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Reader question: Applying for a Belgian driving license based on a Thai driving licence

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags: ,
January 8 2015

Dear readers,

In the meantime, we, my Thai wife and myself, have been living in Belgium for almost a year. All documents are in order and now we have applied for a Belgian driving license for her on the basis of her Thai driving licence. That's fairly easy.

In addition to an official translation, which is quite expensive, I must conclude, only an application form has to be completed. Since we are going to visit the family for 2 months at the end of January, I asked the municipality when she got her Thai driving license back. This had to be submitted with the application for verification.

I was therefore very surprised when it was said that she would not get this driving license back because she is not allowed to drive here in Belgium. To drive in Thailand, she must apply for an international driver's license, which, as everyone knows, means little in Thailand.

Does anybody have experience with this? Surely a person can hold several driver's licenses?

Regards,

Bernard

Number of times read: 343

18 responses to “Reader question: Applying for a Belgian driving license based on a Thai driving licence”

  1. theos says up
    8 January 2015 at 01: 39

    I was in the Netherlands in 1999, for a while, and had my Thai driving license converted (it was still possible then) to a Dutch driving licence. I also did not get the Thai driver's license back because it was invalidated. I then went to Thailand and got a new driver's license there with the story that I had lost it. Got a new one right away. Mind you, this was 15 years ago now.

  2. lung addie says up
    8 January 2015 at 04: 36

    Dear,

    what you write is completely correct. Your wife will not get her original driving license back, that is the regulation in Belgium. Unfortunately you asked this question too late because there was a very simple solution to avoid this. Before applying in Belgium, your wife could have applied for a new driving license in Thailand on the grounds that she had lost the original one. Then she had two and could surrender one in Belgium and keep her reserve Thai driver's license to use in Thailand. But that is still possible, next time you come to Thailand with her she will just apply for a new one on the same basis: lost.
    lung addie

  3. bernard says up
    8 January 2015 at 09: 28

    Yes indeed, perhaps the best solution, request a new one when we are back in Thailand at the end of this month. Tks

  4. KingBelgium says up
    8 January 2015 at 10: 17

    Dear,

    I read that you need a translation for the Thai driving license to be converted in Belgium.
    Where did you get that translated? In Belgium or Thailand?
    And what does this cost?

    Grtn

  5. support says up
    8 January 2015 at 10: 46

    Still, I wonder on what basis (Belgian) authorities believe they are allowed to withdraw a driving license issued by the Thai government. The argument “she is not allowed to drive it in Belgium” makes no sense. If that is indeed not allowed and she is stopped and can only show a Thai driver's license, she will be ticketed for driving without a valid driver's license.
    When my girlfriend applied for a Dutch passport at the time, her Thai passport was also taken away. The Dutch passport explicitly states that it is the property of the Dutch State. This will probably be stated in the passports of most countries. Therefore, simply taking it and making it invalid is in fact a form of theft and destruction of someone else's property.

    Although a Dutch driver's license does not state "ownership of the Dutch state", it is highly questionable whether confiscation by a non-Dutch government is lawful. And again, the argument used “she is not allowed to drive it here” does not justify the unilateral collection. So here too there is theft. And what law prohibits having more than 1 driver's license?

    In short: illegal behavior by the Belgian government in this case.

    • RonnyLatPhrao says up
      9 January 2015 at 09: 39

      You are wondering whether a Dutch driving license can be confiscated by a non-Dutch government.

      Perhaps this answer from your own national government will suffice.
      http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/rijbewijs/vraag-en-antwoord/kan-mijn-nederlandse-rijbewijs-in-het-buitenland-worden-ingevorderd.html.

      By the way, this is also possible by the Dutch government with Belgian driving licenses, but I already knew that because a colleague of mine was already allowed to experience this in practice when we were still working in the Netherlands
      The driving ban then only applies to the Netherlands. To continue driving in Belgium, you can request a copy of your driving license from your municipality, which you must return when you get the original back from the Netherlands.

      In short – nothing illegal, let alone theft. And as far as the Thai is concerned, nothing is being withdrawn, but it is an exchange.
      The officer's answer – she can't drive it here anyway – doesn't make any sense.

  6. Willem says up
    8 January 2015 at 11: 28

    I lived in Belgium myself and had to hand in my Dutch driving license and got a Belgian driving license for life. Back in the Netherlands I had to hand in my Belgian driving license again in the Netherlands and I have a Dutch driving license again. necessary if you go outside the European Union. If you go to Thailand, I would also bring my Belgian driver's license.
    Good luck.

  7. You says up
    8 January 2015 at 12: 30

    Is it also possible to exchange a Thai driving license for a Dutch driving license in the Netherlands?
    My wife also has a Thai driver's license.

    • Cor Verkerk says up
      8 January 2015 at 19: 14

      I am also curious if this is possible. My wife also has a Thai driver's license but doesn't feel like taking lessons here.
      If it is indeed possible to get it that way, it is of course something else.

      Cor Verkerk

    • theos says up
      9 January 2015 at 02: 24

      @Siem, No, can't anymore, has been. I don't remember what year they stopped doing that.
      So now you have to do exams for a Dutch driver's license. By the way, money for every foreign driver's license. Best wishes.

  8. Henri says up
    8 January 2015 at 13: 14

    I also experienced this phenomenon in 1990 in NL with an American driver's license. It's crazy that they do this. besides, it's not even allowed officially!! It is not your property! these are state property that another country is not allowed to take!! they can see it, possibly make a copy but never take it! it is also clearly stated in your passport that it is not your property. You can make a case out of it, which will win you in the end, but the simplest thing is indeed before you do something like that, report your existing one as missing and then you will get a new document. it is again an absurd situation that forces the people to do something strange. because what do you do when you go back to that other country, you have to get a driver's license again, we don't keep going. and those guys just ask for money. the question still remains open: what on earth do they do with all those documents?

  9. Serge says up
    8 January 2015 at 14: 45

    Can confirm what is being said here.

    A Thai driving license is exchanged for a Belgian/Dutch one. The Thai is taken into custody.
    As suggested, it is quite easy to apply for a new Thai driving license once back on Thai soil, and not lose sleep over the exchanged one.

    You need an international driver's license to drive a car in Thailand as a Belgian/Dutch citizen. However, this is limited in time (3 years according to the portal of the Belgian government, but I seem to remember it was much less - a few months) and costs quite a bit (Belgium). For a short stay it hardly pays, given the many transport options in TH. You can apply for it at the town hall of your place of residence

  10. Paul Vercammen says up
    8 January 2015 at 16: 17

    Dear, in Belgium every municipality seems to have its own rules. I don't know what type of driver's license your wife has, but this was the simplest document in the stack for us. Ordinary driving license issued at the municipality for inspection by the public prosecutor's office and subsequently received a Belgian driving license. This without translation or other tralala. We also took an international driver's license because we went back to Thailand and she indeed had to leave her driver's license with the municipality. You are not allowed to have 2 driving licenses in Belgium. So if you go to Thailand, either get an international driver's license or hand in your Belgian driving license and ask for your Thai back. Success with it!

  11. bernard says up
    8 January 2015 at 16: 34

    @ KingBelgium: the price was 37€, if you know what is on a driver's license that is quite expensive.
    Amporn Chairang
    Sworn translator Thai-Dutch
    Father Pellensstraat 3
    3910 Neerpelt
    Tel +011 66 45 96
    Mobile 0477 55 13 59

  12. Rob V says up
    8 January 2015 at 18: 47

    I also doubt whether one can take a driver's license just like that, that is Thai state property. For example, they are not allowed to take a foreign passport. Just ask your civil servant on the basis of which law they think they have that right? Belgium also has an online legislation database (wetten.nl but for Be).

    If someone stays in BE and TH for about 6 months and both countries see that person as a resident (not to be confused with a national), then it is also logical that you can drive in both countries on the national driving license and therefore no international driving license for tourists ( short stay) is intended.

    In the Netherlands you cannot exchange the Thai driving license. What is possible: if Thais live in Belgium, exchange their driving license for a Belgian one, move to the Netherlands and exchange the Belgian driving license for a Dutch one. Which driving licenses you can exchange in NL can be found on rijksoverheid.nl and CBR (central office for driving skills).

    • RonnyLatPhrao says up
      9 January 2015 at 04: 04

      Legislation on driving licenses can be found in the Royal Decree on driving licenses of 23 March 1998.
      http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_loi/change_lg.pl?language=nl&la=N&cn=1998032331&table_name=wet

      There is also a circular to the municipal authorities regarding foreign driving licences.
      http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/nl/binaries/28%20Niet%20europese%20buitenlandse%20rijbewijzen_tcm466-223971.pdf

      In these documents you can find out why the original is needed, and that a foreign driving license is exchanged for a Belgian driving licence. So it is not converted, but it is involved in an exchange and there are conditions involved.
      The original will be kept or, where appropriate, returned to the country of issue.
      Do you not want to hand over your Thai driver's license? Good now, then no exchange and no Belgian driving license in return.

      For example, Article 17 of the legislation states “If it concerns a European driving licence, it shall be returned to the authority that issued it, stating the reasons for that return. In the case of a foreign driving licence, this driving license shall be kept by the authority referred to in Article 7 and returned to the holder if the holder no longer meets the conditions set out in Article 3, § 1 for obtaining a driving licence, against return of the Belgian driving license.

      So the example you quoted doesn't really work. First to Belgium, exchange driving license and then to the Netherlands and have it converted to a Dutch one there.
      If the Thai moves from Belgium to the Netherlands, he/she no longer meets the conditions for the exchange to the Belgian driving license and he/she must exchange the Belgian driving license for the Thai driving license when moving….
      If they do not do this when moving house, they commit fraud with the Belgian driving license.

      This does not mean that a Thai who moves to the Netherlands with a Belgian driving license would automatically commit fraud.
      They can of course also have obtained their driving license through exams and training.
      They can then perfectly exchange this driving license for a Dutch one.

      • Rob V says up
        9 January 2015 at 07: 20

        Thanks Ronny, then at least it's in black and white and it's clear what the official intention is without fear of misinterpretation by a civil servant or citizen.

        Although I still find it strange if you ask my opinion, someone who varies over the years for many (4 to 8) months in 2 countries is not a tourist in either. Riding an int. driver's license is therefore remarkable. Driving on a TH (or any country) + BE (or other EU) driving license then feels more logical. Well, someone came up with those rules. Applying for a Thai driving license again if you live in Belgium for almost the entire year does not seem to me to be the intention, according to the Belgian authorities. After all, surrendering is pretty pointless. Ditto with Belgians who obtain a Thai driving licence.

        For the Dutch, here's a link (the one from rijksoverheid.nl can be googled yourself):
        https://www.rdw.nl/Particulier/Paginas/Voorwaarden-voor-omwisselen-buitenlands-rijbewijs-naar-Nederlands-rijbewijs.aspx

      • Rob V says up
        9 January 2015 at 08: 01

        Thank you, I quote article 17 paragraphs 3 and 4:

        Issue:
        (...)
        3° a declaration of honor stating that the applicant does not hold a European driving licence, except in the case referred to in § 2;
        4° if applicable, the justification for the invoked exemption from the theoretical examination or the practical examination.
        The driving license is issued within a period of three years from the date of passing the practical examination [1 referred to in Articles 29, 2° and 33 and in Article 21 of the Royal Decree of 4 May 2007 on driving licences, the professional competence and further training of drivers of vehicles in categories C1, C1+E, C, C+E, D1, D1+E, D, D+E.]1. If not, the candidate must undergo further training and take a new theoretical and practical exam.
        [2 Any driver's license that is not issued within a period of [3 three months]3 after the application shall be destroyed by the authority referred to in Article 7.
        The minister or his authorized representative determines the destination to be given to the application forms.]2
        § 2. If, in accordance with Article 27, 2°, the applicant presents a European driving license or a foreign driving licence , referred to in Article 23, § 2, 1° of the Law, he signs a statement confirming that the driving license is authentic and still valid; the driving license is issued to the government referred to in Article 7.
        If it is a European driving licence, it will be returned to the authority that issued it, stating the reasons for the return. In the case of a foreign driving licence, this driving license shall be kept by the authority referred to in Article 7 and returned to the holder if the holder no longer meets the conditions set out in Article 3, § 1 for obtaining a driving licence, against return of the Belgian driving license.
        [1 § 3. No driving license may be issued to applicants who already hold a European driving license [3 …]3, except in the case referred to in § 2.
        No driving license may be issued to an applicant who already holds a European driving license [3 which]3 is subject to a national restriction, suspension or withdrawal in another Member State of the European Union or of the European Economic Area. ]1


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