Dear readers,

It doesn't get any easier to apply for payroll tax exemption. The tax authorities in Heerlen ask you to prove that you are a tax resident in your country of residence (Thailand), and therefore pay tax there.

They seem to be basing themselves recently on the remittance principle. In other words, if your private pension from the Netherlands is directly transferred gross to Thailand, then there is the remittance principle, so you have your income in Thailand and you therefore have to pay tax here.

The problem, however, is that the tax offices all give their own interpretation to this. So I am looking for expats who are registered here as tax residents, and how they were able to arrange this.

Regards,

Peter

21 responses to “Application or follow-up application for payroll tax and premium exemption”

  1. PCBbrewer says up

    Just go to the tax office and say you want to pay tax. Always welcome. If you are above a certain age, you get an extra discount. Prove permanent residence.

    • john says up

      bit easy to say. There are quite a few reports on this blog that people had trouble convincing the tax officer that you want to pay taxes. I read on this blog that some officials say you don't have to pay taxes.
      By the way, the declaration itself is rather simple. There is an English version of the declaration form.

  2. Roel says up

    It can also be done differently, if you have money in the bank here, for example a deposit, you will receive interest on that. A standard 15% tax on the interest is deducted there. Go to the tax office in your area, you will receive a tax number, you have to file a return and you will get that 15% back. That should be enough for the Netherlands, after all, you have demonstrated that you are a tax resident of Thailand.

    Succes

    • Lammert de Haan says up

      No, Roy.

      You have demonstrated that you have a Thai bank account, but not that you also live or stay in Thailand for at least 183 days in order to be a tax resident for Personal Income Tax (PIT) with regard to your income from the Netherlands and to enjoy treaty protection on the basis of of the double taxation treaty concluded between the Netherlands and Thailand.

  3. Erik says up

    Remittance base has been down for 2 years; see https://www.thailandblog.nl/expats-en-pensionado/opleggen-remittance-base-belastingdienst-baan/ The service no longer requires that of you and people who have been imposed can have this expire for two years.

    The fact that tax liability and paying tax are completely different concepts has been explained here before; too bad they still get it mixed up. Heerlen demands that you file a declaration in Thailand, not that you also have to pay.

  4. George says up

    Just this week I received approval from Heerlen not to pay payroll tax on my KLM pension. In itself, there were no problems for this exemption because I had an R022 statement from the Thai tax authorities for 2018. Getting the R022 statement was less easy, after I removed myself from the conversation with the competent official and my Thai wife continued the spoke, I received this statement 3 days later neatly sent home by post. I have also demonstrated that I live here through my registration with the municipality of Krathum Baen, deregistration in NL, deregistration from the healthcare insurance in NL and demonstrated that my full pension is transferred to Thailand every month. All this with retroactive effect from March 1, 2019 and valid for 5 years. The entire procedure took 2 months.

  5. john says up

    Of course, you can't pay taxes before the year is up. That is why you cannot make it clear to the Dutch tax authorities that you will pay tax in Thailand instead of in the Netherlands.
    The start is that you apply for a tax number at the tax office in your place of residence. You sometimes have to push through a bit, partly because it is sometimes believed, due to a lack of knowledge of the relevant official, that you do not have to pay taxes. Just press a little or ask for the boss or go to the district office.
    You will then receive a small square card with your details and tax number on it.

  6. Peter says up

    You must demonstrate that you have a tax number, but also that you actually pay tax here.

    • Lammert de Haan says up

      That's not correct, Peter. The tax number does not say anything about the fact that you are a tax resident of Thailand. You can now sit in Timbuktu in Mali for a long time. After all, you also have a Dutch citizen service number and yet (I assume) you are not a tax resident of the Netherlands.

      The fact that you actually have to pay taxes is also a misconception. If the Thai tax official refuses to receive your return (which I regularly encounter in my consultancy practice) or if you do not owe any tax due to the high exemptions, the right to levy will not return to the Netherlands.

      The same applies, for example, to an emigration to the Philippines. The Philippines does not levy income tax on income sourced outside the Philippines. As a result, private pensions and annuity payments from the Netherlands are not taxed anywhere. The Philippines is allowed to levy on this, but it does not. Subsequently, also in this case, the right to levy does not return to the Netherlands.

  7. gerritsen says up

    I have a procedure pending in the Netherlands in this regard. I do a lot of Thai Dutch tax matters. From a tax point of view you have to follow the AWR for the Netherlands and if your center is in Thailand you follow the treaty and the Netherlands withdraws. You are then subject to taxes via PIT for more or less than 180 days in Thailand. How Thailand does or does not effectuate that is unimportant.
    Proof of declaration in Thailand etc. is incorrect because no conditions have been set for that withdrawal nor in treaty or elsewhere and whether powers have been assigned to the Netherlands.
    Incidentally, the Thai tax authorities have completed a declaration. That too was insufficient.
    You can see, after all, I have been in the profession as a tax advisor for more than 30 years, that due to the idle time as a result of an early dismissal scheme with a high compensation, a lot of knowledge and experience has disappeared from the tax authorities. This is concealed by taking indefensible positions with a lot of fire, changing them, constantly involving new positions in opposition and defending them. There is no self-reflection or self-criticism. So you have to litigate.

    • Eric Kuypers says up

      It is good to read that a fourth tax advisor with years of experience has come forward here who takes the position that what Heerlen is asking is simply not possible. If I read correctly, the procedures are piling up and I am curious what the judge will ultimately decide.

    • Lammert de Haan says up

      The comment posted is far too short-sighted and even contains a pertinent inaccuracy.

      The reader's submission is about applying for an exemption from withholding payroll tax or payroll tax from sources of income originating in the Netherlands, whose right to levy income tax is reserved to Thailand by Treaty. The sentence: “Then via PIT you are subject to taxes in Thailand for more or LESS THAN 180 DAYS” does not fit. If you live or stay in Thailand for 180 days or less, you are considered a “non-resident”. Subsequently, you are only a taxpayer on income the source of which is located in Thailand. In that case, there can be no question of exemption in the Netherlands and what this question is about.

      Also the sentence: "Proof of declaration in Thailand etc. is incorrect because no conditions have been set for that withdrawal either in treaty or elsewhere and or powers have been assigned to the Netherlands" was a highly unfortunate choice for a tax expert and even completely incorrect.

      Apart from the linguistic aspect of this sentence, I note that the Netherlands is indeed allowed to request a recent Thai income tax return with accompanying assessment or a recent declaration of tax liability in the country of residence. The Tax and Customs Administration / Foreign Office must even convince itself that you do not live in Mali but in Thailand and that you fall within the criteria set out in Article 4 of the Double Taxation Treaty concluded between the Netherlands and Thailand and, as a fiscal resident of Thailand, enjoys treaty protection under this Treaty!

      If you do not request an exemption, but if you request a refund of the withheld wage tax on a tax return, the Tax and Customs Administration/Office Abroad will never ask you to prove that you do live in Thailand. And that is, in fact, a carelessness. After all, you may have moved to I know where long ago and you may no longer enjoy treaty protection under any treaty at all.

      But what does go wrong with the scheme applicable from the end of November 2016 with regard to applying for an exemption is the fact that the Tax and Customs Administration / Foreign Office only accepts a recent Thai return with accompanying assessment or a recent declaration of tax liability in the country of residence as proof of being of tax resident of Thailand. This is in conflict with the doctrine of the free provision of evidence that applies within Administrative Law. Only the Administrative Court determines what is admitted as evidence. This is therefore not the preserve of the Tax and Customs Administration/Office Abroad.

      Unlike you, I therefore do not contest the right of the Tax and Customs Administration to ask for one of the documents mentioned in the appeal cases I have pending before the Zeeland – West Brabant District Court. With that you go off like a watering can to the Administrative Judge. However, I do appeal to the
      free evidence and also provide the necessary arguments and means of evidence, thereby indicating that my customer falls under the scope of Article 4 of the Treaty and can be regarded as a tax resident of Thailand on the basis of this Article and therefore enjoys treaty protection. And that is something completely different. If I were you, I would also go down this road very soon, if you want to achieve something for your customers!

      Incidentally, it is about time that the Tax and Customs Administration/Office Abroad was called back and resumed its positions before the change that took effect at the end of November 2016. At that time, the application form contained, among other things, the following explanation:

      “You can decide for yourself with which pieces of evidence you prove that you are a resident of the other state for the purpose of applying the treaty. For example, you can submit a statement from the tax authorities of your country of residence, or use a copy of your tax return, in which your worldwide income is stated.”

      A statement from the Thai tax authorities was not required, but was merely cited as an example, just like a tax return.

      Subsequently, it was pointed out, among other things, to enclose the documents showing that you are tax resident in your country of residence

      All this did justice to the doctrine of free evidence!

      Normally I would not have responded to this message, but since you claim to be a tax specialist with 30 years of experience (and now also retired!), I think you should set somewhat higher requirements in terms of sentence structure, but especially in terms of tax-legal correctness, because there is a lack of it on.
      And all this to prevent the emergence of even more misconceptions with regard to applying for an exemption from withholding payroll tax/wage tax.

  8. gerritsen says up

    I could handle many of the above tax matters. I am a retired tax partner of Deloitte and still active.

  9. carpenter says up

    I emigrated to Thailand in April 2015 and tried to file my first Thai tax return in March 2016. After some insistence and my willingness to pay a fixed amount of Thai tax (5.000 THB), I first received a tax number. Then also paid my first tax. Through the M form and the Thai tax receipts I have received all my paid NL tax and premiums back. Subsequently, I applied for and received exemptions from wage tax on my 2 conjugated pensions in Heerlen with effect from June 2016 (for 5 years). I received the wage tax from January to May 2016 back with my tax return for 2016.
    In 2018 I received a 1-time other pension benefit and I received that payroll tax back a week ago, after my tax return for 2018 and I had proven that I pay tax in Thailand every year + the 2 completed letters signed by the Thai tax authorities + a copy of my Thai yellow house book. This is because an exemption must be requested again for every other pension payer !!!

  10. eugene says up

    You can get a TIN number (tax number) at the tax office in Thailand. Then you can pay tax here. Only AFTER you have paid taxes here for the past year, will you receive from the tax office in Thailand an official document for the tax authorities in your previous home country as proof that you have paid taxes here. It states, among other things, how much you declared it as income and how much tax you paid here.

  11. Roel says up

    I myself had stated all my assets of annuities, single premiums and pension via an M form, with copies of the policies and the value on the date of departure. (emigration). Official deregistration was 2007, came here in 2004.

    You will then receive a protective assessment with an amount for tax to be paid. You don't have to pay anything because a delay was right there. I was just not allowed to touch it for 10 years according to the law, and I didn't.

    Now that tax exemption from the protective assessment has just been requested on April 3 this year, April 23 already reported back that the tax exemption from the protective assessment has been granted, provided nothing has changed, it has not.
    So by mail from Thailand to the Netherlands and answer back from tax authorities in 20 days.
    But I think it's a new slogan for the tax authorities. WE CANNOT GO FASTER.

    Gr. Roel

  12. Lammert de Haan says up

    The problems with the Foreign Office of the Tax Authorities are regularly discussed in Thailand Blog. Loyal readers should by now know from the inside out how things work out. I have also written about this repeatedly and will now limit myself to the main points.

    The most normal thing in the world is that the Tax Authorities / Foreign Office asks you to prove that you are a tax resident of Thailand. After all, she needs to know whether you enjoy treaty protection and which of the nearly 90 treaties concluded by the Netherlands to prevent double taxation are concerned. If you live in Timbuktu in Mali, you have a problem. The Netherlands has not concluded a treaty with that country. You then pay tax on your (world) income in both the Netherlands and Mali.

    Until the end of November 2016, you could prove by any means that you were tax resident of (in this case) Thailand.

    Since the end of November 2016, the Tax and Customs Administration only accepts as proof of being a tax resident:
    a. a recent tax liability declaration in country of residence, signed and stamped by the competent authority of Thailand;
    b. a recent tax return and associated income tax assessment.

    Instead of her own statement drawn up in English, she also accepts recent statements from the tax authorities of the country of residence, the content of which corresponds to that of the Dutch statement. It must therefore contain a statement that you are a tax resident for income tax purposes in Thailand. To this end, the Thai tax authorities use form RO 22. This Thai statement (translated into English) is even more correct than its Dutch counterpart, because it lacks a lot from a tax-legal point of view.

    By merely accepting the conditions under a. and b. However, the Tax and Customs Administration goes far beyond its book in these documents and commits an unlawful government act. It is not the Tax Authorities that determines what is allowed as proof of being a tax resident of a country. Within the framework of the doctrine of free evidence that applies within Administrative Law, only the Administrative Court decides what is allowed as evidence. The attitude of the Tax and Customs Administration is therefore arrogance at its best!

    To demonstrate that you are a tax resident of Thailand, the Treaty for the prevention of double taxation concluded between the Netherlands and Thailand contains a large number of points of reference.

    First of all, it must be established under Article 4(1) of the Convention that you are subject to tax under the laws of Thailand on the basis of your place of residence.

    The Revenue Department of Thailand writes about this on its website:

    “Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from
    foreign sources that are brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.”

    NOTE: the Treaty is based on 183 days!

    Under Article 4(2) of the Convention, you are deemed to be resident for tax purposes (and also in this order):
    a. of the State where you have a permanent home at your disposal; if you have a permanent home available to you in both States, you shall be deemed to be a resident of the State with which your personal and economic relations are closer (centre of vital interests);
    b. if the State in which you have your center of vital interests cannot be determined, or if you do not have a permanent home available to you in either State, you shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which you have an habitual abode;
    c. if you have an habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, you shall be deemed to be a resident of the State of which you are a national;
    d. if you are a national of both States or of neither of them, the competent authorities of the States shall settle the matter by mutual agreement.

    Explanation of Article 4(2) of the Convention

    You have deregistered from the Netherlands and no longer have a permanent home available to you here. In Thailand you rent a house. In that case, it becomes very easy to prove that you are tax resident of Thailand: you send proof of registration with your municipality, the rental contract and proof of (also recent) rent payments and payments for the supply of water and energy costs. That is the way I usually go with Thai customers who are not registered with the Thai tax authorities. After all, it is about demonstrating that you have a sustainable home at your disposal in Thailand, while that is not the case in the Netherlands.

    In addition, you can also think of additional evidence, such as your bills for your telephone and internet connection, receipts and so on, to also indicate where the center of your financial/economic interests lie.

    Your bank statements can be of great importance, both from your Thai and from your Dutch bank account. After all, they also provide a lot of information about the center of your financial/economic vital interests. In addition, it can be used to determine where you usually stay (especially if debit card payments are made here). You can also prove where you usually reside with the stamps in your passport.

    Are you married or do you have a long-term relationship with perhaps a child, also state that. With this you indicate that your personal vital interests are also located in Thailand.

    I also always add all this to a request for exemption, if one does not have one of the documents required by the tax authorities.

    It is certain that you will encounter a lot of resistance from the tax authorities. They canonized their new policy introduced at the end of November 2016. An “impediment” retired a week and a half ago, namely mrs. V (also well known to Erik!). However, last Friday I found out in an appeal case concerning a Thai customer that a new "prophet" has already arisen.

    If you do not have one of the documents required by the Tax Authorities, obtaining an exemption from payroll tax withholding is a long-winded and very time-consuming process. Your application for exemption will not be processed. You cannot lodge an objection against this. However, this is possible against the first withholding of wage tax from, for example, your private pension. This objection will be irrevocably rejected by the tax authorities. The way is then open to the Administrative Court for lodging an appeal.

    I currently have 2 appeals pending at the Court of Zeeland – West Brabant against the inspector of the Tax and Customs Administration/Office Abroad. However, you have to count on a lead time of one year. This Court is dying in work. It even organizes court days at other Courts, such as the North Holland Court. The latter would suit me well since I prefer to travel from Heerenveen to Haarlem than to Breda.

    I have compiled an extensive document on the matter of applying for an exemption from wage tax withholding, filing a notice of objection against the withholding and lodging an appeal. I will send that document upon request. Then do so by email: [email protected].

    Lammert de Haan, tax specialist (specialized in international tax law and social insurance).

    • Rene Chiangmai says up

      Lammert,

      It is not (yet) an issue for me, but I am very happy with your contributions on this subject.
      I always read them and my image about living in Thailand is becoming clearer.

      I also appreciate your humor:
      “She even organizes court days at other Courts, such as the North Holland Court. The latter would suit me well, since I prefer to travel from Heerenveen to Haarlem than to Breda.”

      555

      keep it up,
      René

    • Eric Kuypers says up

      The retirement of Mrs. V, Lammert, is good news, but I'm not surprised what happened next. So the arena remains well occupied.

      • Lammert de Haan says up

        That's right, Eric. And that new "prophet" erased me Friday, as well as Mrs. V in the past, nice to tell her that with a visa you can only stay in Thailand but not live there. You apparently do that in a large cardboard box somewhere in a porch.

        And to think that Article 4 of the Convention mentions in the same breath "to live or stay ……………." (sigh).

        • Erik says up

          Well, Lammert, then you can advise that civil servant to read this blog. Dutch people who write here have in many cases been living in Thailand for 43 years, so that must be a best sweat and monsoon resistant box…..


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