I was at Jomtien immigration last week for a year extension (marriage). I had put all the documents neatly together (2 times) and everything seemed to be in order for the little lady sitting in front of us on the left.
The 2 stacks of papers were passed on to another lady who started to act difficult and asked all kinds of questions to my wife in Thai. Among other things, she asked if it was her house where we lived. She still had the copies of the house book and the ID card with the same name of my wife in front of her.
Then the photos were not good again, just like last year. I have attached 6 photos just to be sure. This time she also wanted pictures of a Thai witness with us visible outside the house number, in the living room and also in the bedroom (humiliating). And also a copy of the witness's ID card and house book. Didn't immediately find someone who wanted to take a picture with a farang in his bedroom, of course.
The day after that was the last day of my residence permit) back to immigration to ask for an extension for 60 days and that was also against her will, but she eventually succeeded. In the meantime I have found two Thais who want to help me and hope that it will work out at the end of January. Witness must also go to immigration.
I've been taking care of my wife for 15 years, so it won't be a marriage of convenience. If they don't want us here why don't they just say so. I think it's time to look elsewhere.
Submitted by Ruud
Since what you've been through isn't happening across the country as far as I know, there probably won't be an order from above.
You are probably dealing with a disgruntled immigration officer.
A few months before my new application (retirement) I top up my shortfall on my account by means of a loan through good acquaintances, after my new annual renewal I pay back the loan with a low interest, have been doing it this way for years without any problem .
Dear Ruud, yes, why don't they just say that? Thai and the Thai language are not designed to directly say yes or no or, more bluntly, 'fuck off'. If the Thai were as reserved in traffic as he is in his language, that would be a blessing. I think you just had bad luck with that lady, I have had very good experiences with immigration here in Udonthani and this is mentioned more positively in various blogs. The arbitrariness in bureaucracy has always existed. Power inequality, etc. Finally, a small incident that I experienced. I needed a little more cash than the ATM could provide, so I took my savings book to the bank. No customers, two ladies behind the counter, busy with their phones. I came there for my money, a disruptive factor, I estimate.
I had to put my signature on a withdrawal form twice. Signature was not good according to the lady. Just one more time then. In an infrared scanner she showed my signature, which I had put when opening the account. My initial was separate from my last name. I had drawn with a little bit of the initial in the first letter of the last name. I had passport for identification. Finally got my money in a chilled atmosphere because I'm pretty well spoken also in Thai.
Ruud doesn't let you get out of the field, move along and you already do that, then it will probably work out. Wherever you are it is always something different in the same order of magnitude.
is quite a bit laughable, but even with a good-humoured bank employee it sometimes happens to me that the signature does not match the signature in the register of the bank. The good thing is that they don't let you muddle but show you the signature from the system.
They are very precise in this country, at least in some sectors. I've seen quite a few times that it wasn't 100% right. Recently. Cash check. One of my first names is jacObus. That's what it says in my passport. One of the checks was marked “jacUbus”. So it wasn't right. Was annoying. But, I was allowed to put a half circle on top of the “u” and then the “u” was an “o” so ok. Laughing of course, but also confidence-inspiring!
Ask for Pol.Col.Katatorn Khamtieng and tell the complaint.
He's the director of immigration.
Had a similar problem once. Despite the fact that my university degree was bilingual, under “University of Amsterdam” it said “University of Amsterdam”, this was not clear to a lady from BOI. Then she went to her boss's boss and .. 30 minutes later this lady had a new room… they had cleared the broom house and she had been moved there. There was just room for a chair. Never had any problems with BOI again.
By the way: thanks to that eternal "smile" 90% of my business has moved outside Thailand.
Ruud, unfortunately I have to agree with what you write and it is also 100% correct. I have been coming to the same Immigration for 10 years and everyone knows me and my partner. Yet every time they manage to find something to to make you come back one more time. Even if it's just that you have to have a photo with the entire neighborhood in it and you in the middle or some such nonsense. I know I'll get the short end of the stick, but I've wanted to ask when they came to see if we actually have sex together. I'm starting to see it more and more as a kind of show of power on their part. Just show that you have to do what THEIR want and otherwise bad luck with your visa. When I last time could pick up my extension of stay, they first made me wait 45 minutes and then said (without asking because they know what I came for) that I could hand in my passport to the employee in the corner who had been using her phone all the time. sitting and playing. Then the stamps were put in and the passport was placed at the back of a table and the lady also needed almost an hour to give her approval, after all, as I understood, she had her friend visiting during work. I like it here. excellent in Thailand, but you certainly don't get the feeling that you are a welcome guest.
This is how people in Belgium feel at the migration service, but then x10!
Isn't there a little difference?
We bring money to Thailand.
The migrants in Europe come to get money.
I think that difference is very important.
100% correct, Hans, but they have no recourse to this. No like, go back…!!!!
In the Netherlands it is different.
First time a lot of questions and papers and then soon come back in 5 years.
In Thailand you have to undergo this humiliation every year.
And also back every 3 months to say where you live.
Also had this last week, do not mention the details, it is in a word sad to say what is happening here at the various immigrations, they force you to go through the illegal circuit, because that gives them more, , maybe you want to post this now, last week it was not posted, see the future very sad, you just don't know what's next, what you run into, keep writing it again we as fralang are discriminated against, it gives they probably have an incredible sense of accomplishment, sweet dreams are looking for some one, , chokdee.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you, with 20,000 baht everything will be arranged for you without having any money in the bank. To my surprise (I am very good) recently heard this from 4 people, who had sought refuge here because it was all too much for them (Also in view of the fact that consular certificates are no longer issued).
Corruption is rampant, and we Western people are screwed. The Chinese, on the other hand, are welcomed as if they were Sinterklaas – which in a sense they are!
I'm done with this, and will leave next March for better reasons. I will NOT miss Thailand, apart from some really lovely people, and some dishes.
You can of course call the immigration corrupt, but the corruption starts with the foreigner, who does not meet the immigration requirements of Thailand.
He is willing to put money on the table to be able to live here.
Those consular statements are currently not a problem as far as I understand the messages, because they have a validity of 6 months.
Only Danes might have problems at the moment.
If the required income is transferred to Thailand, it will probably be accepted as proof, even without a consular clearance.
And why not transfer that money, after all you have to spend it here, if you live here.
If there was a lie in that consular statement, well…then people have a problem.
But you can't blame Thai immigration for that.
Ruud,
I have to disappoint you, I had neatly printed out my income from the Netherlands via the Siam Bank, 25 pages, the Siam bank has put a stamp and signature on each copy.
With this I can prove that I have at least 65.000 Bhat per month to spend in Thailand.
But……… was NOT accepted at the Bangkok immigration, had to go to the Dutch Embassy for a visa support letter.
This is Thailand.
Immigration controls only the legalization of income,
Among other things by means of a visa support letter from the Ned. Embassy.
The bank only needs to issue a statement that the latest data is correct.
Thank you for all the work you've done!
the next step?
Well, I heard from my lawyer that he had to send a list of all the companies, with farang director, to BKK. They will check whether the company has been set up in order not to violate the law on land management.
So sleeping companies …… beware. working companies will have to provide evidence.
They have been talking about this for more than 10 years…but in the meantime there is another king…other government…and the elections are coming.
Everyone does what they think is best, especially listen to cafe talk, they know best there, lol.
In Khon Kaen, the entire procedure for an extension of stay based on retirement takes about XNUMX minutes.
Of course not counting the waiting time before your turn, but always smooth and polite,
In Jomtien/Pattaya it takes about the same time. At least with me. The last few years it's been a piece of cake. However, it does depend on the number of visitors and that can vary greatly per day or period.
I have the same positive experience of Khon Kaen as HansNL. Even useful tips (unsolicited) and usually a nice laugh. But, if you don't have your affairs in order, they are also polite, but unrelenting. Too late is too late and that costs Baht. I once saw a Falang who went crazy, well, he could forget about it, he was simply ignored and eventually left.
This procedure does not take long in Hua Hin either, but there is talk of a visa based on marriage and not retirement. That's something completely different. I have also been married for three years, but luckily I can still get the retirement visa every year… that is easier.
Easily said thou.
First invest everything here and then start again somewhere else, without savings.
I'm losing heart here.
I have never had any problems with all my requests and I am very meticulous, because salt is put on all snails. Also, one is so full of this important work that unreasonableness often oozes from it. Nevertheless, we will have to make do with it and patience is important. Personally, I would go to immigration a little earlier than 1 day (rather a week) before the expiry of the annual permit. You never know, like now with this writer, what will come on the path and which bears will be found. The permit based on a marriage is the most extensive and if possible I would go for a less severe remedy, which I always use myself. Unless people are not well off, then the financial component is probably a significant factor and they will have to do it that way. Learning from these situations is the only positive thing and in the end this will work again anyway. Keep breathing calmly and the line won't break.
I had been to the bank on Wednesday morning to have my booklet updated and to request a bank letter for immigration. I had 400000+ in a fixed account which I could update by depositing 2000 baht. They could only make that bank letter the next day, I was told. My previous times this was possible on the same day, but with a savings account. As a result, I was only able to go to immigration on Thursday, my penultimate day. That officer at immigration told me on Friday that I could come back on Monday with a witness. I said I would have overstay then, 500 bt per day she said, yes I know that too. Can you imagine what a childish thing. If I come across something in that crazy traffic with an expired residence permit, I'll be in jail too!
Naama aka Ruud de OP (original poster).
Thank you for the responses.
Ruud
I was 1 day late with my 90 day report.
The official started to look very hard and said; You have to pay a fine.
I asked: howmuch, answer 2000 baht.
I could hardly believe it and paid 2000 baht.
When he returned my passport , he put a 1000 baht note back in my passport and said :
half-half.
And no receipt of course.
Too bad it has to be that way.
Very nice especially D. Brouwer that you got 1000 Baht back from him! He could also have put everything in his pocket….
Too bad he was so strict.
Not nice that you have been scammed for at least 500 baht.
Overstay per day 500 baht!
Too bad you didn't immediately report this to his superior
You can NEVER be in “overstay” if you are overdue with a 90 day notification.
“Overstay” is only possible if you exceed the period of stay.
If you are late with a 90-day notification, this is only after 7 days and not after 1 day.
“The notification must be made within 15 days before or after 7 days the period of 90 days expires.”
https://www.immigration.go.th/content/sv_90day
The standard fee for late reporting is 2000 Baht, but this can increase with an arrest.
“It is better to keep track of the rules of Thai Immigration at all times during your stay in the country, as failure to file your 90-day report can result in a fine of 2,000 THB, and can be increased up to 5,000 THB once you get arrested with an additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with. ”
https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do
Clear, thank you Ronny!
So this official has gone way out of his league and
abused D.Brouwer's unfamiliarity
about this 90-day rule!
What does overstay have to do with this if you report too late in your 90-day period with a still valid residence permit? Then you will receive a fine of 2000 baht.
1 day late and fined? Then you were in fact 8 days late, because you can/must make the 90-day notification within a period of 15 days before the formal date to 7 days afterwards…..
I had a couple of French friends with three children in Jomtien and they had to get a year extension for their stay. They were literally "deviled". In desperation, they came to my aid. I took them to my lawyer and he did it for them. The next day everything was fine. It took a bit but there was no more hassle.
Land of smiles… I haven't believed that for a long time.
Quite right, I'm already gone, after 15 years.
Here in Spain, a world of difference and much cheaper!
Back in civilization, all day human temperatures (Calpe-Altea-Albir) also now in winter ,
blue sky 21 deg in the shade and 15 deg at night.
Everything at hand, and for 75 eu you fly back and forth to Belgium.
There are also fun and less fun things there. I know many who also return from there disappointed.
Usually it's rose scent and moonshine everywhere in the beginning. Only afterwards do the less attractive stories come.
Spain can be good, but far too cold for me. degrees at night, you need heating or you will freeze.
When you enter jomtien go left past the information pass the first row of counters on the left and on the next corner is a young man who understands us and speaks a little english and dutch and is happy to help you. His name Wanlop nickname ball _ball
Success.
Just came back from a few weeks holiday with my in-laws, but for me it is and remains a backward country, not the people who live there, but all the happenings around it.
That's why I don't mind living there and helping with all that corruption, that's why I often argue with my in-laws and tell them to stand up against all those stupid rules, just open your mouth.
Rob,
Then I have to disappoint you.
A Thai was born under Buda and grew up to always help another, this one will never lose touch with another and especially his fellow. It is simply never possible to hold the other person accountable. See in traffic, driving through a red light, no Thai will address him / her about it. It is not for nothing that Thailand ranks first among the most dangerous countries in traffic.
Fortunately, everything is better and faster arranged in the Netherlands.
If you want to have family or acquaintances come to visit, you have to hand in all kinds of documents and everything through the embassy in Bangkok.
I'm not talking about the hassle of coming for your partner for 3 months or longer, form here form there, have all kinds of deeds translated and everything through the embassy.
Renewing a residence permit takes months, the IND and the municipality think along with you.
I'm not even talking about the costs.
It's the same bullshit everywhere, no matter where you stay.
Excuse. This was my answer to someone else.
@Jan understands it now, that's how I get the impression. Indeed, try to have a loved one come over to Europe. So much posturing!
We have it easy here.
First put out of your mind that the Thai need us. But be glad we got to stay here.
For those leaving: tabee. Let us know whether Cambodia, Vietnam or Spain will turn out to be better in a few years' time. Or did you take yourself there too?
Extending the (temporary .5 year) residence permit via the IND costs € 240.=. After payment and online application for the extension, first go to have your fingerprints taken at an IND office, for which you must make an appointment, also online via DigiD. The IND then has 3 months to process the application. This year, however, due to the unforeseen (?) many applications for extensions, the IND needed 4,5 months to decide on my partner's 4th application, while the circumstances of residence, etc., had remained the same. In the past, the IND has already been reprimanded by the Ombudsman for exceeding the term, but that seems to have made little impression. Anyway, after notification from the IND that the new residence permit could be collected, we made another appointment, exclusively online, and finally received the pass, in driver's license format. Can vividly imagine the frustration of Ruud and others in obtaining a new annual visa, but Jan rightly notes that things are not exactly simple in the Netherlands either.
Have lived in Korat for 21 years and have always been treated politely and correctly by immigration.
However, my papers are always in order and that is a must.
been living in Pattaya for 8 years, never had any problem with immigration in Jomtjen, but a lot of helpfulness.
Must mention that I have arranged all my affairs properly and always enclosed the correct documents, with a correct signature.
If you don't like it here, come back.
Hi Ruud,
You write "I think it's time to find other hearing".
I'd say do it!
There are more pleasant countries than Thailand to stay in.
That has also become clear to me in the meantime.
Don't get stuck with the packs.
Ruud, the blue book is NOT proof of ownership!!!!! It is proof of residence !!! Only a chanote (or related Nor Sor, etc…) is proof of ownership.
Honestly, I don't understand all the complaining stories and that people even leave because of the problems. I have been living in Thailand for quite a long time and in all those years I have always been treated correctly and often friendly at various immigration offices. I have to say that I am a pain in the ass and always have my affairs in order. I would like to compliment the immigration office in Buriram that opened a few years ago. Everything is usually fast and friendly, but there are always people who don't have their papers in order and then make problems. Even then, people remain polite and correct, but consistent. I still enjoy living in Thailand.
Ruud,
A marriage visa has been a problem for years, not only in Jomtien but also in BKK, I know of cases where the immigration first came to look at the house itself. I think this is due to the fact that you only need 400 k, precisely because of this fact and requirements they are suspicious, it is also abused a lot, don't forget that.
I've lived here for 14 years, not married, I don't want that either. Just 800 k in the bank on the deposit account and filled in with all the correct paperwork, never had 1 problem for visa extension and never had to wait long. Only downside, pick up your passport the next day. I also don't hear any problems from my direct friends who simply have an income statement from the Austrian consulate.
Also applied for a tourist visa at the Dutch embassy this year for my Thai girlfriend, now even for 3 years, until the expiry date of her passport. My girlfriend has already been to the Netherlands 9 times, so that also helps of course, trust is there and you shouldn't damage that by breaking the rules, for example staying longer than 90 days or returning earlier than the 180 days before.
This person is more likely to cause problems. I know of a compatriot who was a day late through no fault of his own.
The day before he was there exactly on time when the power went out, and he got a note that he could come back the next day. He probably got that particular “lady” the day before. Then he was told that he was a day late and was fined 500 THB. Of course he did not agree to this.
He complained to the head of the immigration office in Jomtien.
He was invited to return a few days later. He made a meeting with the complainant and the lady in question. He was right, this lady has a loose face. The head of immigration could not reverse the fine, but paid it out of his own pocket.
So disagreeing helps.
Better to send something like that to the Pattaya Mail or Bangkok Post, That has more effect than on this blog
I moved many times, started in Udon Thani, moved to Buengkan, then to Chiangsean, then to Nong Bua lumphu, to Chaiyaphum, to Rayong. Never had any problems but it's different everywhere. In Udon, the ostensible boss sitting separately (at the entrance) offered his 'special services' for 30.000 and the person I occupied a room with was called a few more times to reassure how easy everything would go. I better not go into details but everything seems to depend on the mood of the relevant officer and whether it clicks a bit. Corruption would be tackled under the current Gunta but has only gotten worse.
A few notes:
1. Thailand is a very bureaucratic country so everything is carefully checked every year (or every 90 days). There is no ability to improvise nor customer friendliness nor flexibility nor empathy;
2. Civil servants do not work for the client, the population, but for the king;
3. Any foreigners who don't play by the rules or even do illegal things in this country (and yes, there really are; just ask, follow the news) ruin it for the rest. This creates an image that every foreigner has a secret agenda, just as many expats in Thailand think that foreigners in the Netherlands or Belgium are all profiteers. The result: everyone is explicitly checked down to the smallest detail. If you think that this should be stricter in your home country, you should not complain that Thailand does the same with you;
4. I have the impression that the Thai immigration and police have heard little about perpetrator profiles, let alone act on them;
5. The officials are used to the fact that people (in general, not just the Thais) don't take it so closely with respect to rules. That is a kind of culture and probably also applies to the civil servants themselves;
6. Every chef has his own interpretation of the rules and may not be aware of all the rules and recent changes. Lists of conditions on the website are no guarantee for perfect handling.
The remedy is not running away or returning to the homeland, but patience and keep smiling. As far as immigration is concerned, it is about 1 day per year (you don't have to do 90 days yourself). I deal with these kinds of things every week in my work. Then you learn patience and you also learn to laugh.
When I hear everyone complaining here, I always think of the Eastern Bloc countries. We have sailed to the Danube with our inland vessel for years. This was purely professional. so there is no question of moving to another country. In 93 there were no open borders and customs had to be cleared from each country. Did you really think that this went without problems and corruption everywhere? Sometimes you had to wait at a border for 2 days because Mr. Customs didn't feel like it. We always had bottles of drinks and cigarettes on board, and that was definitely not for our own use. The Thai immigration offices are even more polite. And we had no choice. It was our job. Just nod obediently and remain silent. And make sure you have everything in order. They are above you anyway. So if you want to live here for pleasure you will have to accept this. Everyone is free to leave again