisive!
By the way, the law states 180 days, the treaty 182. How Goort (see below) arrives at 162 days is a mystery to me.
Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.
Translation:
Taxpayers are classified into “residents” and “non-residents”. “Resident” means a person residing in Thailand for any period or periods totaling more than 180 days in any tax year (calendar year). A resident of Thailand is liable to tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources brought into Thailand. However, a non-resident is only liable to tax on income from sources in Thailand.
It does not seem important to me what Thailand means by a “resident for tax purposes”, but what the Netherlands means by that.
I can't find a single definition of that, which would mean it could mean anything.
Of course, the question remains why the Netherlands is so eager to know when you registered with the Thai tax authorities.
I assume they want to do something with that information.
Ruud, treaty and Thai law indicate (at 182 and 180 days respectively) that you are a resident. Articles 18 and 19 of the treaty determine where pensions are then taxed. What's not to understand about that?
Furthermore, the exemption applies to wage tax. File a report and any errors will be corrected. Which errors? If you cannot prove that you live in Thailand, for example, but in a country that has a different kind of treaty with NL. In that case, you will receive the wrongly granted exemption levied in the form of an income tax assessment.
Heerlen's requirement was suddenly changed in the autumn of 2016. Now you have to prove that you are filing a report in Thailand, even though the judge has ruled otherwise and Heerlen has blown the whistle. Wage tax exemptions already granted would not be reversed and in practice will not be reversed.
So what are you worried about?
I'm not worried, only when I received my exemption from Heerlen a few weeks ago (four envelopes with the same exemption), there was something new.
For the next exemption, I have to have a form filled out at the Thai tax authorities with the question on it, since when I pay tax in Thailand.
Suspicious as I am by nature, I think why do they suddenly want to know this, what do they want to do with this information?
That question didn't just pop up on the form.
I then tried to find out what the difference is between “resident” and “resident for tax purposes” and what difference that makes for the Dutch tax authorities.
I didn't come up with that, but I'm not a tax expert either.
I am aware that the definition is not the same for every country.
“Resident for tax purposes” says something about being subject to tax, but the conditions are not the same in every country, so neither is the definition of “resident for tax purposes”.
In the back of my mind I have the idea that if the tax is not paid in Thailand, which is evident from not being registered with the Thai tax authorities, the Netherlands might still be able to levy tax.
The treaty is, among other things, about double taxation.
If no tax is paid in Thailand, if the Netherlands were to levy, there would be no question of double taxation.
In other words, does the treaty apply when the tax owed in Thailand is not paid?
Ruud, what you just wrote: 'In the back of my mind I have the idea that if the tax is not paid in Thailand, which is evident from not being registered with the Thai tax authorities, the Netherlands might still be able to levy tax.' is exactly what CANNOT and should NOT be done.
The tax right does not return to NL if you do not file a tax return in TH; By the way, you write 'pay', but TH has high deductions, personal exemptions and a zero-% bracket, which means that many people never get around to paying. Payment is not a criterion for Heerlen, but filing a declaration is.
It will be different, as in the TH-Norway treaty, if that is explicitly stipulated in the treaty. This provision is absent in the TH-NL treaty.
I propose to close the discussion with this.
Don't think they're going to charge back. In the past, the exemption was easier, but nowadays you have to prove that you are liable for tax in Thailand. I am exempt until 2024, and I must apply for an extension at the end of 2024. So if I receive a paper from the Thai tax in 2024 that I am liable to pay taxes in Thailand in 2024, I will get another 5-year extension.
You must distinguish, exemption for withholding LH and Income tax. The exemption applies to the LH. Heerlen has been difficult for years and sets requirements that they are not allowed to impose. If they refuse, just file an income tax return and say you live in Thailand. You will still get everything back. You can email me if necessary.
Ruud, are you talking about the same thing as the questioner? I think the questioner is talking about an exemption by the Dutch tax authorities. And I suspect your response refers to the Thai tax authorities. I deduce that because you are talking about a form in the English language. The Dutch tax authorities will not use that language towards Dutch people. I'm going to assume that Cornelis is Dutch.
It is an appendix to my exemption from the Netherlands, which is written in English and must be completed by the Thai tax authorities.
Hence the use of English, in Thailand they cannot read Dutch, English sometimes they can.
hi, I live in Belgium, I am exempt from tax in the Netherlands on my pensions, but I have to pay cak on worldwide income. I now coincidentally received retroactive years. I have to pay 1000 euros because pension funds had not paid anything. And I receive a borderline pension from Belgium. .
so see if that is also exempt so I pay tax in Belgium and twice health insurance premium, once with CAK in the Netherlands and also with a health insurance fund here in Belgium. don't get away from it. hopefully you can take advantage of it mvg mart
Mart, your payment to the CAK concerns health care premium for your Belgian policy and has nothing to do with tax. This does not apply to living in Thailand because Thailand is not an EU, not an EEA, not a Switzerland and not a treaty country.
It's all about the fact that you can prove that you pay taxes in Thailand. For this you need an LF23 from in your case (because in Pattaya) the Chonburi tax office. They issue this statement, which is accepted by Heerlen if you:
– can prove, based on your entry and exit dates, that you have spent more than 162 days in Thailand
– you can provide an LF90 (filed tax form with the tax statement) from the past year.
If you can't do that, they won't issue that statement, and you won't get a tax exemption.
Could I assume that pension legislation in Europe is now the same everywhere?
For example, I receive company pension from Germany. This is taxed in Germany and there is no exception here. I have already asked various authorities, but there is a complicated formula as to why that is the case.
However, my state pension is not taxed in Germany because I live in Thailand. As far as I know, it is not asked if I pay tax in Thailand. My hometown is Thailand and that is enough.
Sjaak, that is not a question of legislation but of countries that conclude treaties. The Thailand-Germany treaty contains different provisions with regard to pensions than the Thailand-NL treaty.
I recently applied for and received an extension, but at that time I had already paid Thai Tax for 5 years (now 6 years). My extension was accepted with a residence declaration in the form of a “living declaration with address details” and a copy of my most recent Thai tax form. This while the NL Tax Authorities actually want a signed English-language form or alternatively an RO21 and RO22 statement from the Thai tax authorities. I applied for the exemption for 2 separate company pensions (Aegon and the PGB Pension Fund). After approval, the NL Tax Authorities informed both pension funds and also sent me the 2 exemptions with 2 new forms for 5 years from now!!!
Timker, this has been discussed here before. The NL service also accepts the papers in the English language from the Thai tax authorities, in particular the RO21 and 22.
Erik, that is exactly what I stated above, but in my case slightly different documents were also accepted !!!
Yes, Timker, the ways of government officials are sometimes inscrutable!
Submitted a new request for exemption in January 2021 because the current exemption expires at the end of June. Documents sent along were: covering letter, application for exemption, copy of passport, RO 22 dated January 12, 2021 proving that I am a tax resident of Thailand plus deregistration from Municipality at the end of 2006. RO 21 not sent because this form does not add anything to the requested evidence. Today I contacted the Tax and Customs Administration by telephone to ask about the status and was surprised to hear that the exemption has been rejected. Have been living in Thailand since 2007 and have applied for and been granted exemption several times. I was told on the phone that no proof of tax residency had been provided but R,O. 22 is just that proof. Anyone have any idea why the Tax and Customs Administration does not accept the proofs provided? Don't I just have to prove that I am a tax resident without sending a declaration form? For the sake of completeness I have been paying taxes in Thailand for years. Really don't understand the working method Belastingdienst Nederland anymore.
Strange, RNo, because that RO22 has been accepted by Heerlen for several years now instead of their note, which is not signed by the Thai service. The RO22 is proof of tax residence and it is actually accepted by default if you read the comments here and in a Dutch forum. Perhaps someone is sleeping there in Heerlen or someone wants to reinvent the wheel.
I think you shouldn't call anymore, but send a letter with a copy of that RO22 and claim that the RO22 has been accepted by others. Demand that the commies explain to you why this is different in your file.
The end of June is still far away so it can still all work out. Good luck!