Call: Who wants to participate in this international television series? (reader submission)
I have been a filmmaker all my life and have been in love with a fantastic Thai woman for three years now and married her wholeheartedly more than a year ago. I would very much like to make an international television series about the (not always fun but sometimes better) adventures we have experienced.
First of all, I am not talking about the bureaucracy of the IND, although that plays a part in not making 'love' more natural. The main subject of this documentary series is: “How do, besides love, people with completely different cultural backgrounds eventually get together or not?” But the IND can always be part of personal anecdotes as a "mosquito",
Anyone who wants to take part in this international television series to vent his or her heart is certainly welcome at [email protected].
Of course, given my private situation, I start with Thai / Dutch (actual) loves. Then with peers in all other intercontinental areas.
Hopefully that will make the government and parliament think better. In the past, you only had to get married. Marriages of convenience have made it more complicated, but in terms of integration, in addition to Dutch, you really don't have to learn that Maxima is not from Germany or that Mark Rutte has amnesia? We are severely discriminated against by our government, on our own behalf (as voters).
And then refugees usually get an integration course for free . I heartily wish that for those sad people, but why are we, in connection with usually true love, so badly taken? So what's wrong with true love? Then you have almost stayed in the monkey”. when you just want to be happier.
In short: I am looking for allies to denounce this terrible unwelcome (previously known as liberal) Dutch policy via television and the internet.
Please respond with a brief summary. Then I will drop by to get acquainted and share the history in a nuanced way.
This may be a great project for all of us and soon also for lovers other than Thai / Dutch.
Completely from my heart!
Submitted by Ruud Monster – www.lavafilm.nl
Top initiative Ruud. I am also a victim of the failing Dutch government policy
Good idea. Also in the same boat
The Dutch government seems to be very enthusiastic about laying out the red carpet for some groups, while at the same time putting up as many obstacles as possible for others.
Hopefully it will be a nice documentary with many recognizable or unrecognizable stories. For his tolerant support to the cabinet in 2010, Wilders demanded a tightening of integration requirements. Officials managed to come up with the most idiotic and nonsensical questions for the part “Knowledge of Dutch society” and the teaching material for the part “Orientation on the Dutch labor market” is extremely complicated, even for Dutch people with a completed school education. Unfortunately, I estimate the chance that your documentary would bring about an adjustment of the integration process as minimal. On the one hand, the cabinet does not excel in taking any decision whatsoever, and on the other hand, so many other urgent matters compete for priority to be dealt with by the cabinet and parliament. Of course I support your intention to denounce the integration process, you should definitely continue with that and I also hope that the documentary will attract many viewers in due course. Good luck!
I think that is a wonderful initiative
After reading this article I wonder what the author actually wants to make a report about???
Two quotes that prompted my question:
– The main subject of this documentary series is: “How do, besides love, people with completely different cultural backgrounds ultimately come together or not?
– In short: I am looking for allies to denounce this terrible unwelcome (formerly known as liberal) Dutch policy via television and the internet.
Do you want to make a report about point 1 or do you want to make a report about point 2: Dutch political policy?
If it concerns point 2, then you are not in the right place. TB is not a political blog but a blog about Thailand, or should be about Thailand.
I live permanently in Thailand with my Thai wife. It has nothing to do with the IND or with integration. The series is apparently only aimed at Dutch people who live in the Netherlands with a foreign wife.
In addition to all their criticism of the Thai authorities (immigration, social security, police and army), expats in Thailand should realize that as a foreigner in Thailand you don't have to take an integration exam at all: you don't have to learn Thai history, values and standards, the Thai language... ….
Chris,
I agree with you that for a Farang, with a little money, staying in Thailand is easier than for a Thai in the Netherlands. In that respect, the immigrant Dutchman with a Thai wife is treated the same by the integration law as an African who is wants to settle in the Netherlands. In addition, of course, certain groups such as Japanese, Koreans, Americans and Turks do not, in my opinion, have to integrate at all, as well as Europeans from countries that are somewhat far removed from the Dutch culture.
The Thai system, where foreigners can only stay in the country, who have an income several times higher than the local population or have an amount in the bank that is almost impossible for the local population, and have no further rights, would never even be accepted by the most right-wing parties in the social Netherlands
Chris,
In Thailand you are not naturalized and you do not have the rights of a Thai person.
No Thai passport, no right to permanent residence, no right to vote, no right to buy land.
In the Netherlands, even non-established people can buy land and build up state pension even without having a job
Integration gives access to all rights that a Dutch person also has, such as a Dutch passport, education, voting rights, health care and permanent settlement while retaining his or her original nationality.
In addition, there are several Thai people in the Netherlands without an integration diploma who have been staying there for years on a work visa or on the basis of residence with a partner. Build up a pension in addition to their state pension.
Dear Kuhn Moo,
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of Dutch people who live permanently in Thailand without an integration exam, because that does not exist here. They work here or they are married to a Thai partner or they are retired. And if they work, they also accrue a Thai pension with their company or government agency. They will receive state pension from the Netherlands in due course.
Dear Khan Moo,
Integration does not exist in Thailand. If you meet the conditions, you can extend your visa every year until your death. And build up a pension if you work, get a Thai ID and a Thai driver's license.
You are confusing integration with naturalization. Civic integration eventually entitles you to naturalization as a Dutch citizen after a number of years if you wish. Everyone has to decide for themselves if they want to.
You can also naturalize in Thailand: Thai passport, voting rights, etc
In addition to naturalization, there is also permanent residence in Thailand. The conditions for this largely correspond to the civic integration requirements in the Netherlands.
The main difference between Thailand and the Netherlands in this regard seems to me that integration in Thailand as required in the Netherlands does not exist. A Dutch man can easily join his Thai wife and live with her permanently (with a visa that can be renewed once a year); otherwise it's a bit more complicated.
That's right Chris much according to his own insight and needs.
Apart from some requirements, which in my opinion are mainly financial and the traceability of person, you can live here almost 'your whole life' without any problems.
Money in the Thai bank every 90 days, get a stamp from your home address and you're done.
Renew your visa once a year and on to the ninety.
As far as the Netherlands is concerned, the 'integration' process was a headache for both her [my wife] and myself.
So obliges little interest for many and in the end incur hefty expenses.
Certain groups from Africa were three quarters of the class.
Job creation and politics by ignoring political demands is no more.
At the time, there were tests on various forums and blogs that regularly failed the 'original' Dutchman.
Shortly after the turn of the century, the Netherlands switched to frustration with 'family reunification' and the higher some parties climb the ladder, the worse it gets.
Perhaps some arguments for abolishing the civic integration obligation for non-European women who want to settle in the Netherlands as the wife of an immigrant man.
Firstly, there is a considerable capital flight from the Netherlands of Dutch men who take their money from the Netherlands and transfer it to the home country of the woman.
Secondly, it remains to be seen whether the government's position on compulsory integration is tenable.
This means that single older immigrant men cannot find a slightly younger partner who will ensure that they can continue to live at home longer, which is the wish of the cabinet.
A third point is the right to self-determination to live together with the partner of your choice who is not determined by a government on ethnic grounds, without setting any conditions.
A fourth point is that foreign women over the age of 40 who want to live with their older partner have little chance of obtaining an integration diploma.
Of course I understand that bringing in refugees, who have little or no chance in Dutch society, has been agreed internationally, but whether this should be done at the expense of the immigrant population is unclear to me.
The counterarguments at a glance:
– capital flight: nonsense. There is more capital flight from the Dutch who go to live in Spain or Portugal. In addition, Dutch people with a Thai partner (whether or not living in the Netherlands) transfer money to Thailand. It's their money too, so they can do whatever they want with it, right?
– is it sustainable? As long as the 2nd room doesn't say otherwise, yes. That's how democracy works. An established foreigner should know that.
– there is a lot of informal care and other facilities in the Netherlands. You really don't need a (why a much younger?) partner to continue living at home longer when you get older.
– ethnic grounds and the right to self-determination: if that foreign partner also has no entitlement to Dutch facilities, you are right. But if that partner does claim facilities, the government may set conditions, I think.
– that people over 40 have little chance of passing an integration exam, I think has more to do with their education and motivation than with their age. It's a bit like the argument that older expats have such a hard time mastering the Thai language.
The Netherlands has been taking in refugees (Jews, Huguenots, Surinamese, Vietnamese, Chinese) for centuries. Most of them have a full place in Dutch society.
I am in favor of abolishing civic integration just for the argument that it would make all people happier. Not for all those other, sometimes, fallacies.
I understand the frustration that is being raised because when my Thai girlfriend came to live in the Netherlands legally, she was not allowed to work. In the end she was allowed to do so and she was dependent on “exploitation jobs”, which meant being at an employment agency at 6 a.m. and then going to work at a place 8 km from home at 80 a.m. and being home at 7 p.m. with a minimum + salary based on working hours. At that time there were only Thai restaurants in Amsterdam in the Netherlands, so we thought such an idea would be a good idea to start a small Thai restaurant or possibly such a “spring roll cart”.
To make a long story short. The Vietnamese, Moroccans and Turks could sell their spring rolls and vegetables in a shop with support from all kinds of "help the pathetic pots" and we received a firm remark from the municipality that we were not eligible for it because I was Dutch and then the partner to support it. Up to 50% is also support for someone to become an independent entrepreneur, but as is often the case, civil servants in this area like to waste government money.
The fact that those aforementioned groups that were smarter in business could now buy real estate in their own country without having to declare it again escapes the Dutch tax rules. In the end they are quite right because a country governed by mediocrity at all levels asks for problems.
The stragglers in the rat race watch and vote for it. And others also flee the country if it deprives them of their right to vote, which should not be taken too seriously given the general trend that barely half of the NL population votes.
Hans Janmaat was not popular with his statements 40 years ago, but see how it can go. Full was full could not be said and now there are a few million extra people, resulting in daily problems such as nitrogen.
Over-fertilization gives the least yield, which is why hard choices are necessary, which is quite difficult in a polder landscape and you have to wait for the dike to break.
Dear Johnny,
As a foreigner in Thailand, you are not allowed to work at all without a work permit, not even to clean floors. And you don't get that permit that easily.
Only in the European elections less than 50% of the Dutch voted. More than 60% in all other elections and even 2% in the 81nd chamber elections.
https://kennisopenbaarbestuur.nl/thema/verkiezingen/
Your right to vote will not be taken away if you emigrate abroad.
The nitrogen problems are mainly due to large companies (Tata steel, Schiphol, construction companies, agricultural companies) that function regardless of the very slow growth of the population in the Netherlands (and certainly not by the millions). Agriculture mainly produces for export to other European countries.
Most small foreign entrepreneurs can manage themselves excellently and independently in the Netherlands, but needed a helping hand in the beginning.
As far as the truth.
You go a bit crazy Johnny in the second half of your speech, but I also have plenty of experience with the first part.
My wife had to go to day school the first year, no problem, but that was actually her second year in the Netherlands.
Third year she could do one evening twice a week.
School was not really in a bus route so many and also signed, were allowed to be there.
It was also necessary because the Africans who made up the majority of the class were also very good at recruiting 'staff' before and after school.
Of course without gross/net payment.
She had a bit more luck with the work, although a temping agency like there to sublet staff did have their mandatory requirements as far as language was concerned.
She ended up working at three companies without that help, which went easier and better.
Cleaning company with only 'family reunion' women. 150 pieces.
Thai restaurant, salary minus food [how lucky]
And the old Papa of the signed, worked in the hospital, so that also became cleaning.
Everything within walking distance or the moped or 'nice' filling the day.
We always planned to do the 'old age' in Thailand, but you can rest assured that it started many years earlier with not only the attitude of the government and its agencies and a large part of the population clearly present who very 'kindly' let it be known that they saw things differently.
The Netherlands has gone from say the XNUMXs freedom-happy getting a Dutch passport during 'the groceries' unbeaten to a very unreasonable policy.