Reader submission: A quick response from ABN-AMRO?
Shortly after my response to Thailandblog about the situation with ABN AMRO, the following email arrived. I have yet to study it, but it seems on a cursory reading that they haven't gone into some things.
Subject: Your complaint about the country policy Dear Mr. XXX,
You wrote us a letter on 30 June 2018. In your letter you object to the Bank's decision to part ways with you. It concerns the Bank's decision to say goodbye to customers who live in Thailand, among others.
We have decided not to deviate from the position taken earlier. In this letter we give our explanation. What is your complaint? In your letter you indicate that you have the strong impression that ABN AMRO Bank does have banking licenses for banking outside Europe. You have this impression because an exception is made for expats and for clients who still have a "product" running. Finally, you would like to see a substantiated legal definition of the concept of housing. You indicate that you have emigrated from the Netherlands, but that you have not immigrated to Thailand. You see yourself as temporarily residing in Thailand. What is the Bank's position?
On 26 June 2018, you were confronted by telephone with ABN AMRO Bank's country policy. After this telephone consultation, you also received an e-mail confirming this meeting. The International Clients Retail department has expressed the bank's position with regard to terminating the banking relationship with customers outside the EU. We endorse the position taken and cannot make an exception for you. For the bank, the definition of an expat is no different from the general definition of an expat. An expat is a person who temporarily lives and works in a country. An expat is therefore different from an immigrant. An immigrant moves to another country to build a new life there. You have not indicated to us that you are temporarily staying in Thailand.
You can indicate your temporary stay abroad by means of a completed expat statement. We have not received such a statement from you, which means that we are going to say goodbye to you as a customer. What does this mean for you?
With us you have a Savings Deposit with a fixed term and a fixed interest rate. You cannot close this savings account yourself. We will do this for you no later than 7 months after 3 July 2018. You will receive the balance and interest on the checking account that is linked to your savings account. On top of the accrued interest, you will also receive the interest that you would still receive until the end of the term. Would you like to check whether your payment account is correct in Internet Banking? You may change this contra account within 5 months via the Cancellation Form. In the unlikely event that your contra account is incorrect, we will transfer the money to an ABN AMRO suspense account. NB! You will not receive any interest on this.
On January 1, 2019 we will say goodbye to you as a customer. Your Savings Deposit account will be terminated by the end of January 2019 at the latest. Your payment account is always the last to be closed. If your contra account number is not known to us at the time of cancellation, the money will be transferred to an interim account of the bank. You can then contact the bank and we will transfer the money to the account you specify. The money, of course, remains yours.
Laws and regulations
We would like to explain on the basis of which laws and regulations the Bank has decided to adjust its policy. As the bank has indicated before, it is becoming increasingly difficult, riskier and more expensive for the bank to provide services outside Europe. This is partly due to increasing legislation and regulations on financial products and services in this area. The bank must comply with the laws and regulations of the country where the customer lives, as well as with the Dutch law to prevent money laundering and financing of terrorism (hereinafter: Wwft). Below we will discuss the different types of regulations in more detail. In addition to a policy choice, the amended policy for non-residents is based on two pillars:
(1) what may be offered on the basis of local laws and regulations in a country and (2) which Wwft obligations does the Bank have to comply with as a result of the fact that the customer lives in a certain country? Based on the above, we have formulated a new policy. Unfortunately, this has meant that we have to say goodbye to certain customers.
Naturally, we have assessed whether the policy change does not lead to unjustified consequences for the relevant customers. This has also happened in your case and the Bank has come to the conclusion that this is not the case. If the Bank provides services to clients outside the Netherlands, it must comply with local laws and regulations. This is no different if, for example, a Thai bank wants to offer services in the Netherlands. Pursuant to Section 2:11 of the Wft, it is prohibited to carry on the business of a bank in the Netherlands without a license from the ECB. Pursuant to Section 2:11 of the Wft, a Thai bank – which has a license in Thailand – may therefore not automatically provide services in the Netherlands.
The same applies to the Bank, it must investigate per country where the Bank's customers live, whether it is allowed to provide services to the resident of that country without a license in the country in question. Laws and regulations (continued) This is not a problem at all for customers who live within the EEA, because the Bank has a European Passport. With this European Passport, it is allowed to provide cross-border services within the EEA on the basis of its license granted in the Netherlands. For customers who live outside the EEA, it must be checked per country whether or not services may be provided. Local laws and regulations are important for this. Apart from the question of whether or not the Bank may offer services without a license in certain jurisdictions, in particular outside the EEA, local rules of conduct may also apply, whether or not of a mandatory nature. The Bank must also comply with this.
Insufficient familiarity with these local rules entails risks for the Bank. Also because acquiring sufficient knowledge about the application of local rules entails the necessary costs for the Bank. This aspect also plays a role in the non-resident policy formulated by the Bank. Based on information and advice that the Bank has received from (reputable) external consultants and law firms about applicable local laws and regulations, it appears that it is (no longer) possible to offer cross-border banking to residents of Thailand without license or physical presence in Thailand.
In the advice received by the Bank, a distinction is made between the following types of services: (1) the customer who lives in Thailand travels to a bank branch in the Netherlands, (2) cross-border services, where the bank employee is in the Netherlands and the customer in Thailand, for example via email or telephone (3) bank employee travels to Thailand to meet the customer in Thailand. For each type of service, it is indicated whether these banking services or financial products may be provided in the relevant country, in this Thailand file. For Thailand, cross-border banking has all the above categories scored red. This means that it is not possible to perform these services without a license or physical presence in Thailand.
Pursuant to Section 3 of the Wwft, the Bank must conduct a customer due diligence to prevent money laundering and terrorist financing. If there is a higher risk, the Bank must conduct an additional customer due diligence pursuant to Article 8 of the Wwft. The starting point here is that the Bank must carry out its own risk analysis in order to assess which types of customers, services and transactions entail a higher risk of money laundering or terrorist financing. The Bank is obliged to determine which countries pose an increased risk, making use of publications from the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), among other things. In addition, the Bank uses the following sources, among others, to determine whether there is an increased risk in a particular country: External sources Basel Committee on banking supervision/Bank for International Settlements The Wolfsberg group of banks Council of Europe Dutch legislation (Wft/Wwft) Supervisors (DNB, ECB and others such as BaFin and FCA) OECD common reporting standards IHS (Information handling service, maps financial crime risks) Internal sources Client Acceptance and Anti-Money Laundering (CAAML ) policies
Based on the above sources, each country receives a specific quantitative score. In addition, the Bank's Compliance and Security & Intelligence Management departments, among others, also make a qualitative assessment. Based on the qualitative and quantitative risk score, the risk is ultimately determined per country. Based on the risk analysis made by the Bank, Thailand, in the Bank's estimation, qualifies as a country with an increased risk, which requires the Bank to conduct additional customer due diligence. This leads to high costs for the Bank and for that reason the Bank has decided to adjust its policy.
For the rest, we refer to Article 35 of the General Terms and Conditions of ABN AMRO Bank NV. This stipulates that the bank has the right to terminate the relationship, stating the reason if requested. All this does not detract from the fact that ABN AMRO understands that the policy change is annoying for the customers affected. Especially for customers who have been banking with us for so long. However, the bank does not make any exceptions in this regard, so not for you either. However, the bank is always prepared to provide practical assistance in completing banking matters.
Conclusion
We understand that our policy change has an impact on you. However, the bank will stick to its policy and unfortunately cannot make an exception for you. For practical questions about the settlement, we refer you to our International Clients Retail department. Sincerely, ABN AMRO Bank NV
Submitted by Ruud
Hi Ruud,
have searched nav canceling ICS-VISA credit card (subsidiary ABN AMRO). http://www.kifid.nl ABN AMRO decision. The Rulings Register contains the Ruling Disputes Committee for Financial Services no. 2018-281. Date of decision 2 May 2018 and nature of decision binding advice. Apparently ABN AMRO only has a license from a European bank to arrange banking affairs for people living within the EU.
They suggest that, but the bank does not say so, and in their opinion this is not true.
After all, how could they bank for expats if they don't have those permits?
It also says in the letter that they don't make exceptions for ME, which is different than they can't make exceptions (I didn't ask for that, by the way).
And if you can make an exception for 1 person, you can also do so for 15.000 people.
So it's a matter of not wanting to.
So I also have some doubts about that statement of the Kifid.
The fact that reference is made to country policy also indicates that it is about policy.
Incidentally, I still don't get a clear answer to the question why they think they can unilaterally cancel the contract of my 10-year deposit.
A contract has two parties.
The fact that they indicate that they will pay the interest over the full term is not an argument in my opinion.
I also don't have an answer yet about the statement that I don't live in Thailand, but stay there (temporarily).
It should be clear that at least the Thai government believes that I do not live in Thailand.
Your extension of STAY is based on a NON-IMMIGRANT (you are not an immigrant) visa.
And if you forget to renew your extension on time, you will be arrested, taken to court and deported.
That's not quite what I understand by the term "living".
Moreover, I have not yet succeeded in finding out the definition of the term “housing” as referred to in the law cited.
The people who voted on that law in the chamber have no idea either.
The best answer I've gotten is: that should probably be investigated.
This in turn means that the bank sends people away, without knowing whether they fall under the relevant law.
By the way, I read in the letter that something has changed since the first letter.
Where the ABNAMRO would first block your money, they now send the money unsolicited to a known contra account.
Apparently they forgot to communicate that.
Dear Ruud,
ABN-AMRO's decision and argument has many sides that lead to discussions. The most important is the legal side of the story, the duty to investigate and the cost aspect. From ABN-AMRO's point of view, the ultimate cost aspect is apparently decisive. Every bank, ABN-AMRO not excluded, applies conditions that offer the bank the option of terminating an agreement. As a customer you have agreed to this, so don't complain. Nevertheless, ABN-AMRO has been very lenient with regard to your deposit by paying out the interest in full over the entire term, while the money is available to you sooner. Apparently ABN-AMRO's decision does not suit you, but the bank cannot set a precedent, because then everyone can appeal to it.
With regard to the definition of housing, I note the following. For the concept of housing, the Housing Act in the Netherlands is based on living as used in normal parlance. In other words, according to a fixed pattern with a normal rental contract by a household for a longer period of time, in which the core of social life takes place in this home. The Tax and Customs Administration also uses this definition. Especially the concept of “the core of social life” always plays a role.
An expat is known in advance that his stay is of a temporary nature. If the stay is not of a temporary nature, then it is not an expat. This will be noted on his or her temporary departure from the Netherlands. Most government services then take the temporary nature into account. You just moved to Thailand permanently. Whether or not you call it immigration is irrelevant. You have permanently deregistered yourself as a resident in the Netherlands. Where you go then is not important to the bank, unless you stay within the EU.
Yours faithfully,
French Nico.
It is not important what the housing law says.
It's not about living abroad.
Your reasoning about expatriate is not correct.
The question is not whether I am an expat, but whether I live in Thailand.
To the Thai government, I am definitely not a resident of Thailand.
This is for reasons I have already stated.
Whether I am a resident of Thailand for money laundering purposes is another question.
That has yet to be answered.
Whether, given ABNAMRO's very generous attitude, for the right to close my deposit of 0,8% per annum is of course the question.
If there was 100.000 euros on the deposit I would agree, but in this case I prefer to keep my deposit.
I'm not sure what exactly is in my contract with the bank.
I'll read that if it matters.
For the time being, the bank has not yet invoked such an article.
Incidentally, I think it's something to cry if it turns out that you as a customer of any bank have no rights whatsoever.
Then you can no longer talk about making choices.
Whether I have immigrated to Thailand is exactly what everything DOES revolve around.
If I didn't immigrate there, I don't live there.
@David: those permits do exist, because they can bank for expats.
They couldn't do that without those permits.
@Sjaak S: send my money to a country where a junta is in power?
I do not think so.
@Kees2: opening an account in the Netherlands from Thailand is not possible.
@Riaz: there are quite a few options to open an account, but then you have to have money at your disposal.
Or did someone think that if the Heineken family decides to live in Thailand, the bank will tell them to close their account?
With only an AOW there are probably no more options.
@Richard: I'm not creating a strange situation.
The laws create that situation.
What applies to me, applies to most other Dutch people in Thailand.
I have no idea about other countries, it will depend on their laws.
Hello Ruud,
We have now received the following “substantiation” from ICS:
“This is our response to your question about a substantiation of the changed country policy.
As a result of an increasing amount and complexity of foreign laws and regulations, ICS has decided to offer its services in fewer countries. More rules apply to be able to offer our services abroad and it entails more and more risk. The costs for this are therefore getting higher and higher. ICS has therefore decided to focus mainly on the European market.
We trust to have informed you sufficiently.”
Yours faithfully,
International Card Services BV
See also my reply at 10.39:XNUMX am. ICS simply has to follow ABN AMRO rules. Incidentally, World Card may be removed.
Hi Ruud.
Nice story from their side, but the real reason that people stop outside the EU is.
ABN-AMRO does not have the correct permits to bank outside the EU.
They are all allowed to operate as a bank within the EU.
But ABN-AMRO makes it appear that the EU has to.
No, the bank had not done its homework properly and we have now fallen victim to that.
It is not very nice that the bank tries to pass on its mistakes to an EU decision.
ABN-AMRO shame on you Spreading this lie, tell that you made a mistake.
You know it's a lie just as quickly as the truth catches up with it.
Greetings David
I think you are an emigrant for the Netherlands (and therefore ABN-AMRO).
To Thailand you are an immigrant.
Unless you intend to continue to live in Thailand until your (natural) 100% certainty, I would simply fill in such an expat statement (is there anything special in it that you should speak untruth?).
After all, it is about an uncertain future event.
A bit of pragmatic thinking, I would say: if it can't be done the way it should be, then it should be done the way it can be.
Isn't it true that for Thailand you are a NON immigrant? Most of them do not have a permanent residence permit in Thailand and therefore only stay in Thailand temporarily.
https://www.abnamro.nl/nl/prive/expats/index.html
The letter from ABNAMRO contains the definition of expat: living and working.
I left working in the Netherlands when I emigrated, so I am not an expat for the ABNAMRO.
There are also other definitions of expat.
I am an emigrant from the Netherlands.
But in Thailand I am not an immigrant.
See my earlier response.
@Wim: I wouldn't leave my wife for it.
If I lose the battle, it's no different.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't do anything.
And as said before, I'm not just concerned about myself, I'm concerned about the older people who live here - and elsewhere - who can no longer easily defend themselves.
Can you expect an 80-year-old with a small pension in Thailand to still be able to oppose an ABNAMRO?
A single maybe.
There are a number of points on which I feel I am strong.
1 Violation of the code of conduct for banks article 2. (the interest of the customer comes first)
2 A 10-year contract for a deposit.
3 A definition of the concept of housing for the purposes of the Money Laundering Act.
4 The “good” name of the bank.
The bank talks about 15.000 customers having to leave.
Those customers have family and friends.
They will all hear the complaints that they are being unceremoniously evicted by the bank.
As a conservative estimate, I use 20 people per customer.
So you are talking about 300.000 people, who will probably not choose ABNAMRO when they are looking for a bank.
I'm not even talking about any contacts via social media.
I don't do social media myself, so I have no idea what's going on there.
It therefore seems to me that the bank has every interest in handling matters properly. (something they should have done right away: help people switch)
If things really get out of hand, the fire will be very difficult to extinguish and the bank will again be placed under guardianship.
I don't know if the bank realizes that.
I have the feeling that the bank still considers itself an indispensable system bank.
However, the customer base is largely based on the large branch network of the past.
However, that branch network no longer exists, and for new bank customers, ABNAMRO is just one of many banks in a long line on the Internet.
There is no reason why anyone should choose ABNAMRO over any other bank in that row.
They don't even have a hip name that appeals to the young.
Their only advantage is the fact that their name starts with an A, so they are usually at the top.
The foreign (security) policy of the USA, under the Trump administration, is increasingly making itself felt. Non-US citizens can do little to change that, not even Belgians or Dutch 🙂 We all experience the negative consequences of it. The degree of freedom we enjoyed is being restricted. Even our right to property is being affected. And no one seems to care???
I experienced it in a different way: After a bank transfer of a large amount (+ 2 million baht) from a Belgian to Thai bank account, it was not booked there. Inquiries at the Belgian bank showed that they had executed the transaction correctly. I heard by phone from the Thai bank that I had to sign a pill of documents for a + 2 million baht amount to declare the money Wwft proof. Fortunately, I flew back to Thailand a month later, where I was able to sign those pill documents at the bank. The money remained blocked for a month and the transaction (purchase) for which it was intended I was fortunately able, with a lot of goodwill from the seller, to adjourn until I had signed that pill of documents on the spot.
Welcome to the American dream 🙂
Hi Ruud,
Thanks for this detailed entry.
In any case, now a more or less clear explanation based on a number of things why they cancel the account. Following that also ICS.
Not that it matters what you do, there's no point in trying to change anything.
ABN / AMRO says clearly that they have adjusted their policy. They really aren't going to change that.
And as mentioned earlier by other responders, the question is how long it will take before other NL banks do the same as ABN / AMRO. I personally don't think that long as it seems to be a choice of no permits and related costs. I think that will also apply to the other NL banks.
We can all be disappointed about this, and I say it nicely, but it won't change anything. Despite all the miserable situations that will arise.
Never forget that it has finally become clear that the bank is not there for you, but you for the bank.
And if you don't matter to the bank anymore, it's fly mountain.
Nothing negative about your efforts, absolutely not because I understand your frustration, and mine too.
In any case, you have made it clear to the readers what ABN / AMRO thinks about it through your submission, and that is to be commended. That is very important and a lot of people can learn from it.
Sounds dramatic, but it's not, but I really intend to leave Thailand because of this kind of hassle and the consequences. But the bank / ICS really won't care because it will really be my problem and that of my legal wife who will stay behind in Thailand.
Groet
Dear Wim, what I do not understand has been told to you by this hassle and its consequences that you intend to leave Thailand.
Tell why.
Thailand also has banks , so why not transfer your savings here .
After all , you live here too .
If you are afraid of losing money because of the exchange rate , open an FCD account in EUR and only exchange when the exchange rate is favorable .
By the way, I read this week on the website of the consumer association that at all banks in the Netherlands except ING, people like in our situation in the Netherlands can no longer open an account.
And what about Belgium , are there Belgian bloggers who can tell you that it is just as ridiculous for them as it is for the Dutch banks and the AMRO .
Looking forward to their responses.
Jan Beute.
After reading the previous entries at the end of 2016 on this blog regarding ABN-AMRO, I asked SNS what they (will) do.
The answer was:
“I have inquired for you. To date nothing is known about this. Keep up to date with current events.”
This was December 2016 so already 1.5 years ago.
I am slowly starting to get the feeling that, for example, SNS will also do this.
I have an ICS credit card that will now be canceled per 22-10-2018.
Because I fly regularly (not to NL) I needed that credit card to book online.
So that will no longer be the case. Paypal is an unknown method to pay with airlines. I have checked several but Paypal is not possible.
You can pay for domestic flights at 7/11, which my wife regularly does. Very easy.
So apparently I can only pay in cash, but with EVA air, for example, this is only possible in Bangkok, which is 600 km away.
So to Bangkok, book and pay in cash, back home and then back to Bangkok to fly. That's going to be a hassle a few times a year.
If others have a better idea, I'd be happy to read it.
Before people start shouting that theirs is different, remember as everyone knows that every bank branch has different ideas and even within the branch where you are.
I made inquiries in Ubon Ratchathani at the head office of both SCB and Bangkok Bank about transferring money back to the Netherlands.
Visited a few branches, all of which refer to the head office for refunds to NL.
The answer from both banks was that it was only possible for holders with a work permit or who have a business and not for a NON-immigrant.
I find that strange and it seems that my money is more or less in receivership.
That's why I don't bring savings from NL to here because it seems that I can't transfer it back to NL.
Wouldn't surprise me if there are people in Ubon Ratchathani who can book back to NL on a Non-immigrant visa at the same banks.
I also asked those 2 banks for an FCD account.
SCB: not possible, not now and not ever without asking if I had a work permit, for example.
Bangkok Bank: No, then maybe, not yet, we'll find out, no, but try again next year.
So I have nothing to do and I actually have no need for an FCD account because I am not concerned with exchange rate losses.
No longer having a Visa card is therefore already very difficult, but if, for example, SNS also cancels accounts, I no longer have a bank and then it becomes very complicated to pay obligations in, for example, NL if you cannot refund.
That's why I'm thinking about returning to somewhere in the EU.
Dear Wim, apply for a Visa card at your Thai bank, I am at the Krungsri bank and just have a Visa card from the bank. And if you are planning to move to the Netherlands soon, switch from SNS to ING because there you can simply open an account and it does not matter where you live.
Kind regards, Pim
Hi Pim,
Thank you for your message.
Look, I have something to do with that.
Going to try both of your tips and will let you know on this blog.
Might take a while though 🙂
And you can also open an FCD account at the Krungsri, I have had it for years.
And after the cancellation of the ICS CC , I also went to the Krungsri again and received a visa card in no time .
You do have to deposit money into an account and you can withdraw 80% with the card from the balance on your account.
I have been a customer of the Krungsri for years and for me it is the number 1 bank in Thailand.
Jan Beute.
Answer to your question how things are going in Belgium
Well I can only report that I have had no problem at all with my 2 existing Belgian banks to change my Belgian address when deregistering to Thailand as an existing customer, except that it did not fully fit their existing computer layout (just send an email with correct full address to them to put in their files the old fashioned way)
The banks concerned are Axa bank and KeytradeBank (the latter is an online bank with only 1 office in Brussels for a personal counter)
PS: I did have a question about a certain code number from both, but I reported via reply that Thailand is not part of the OECD treaty, when they checked it, it was ok for them, this for money laundering laws, etc.
The e-mail from ABN Amro with so-called "information" is a generally meaningless fungal story.
That the bank would not be familiar with the banking rules in Thailand is not credible, since the bank has had offices in Thailand for decades.
Gerrit Zalm and his successor Mr. Dijkhuizen have turned a bank that was once a world player into an incompetent village office.
Don't forget Rijkman Groenink in this context! It led the bank straight to the abyss. After which his successors were allowed to try to clear the rubble.
you are lucky you can keep your money from the ABN-AMRO bank
I think you can simply keep the ABNAMRO credit card by taking another Dutch bank as a contra account. There are banks that are less strict than the abnamro.
Not true if you are talking about the VISA card from ICS
My contra account of the ICS VISA card is from SNS.
Have asked SNS if they can provide a credit card.
No, because according to SNS:
“From this year, our customers can only apply for a credit card via ICS. This party also manages the credit cards. SNS has no say in this.”
It is strange that ABN / AMRO apparently has (obtained) the exclusive right to provide a VISA credit card.
Let's just say that SNS made a mistake to your detriment because they have apparently entrusted the exclusive right to ICS.
Dear Ruud,
I strongly sympathize with your motivations for the concept of “housing” but I am afraid it will not change anything.
What I would like to add/emphasize is that Thai law may be relevant here.
I read in the letter:
“The same applies to the Bank, it must investigate per country where the Bank's customers live, whether it is allowed to provide services to residents of that country without a license in the country in question.”
The first step should be to provide a precise, legal definition of who is considered “resident” under Thai law. That description is missing.
We live in Thailand, ie we stay in a house here. And you can say that we emigrated from NL, but with our “non-immigrant” status, it is far from certain whether Thai law considers us “resident”.
If that were indeed the case, the Bank would therefore not provide services to residents of Thailand. And this objection would therefore not make sense.
Perhaps Mr. Tino Kuis could delve into Thai law?
We are tourists for the Thai tax authorities, including the law. A tourist can therefore be deported from the country without giving reasons, which has also happened several times in the years that I have been “staying” here. Visa means nothing because that is not a residence permit.
Tiresome just that name already ABN-AMRO is already spiritual inbreeding tied to locations.
Why is Thailand a risk country.
Is the AMRO bank not a risk bank ?
Wasn't it this bank that went to pieces 10 years ago, thanks to the then manager Rijkmangroenink.
Fortunately, there were two Dutchmen who then dragged the couch away from the gates of Hell.
Jan Peter and Wouter .
If this rescue had failed, many customers would have lost a lot of savings.
While googling this week I came across a lot of information about this case.
In total, only around 25% of the 15000 customers living permanently abroad were Dutch citizens.
I came across another spontaneous response from a Mrs and it read .
A good move, unclear figures, tax refugees, Thailandgoers sex, Philipino child sex
Benefit recipients , unprofitable retirement box ( 36 euros from the metal fund ) .
Wanted persons, vagabonds.
It seems to me to be a sort of clean-up of the customer base at the AMRO.
So you can see how some people think about us who live here permanently in Thailand.
Jan Beute.
I seem to remember that Wouter had forgotten to include control over the bank in the purchase contract.
That cost another 5 billion extra if I remember correctly.
Money we never saw again.
That disappeared from the news remarkably quickly, and you don't hear anything about it anymore.
@George: The bank also said they couldn't make an exception for ME.
It was therefore clear that exceptions were possible for others.
It will come as no surprise to anyone that these apparently concern wealthy people.
Of course, those are also the people who are unlikely to launder.
You have to look for the people who launder among the people with an AOW and maybe even a small pension.
What a whinge. The bank says it is too expensive and that they do not have the necessary permits and do not want them.
They write about you because you are concerned and not your neighbor.
Just because they can't make an exception for you doesn't automatically mean they will for others. That's your interpretation.
Also, the bank says they have the right to unilaterally cancel a contract, you signed for that and probably (like most and me too) didn't read all the details in the contract.
Just do as most recommend: have your money sent to your account in Thailand. You can and there is nothing wrong with that, except that you may be a little less flexible. Should you have to travel to the Netherlands, you can also withdraw money from Dutch ATMs with your Thai Bank Card…
But wealthy Dutch people in Thailand can safely bank with ABN AMRO.
https://www.abnamro.nl/nl/mobile/privatebanking/uw-situatie/international/index.html
@george, I only see European countries listed in that link from Mees Pierson. Which, given their license for ABN AMRO, is no problem either. As they write in their message to Ruud.
Read carefully and you will see that they offer 'worldwide' access, no restrictions. The only 'restriction' to enjoy this service is that you have freely investable assets of at least one million euros.
That undermines all arguments in the email. Bullshit story from the bank.
Hi Ruud, I understand your frustration, but you will receive a few years interest as a gift. Switch to ING and you have a bank account that is not canceled and that has more than with ABNAMRO (ie with the interest received as a gift). Count out your profit!
Hello. Are there any known parties that can offer the banking service to people who live outside the EU? I can't get it clear where this group can bank? I understood from ING that it was impossible to facilitate an account outside Europe. Are there still alternatives?
Ruud, you're nagging a bit. Just open an account with revolut bv and apply for a card there. Or simply register in the Netherlands and then you can keep your bank account. You create a strange situation yourself by not being registered anywhere. Then you shouldn't beep if you experience some difficulties.
Richard
You cannot (may not!) be registered in the Netherlands if you stay outside the Netherlands for longer than a total of 8 months in a period of 365 days. BRP Act…
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/privacy-en-persoonsgegevens/vraag-en-antwoord/uitschrijven-basisregistratie-personen
To what extent can ING mean anything?
This bank has offices in Thailand.
Maybe someone has experience with this?
What a drama!!! It seems clear to me that the abn amro does not care where you live, if you are registered in the Netherlands and do not live in the EU, you fall outside the boat. How Thailand thinks about this does not matter to the abn.
But what if you do have a company in NL? But then you are also liable to pay tax in NL and so you must have a bank account there?
I also had a problem with a previous bank, generally they are an arrogant mess.
Just find someone else and life goes on!!
Fighting the wasteland? Not me, I thank you for that.
Am I the only one who noticed that the bank asks you to REQUEST them to close the account?
What I do not understand.
ABN-AMRO will continue to provide its banking services for expats. Even if you live and possibly work in Thailand. What is the difference in regulations, risks and costs?
I think it's just a different name. Immigrant (permanent residence) or Expat (temporary residence). Expats often stay outside the Netherlands for many years.
I really don't see the difference.
The English-language expat page of ABN-AMRO states the following:
“Managing your banking abroad
If you live or work abroad, or are about to do so, you want to be able to manage your banking effectively. That's where the ABN AMRO International Clients team comes in – they offer special financial services for clients who live or work outside of the Netherlands. ”
Note the description: live or work.
You are all Expats. Immigrating to Thailand is virtually impossible. So register with ABN-AMRO as an expat.