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Home » Reader question » Reader question: How do we get a marriage certificate that is recognized in Thailand?
Reader question: How do we get a marriage certificate that is recognized in Thailand?
Dear readers,
After the helpful answers to our previous question, we dare to ask another question here (with the promise that we will not make a habit of it).
There is quite a bit of information to be found about the status of a registered partnership that has been converted into a marriage. The Deed of Conversion issued here in NL does not seem to be a valid marriage certificate in Thailand. The authorities we approach here are not clear on how to resolve this and we have also not been able to find an unequivocal answer online to the question of how to obtain a marriage certificate that is recognized in Thailand.
It almost seems that we should dissolve the partnership and then officially get married, but that is of course very cumbersome (and moreover, you are not official partners for a few weeks).
Has anyone encountered the same problem and managed to solve it?
Thanks and kind regards,
François and Mike
Dear people, TH does not recognize a cohabitation contract or a registered partnership in marriage or family law. A deed of conversion is therefore a matter for the Netherlands. In TH there is plenty of unmarried cohabitation, living together, starting families and taking care of each other. If one wants to show one another's love and other interests to each other and/or family and others, then one marries for Buddha. That just happens at home, not in a temple. If one also wants to legally frame the cohabitation, then one goes to the municipal office with a few witnesses and signs some marriage papers. Many stamps and signatures, but without any ceremony.
It makes no difference to Thai society or to Thai people if you go through life unmarried in TH. But you already knew that, I think. However, and I read that a bit from your question: is it necessary to be legally married in and for your situation for other reasons, or simply applicable, then in NL it will have to be legally married. TH is out there. Also outside cumbersome Dutch procedures. Hopefully my answer is helpful to you. Regards and success.
Thank you Soi. It is purely about formalizing the inheritance relationships and recording our relationship for the retirement visa. Indeed, we do not need a marriage certificate for our mutual relations :-). Getting married in Thailand is also an option that we are thinking about. However, it seems very strange to us that such detours would be necessary. But if there is no other way, then so be it.
In the Netherlands, the best way to record inheritance relationships is to make a will.
The same applies to the TH situation and it is therefore recommended to have a will drawn up in TH at a law firm with “notary authority”.
For the TH authority, such a document is the most clear in appropriate cases and in unexpected situations.
Of course you can also translate and legalize a Dutch will and deposit it at the office.
If the partner comes from TH, then a TH civil marriage can be considered, whether or not in due course.
If you are both of NL origin, you cannot get married in TH.
This is a known issue that I've run into as well.
A registered partnership is not a marriage in most countries (including the EU).
If you convert the registered partnership in the Netherlands, it is also NOT a marriage according to international law and is not recognized as such.
Ask for information at the civil status department of a larger municipality. Me and my now wife also wanted a registered partnership first. However, it only appears to be valid in those countries in the EU that recognize same-sex marriage. The same applies to a cohabitation contract.
Our registered partnership is not recognized in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc.
For a real relationship (sorry) you need a marriage certificate abroad and this is only made with a MARRIAGE and not with a partnership and any conversion.
So if I read correctly, according to rori, any marriage (gay or straight) is recognized for a retirement visa.
A retirement visa does not require recognition of a marriage, nor a sexual preference. Do meet the 'retirement' age limit: not younger than 50 years (to be demonstrated via a birth certificate), sufficient income, no criminal history or suffering from an infectious disease.
And birth certificate is not necessary; a passport is enough.
The Retirement Visa (which is not a visa but a 1-year extension of a Non-Immigrant Visa) does not require 'proof of good conduct', nor a 'medical certificate'. This extension can be applied for in Thailand at Immigration. See the 'Visa Thailand' file (on the left column of this page); it also states the income requirements (800.000 in Thai bank, or monthly income 65.000 Baht, or a combination of both).
Dear people,
Below is our experience about the so-called registered partnership of the Netherlands.
We are a pair with this partnership and here are our positive experiences in Thailand…
It obviously started with the visa application at the consulate or embassy.
We chose the consulate in Amsterdam and indeed they were satisfied with our registered partnership booklet and my partner who was 14 years younger also received a retirement visa
A few years later we decided to buy a condo in Jomtien and again the Thai authorities were satisfied with a copy of our partnership deed.
Later we had a will drawn up at a “Thai notary office” and again a copy of the partnership was sufficient for a legally valid will.
For opening a Thai account and obtaining a Thai driver's license .... no problems either and again our deed was sufficient.
I hope this helps you and good luck in Thailand
Joop and Nicole
Dear Joop and Nicolien,
Your response confuses a few things:
– A 'Retirement Visa' is not issued by the embassy/consulate, but a Non-Immigrant Visa 'O' of 3 months (single entry) or 1 year (multiple entry = leaving Thailand every 90 days) is. There are some conditions (eg sufficient resources).
– If you meet the requirements (see file 'Visa Thailand'), the single or multiple entry Non-Immigrant Visa in Thailand can be extended by 1 year at Immigration at the end of its validity period, based on age (50+ = 'Retirement Visa') or being married to a Thai, so not to a Dutch partner (= 'Thai Women Visa'). This can then be extended every year (same requirements) without leaving Thailand.
– For the 'Retirement Visa': The NL partner is also eligible under certain conditions for this extension on the basis of a marriage certificate legalized in the Netherlands = certified translated into English by the issuing municipality ('transcription for international use') and subsequently legalized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Thai Embassy in The Hague. A (converted) cohabitation contract is not sufficient, but the granting Chief Immigration Officer can be flexible if all other main requirements are met.
– If it is not possible to also obtain a 'Retirement Visa' for the partner, the partner can always obtain a 'regular' multiple entry Non-Immigrant Visa of 1 year from Immigration at the same time (= leaving the country every 90 days ).
– Although the basic rules are the same everywhere in Thailand, it is strongly recommended to go to a large Immigration office with these kind of fairly exceptional cases, eg in Bangkok, Pattaya, or Phuket. In 'the province', these kinds of things often cause major problems.
– Buying a condo, or a motorcycle, or a car, or getting a Thai driver's license, or opening a bank account, connecting utilities, etc., requires a Non-Immigrant Visa. (Opening a bank account: be careful, the rules are not the same at all banks.)
– In principle, only the passports (and 2 witnesses) are needed to make a Thai will. Incidentally, a Dutch will with provisions about assets in Thailand is also valid here, if certified & legalized, but it is much easier (and cheap) to make a separate Thai will with a Thai lawyer who is also a recognized 'notary public'. Beware, there is no central registry in Thailand; the surviving partner must present the will to the appropriate court.
Thank you all for the tips and answers. In the meantime, we have also tried to get more clarity from the Dutch government and embassy, but that mainly results in referrals to other authorities. There are experiences of people who make good progress with their cohabitation contract, but also of people where things are less smooth. As absurd as it sounds, dissolving the partnership and then getting married seems to be the only way to get a legalized marriage certificate. Other constructions sometimes work, but sometimes they don't. We don't feel like depending on the whims of officials in that regard. So that will be an unexpected wedding party.
Yes, first a divorce and then marriage. A cohabitation contract is legally valid in certain countries in Europe, but does not provide certainty and not at all abroad.
Where is the divorce and the wedding?
Dear François and Mieke,
For clarity:
Inheritance law matters in Thailand are best arranged in Thailand with a will (eg on the 'last living'). Go to a lawyer who is a 'certified notary public' (= recognized by the Ministry of Justice). This has a standard will that can be adapted to your wishes. A marriage is NOT necessary for this.
The main condition for a 'Retirement Visa' is having a Non-Immigrant Visa; the Retirement Visa' is an extension of 1 year at a time of the (old) Non-Immigrant Visa. This extension is always requested PER INDIVIDUAL. If you are both 50 years or older, you are both eligible. Please note the income requirements: the 800.000 Baht in the Thai bank, or an income of 65.000 Baht/month, or a combination of both in the amount of 800.000 Baht, applies PER APPLICANT (so also: a Thai bank account in both names is only 50% awarded to the applicant). The application process is simple; it is recommended to do this at a major immigration office (so not 'in the province'). The 'Retirement Visa' must be reapplied every year (same requirements).
Marriage is NOT at all a factor in a Retirement Visa unless one of the spouses is under 50. In that case, the Dutch marriage must be proven (= certified* & legalized* in the Netherlands) because then the younger partner is eligible for a Non-Immigrant Visa 'O' (1 year = leaving the country every 90 days). However, even then 'the marriage partner under 50' will be asked about the income, which is basically the same in Thailand as for the 'Retirement Visa'. This annual process naturally ends when the younger partner is 50.
*Certification = request a 'marriage certificate for international use' at the town hall = recognized & authorized translation by the municipality.
*Legalization = the marriage certificate must be recognized for use in Thailand by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in The Hague (legalization department) AND by the Thai Embassy in The Hague. This extra step is necessary because Thailand has not signed the so-called Apostille Convention.
Thank you for the clear addition.