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I can't quite understand why people here are so exceptionally enthusiastic about Transferwise, without any nuance.
When I transfer money from Belgium to Thailand, I do that from my DB account to my Thai account here. This Thai account is an account in EUR. I also have one of these in US$.
Now what is the difference with Transferwise. Well, to keep it short. For example, when transferring EUR 30.000, I pay DB a fixed commission of EUR 41,32, which is 0,138% of the transferred amount. If I were to do the same via Transferwise (today today) I would pay a commission (fees) of 0,62% to TFW.
With the additional disadvantage that my Euros are immediately converted to THB, at a fairly favorable exchange rate, I must admit, but if the Euros are deposited in Euros on your Thai bank account, you have plenty of time to wait until the Euro is noticeably stronger before switching to the THB. In times of an expensive THB, that is more favorable since one day sooner or later that THB has to fall again, that is simply history of exchange rates, up for a while… down for a while.
Now I think the difference in costs 0,138% compared to 0,62% is not negligible. In the case of EUR 30.000, that makes a net difference of EUR 144,60 plus the freedom to wait a bit before converting to THB, partially or for the entire amount.
Submitted by Roland
Roland,
Your comparison is like comparing apples to oranges.
Euros are of no use in Thailand. You will always have to change them. You are betting on a rising Euro against the Baht. You have a good moment there now, but in recent years it has only gotten worse. The vast majority of people who transfer money need it almost immediately. And this usually involves a much smaller amount than 30.000 euros.
For the mere mortals among us, a low commission and a very good rate is really all that matters. Speculating is an entirely different subject.
That's why you book them to Thailand anyway. already agree! You will eventually want to change your Euros; for that you book them over to Thailand anyway. Currently you get 35,40 baht for one euro at the Bangkok Bank; at Transderwise around 36 baht. That already saves 0,60 baht on one euro. You also pay costs when exchanging your euro account. If you take all this into account, so not just the transfer commission of the transfer from Europe, you will probably also end up with a cheaper price of 30.000 euros with Transferwise. The exchange rate difference alone already saves 18.000 baht.
If I wanted to wait for a favorable moment, I would leave my money safely in the Netherlands. I can still quickly transfer it at any convenient time.
Compared to Western Union, etc., Transferwise is cheaper and has better rates.
Maybe it's also because I don't work with tens of thousands of euros at the same time, but several hundred at a time.
Roland means that it is cheaper to hold a foreign currency account (FCA) with a Thai bank. He then transfers euros from his Belgian bank to that account. This will cost him 0,138% of the transferred amount. He then leaves those euros on that FCA until he believes that the Thai Baht has reached a sufficient level to exchange his euros. Roland then argues that this method is cheaper than depositing euros via Transferwise.
But I think that no one just sends euros to Thailand at any time if the exchange rate is not favourable, so opening an FCA for that reason does not seem necessary to me. I'll wait until the end of the year the price is fine. Besides, if Thailand doesn't sing a little lower, I won't send anything at all.
Roland forgets, without any nuance, to mention that holding a euro account in Thailand is not free, and that withdrawals and transfers from that account are subject to costs.
After withdrawing/exchanging euros a few times or making transfers in ThB, you will soon lose the 0,6% of the deposited amount in bank costs.
Calculate yourself from the following information sheets: https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Foreign-Customers
There is another nuance: you don't just deposit € 30 thousand to Thailand. What do you do with that money as an ordinary tourist? Are you with a retirement visa in Thailand with ThB800K in a bank, or ThB65K deposited monthly, then you're fine. You don't even get to eat that ThB65K every month. But do you have a company or the like in Thailand? Of course then you will look at other options than those via Transferwise. In short: for me TW is a praiseworthy nuanced alternative to my ordinary ING account!
@Josef,
Quite right.
A huge disadvantage of a euro account is that you have no choice where you can exchange it for baht, because the bank does not pay you a euro, so you are obliged to exchange it at that bank.
Now we all know that crying is over when you see the rate that the banks use.
So it's cheaper on all sides with Transfer Wise.
Greetings,
Louise
Now just wait and see if they let this reaction stand.
Yes Jozef I understand your reasoning, but first of all I am not a tourist in Thailand, I live here permanently until my death.
Moreover, in my case it is not the case that I have to pay extra costs at my Thai bank (UOB) to convert Euros. They even pay me a higher rate than "normal" as they label me as a good customer, don't want to use their "entitlement" (VIP) here as I'm not but you know the Thai right.
My personal reason for choosing this is also because I am old (71) and something can always happen (health) that you cannot control and then I have the reassurance that I have enough resources here.
But in hindsight I also understand that for people who only stay here temporarily or are much younger, this makes no sense.
Don't get me wrong, it is not my intention to break down TFW, I also had experience with it in the past.
Dear Roland, maybe next time I should state a position with a little more nuance. Nevertheless, it seems to me that you do not always transfer € 30K to Thailand for health reasons. It will stick to once or twice. Nice for you to be UOB-Vip, but that says nothing about TFW. All in all, nothing to worry about!
I don't think there are many people who often transfer 30.000 Euro to Thailand.
And if they do, they will probably not lose sleep over those few Euro difference in commission.
Have you ever noticed that there is a tipping point at a certain amount where banks are cheaper, but TW is mainly praised for low sums, and the "apparent" ease of shipment.
I will continue to trade through the banks, but I have not needed any transfers for 4 years due to cancellation of condo purchase planning.
And so no exchange disasters have to be endured, Bahs available for here in Thailand, and Euros arriving in Belgium, and staying there, that's fine!
In my opinion, the biggest advantage of TW is the speed, my last monthly transfer was completed within 5 seconds, the rate is always better than that of another bank!!
For (considerably) lower amounts, a percentage plus a small fee (the tfw commission) is cheaper than a flat fee. It is still wise to always check which method is the most advantageous for which amount. I think an additional advantage of tfw is the debit card to have on hand for emergencies. With that (free) card you can pay in shops and withdraw money from an ATM in the local currency.
If your euros are converted into Thai baht by TransferWise, it is cheaper.
If you transfer Euros to a Euro account, you will miss the exchange rate advantage.
Incidentally, the transferring bank charges costs for a Swift payment, and it seems to me that the receiving bank does the same, and if an intermediate bank is used, TransferWise does not seem that much less advantageous.
Tried it once.
An identical amount via Swift and TransferWise.
All costs included, TransferWise was 823 Baht cheaper on an amount of 1000 euros.
And much faster.
There will not be many expats in Thailand who regularly transfer 30000 euros. For many, that is a complete annual salary. I have no insight into the processing and costs of these types of amounts. Demonstrably for you via your own bank instead of Transferwise.
Every month I transfer an amount between 1000 and 1500 euros depending on the costs that I can expect in the coming month. The key question is why Transferwise??
Transferwise is transparent, you know what you get in your Thai bank account. Your transfer history from previous transfers is visible. You know when you can expect your money in Thailand at the latest.
I always book low cost and often before I close the site, I already receive a message from the BKK bank that my money is in my account there. This Friday afternoon 17hr25 I get 1000 euro low cost transfer credited to the BKK bank 35921 thb. Conclusion, tr.wise fast, insightful and good rate, low cost.
A SuperRich, TransferWise, etc. is usually not a bad option, but certainly not always or for everyone the best option. Always look around, people quickly follow a familiar name. And what is best for person A does not even have to apply to the situation of person B. Just check yourself, isn't it a small effort?
When switching, we keep seeing the name 'SuperRich' (where it seems as if many commenters don't know that a handful of companies have 'SuperRich' in their name), and competitors are mentioned less. Less known? Even if the competitor is often just that little bit better? (Think of Sia, Linda etc).
The same for transfers from EU to TH: TransferWise plus is very well known, the competitor is less mentioned. Think of an Azimo.
There are sites that compare bureaux de change, money transfer sites and so on. You can see with a few clicks what the best options are on that day, at that moment. Of course always check the website of the company itself to verify. Think of one http://www.thailandexchanges.com/ (exchange offices) or https://www.monito.com/send-money/netherlands/thailand/eur/thb/500 (Money transfer).
If you then enter some amounts, or look at the rules of the game, you will see that with lower amounts, an Azimo or TransferWise is a lot cheaper than an ordinary bank. But due to the minimum and maximum amount that many banks charge, that advantage will decrease with serious amounts. For example, if you transfer tens of thousands of euros. But what average private person does that? The average Thailand visitor transfers amounts of 500, 1000 or 2000 euros, not tens of thousands of euros. Then the difference is relatively cheap and nicely taken along for little effort. Then still: look around every now and then, due to competition and the size of the amount, it can pay off to work with another company. Don't blindly follow the name out of convenience or laziness like a tame sheep. Comparison at least once a year pays off.
Dear Roland, have been using TransferWise for years without problems and at a much cheaper rate than the regular banks because that is completely out of proportion, but your example of 30.000 euros is something that we ordinary people do not transfer weekly, and on that amount I find 144 euros also a piece of cake.
Other than that stay healthy everyone.
Yes, you are right, I wrote the text in a bit of a hurry, but in hindsight it might lead to some misunderstandings.
It is of course not the case that I transfer this amount several times a year.
Normally only once every 1-11 months.
Then I have a wide margin of funds should something happen (hospitalization etc.. etc..) and I would not be able to make a transfer.
But indeed this does not apply to everyone, I should have paid attention to that when writing my post.
I am already old and when the money is already in Thailand it gives me a calm feeling.
And it is also favorable in a rising Euro, hopefully it will continue to rise.
€ 41,32 fee for € 30.000 that's great, at TransferWise that would be about € 186, but no more costs, would you?
No, the bank here does not charge me any further costs when I convert part of the Euros to THB.
In addition, they give me a “good customer” rate for the Euros. Is not too bad.
I do not receive interest on that Euro account in Thailand, but they do give me annual interest on my US $ account.
When transferring large sums of money, such as your 30.000 euros, it may be more advantageous to do so through channels other than Transferwise. A comparison could possibly save money. But the vast majority of Transferwise users transfer significantly lower amounts to their own Thai bank account or that of their partner or family in Thailand and do not have a Euro account with the Thai bank. In addition, they will generally want immediate access to the transferred money and are not in a position to wait until the euro has strengthened against the baht.
Apart from comparing apples with oranges as others have pointed out, you can also store your euros at TW (apart from the fact whether that is wise with such amounts). Then you can convert your euros within TW to baht any time you want, so without transferring it to your Thai bank account, if you like the exchange rate. You can then transfer them to your Thai bank account whenever you want, or withdraw them directly (but then you pay the high fee at the ATM).
Dear Roland,
An eternal discussion about the pros and cons of Transferwise. If you really dive into it, you will soon see the hooks and eyes in the stories. Transferwise is simply an ideal way to transfer funds all over the world. Often there are objections such as: this is better or worse, bringing cash is better, branches are even mentioned where the money can be exchanged the cheapest in Thailand, other constructions or banks are better or worse, etc. It goes Ultimately, what you feel most comfortable with.
My experience with Transferwise is positive. If I don't understand something, I can just call or email them and I will always be helped and answered correctly. The product is clear and transparent and I think very affordable.
There are several measuring points that you should pay attention to specifically when sending funds to Thailand. How much does it cost to send your money to Thailand, how much does it cost to have a Thai account, how much does it cost to convert your euros into Thai Bath at your Thai bank, how much does it cost to withdraw your money from an ATM machine , how many costs are charged in Europe for this and how much do they charge in Europe for converting to Thai Bath and you can go on and on. These are often snapshots that you cannot even compare with each other.
Take your example. How many people are there who regularly send $30.000 to Thailand? If you mean Deutsche Bank by DB, then their rate list in Belgium states that the costs are €50 per transaction, so even if you only send €1.000! But then your money goes to Thailand and then it arrives in your own Thai bank account. Then you have to pay costs in Thailand for receiving foreign currency, if you subsequently exchange this currency in Thai Bath, you will receive a worse rate for it and the Thai bank will also benefit from it. Take a good look! I have years of experience with this, have worked at a bank myself and have accounts with various Thai banks for myself and for my partner.
At Transferwise I am a “customer” and I also have a debit card from Mastercard. From here (Europe) I can simply put money on that account, can also withdraw it or transfer it, and I can also pay everywhere with the debit card. I can also open a US account (and other currencies) with Transferwise, where my customers in the US can simply deposit Dollars and I can transfer to them. If there are not enough dollars in the account for a payment, Euros will be converted at the exchange rate applicable at that time and the associated costs. Anyway now Thai Bath. I put Euros on my account at Transferwise. The exchange rate is favorable or I need to transfer money urgently, then I instruct Transferwise to transfer it to my account in Thailand via the Thai Bath app. They transfer the money in Thai Bath from their Thai branch, so I don't have to pay any costs at my Thai bank that Euros came in or Thai Bath from Europe. The rate that Transferwise calculates is good and the costs are not too expensive in my opinion. To give you an example: I transferred € 12 to Thailand from my Transferwise account yesterday at approx. 2.000 noon. There was THB 71.892,83 in my Thai account this morning. Transferwise charged €13,95 in costs and used a rate of THB 36,1989 and that rate was guaranteed for 84 hours with the transaction. In this way I also have a Euro account, from which I can choose, at times that are favorable to me, when I exchange money into THB. NB also from my Dollar, Pound, etc. account with the same Transferwise.
Fast and cheap! That is why I like doing business with Transferwise. Anyone who feels more comfortable elsewhere, who thinks it is better and cheaper elsewhere or who prefers to travel through world history with bags of cash, I wish them a lot of fun with their choice.
NB2 The Transferwise account and debit card are free. The cheapest account at Deutsche Bank costs €12 per trimester and does not include a free debit card.
Dear Harry, as I responded just before, don't get me wrong.
TFW is indeed a good product in itself and I also have an account there but maybe I feel a bit scared to transfer large amounts through them as my TFW account was hacked about 18 months ago, luckily I had seen it in time .
So that also plays a role in my case.
But as you suggested in terms of cost, that is not the case in my case. My Euros are credited to my Thai EUR account (after 2 days) and I do not have to pay any costs here.
Similarly, if I convert part of the EUR to THB, I don't have to pay any fees to my bank and they pay me a better exchange rate because I'm a good customer with them.
But of course that should not be generalized, depends on case to case, Thailand right…
And withdrawing THB is free at my bank up to a number of withdrawals per month, after that 20 THB per withdrawal.
Roland,
Your statement reads: “Transferwise not as cheap as is always suggested”. That's quite a claim! Apart from the fact that this statement is incorrect, your further explanations are also incorrect in my opinion.
A bank makes its money, among other things, from the funds it manages and the service it provides to its customers. The “better” (read wealthier) the customer, the more they can earn. For example, you say that your €30.000 will be on the road in 2 days, that is already the first revenue model, they will already earn from your money for those 2 days. The country where your money comes from seems to be Belgium, where you bank with Deutsche Bank, where you apparently have to pay for your bank account, but not in Thailand. Thais love Thai food and want to earn money from “farrang”. Now you say here that those "few" cents that you send to Thailand every year are reason enough to be seen as a VIP there, so that you do not have to pay for your bill there and that you also get paid a much higher rate if other customers. How does this bank make its money? Regardless of the fact, you write that you also have an account in dollars at the same bank. Do you also have an income in dollars or do you first have to exchange it from the euro? That would be very expensive. Elsewhere you write that you do not have to pay VAT in Belgium on the deposit costs to Thailand. You pay (you say) €41,32, the actual costs are €50 at Deutsche Bank. Ex VAT that is €39,50 and not €41,32. Apart from the fact that VAT is paid to the government, so does the government give you a discount? Or can you deposit “black” at Deutsche Bank? Or do you still have a company here where you can deduct the private costs for transferring your funds? Then you tell them that you can withdraw your card at an ATM "for free" a few times a month, after which you pay THB 20 each time. I can always withdraw for free in the region where I closed my Thai account, but outside the region it indeed costs THB 20 per time. That's not a privilege, it's always that way. You further write that you also have an account with Transferwise. If you ever chose that (I assume after thorough investigation) I wonder why you now come up with this statement? If you already doubt the Transferwise brand, why do you still have that account? You write that your account has already been hacked, so you don't dare send large amounts. If Transferwise solved that “hack” neatly and correctly for you, that would be a reason to always work with them from now on.
I could go on and on, but I think I've made my statement. Apart from the fact that I see many responses to you that imply the same thing. I hope your next statement (should there be one) is more nuanced and well substantiated. Success with it.
Dear Harry,
Yes I made a posting about my experience with TfW which I actually regret already.
I don't understand why you react so aggressively, I'm not used to it, especially I'm not a quarrelsome person either.
If you still want to pin down a few details, well, that 41,32 € is what I paid last time at the end of 2019. Soon I will see what the costs are now, maybe that has changed some, so what.
I was talking about VAT but could also be a discount, I didn't check especially.
Another petty detail, yes indeed in my region of Bangkok I never pay any costs for ATM withdrawals, only outside the region.
When I talked about those € 30.000 (once a year) then those Euros are indeed on my account here the 2nd day, what's wrong with that? Money doesn't bring interest anyway these days.
As for the US$ bill, there is a simple explanation for that. Coincidentally, I'm also a bit active in the stock market and in New York it's in dollars. As a result, stocks pay dividends and these are of course paid to me in dollars. So I own dollars and I can transfer them to Thailand on my Thai US$ account. Is there something wrong with that?
I have no business at my blessed age, let it out, neither here nor elsewhere in the world.
And I don't have black money either, don't see what that would have to do with this.
Are you now sufficiently informed?
And finally, what would I have against TfW? Nothing at all, they are a very good player in the industry of the people it benefits. So?
After that hacking (which I posted about at the time, by the way) TfW did indeed solve this neatly, canceled my old account and created a new one. There is no problem there, but I may wrongly still have a little fear, that's why.
By "nuance" I actually meant that there are many different profiles of customers and not just the people who transfer a smaller amount every month, but that doesn't seem to have come across well. That is also quite normal for the people who only come here on holiday and do not live here full-time. But even then everyone is free to find what they like.
Dear Harry, that aggressive tone was really unnecessary, don't feel attacked.
Roland all very nice as you describe it but do not mention that the costs are of a Euro account at a Thai bank.
You pay costs twice if it is not immediately converted into Baht.
realist
To all who have responded, I repeat here what I have already said individually here and there.
I admit that in hindsight I should have framed my post a bit more, my apologies for that.
Still this, I don't have to pay any expenses at my Thai bank when converting EUR to THB.
In addition, I get a more favorable exchange rate because of being a good customer, but that does not only apply to me of course.
And I do not have to pay VAT on the costs that I pay at my Belgian bank, since I have been deregistered in Belgium.
I emphasize that TfW is also a good product for people who use it regularly and for not too high amounts.
But to be honest, it scares me a little or large amounts to transfer via TfW since my tfw account has already been hacked once, fortunately without serious consequences.
But I thought my method was best if you want to transfer relatively large amounts in one go in a safe way and especially if the EUR is very low and you can wait to withdraw the money.
It also gives me peace of mind that I have a large reserve in Thailand in case I would no longer be able to carry out transfers for medical or other reasons.
And so I calmly wait for the right moment to switch to THB.
If the THB is very low, it would of course make less sense because then it can only rise and you have to respond more quickly.
Dear,
You assume that you have a DB account.
Not everyone – I would even estimate a minority – has an account with DB.
So that is point one in this statement.
TransferWise of course works over DB and remains a better solution for the majority of European citizens to make transfers at a good exchange rate.
DB as your house bank is a choice that you make yourself. Good or less good is also a matter of how you feel about it.
TransferWise remains a better solution for all those people who do not want or have DB as their main bank>
Transferwise is ideal for smaller amounts in my opinion.
My wife sends money to her bank account in Thailand this way every month.
Her bank card is in Thailand and her mother can withdraw money at the ATM.
The money is also transferred quickly, which makes it easy if something unexpected happens
what needs to be sent extra (washing machine, refrigerator broken or moped repair or so).
When we are on vacation in Thailand, we can also quickly deposit our money into her bank account and
this without all the extra costs (worse exchange rate, surcharge per transaction, etc.).
It's nice that the current exchange rate is maintained, and we don't have to worry
whether we have enough money with us or whether we have exchanged it (my wife's ATM/Bank is also 30 km away).
As a result, we hardly ever take cash with us (little bit as extra on hand) and that also makes a difference and that makes a difference in the exchange rate used by the offices (usually we take the extra euros we brought home with us).
For these kinds of things it is a godsend for us and we save quite a bit of money over the years.
Dear Maurice, in your case I completely agree that TransferWise is the ideal solution.
It is convenient and fast and offers you a very good (best) exchange rate.
But as I mentioned, I myself am in a situation here (am old and will live here for the rest of my life) that it offers a better solution for me not to trade through TfW for larger amounts.
For the rest, no problem with TfW.
Take the exchange rate difference for the actual costs, transferwise takes the values as we know them from the "stock exchange", there are no hidden costs as with 99% of the banks.
Add this and see who is cheaper, I'm curious.
LS
I think Transferwise is a great company to transfer money .
Transferred an amount this week and it was in my account in Thailand in 7 seconds.
Never happened before.
Please note that you do not transfer during the weekend, then it will indeed take longer.
For every 1000 euros they charge 7.20
But for example 10000 euros you would have to pay 72 euros, but that is 60 euros!
So the more you transfer, the cheaper it becomes.
But always keep it below 10000 because then the tax authorities will not be watching!!!
Not interesting to them !!!
Free tips
regards rob
Dag,
A few months ago I transferred 300 EURO via TW to my girlfriend in Cambodia for the first time.
I thought it was said to be fast and cheap.
The transfer was made from my Belfius account to her account at the ABA bank.
TW did not charge any costs for the first time.
BUT… after a good soak my Cambodian beauty said she only got 268 USD in her account. I furiously contacted TW via email and I got the answer that the transfer was done via SWIFT and that they did not know how much and who the intermediary bank was.
Talk about a good organization !!!
Last week I sent her again 300 EURO through my Argenta bank for which I pay € 15 costs and she received 5 USD on her account after 328 days!
So I don't understand TW at all!! Cheap and fast… yes damn it must be!
Serge