Reader Submission: Unnoticed, three measures directly affecting retirees in Thailand.
Prinsjesdag 2015 has already passed for a few weeks, and the general and financial considerations that followed have passed more or less silently.
With regard to the position of the elderly and their benefits from AOW and pension, it was particularly disappointing that they were not allowed to benefit from an improving economy. On the contrary. The purchasing power of the elderly is coming under even more pressure. The failure to increase purchasing power for the elderly also affects pensioners living in Thailand. There is little audible protest, also for example from Henk Krol and Jan Nagel of the 50+ party.
Everyone is automatically a non-resident taxpayer
There is also a second disadvantageous measure: those who live permanently in Thailand as a Dutch national and are therefore deregistered from the Netherlands, will be regarded by the Tax Authorities as a 'foreign taxpayer' from this year. This means that no tax credits and deductions may be entered in the tax return for this year. It is now the case that the 2nd bracket tax rate will be reduced from 42 to 40,15%, but this is a general measure and applies to everyone. It is independent of the situation of the elderly and all taxpayers benefit from it.
Low actuarial interest is very detrimental to pension benefits
A third more worrying development is that the purchasing power of pensioners will fall by an additional 5% on average over the next ten years due to the new (UFR) actuarial interest rate that has applied to pension funds since July this year. Due to the new actuarial interest rate, the liabilities of pension funds are EUR 20 billion higher. Pension funds are only allowed to start indexing pensions for inflation much later. Here, too, there will be adverse consequences for the situation and position of pensioners, after all, pension funds will be forced to cut pensions. The effects of the set low actuarial interest rate have not been thought through and foreseen at all, and will eventually kill all (including future) pensioners. Coming Friday, October 9, State Secretary Jet Klijnsma (PvdA) must present the results of an investigation into the effects of the actuarial interest rate to the House of Representatives.
We're waiting! What else are we left with?
Submitted by Soi
Is that 5% per year or 5% in 10 years?
The article mentions a pension benefit decrease of up to 5% over the next 10 years. In addition, the negative tax measures and the annual decrease in purchasing power due to out-of-sync with cost increases apply annually. As the years go by, you are therefore constantly tarnishing.
Hallo,
I just don't understand the subject that everyone is going to be regarded as a non-resident taxpayer who has been deregistered in the Netherlands.
Wasn't that always the case?
I do not understand why you would no longer have deductions in the Netherlands. If you have been deregistered, you are no longer a Dutch taxpayer anyway?
Best regards. Bz
Read about the principle: qualifying non-resident taxpayer from 2015 on: http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/internationaal/fiscale_regelingen/
Dear Bz, until 2014 you could opt for treatment as a domestic or foreign taxpayer, even if you were deregistered in the Netherlands.
You could play with the declaration program and determine what your choice was depending on the outcome.
Now no one from NL who lives in Thailand and is deregistered in NL qualifies as a resident taxpayer.
So you will be treated entirely according to the rules of the Thailand-Netherlands Treaty, e.g. Aow taxed in NL, pension sometimes taxed in NL, sometimes not, etc.
Nico B
Has everyone also got those old-fashioned ′′ how is it actually ′′ SUSPENDERS to hold up your pants? Because all Dutch people living in Thailand are getting undressed!
Yes Yuundai, unfortunately we will not escape the BRACES to keep your pants up.
We used to be able to go on stage to bring down a government, but unfortunately that is no longer possible.
Our current government leaders are now only afraid of the younger employees and therefore bully them less than the physically weaker elderly.
And the fittest elderly are fortunately abroad for the Rutte club. Why will they support us now? We can't send this club home after all.
Foreign taxable, what does this mean? Is it then the case that no tax-free base applies to Dutch taxable income such as pension and state pension?
Marcus, this indeed means that a tax-free base = tax credit no longer applies,
which, incidentally, you could only claim if you opted for resident taxpayer status.
In addition, there is something that has not yet been mentioned in the responses, the tax credit of the wife/tax partner is therefore no longer paid out, your partner can no longer opt for resident taxpayer status. That used to be the case if you paid enough tax in NL; this can be a significant loss for those who not only have a taxed old age pension in NL, but also have taxed pensions in NL in accordance with the Thailand-Netherlands Treaty, eg pension based on a 0 government income.
Nico B
Sorry, but your problem eludes me.
You all have chosen Thailand, for different reasons: nice weather, nice lady to wash the back, significantly lower cost of living…
And YET you wish to receive the same compensation as the elderly residing in NL, who have to deal with the cost structure here.
Moreover: you already have the currency advantage anyway: when I was stationed in TH in 1993-4, I received 15-16 THB for one guilder, so x 2,2 = approx. 35 THB / Euro.
For a long time you have had a very strong floorboard, even for 53 THB/Euro. Recently the exchange rate touched 35 THB/Euro again, but now it is back to 40. So you are already receiving 14% more money, demands that the elderly person who has remained in the Netherlands can only dream of.
And yet .. typical of the Netherlands: complaining again, because ... the other wallet, which was also eaten, was much tastier in the past ..
The NL AOW is provided by the state according to CURRENT legislation to bear the cost of living in NL, to be paid by the CURRENT workers, who thus get back the benefit of the spending of the elderly in the NL economy. You have never paid a penny of your current state pension yourself.
Do you wish to go somewhere else: your choice, but the AOW .. is for spending in NL (ok: Euro country).
Please note: your AOW is based on CURRENT legislation. So if there is a majority for the above explanation in the next elections.. you can wave to your state pension in TH day. Just think of the current or upcoming situation with benefit export to Morocco.
Your privately accrued pension = your own contribution (approx. 20-25%) + return on the savings (the rest, so 75-80%): that is your own problem. And those returns have collapsed in recent years (along with inflation, by the way)
How do you come to the conclusion that I never paid for my current state pension.
I have paid premiums from the age of 15 up to and including the age of 65
Greetings from a pensioner who always pays AOW contributions
If we all had to go back, the problems would be even bigger than now. I have worked all my life and paid for my AOW and pension. I moved on medical prescription from specialists and in accordance with the law and therefore save the municipality and government money. AWBZ, assistance from the municipality due to disability and illness.
And the returns have collapsed because of the government, banks and pension funds. Not because of the victims. They only have the disadvantages. And your comment of 53 THB is also nonsense, it was a very short rate that only lasted for a very, very short time. You forget that we pay much more for health insurance, living expenses, etc. If everyone in the Netherlands is allowed to live the same as the many Thais here, they will have a lot left over and they will have no financial problems. They don't have to have any now. If those responsible had used their brains and taken responsibility. Instead of fraud, scams and lying and deceiving. And I don't understand your comment about eating other people's wallets because that is not possible here in Thailand. At least if you officially reside there. And in 1993 you got 35 THB for a euro. Now not so long ago I got 35,09 and 37 THB for a euro. So????? I can just about get by here, but the time when Thailand was still cheap "It's long been outdated." And if I wanted to eat like in the Netherlands, it would even be a lot more expensive. I find your statements unqualified and poorly substantiated. If I did not have so many medical problems in the Netherlands, I would be back tomorrow. Yes, lower costs of living and a number of other things. , And you compare the current situation with almost 23 years ago.
Very clear explanation. I completely agree!
Dear Harry,
I think that the discontinuation of the AOW for Dutch people living abroad will not be stopped so quickly, because they are the ones who built up the Netherlands after the war and they also paid a lot of money for the AOW. treasury (10% of your salary x 50 years).
Greetings Nico
from a sunny Thailand……..
For the sake of convenience, Harry ignores the fact that the AOW benefits outside NL are paid “barely”. No tax credits and surcharges, no tax deductions. We simply pay our tax share. In TH, the AOW is and will remain simply from the NL tax authorities. You can't escape that outside the Netherlands either. The benefits that would come from lower living costs are undermined by higher health insurance costs. A higher rate for the baht is then leveled off by times with lower rates.
Remains sinnekinne! But that was already a reason to leave NL.
I really envy them, today's state pensioners. I can continue to work until I (hopefully) turn 67, if it hasn't turned 70 by then. So I have to wait a long time for my free, paid time and hope that I can enjoy it then.
I have seldom heard such nonsense. People have paid for their state pension all their lives. And, according to Harry, would have no right for their money. While they also if you live abroad. (Which saves the government a lot of money) Do have to pay taxes. And as far as the exchange rate difference is concerned. That can also very easily turn out differently. Because if they continue like this in Europe, the euro may well go to 20 baht. And you think that the state determines what we do with our lives and money. While we do spend a lot of money for a king because he wants to have a country residence in another country.
What Harry says is basically correct that people never pay state pension for themselves, only for example I paid the highest state pension premium for 50 years, while others who have never worked have paid nothing, so it makes no sense if you live in Thailand no longer would receive state pension. get while; Thailand is also a treaty country, the remark euroland ok. doesn't make sense, isn't everyone allowed to decide for themselves where they are going to live or not??
Last week I received a letter from the Dutch tax authorities, with the following content:
"Deviation from your 2013 income tax return"
Exempt income:
”You indicate that the income from the Netherlands is exempt from tax in the Netherlands.
This is not right. The tax treaty with Thailand allocates the state pension and annuity payments
to the Netherlands. Your tax return has been adjusted on that point.”
I have been living in Thailand for 10 years and have deregistered in the Netherlands.
I have an annuity payment, of which the insurance company (mandatory) taxes
means. I always get it back after filing a non-resident taxpayer return
deposited. About 2013 they suddenly start making problems.
I think someone is quite confused, in Heerlen.
Or someone woke up in Heerlen of course.
However, it is unclear to me whether or not that annuity should be taxed in the Netherlands.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about that.
At least with me.
Well, I'll figure that out by then.
The worst thing that has happened for expats is of course the treaty that Ascher signed with Morocco to adjust the benefits to the cost of living.
This could become a license to do the same with all other countries.
Still nice such a "leveling cabinet"
But that's what a lot of Dutch people wanted! That was even one of the spearheads of the party that would now receive the most votes in NL! Why pay the same amount to returned Moroccans (who, incidentally, have paid their entire working life in NL) the same amount as to NL people living in NL. Can't they get by with much less given the lower cost of living in Morocco? And now that the ball is bouncing back to Dutch people who live abroad themselves with lower living costs, is the measure suddenly not good? Hypocritical! The truth is that you can live more luxuriously in Thailand with your state pension and a small pension than with the same amount in the Netherlands? And those more expensive healthcare costs? I'm sorry.. you chose to live in a country where that is less well organized than in NL, didn't you? No… don't complain… just enjoy the wonderful Thailand!
Regarding Lodewijk Asscher's agreement with Morocco, the link with AOW/Pension eludes me. Asscher has concluded a deal regarding benefits based on the General Surviving Dependents Act, the partial disability benefit (WGA), and allowances in the context of disability and child benefit. The discount on Child Benefit will only apply from 2021.
Furthermore: the renewed agreements are applied to people who are entitled to one of the benefits from 2016, and do not concern Moroccan-Dutch people who are already entitled to benefits. So also not on those who went to live in Morocco after their 65th birthday with their AOW (and pension).
Dear Cor,
The AOW is NOT a benefit, but an old age provision according to the law.
@Ioe: I think your story is only part of the whole:
Yes, NL is the withholding agent for your state AOW and (privately taken out in NL) annuity(s) and other pensions. So you only get your NET share of each, where the insurance starts with the maximum retention, I thought 51% (yes, consider yourself lucky with your Thai tax regime).
At the end, everything is reported to the tax authorities, who then add everything up. You will probably never reach that maximum of 51%, so you will still receive some of the deductions.
What has changed in your case in 2013? I do not know.
Whether someone in Heerlen is confused? ?
If you also have pensions from Dsl or B, for example, they will also deduct the max. To what extent this can be settled in NL: no idea. I don't think so, because you owe tax in TH on your worldwide income, where certain exemptions apply (eg: already taxed elsewhere)
Is that man with the briefcase laughing at us (me) now? You would think so with these types of messages and decisions. He is probably happy that we have settled in Thailand, then he will be able to get rid of us. Dutch but different, read, less, less, less. They try to get money in all kinds of ways, because the cabinet must fulfill the agreements they made in connection with the EU fairy tale. Not my agreements, because I am not known for this, but the policy agreements in Brussels. It's getting worse. I just received a message from my pension fund that I will receive less pension than originally agreed. No less than 3000 euros less per year. And that after 45 years of making that money, and it now appears that all those years were paid under false pretenses. What has been held up for years disappears like snow in the sun. We should collectively file charges for forgery and deceiving the people. Those agreements are worth nothing. Cabinets are completely unreliable. For many years now. I'm disgusted by a lot of politicians. Nasty people who no longer have any regard for who raised the country. Based on previous responses, you also see that a fair number of Dutch people argue from their own perspective and that is one of individualism (every man for himself and God for us all), collective thinking has been killed in the last 20 years. Unions, why would you still be a member of an association, but especially not collective insurance. You're smart and you can do it yourself.
These types of characters will only make things worse and ultimately for themselves if they don't realize this already. The end is not yet in sight because the program writers of this cabinet will have to find much more money in today's money-consuming society. Who do you think should run as an example for that tsunami of asylum seekers of 33.000 euros per person per year. Has the cabinet already presented a cost-covering picture for this???? Dear people, it will be continued and we will all experience it.
If you stay in the Netherlands then you have to deal with an AOW gap, formally 3 months with me. Celebrated m, n birthday at the end of September and therefore only got a pension because September 1 is what they assume. Now I will only receive my full payment of pension and old age pension together at the end of January. No one can explain to me ( svb pmt ) why I only receive the full composite amount at the end of January, I think I really count 5 months that I only have a pension without state pension.
Regards,
Jan.
It will be a yes / no, so we close the comment option. Thanks to everyone for their contribution.