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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Immigration fine after not reporting return from abroad
Dear readers,
I have been staying in Thailand most of the time for about 20 years and own a condo in Chiangmai. But this morning at the Immigration Department in Chiangmai Promenade, for the first time when applying for my '90 days', I had to pay a 1600 Baht fine for not reporting my return to Chiangmai 24 hours after arrival at my condo building.
I had to go to the 3 rd floor of Promenade, where another department of the immigration service is located for so-called 'Up-dates'. And I was urged to report to the reception of my condo building every time I arrive in Chiangmai from abroad to avoid fines.
Do other people have the same experience?
Regards,
Niek
The form TM 30 is mandatory, we have already discussed this in this blog. Within 24 hours of arrival, the owner / main occupant must report you to Immigration and if there is no Immigration then to the police.
The mistake was primarily made by the owner / main occupant so go get that fine back there, I would say. But if you are the home owner, well….
As often happens, one Immigration is difficult about this and the other is not.
The advice is therefore that after returning from a holiday abroad and very formally also after a holiday elsewhere in Thailand you will report that again. Within 24 hours.
I don't get it, when you enter Thailand you have to hand in a form at the airport with the address where you are staying in Thailand on the back. So you've been reported!
Are not connected systems
legally correct
Upon arrival in Thailand, give the address to the immigration at the airport where I am staying
Never be bothered by having to fill out the form TM 30
Make a paper agreement with the owner in English yourself and give it to the immigration office. Have been doing this for years
I'm getting a bit lost (75 maybe the age).
Have been living in Chiang Mai for 20 years, officially married and have our own house together in the name of my Thai wife.
I am leaving for a month in September to visit my family in Belgium and I have an exit stamp in my passport there.
Do I also have to sign out before my departure and do I also have to hand in the TM 30 form at the immigration here in Chiang Mai within 24 hours of arrival?
Not you, but the legal owner of the house you live in.
You do not have to unsubscribe, but you must register within 24 hours. Tm30 officially by owner but if it doesn't work by you. The fine will be given to the person who is immediately graspable for them, so you!! Incidentally, if you do not have to visit the immigration country for something, for example a 90-day report or visa extension, it is quite possible that you will avoid the fine. People do not really actively check, but only when they come!
Condo owner is also obliged to report it.
But then you come across Thai laziness again and again.
It's not always laziness.
It is often just not practical that – for example, the owner of a rented house – has to file a declaration.
He is not always there, sometimes he even lives abroad.
Moreover, he or she will get a lot of trips to Thai immigration, with a travel-loving person.
The obligation should simply lie with the holidaymaker or immigrant.
That is the person who makes all those trips, not the landlord of a house.
Then, of course, there is the problem of the burden of proof.
Has the traveler told the landlord of his comings and goings?
It is difficult for the landlord to come and check every night whether the tenant is in his bed.
The responsibility should therefore lie with the tenant and that is also where the immigration service puts it.
With about 30 million visitors a year, it will be quite busy at immigration if, as you say, they all start reporting themselves. The TM 30 form clearly states that it is the job of the person providing shelter. It is an ordinary way to rake in money at immigration Chiangmai. The rules are creatively adapted there.
It should be clear that I was not talking about hotels.
Hotels are set up to inform immigration – via the computer – who is coming when and who is going when.
However, if you rent an apartment somewhere for a month, you cannot require the landlord to check daily whether you have spent the night somewhere else.
And if you spend 2 evenings elsewhere in a hotel without saying so, which does pass on that you were there, the landlord should pay for the fine.
The person traveling should also be the person responsible for handling immigration.
Are you also obliged to fill in a form TM 30 if you live in the apartment that you own through a company? Have a Retirement Visa.
You simply have to report if you come back from outside the province. This is entirely independent of ownership. Applies to every non Thai!
My Dutch wife had been in the Netherlands for 4 weeks.
She owns our house. We have lived there for 12 years.
Last month a call from someone who said he was from
the police were. On Sunday. “You have to go to the police box to get your
passport.” We didn't trust it and got it
phone call ignored.
Two weeks later 2 cops at the door with her name on them
mobile phone: "Is this you?" Yes indeed.
Photo of the passport taken and photo of my wife, while
she had to sit next to 1 of the agents.
"Thank you". No further explanation, no penalty and correct
treatment, but strange action suddenly.
Perhaps superfluously, but this happened on Koh Samui.
Ban Taling Ngam.
She has obtained a retirement visa and an exit visa before departure
immigration and faithfully goes to the 90-day notification.
The police on Samui are checking whether the person lives at the address given at immigration. I also received a call asking if they could come by to check, I don't know what's so crazy about that.
After a move I went to immigration within 24 hours with a TM 30 form. I got the form back, they did nothing with it. I also had a TM 28 form with me, which I had to bring back when I came to make my 90-day report. So this also not within the required 24 hours. Different rules everywhere.
I am aware that if foreigners stay overnight with you that you must report this via TM 30 as a condo owner. But this is the first time I've heard that you have to declare yourself as the main occupant of your own condo. After all, you fill in your home address on the arrival form and I always thought this was enough.
In my opinion, reporting to the condo management makes little sense because they do nothing with this (that is not their responsibility).
Am I missing something or is this Thailand at its narrowest.
When I arrive in Bangkok from abroad, this is not required and that would be because the immigration service of Chiangmai applies the rules more strictly.
I don't know a TM30 form, but that is probably the form I filled out at the 'up-date' department in Promenade in Chiangmai.
After payment, a form was stapled in my passport where my name was filled in behind the texts:
'Have received notifications of alien's address from' and………”Who notify the residence where aliens have stayed'.
It says "aliens," but it all happens on this planet.
The manager of the condo building, where I bought a condo a long time ago, advised me to report to the reception after arriving from abroad and they would pass on my arrival to the immigration service.
You do get annoyed with all that bureaucracy and control, which only increases.
When I return from the Netherlands, I always report to Immigration.
They always say you don't have to because your 90 days start when you report to the airport.
Still, I always err on the side of caution.
Gr, Hua.
Still crazy. Have been living in Chiangmai for 8 years and have left Thailand several times with exit/reentry. And also returned. Your 90-day report will run again from the return date. Never reported in Chiangmai when returning from abroad. Only when the 90-day period has expired (again: from the moment of return at BKK airport.
So don't understand what this is all about at all. Could be me of course!
It is always mandatory upon return to Thailand to have the TM 30 form completed by the home owner, hotel owner, condo owner within 24 hours of arrival at the immigration or police station, as I was recently told when I turned 90 days reported and I needed a re-entry permit.
Always report when you leave the country, at the cost of a fine
Josi
It is not clear to me either, I have a retirement visa, faithfully comply with the 90-day reporting obligation and live in a rented house in Pattaya.
Now I am going to visit family in the Netherlands for a few days and I have obtained a single Re-Entry at Immigration beforehand.
Upon return, the immigration officer will stamp “USED” there
Am I still obliged to report to the immigration in Jomtien within 24 hours?
Or does the homeowner have to do this by means of the TM 30 form?
Never had any problems with this in the past (also spent a few days in the Netherlands in 2016).
I ask this question because there are already countless Indian stories circulating and I would like to be certain about this matter.
Yes Jan I arrived early October 2016 and after 90 for extension in Jomtien at Immigration first the home owner had to show up to fill out that form TM30 AND he was fined 1600 baht. When all this was done I only got my 90 day extension.
I am amazed every time how the Thai can come up with as many paper rules as possible that then generate (fine) money.
you can no longer see the wood for the trees
you pay for six months visa at the embassy and still have to leave the country within three months
it is and remains an idiot fine scheme
but yes the country is so beautiful that I accept it.
With the help of Mr. Google find the form. Just type “TM 30 Thailand”. (see link)
The regulations are already clear (see link).
I know from experience that these regulations are often impossibly difficult to implement in practice ... so that I usually "forget" to remind my wife, family, friends, etc ... who provide me with shelter in many Thai provinces of their patriotic duty 🙂
Thai government might consider hiring me tomorrow, of course with a nice uniform and ditto benefits, in the hope that I try to enforce these regulations a little more consistently and persistently from my Thai wife, family and friends 🙂
Although I doubt whether this fits in El Generalissimo's to-do list.
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download
Until last year there was no immigration office in the province where my wife has a home. We had to go to the office in a neighboring province, way up in the mountains. My wife and I once tried to file a TM 30 with the local police station years ago. They heard the thunder in Cologne and looked at the form like a cow at a train. In the end, the form was politely refused with a smile, then there was more laughter and we had a good sound together with a few police officers. I already knew the words “Fallang ting tong” back then. I learned the word “kradaat” there.
At the next stay I try to convince my wife to submit a TM 30 again, this time at the newly opened immigration office in our provincial capital. I wonder if I can still convince her and if they will be just as happy with this farrang with a TM 30.
Sometimes the behavior of some immigration officers seems like downright bullying and you're all too quick to blame yourself by suspecting that you've annoyed some ladies in some way.
It used to be much more pleasant in Chiangmai, but also in Bangkok.
The ladies know that they are supreme in the situation and you see how all those foreigners nod and bow and do everything not to offend the ladies by expressing a hint of impatience or irritation. It must have to do with the general political atmosphere in Thailand, which is becoming more authoritarian and more anti-foreigners.
1. Reporting persons at a residence address is certainly not new.
It is described in the “Immigration Act, BE 2522. This means that it has been applicable since at least 1979.
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf
“Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with those hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified”
Note – “Possessor” can also be translated as “occupier”, which can then be translated as “tenant”.
It depends on how immigration wants to translate it, and that may explain why tenants are also held accountable for this.
The form “TM 30 – Notification for house-master, owner or the possessor of the residence where aliens has stayed” has been designed for reporting and should therefore be used.
Nowadays there is also more control on this, but again depending on which immigration office you use. As with many of those things.
In the past, these reports were rarely made, usually because most owners or heads of household simply did not know that foreigners had to be reported.
Hotels know this of course and they can also do this online. Landlords of houses, apartments, etc. can also contact immigration and request an access code to report this online.
Normally, everyone should be able to report it online in the long term.
I don't know how far this is.
2. The address you report upon entering the airport on your “Arrival” card (TM6) does not say anything about your residence address.
What you enter there is the address where you will probably spend the 1st night, but there is no evidence that you will go there, or will stay there.
The only proof that you have actually arrived at an address and are staying there is the TM30 form.
3. The TM30 form has nothing to do with a 90 day report.
A 90-day report only needs to be made for an uninterrupted stay of 90 days in Thailand (and subsequent periods of 90 days uninterrupted stay).
However, with a 90-day notification, you can ask why your arrival was not reported earlier. This may also result in the responsible person being fined.
4. Whether or not you own something says nothing or relieves you of nothing.
It's not because you own it that you actually stay there.
5. How strictly an immigration office applies the regulations around the TM30 is very different.
It is therefore possible that people write that they have never had a comment about it, or that it has never been checked. They are right.
Others will have to deal with stricter regulations and even have to pay a fine. They are also right.
So the experiences will be different
The fact is that the notification obligation exists, and what is not strictly applied today may be different tomorrow.
It often depends on your immigration office how strict they check this, but that applies to several things as most people know by now.
In summary, I come to the following result and have 1 more question for clarity.
Living on a permanent retirement visa in Thailand, I am going abroad for a week or so.
Get a Re-Entry permit from IMO.
Come back to Thailand, the home owner of where I am staying must report this within 24 hours to IMO, or to the local police if there is no IMO, by means of. the TM 30 form, otherwise I run the risk of a fine for the next 90 days. If the homeowner does not do this, I will be fined.
As often happens, one IMO is difficult about this and the other is not.
Hotels are set up to inform the local IMO – via the computer – who is coming and going when.
If your Thai partner is traveling with you and the hotel books the room in his name, the hotel may omit this notification.
The address on the Arrival Card says nothing about your place of residence; the only proof that you have actually arrived at an address and are staying there, is the TM30 form.
Your 90 days start new when you enter Thailand.
The TM30 form has nothing to do with your 90 day report, it only relates to your 90 day uninterrupted stay in Thailand.
Do I have to report to IMO before departure abroad from when to when I will be abroad?
Nico B