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Home » Reader Submission » Reader submission: Belgium simplified tax return for pensioners
Tax form only exceptionally on paper to pensioner.
“With a few exceptions, pensioners will no longer receive their tax forms on paper. After all, the Pension Service will send the pension amounts directly to the FPS Finance, so that the data is already entered in Myminfin, Tax-On-Web and in the simplified declaration proposals. This is reported by the Pension Service. ”
The above message is fresh off the press, published on the website of the newspaper HLN.
We, the farang in Thailand, are confronted every year with late papers due to the lengthy time that the mail is on its way to Thailand. It also costs us a lot of money to send our paper tax return back to Belgium by registered mail.
The press release mentions “some exceptions”. We, the compatriots abroad, will of course be included. I've always wondered why we can't use a simplified tax return. FPS knows perfectly how much we were paid each year.
Submitted by Willy
This is an annually recurring phenomenon.
Last year I spent from September to the end of January getting my tax return in order. Many e-mails have been sent back and forth to Brussels. And as mentioned in the article, a registered letter cost me a lot of money to send everything back.
The annoying thing about their system is that if you are married to your Thai wife and have deregistered from Belgium, you can no longer use Tax-On-Web. You are therefore obliged to submit a paper declaration.
In previous topics it is regularly complained that, despite the fact that we are still Belgian, we are often forgotten because we live abroad. I sometimes get that impression too. Now, our government is a very unwieldy machine, it sometimes takes years to get something right.
Dear Willy,
I totally disagree with this paragraph from your post:
'We, the farang in Thailand, are confronted every year with late papers due to the lengthy time that the mail is on its way to Thailand. It also costs us a lot of money to send our paper tax return back to Belgium by registered mail.
The annoying thing about their system is that if you are married to your Thai wife and have deregistered from Belgium, you can no longer use Tax-On-Web. You are therefore obliged to submit a paper declaration.'
This information is totally incorrect. And no, it does not go through the normal tax-on-web system that you use when you live in Belgium. The entry takes place in September and is a separate section for Belgians living abroad. Certain forms of taxes are automatically taken into account, which you do not have to pay if you do not live in Belgium. The declaration form is also designed differently. For example, you do not have to state your foreign account of the country of residence, this section does not even appear on that declaration.
So it is totally unnecessary what you write here about that mess with the post and late correspondence….. Just take the opportunity to register as a Belgian living abroad and then you can, quite simply, digitally enter the tax return via : 'www.myminfin.be'. I've been doing it for years and it just works. Ditto with the life certificate… can also be done perfectly via the internet.
Lung Addie,
I think the information in the original article IS correct.
If you have deregistered from Belgium and you are married to your Thai wife, you MUST submit a joint declaration. At the end of the procedure, BOTH partners must sign using their electronic ID card.
Can you explain to me how my wife can identify herself via Tax-On-Web if she had to hand over her F card when she left Belgium. I raised this problem with FOD finances and their answer was very clear that we just have to submit a paper declaration.
Perhaps you disagree with the original article, I can only confirm that what Willy claims is indeed correct for married couples deregistered from Belgium.
With the 'original article', taken from HNL, I also agree and correct. But not with his own commentary which he added. I also read that article this morning. Among other things, the fact that a registered letter costs a 'lot of money'….???? It takes a long time for the mail to be on its way: here for me it takes a week…. do I live in another Thailand? Yes, I do live in a civilized world where they no longer offer a basket of beets when a train arrives.
I wonder why it works for me and not for others? The only thing that is possible: the wife did not yet have a Belgian ID card and only an F card. Yes, then she was/is not yet registered as a Belgian. A solution could be to request a 'token' with which she can register. Worth trying. Problems are there to be solved.
Believe it or not dear Lung Addie, but from Brussels they have sent my paper declaration up to 2 times. Each time the mail has been on the road for MORE THAN 2 months (yes you read that right!). And I live in the same Thailand as you. I can also send you all the emails with the conversations I had with the civil servant in Brussels. With this I can safely demonstrate that the delivery of the mail actually took that long.
I sent my declaration back with EMS (registered) and this cost me no less than 1120 THB. If you don't believe this either, just give me your email and I'll scan the ticket and you'll have proof that I'm not bluffing.
I can confirm that my wife only owns an F+ card during the years she was in Belgium. However, I never claimed that she had Belgian nationality. With that, it is now more than clear that I cannot file a tax return via Tax-On-Web, which is ultimately the start of this topic.
I deeply regret that my story is questioned by you on all sides. A little empathy on your part could make the discussion a little more enjoyable. Unfortunately, some turn out to have a monopoly on the truth. Every situation is slightly different for everyone. This is no reason to disprove mine. Apparently I'm the bitten dog. With great respect, but I think not to ask for advice in the future.
Have a nice day.
lung addie,
Do you really think I would bother the editors with a story that doesn't make sense? My story is based on facts from my own experience. Perhaps you should then explain what I would like to clarify below.
By the way, in the first response (from Henri) it is also clearly stated that married partners in Thailand and definitively deregistered from Belgium cannot file a tax return through Tax-on-Web.
The reason for this is clear. Married couples must file a joint return. I have tried this several times electronically, but each time it was stated at the end of the procedure that my declaration would only be sent after my wife signed it electronically.
You may not know if you deregister from Belgium your Thai wife has to hand over her ID card. Well, explain to me how she can log into Tax-On-Web without an ID card!
To be clear: I emailed several times with the relevant service in Brussels and each time their answer was to submit everything on paper.
That you do not agree with my story to the editors, that is your full right, but that does not mean that it is incorrect in your humble opinion.
I look forward to your response, thank you.
Willy
You'll get my response, but that's the last thing I'll add to this.
I'm afraid you're confusing two things: did your wife actually have a Belgian ID card or did she have an F card? That's a big difference. You get an F card for 5 years and then, if the conditions are met, you can get an ID card. If you leave Belgium permanently within these 5 years, you must hand in that F-card because the condition is that you must stay in Belgium for an uninterrupted 5 years in order to obtain an ID card. The fact that she had to hand in her ID card would also mean that she would lose her acquired Belgian nationality, something that is not possible without legal proceedings.
You also mix tax-on web with the tax return for non-residents in Belgium, i.e. deregistered. This is a completely different procedure.
There are several options for logging in: a token, an ITSME and a single sign-on code. As Dree pointed out in his response, the latter is available. First read carefully in this matter and make use of the various options that are offered.
Dear Willy,
I have also been living in Thailand for years with my Thai wife and have deregistered in Belgium. I also file our joint return via Tax on Web. That declaration must also be signed electronically by her. That is not a problem because she also has the Belgian nationality and has the same Belgian eID as I do. So you do need a card reader that can read the eID chip.
The fact that your wife had to hand over her eID when leaving Belgium may have to do with the fact that she may not have Belgian nationality (i.e. dual nationality).
And as for that tax form: it was delivered to me just this afternoon by the postman.
What Lucien and Willy say has always been my conviction, after consultation with the tax authorities and also upon inquiry at the embassy (how my wife can register electronically without e-ID). I eagerly await Lung Addie's response and resolution as this may be a relief to many.
Regarding sending by post: I pay a 100 baht with Thai Post (no express or EMS), and you can track your mail to the door of the addressee in Belgium. It takes about 2 weeks for it to arrive.
Last year was ideal with the telephone appointment with the tax authorities, because the receipt had not arrived. This had gone perfectly. And the appointment and communication regarding the boxes to be completed and then sending them the assessment.
And now fingers crossed that we get rid of that paper declaration and get a simplified declaration on top of it.
Still someone who believes me, for which thanks.
Lung Addie won't provide a solution because there isn't one. If your wife does not own a Belgian ID card, now that we live permanently in Thailand, I unfortunately see no solution how she can log in via my EId card reader.
Thanks for your understanding Hans.
Your wife can request a one-time code from the city or municipality in Belgium that you last lived in. They sent it to me by email with which you can log in and sign without any problems, and I received the paper declaration by email last year and sent it back by email without any problems.
Dear Dree,
So you see: one works and the other doesn't. Sitting despondently and doing nothing, complaining and criticizing obviously yields nothing. As I wrote: by post is really not necessary, by email is accepted…. just like the life certificate...
Addie, sorry but I think Willy is just looking for a solution to his specific problem here.
I have the impression that you are going a bit fast yourself because you manage to get everything in order without any obstacles without any problem. Raising his problem here is just proof that Willy does not “do nothing” and does not intend to “criticize”.
Maybe you can actually lend him a helping hand instead of labeling him as a complainer and lazy. Sometimes certain members here are hard on each other though. If I really dislike certain discussions, I will remain aloof and I will certainly not provoke. That makes it a little more pleasant for all of us. No bad feeling Addie, but maybe put yourself in Willy's place...
Why has the wife/partner in Belgium not requested a token to log in to all “Belgian government” websites? In Belgium you do not need an electronic identity card to request the token.
Via electronic identity card is one of the possible solutions, but you also still have the token or via ItsMe.
I know several Belgians who have even activated both systems, token and E-Id. Token as a backup solution if the card reader ever causes problems. (Some even use the 3 systems, E-ID, token and ItsMe.)
That is also why many partners have applied for Belgian nationality, all problems solved.
But as already indicated, you can still use the paper version. If one has always refused to participate in the new rules, one should not complain afterwards that you cannot benefit from the modern relaxations.
I am married to a Thai , who also has Belgian nationality .
So my wife can draw electronically . So we do fill in our tax letter.
And are registered together at the Belgian Embassy.
I think that's where the difference lies and you're both right.
To sign electronically, you must have a means of logging in.
The options are:
– Token. If no electronic identity card is available, this must be requested in Belgium. (Token is a combination of email, password and list of tokens. After logging in, you are asked to enter token Nr x)
– Electronic Identity Card.
– ItsMe (App on the phone)
The difference is that you have people who have activated 1 or more solutions before they came to Thailand. Some people refused, for one reason or another, to apply for Belgian nationality for their partner and now complain that the partner does not have an E-ID.
Or some refusers, who have to pay, refused an electronic declaration, and indicate every year that they have not received any mail from Belgium. They then hope for a remission of the assessment or goodwill for a later payment or repayment plan.
Dear Rolly, I think you are right.
Both Willy (whose wife does not have Belgian nationality) and Lung Addie (who has no problems with his declaration) are indeed right.
Willy will start a new topic here hoping to gain some information.
He is immediately “attacked” and his story is labeled nonsense. Sad isn't it?
Some readers should take a deep breath before commenting here. I always believed that a blog like this can be useful to everyone. However, I have the impression that things are not always friendly here.
Just to be clear. I also have to fill in my taxes on paper every year because I can't file an electronic return either. This is for the same reason as Willy cites. I hope that what is stated in the press release will be an improvement for many pensioners abroad. Then we are immediately relieved of the annual red tape.
Wishing everyone a nice and sunny day.
Ludo
Dear Willy,
I don't understand your great concern.
Every year from 13 Sept. you can fill in your tax letter online via Taxonweb.
Exceptionally, last year it was 4 to 5 weeks later due to the Corona.
Don't worry, they won't forget you.
Greetings.
Gino.
Gino, maybe you should re-read what Willy wrote here.
He simply cannot submit his declaration via Tax-On-Web because his wife no longer has an ID card in her possession. Simple as that, has nothing to do with concern.
If the spouse/partner does not have an electronic ID, a token can be used.
Token in combination of email address and password.
You will receive a list of “numbered tokens” and when logging in you will be asked to enter token No.
But because the partner does not have an E-ID, you must request that token in Belgium before you come to Thailand.
No E-ID is then no excuse for not being able to log in.
In the last 2 years, you can also use an app on your phone (ItsMe).
This has been the case for many for some time. For me, including the past 2 years. Please check beforehand and give your approval or comments
Strange that the declaration via Tax-on-Web still works for some people, I tried it several times and yes in September and last year until December due to the shifting of the dates for the declaration.
I never succeed , however I have experience with it in Belgium and it always worked .
What did work out was filling in the declaration and error messages kept coming up, but I could have filled in a draft, which I then sent by e-mail, which they say they exceptionally accept for me.
Anyway, I have requested a paper declaration from September last year, which has never arrived until now !!!
So fortunately that draft was accepted , fortunately because I seriously have to withdraw because of having to pay 3 grandchildren and then have to pay almost nothing in taxes .
I now hope that this new way will get rid of the declaration, they can always ask me via e-mail confirmation whether I still have my wife's grandchildren, whether or not with proof.
Marc
The sad thing is that people would be afraid to ask something on this blog. This is not addressed to anyone personally, but it is a call for a little tolerance. Why can't people calmly try to help someone? Sour reactions, pedantry and arrogance are of no use to anyone. Empathy is also a gift. Or you help someone who may not have the training you have, or who is completely ignorant of the subject, or who is looking for confirmation in his doubts, or who simply has not thought of a problem that might arise in the future. I suggest you respond maturely to someone's questions. If you feel called to help someone, fantastic. By the way, negative reactions are wasted energy for yourself. Or is this a new form of enjoyment? Do you really have nothing else to do? Go for a long walk, scream loudly in a lonely place, have fun on a punching bag or think about how you could really help someone and how you can make a better world by starting with yourself. Maybe there will come a day when you would like to get help and there is a nice person who can help you sincerely and in a positive way, without giving you the impression that you have asked a stupid question. My teacher always said: there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Wouldn't that feel good? I wish everyone a sunny day.
The problem is usually comparable to the Visa questions.
Almost identical questions come back every day, which have already been answered dozens of times.
Same with tax-on-web and logging in.
Tax on web has been around for years.
You have several options to log in:
Token, ItsMe or E-ID.
If the partner does not have an E-ID, you can easily request a token in Belgium before you leave.
But if the people refuse to apply for this token, it is their own choice.
If you have an E-ID, you can also request the token in Thailand.
In addition, the last 2 to 3 years you also have ItsMe, an app on your phone that makes logging in via E-ID superfluous.
But here again the same story. If they refuse to install this app, that is also your free choice.
The beauty of the story is, the people who get money back from the taxes have no problem communicating with the tax authorities. All correspondence from Belgium arrives on time, and they can ship on time. Or they have E-ID with card reader, token as backup and possibly even ItsMe on the phone.
People who have to pay always have problems. Mail from Belgium never arrives, they “forget” to request the token for the partner, or they cannot install and activate Itsme. (You can activate ItsMe through your Belgian bank)
Berry, another aggressive answer that is of no use to anyone.
I did not request a token or anything in Belgium when I left because I was not aware of any problems afterwards.
It is really sad to read that you now say, and I repeat your words, "But if the people refuse to apply for this token, it is their own choice." This is what I call outright provocation.
My wife has no E-ID and can therefore arrange NOTHING to undo those problems. Do you really not get that?
Your last 2 paragraphs are the most nonsensical thing I have ever come across on this blog.
You should sink into the ground in shame. Such nonsense again reflects how certain individuals think of themselves.
I don't even understand how your response is an answer to Hans' very nice post in which he argues for a little more tolerance. Your comment is anything but an adult response.
I'm giving up on this one. What a pathetic mentality. But apparently some people enjoy this. I really don't feel good about it, sorry.
I just don't join the game, let's just "blacken" the Dutch/Belgian/Thai governments for the mistakes we made ourselves.
Or because we have the same nationality, Belgian or Dutch or …., we have to accept everything that a compatriot tells.
If you move permanently to Thailand as a Belgian and you still have to pay Belgian taxes afterwards, you will normally have informed the Belgian tax authorities before your departure.
The most common question then is, how can I do that in Thailand?
If you don't look at the different options, that's your own choice.
If you still want to do everything via the paper version, no one is stopping you.
But don't complain afterwards, I'll still do it via the paper version. If the people who have chosen to do it electronically have extra benefits later on, it still remains your own choice that you chose to do it the old-fashioned way.
The same applies to the partner's Belgian nationality. Until 15 years ago you didn't have to do anything, absolutely nothing, for it. Have only been married for a few years and your partner had Belgian nationality. Just submit the application. But the same complainers didn't want that. Because if they were ever to divorce, the partner would have too many rights and it could be expensive.
And then complain that the partner does not have a Belgian E-ID.
And so we can keep busy.
In the 20 years that I have been coming to Thailand, not a single package or letter, from Europe or worldwide, has failed to arrive in Thailand. Only the delivery time differs. Sometimes on 10 days, sometimes on 14 days.
But what do you read, the Belgian tax letter never arrives. 1 time I can still believe, but not every year.
But if you read on, you have people who expressly do not want to be clear.
Should they send a letter, and the post asks for a phone number, they refuse to give a number or expressly give a wrong number.
Even for the address. If asked to write in block capitals and clearly indicate T. XXXXXX. A. XXXXXXX one prefers not to do this.
To summarize, I don't howl with the wolves in the woods.
If someone writes, I can't use Tax-on-web because my partner doesn't have an E-ID, that's only half the story.
Instead of immediately crying along and all sympathy for the writer, I ask the question, why does your partner not have a Belgian ID and/or why don't you use other solutions?
Anatolius, you shouldn't feel bad about some of their reactions. Let them be honest with themselves. Put yourself above such negative reactions that should not touch your cold clothes. But of course we do have the right to denounce certain comments. This happens thus. Thanks to the moderator for also posting our thoughts on some of the comments.
Berry, thanks for your reply, but why the suggestive one? In my case I always get money back and thought I would leave well prepared for Thailand. And yet I was not aware of either token or Itsme. Can happen, I hadn't read this anywhere. But bon, now I live in Thailand and understand that I can't get a token anymore. Can I activate ItsMe (with my Thai phone number) (via my Belgian bank) if I live in Thailand? And yes, I could also ask my bank or look it up on the internet, but I trust the knowledge of my fellow man's experience and knowledge? Don't judge, don't judge, don't generalise, just reach out to people who want to know something. And for those who are tired of having explained or read it 100 times, no problem either, better not respond than blow off steam on this blog. I'm still of the write-through accounting generation, so excuse me for having a hard time following this e- thing. No shame right?