Reader question: How long can I stay in Thailand?

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Posted in Reader question
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June 5, 2014

Dear readers,

With WAO 80-100% and an age of 40-50 years, how long can you stay in Thailand? My earnings are well above 65000 baht and I am married to a Thai woman. I was told 8 months, is this correct to get in the Netherlands without any problems?

Since she wants to work for a few more years and I can sit better in Thailand due to illness and weather conditions, we have decided that I will stay here for 6 to 8 months. The family also owns a house here that can be used. Am Dutch.

Hope to hear good information.

Yours faithfully,

Hendrik

33 Responses to “Reader question: How long can I stay in Thailand?”

  1. Peter says up

    Hallo,
    I am 100% on disability benefits, I have been living here in Thailand for 8 years, I have no problem. Don't need a reappraisal either.
    Peter

  2. Peter says up

    Hallo,
    Who's stopping you from staying here then?
    your benefits agency?
    the tax office?
    I don't fully understand your problem, or not at all
    Ask the UWV or something, then you know for sure

    Peter

  3. Albert van Thorn says up

    You must discuss this with your benefits agency.
    These apply regulations that apply to you... furthermore, it has nothing to do with whether or not you can move into a home here in Thailand.
    Here you will probably get a lot of answers to your question that could possibly make it confusing.

  4. self says up

    TH and NL are treaty countries with regard to a number of benefits, including the WAO. In other words, TH will take over control from NL, and NL people with a disability benefit will be allowed to live in TH.
    Read UWV. See following link: http://www.uwv.nl/Particulieren/internationaal/uitkering_naar_buitenland/met_arbeidsongeschiktheidsuitkering_buitenland/index.aspx
    You can thus live in TH for 6 to 8 months, with your Thai wife in your home with her family. In due course you can deregister yourself completely from NL, and settle permanently with your wife in TH. But that is not the case at the moment, as you write. In any case: make contact with the UWV before you leave. The SSO in TH does the honors: http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/home_eng.jsp?lang=en

  5. Erik says up

    Your question is how long you can stay here and still live in NL.

    Take a look in the files and in particular at 'residential address TH-NL. But beware, the legislation mentioned there has lapsed and has been replaced by other legislation. I advise you to consult your municipality of residence.

    Emigration is not yet an issue, write yourself. But let me give you this in case it comes up:

    – loss of state pension accrual
    – loss of your health insurance policy

  6. Bz says up

    Hello Hendrik,

    The answer to your simple question is actually quite simple. According to current regulations, you must stay in the Netherlands for at least 4 months a year to retain all your rights as a Dutch citizen. If you do not meet this condition and do not report it, you will become part of the official Spookburgers group and all your rights will lapse.

    Best regards. Bz

    • MACB says up

      With all due respect: No, that's not the right answer!

      Only the benefits agency decides whether or not to allow a 'long-term stay abroad', in consultation with the (examination) doctor! Only THEN do the general provisions regarding maximum stay in Thailand apply in order to continue to fall under health insurance (etc.) in NL.

      So consult the benefits agency and also the SVB BEFORE you do so, and make sure you get permission in writing. In any case, you will remain liable to tax in the Netherlands for the WAO (and later also for the AOW).

      I don't know the details of the regulations, so I don't know whether you can deregister in NL in due course. This is in any case possible on your 65th birthday, but it does mean that you will not be covered by the NL health insurance (etc.). Then you should take out a so-called foreign policy with a Dutch health insurer (currently approx. 300-350 euros per month, depending on age). This is certainly recommended for you; after all, all other insurance policies exclude pre-existing or historical health issues.

    • Bart says up

      What rights are you talking about if I may ask?

      • MACB says up

        Dear Bart,

        I don't know what 'rights' you are talking about. I don't mention that word. If you deregister in the Netherlands, or if you stay in Thailand for a shorter period of time than permitted by the health insurer, or if you stay abroad for longer than permitted under municipal regulations (derived by the Ministry of the Interior), you will lose the right to Dutch health insurance, or legally stipulated that you are 'deregistered' = the same result.

        Hence the advice to in any case consult the benefits agency BEFORE, and it is also advisable to orient yourself elsewhere about the maximum period of stay in Thailand in order to still be covered by health insurance and/or not to be deregistered by the municipality!

  7. January says up

    yes, the uwv allows you to stay there for a maximum of 4 weeks unsolicited, or you must request it from the uwv, whether you can stay longer, and if that is allowed, in my opinion, thailand allows you to stay for a maximum of 90 days, with a visa or you have to start a business you have to be 50 years old for a one year visa and some other conditions

  8. Hank b says up

    I would be careful about living with family, the rules are the same as in Holland, you live with others, can that influence (discount) your benefits, if there are working people among them, I would first Let me get good information from the UWV.
    And don't be surprised if you get a check on yourself from Holland at a given address, it also happened to me three years ago, no fewer than 22 people from the UWV came in pairs of two to various places in Thailand to check the accuracy of the information given. , a few were then confronted with the consequences, with the necessary consequences of refunds and fines. They accused that it was a disguised holiday for UWV employees, and I was not thanked for that.

  9. Peter says up

    Just a quick comment on Jan. Last year this rule still applied that you could stay there for 3 months, which has been reduced to 1 weeks with effect from 2014 January 6 (UWV requirement)
    A 90-day visa then no longer makes sense, and the Thai government gives visa travelers to Laos or Burma only 1 x right to a visa.
    I'm talking about vacation.

    Henry,
    I too am 80-100% rejected and also play with that thought.
    I have called and emailed BUPA and AA insurance, health insurance there will cost you around € 300 and does not apply to old cases, you will have to bring a bag of money because we are not covered by Thai insurance.
    There is no problem with regard to your AOW, you can voluntarily close the AOW gap at the SVB against payment.
    Every year that you are not in the Netherlands, 2% is deducted from your AOW. I would recommend that if you make the switch.

  10. tons of thunder says up

    That's not so easy.
    Officially, of course, both the Dutch state, the benefits agency and the Thai immigration service set their requirements.
    The least common multiple (if you remember that from school) is what “everyone” allows.
    Another matter is whether you want to take the risk of going "not quite according to the rules". In that case you run the risk of losing your benefit in the Netherlands or having it cut, or being deported from the country in Thailand.
    The rules:
    WAO: I think if you want to take a holiday abroad for longer than three weeks, you should first ask or report this to the GAK.
    If you would like to emigrate officially, this must also be reported to the GAK and an official re-examination will then take place “to see whether you fall into the same disability category for the country where you are going to live than you are now (80-100 %) with any adjustment of the benefit amount. It sounds strange, but that's how it is. (I don't know how seriously people take this nowadays, but there are also calls to adjust benefits to the standard of living of the country where the benefit recipient lives, so first carefully inquire in a roundabout way.)
    If there is permission to emigrate, emigrating to a social treaty country is better than to a non-social treaty country. In that case, the benefit will not be reduced for non-medical reasons.
    Thailand is a social treaty country and indeed control over the disability benefits will then be transferred to the Thai SSO (the question is what they will end up with, there were many initial difficulties and much has been reversed from the control exercised by the SSO on AOW benefits and that was only an administrative check whether one was employed, with disability there is also a medical aspect, the Thai have never heard of that, getting money because you can't work).
    Visa for Thailand
    To obtain a non-immigration retirement visa, the age requirement is greater than or equal to 50 years. (and the mentioned income requirement) However, a visa based on marriage to a Thai woman is possible, I think there is no income requirement there.
    Dutch civil status:
    I don't know how long you can be abroad without losing your "address". Civil status questions.
    Conclusion:
    I think the possible problem lies with the GAK and their medical service. Ask what is possible there first. Be prepared that a doctor's statement is likely to be requested if you argue that the Thai climate would be better for your illness.
    Note:
    1. If you want to avoid a re-examination and/or want to keep your hands free to possibly "go" longer than is actually allowed, it seems better to request that information anonymously (e.g. via a social lawyer)
    2. When presenting to authorities, you usually get a more willing ear if you present it as a one-off.
    3. In the case of permanent immigration, the aforementioned points are indeed loss of old age pension (but can be compensated by voluntary old age pension) and loss of health care act. (Very important, as a WAO person it is probably less easy to take out a new affordable health insurance policy without exclusions) WAO is very stigmatized, I was once refused a very small mortgage a long time ago with the argument: “Sir, you have WAO and then you have a higher suicide risk”
    A positive note is that with an income as you indicate with emigration, a tax and levy benefit also arises.

  11. Ari & Mary says up

    I would like to piggyback on this reader question. We, two people 60+ would like to live in Thailand for several years. No problem in terms of UWV and pension. However, how should we arrange the visa and then such a visa that we do not have to leave the country regularly, but can suffice to get a stamp at the immigration service every 3 months.
    Going to Thailand in October this year for half a year with an O visa.

    • Bz says up

      In Thailand you can obtain a so-called Retirement Visa. Conditions include income > 60.000 baht per month or > 800.000 baht on a Thai bank account. With this visa you only need to report to the Immigration Office every 3 months. You can have the O visa converted into a Retirement visa in Thailand. This is only possible in Thailand, not in the Netherlands. Cost is 1900 baht.

      Best regards. Bz

      • tons of thunder says up

        @BZ
        The questioner is not yet 50 years old and is therefore not eligible for a Thai non-immigration retirement Visa. That is one of the other conditions that fall under your “oa”.
        However, the questioner is married to a Thai lady and for these reasons (regardless of his age) can very easily obtain an annual visa that can be extended at any time. The first time it is a somewhat complicated paperwork, with proof of marriage, proof of income, everything authorized translated into Thai, and sometimes photo evidence of the joint residence, etc., but after that it is plain sailing.

        • Hank b says up

          Dear Ton, do not know where you got the information from, you often respond, but incorrectly,
          I have had a Thai Wife visa for 4 years now. but show the whole santenkraam every year.
          Proof of income (at least 400.000 baht per year) / marriage papers / home address with blue booklet / photos of in and around the house, preferably with children, the same hassle every year, even though everything is known to the immigration service, then receive a visa for one month for a fee of 1900 baht, which must be approved by higher authorities, and then report again, and then receive the relevant visa for the remaining eleven months, just collected this week for the remaining 11 months, and then over Report again within 90 days, in the presence of my wife (mandatory).

          • tons of thunder says up

            @ Hank b,

            I got this information from my own experience when, 12 years ago, I was married to a Thai woman and indeed had to make a lot of effort to get a Visa (on the basis of marriage) (we were married in the Netherlands so everything had to be translated). and provided with a ministerial stamp) complete with photos of (rented) home and income information. That was in Bangkok. No pain in the following years, only it had to be proven that the income still met the requirement. Just like with a Retirement Visa, which I have had for about 7 years now.
            That reporting obligation has never affected me because we travel together (and now I alone) a lot in the region and it was never necessary to report the 90 days with a multiple entry visa.
            As a spicy detail, I still remember that the lady from the immigration office “shocked” when she had converted my income into Thai Bht and said to me in horror: "Then you earn x times more than I do" and indeed my income was very large. above standard. I do not know whether there are differences in the treatment of incomes that only just or more than meet the standard, but that could be the case. I also spoke Thai then, which makes a lot of difference, I noticed at all Thai authorities.
            As mentioned, I have had a Retirement Visa for the last 7 years and there too only the income statement and the form for the annual renewal are required, no bank book, no photos, nothing.
            It may be that the regulations regarding Visa based on "marriage to a Thai" have changed. That could also be an explanation.
            If you could point out where I've brought up "inaccuracies" in my what you consider "frequent" contributions, I'd appreciate it.

        • Bz says up

          I responded to Arie @ Maria both 60+ etc.

          Best regards. Bz

      • Ari & Mary says up

        Thanks for your response. Does this income apply to us as a couple or does it have to be per person!

        • self says up

          Of course per person. No country has a 2-person visa.

          • Ari & Mary says up

            If you are officially married or cohabiting and one of the partners has no income, the monthly amount must be 1 per month. This is what it says on the website of the Dutch consulate.
            Will give them a call on Tuesday, because this is of course important to us. Just don't add up to double. And since our savings have gone into the stone, we should ask someone for 20000 p/p. to deposit into our account, for a while.
            Then we will apply for a visa with 3 entries.

            • self says up

              Dear Arie&Maria, when it comes to TH, don't look on the site of a NL consulate, but at least on the site of the TH consulate, or even better that of the TH embassy:
              http://www.royalthaiembassy.nl/site/pages/visaservices/doing_business-study-other.html
              Scroll to Long Stay, or look in the dossierVisa Thailand, top left. Good luck.

            • RonnyLatPhrao says up

              Dear Arie & Maria

              You write “Come together just short of double.”
              If they were to require this, you would only need to have the “just under” amount in a bank account and this as a supplement to your income. As long as the combined amount (income + bank account) is sufficient.

            • ton says up

              Be careful! That “just” must be three months. Only bank balance that has been on it for three months is accepted.

  12. harry says up

    Dear Hendrik.
    This is what I found on the internet last week.
    Living or staying abroad
    Do you want to know whether you can keep your benefits abroad? Then it is important whether you are going to live abroad or whether you are going to stay there alone. You are staying abroad and live in the Netherlands if you plan to go abroad for less than a year. Will you be away for more than a year? Then you live abroad.
    If you regularly go abroad If you spend a number of months each year in the Netherlands and abroad, it is sometimes difficult to determine whether you live abroad or are staying there alone. UWV assumes the following: • If you are abroad for less than four months a year, you are staying abroad and living in the Netherlands. • If you are abroad for four to eight months a year, you are a so-called commuter. You then decide for yourself which country is your country of residence and whether you live abroad or stay there alone. • If you are abroad for more than eight months a year, you live abroad.
    You are staying abroad When you stay abroad, you keep your benefit and Dutch social legislation applies to you. It doesn't matter which country you go to. You must always report a stay abroad to the UWV. We will then make agreements with you about, for example, medical checks and your reintegration process.
    Greetings Harry.

  13. peter says up

    If you are 80/100 rejected you can live here. Thailand is a treaty country and you can live in any treaty country while retaining benefits. Nowadays you no longer have to ask permission, you do have to report it. Your address must also be known to the UWV. The GAK has not existed for years.
    Indeed, you lose 2% per year in AOW accrual, you can voluntarily insure this with SVB, but the premium is very high. You are between 40 and 50 years old, too young for a retirement visa, but you are married to a Thai woman, so you can apply for a marriage visa. This is not easy, but achievable. The income requirement is 400.000 bht. p.year.
    Verification is done occasionally, there is nothing wrong with it at all, if you make sure that the data is correct, it is ok
    SSO has nothing to do with you who could only look at AOW.

    • Hank b says up

      Peter, it is not called a marriage visa, but a Thai Wife visa, which is also stamped and filled in in your passport, read previous response to Ton Donders' answer.

    • tons of thunder says up

      thanks Peter I had missed the name change from GAK to UWV. I disagree with you on SSO. The BEU law (limitation of exportability of benefits) states that an “unchanged” WAO benefit is only permitted if the benefit recipient lives in a country with which a social treaty has been concluded. The explanation states that this is because then all control activities can be carried out in that country. Who should do that other than the SSO, which also does the same for the AOW?

    • MACB says up

      That is unfortunately INCORRECT. Thailand is definitely NOT a so-called treaty country!

      • ton says up

        @MACB
        Sorry you are indeed right Thailand is not on the list of Social Convention countries.

        I was confused with the fact that: with regard to the AOW pension when living in Thailand one continues to receive any benefits. This right exists because a treaty has been concluded with agreements on monitoring entitlement to benefits. And that is something different from a social treaty. Most readers will have understood that from the context of BEU. This is about whether or not benefits are cut when exporting. The condition is that there is a treaty regarding the CONTROL of those benefits.
        A Social Treaty country is much more. This takes over the payment of social benefits for someone who would be entitled to them in the Netherlands.

        • ton says up

          And with Thailand there is such a treaty to control the right to social benefits.

      • Peter deV says up

        Dear Hank B.
        I don't know what you all do to get that visa, but I think you need to be a little more flexible. I've even got to the point where I don't have to report for a year.
        There is a man there who keeps his own administration and who sends me my renewal every three months. Of course you have to slide something under the table for this. but you are rid of the traveling and the jerking off


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