Dear readers,
The municipality (Amsterdam city district ZO) does not accept my partner's Thai birth certificate, issued by the municipality administration/Thai place of residence, translated by a sworn translator, certified by Thai foreign affairs and checked by the Dutch embassy. IND and NL embassy had no comments/problems with the document.
Municipality (Amsterdam city district ZO) if you do not come up with a better document within 6 months, you will be fined € 350.
We are unable to provide a different/better document. Our question to the desk employee is/was: what are the follow-up problems after paying the € 350. The employee did not know that. A conversation with her manager was declined and we were able to leave.
She would show the deed to a committee and they would pass judgment. A few days later we were called by the employee in question, who could come and collect the “wrong” deed and had to provide a “good” one. When we picked it up, “someone” handed us the deed and we could go.
Are there several Thailand travelers with this strange state of affairs and how solved?
Regards,
Red Rob
I had the same problem with the mean Weert (L) for about 4 years. An assistant officer found that my wife's birth certificate did not suit her. She did not understand that a Thai congregation can have a sub-church. I answered her that it doesn't matter what she understands or doesn't understand. What is to understand, what is on the official Thai document and in the translation. I told her that if she doesn't like it, she can submit a request to the Thai government to change it in such a way that it pleases her and the municipality of Weert. After 4 weeks I still hadn't heard anything from Weert. Then I sent her a registered letter with an essay containing her name and all data, which I would place in the Volkskrant, if she does not process my wife's birth certificate in the basic administration of the municipality of Weert within 1 week. I also threatened to send her a copy to her mayor. Three days later I received the message that everything had been processed in the meantime, incl. a copy of it. Besides, this time it was -for free-. Keep leg stiff!!
Rob,
We had the same problem in the past, the deed did not match the standard examples used by the municipality of Amsterdam Waterlooplein and we were advised to go to their well-known law firm nearby to sign this deed. The deed was then accepted.
It's been 25 years.
Just days before the administrative court, including the delay scheme (your own costs including recorded day(s) and travel expenses).
Works as a wake-up call for many civil servants, because then consult his/or her boss, who again etc... etc etc etc... until someone with a brain is reached.
If you have received an official rejection, I would appeal and you may be able to go to the Thai embassy/consulate for a supporting statement that you have provided the correct papers.
You can also report it to the National Ombudsman. In that case, specify everything in detail (scans?). If you have proof of the rejection of the municipality, you must add it. The National Ombudsman will only take action if there is certainty that your complaint is well-founded and you have already complained to a government agency.
Ask that official if they can tell you what a valid deed looks like according to them.
It is a bit difficult to talk if they only tell you that what you provide is incorrect.
Strange that a committee makes a judgment and you don't get it on paper. Send a registered letter and ask why you have not been heard by the committee, ask for the written opinion of the committee and what appeal options you have.
Record in the letter what the official has told you, ask which regulation the fine ad .. is based on and where you can read that regulation. Then it will come to an official with expertise and they will ask you to show the document again.
Will you keep us informed here?
Hi,
I would start by putting things in writing instead of visiting. dates, steps taken and reactions from the desk clerk(s). Second, make a complaint about the way you were treated. Third, inform the national ombudsman that apparently local interpretations of municipal officials determine whether or not an official document is acceptable. Fourthly, engage a legally trained person (lawyer or similar) to force the municipality to accept the statement. Of course, these steps may not all be necessary, but more like a blueprint of the possibilities. To start with step 1, it is also useful to inform the alderman in this area and to ask to discuss this with him or her. Always remain polite and try to explain to him or her with a smile why the official concerned has completely lost his way in this. Usually things are arranged when the alderman is on your side.
Good luck
You can also understand the civil servants, I know that is difficult. Civil servants are actually robots, when entering the office the brain goes to zero. A small note (not an email) to the Amsterdam ombudsman and the official gets a slap on the wrist and instructions on what she/he should do. Don't expect an apology either, hopefully they will do what is expected. Keep it up.
They can be very tricky. Went with my brother in law for passport and driving license renewal.
That went without any problems. I don't think I'll be extending my driver's license for a while.
Don't like the photos, the same photo is on my passport, nothing to do with it, I want a new photo.
The next day to another part of the city and the extension without any problems.
No wonder you sometimes don't understand and get angry.
You have to keep calm and stay polite but sometimes brrr. The same at Schiphol barking at you and in a language other than Dutch, if some wear a uniform, they become different.
– Fine on what grounds? The deed is not required for inclusion in the BRP. It is the best source document, but registration is also possible without a birth certificate, as the BRP law states that registration can also be done by the person himself or on his own initiative. See, among other things, the immigration file on the blog or google on BRP law.
– So I assume that she has been included in the BRP and will receive a BSN or will receive it soon (it sometimes takes a while for a large municipality). If not, then the church is in default. I don't know the term off the top of my head, can probably be found on foreignpartner.nl or through an aliens lawyer.
– What is wrong with the deed? Will she put the refusal in writing? This is to ensure, among other things, that you do not get stuck with an unskilled counter employee. A complaint to the municipality so that a more knowledgeable official can look into it. Would it be nice if you have the refusal (who, where, when, why) in writing.
Only a Thai authority can say whether the document is correct in terms of content:
– The IND has no interest in birth certificates for partner. He's not looking at it.
– The embassy legalizes coasters if necessary… The legalization concerns the stamp/signature of the Thai Min. or Foreign Affairs. You don't look at the content.
If you cannot come to an agreement with the municipality and you do not want to let it boil in their juices (you can submit the deed in the next century if you do not do anything for which the deed is legally required, such as applying for marriage or naturalisation), then see if Landelijke Taken (gem Den Haag) wants to convert the deed to a Dutch one. Then Amsterdam has nothing more to say. Instructions can be found on the Landelijke Taken website.