What are your thoughts on Thailand? How have they changed? And why?
In 1999 I moved to Thailand and lived there until 2017. Over time my opinions and feelings about Thailand have partly remained the same and partly changed, sometimes even changed a lot. I am certainly not alone in this, so I think it is interesting and instructive to hear from each other how others have fared.
My love for Thailand and my interest in all things Thai remained the same. It is an extremely fascinating country and I still read a lot about it. My son also still lives there, he studies there and it saddens me that I cannot visit him this year. Hopefully that will change next year.
The fact that I started to think differently about Thailand has to do with my own experiences, what I experienced and heard, but also what others told me and what I read in books and newspapers. It was quite a process. I would like to share with you at a later time what has changed in my train of thought, but I do not want to influence the thoughts of readers beforehand. I would first like to ask you readers to leave a comment at the bottom of this piece. You are the first to speak.
All experiences and opinions are unique and individual. I request that you do not judge or condemn others. Instead, just read and listen to the other person. Maybe the stories of others make you happy, excited, angry or sad. But don't go into that, don't point the finger at someone else. So please no you-bakes, write an 'I' message: What do you feel and think yourself?
Tell about your experiences. What has changed during your time in Thailand and what has stayed the same? How did that happen? What affected you the most?
Thank you in advance.
In 1992 I worked in Hong Kong. When I went on leave to the Netherlands with a KLM flight via Bangkok, I got off and stayed in Thailand for 1 or 2 weeks. That was possible at the time, it didn't cost my employer anything extra. Then on to Amsterdam. Later in 2007, my company employed me in Rayong. In 2008 I met my current Thai wife. We have never lived in the Netherlands together. Still a few more years in Australia. But since 2016 I have been retired and mostly stay at my house in Prachin Buri.
Has much changed over the years? Disregarding this year for a moment, I don't think so. No structural issues. Little things here and there. For example, many more Asian tourists have come from countries such as China, Korea and Japan. These tourists experience their holiday in a different way than Europeans, Americans and Australians. Naturally, the Thai tourism industry responds to this. But I have no problem with that, my stay here will not be disturbed by it. Furthermore, some administrative matters change every now and then, depending on the government in power at that time. But even that has no real influence on my life here. Over the years I don't think the population has changed. I still have many dear Thai friends. In my day-to-day dealings I find them pleasant people. Actually no different than when I came here for the first time in 1992.
I have been on holiday on Koh Samui about 16 times. Wonderful holidays, where we also like to look behind the important streets and go "off-the-beaten-track". After a few years, we started to notice that many smiles were rather grimaces. The Thai, at least on Koh Samui, need the tourists. But they don't like people who trample on their traditions and customs. And there are quite a few tourists who do.
Now, in 2020, I feel that the Thai, or at least the Thai government, would rather see the western foreigners, and maybe the Australians too, go than come. The backpackers don't seem welcome anymore either. They seem to only want rich people. Then I don't feel like it anymore.
With nostalgia I look at the many pictures of the beautiful nature, the sea, the people, the boats, but whether I will really go there again ... time will tell!
Hi Tino,
This is a tough one. !! I myself have been going to this beautiful country since 1985, of which the last 15 years never less than 4 months a year.
Like everyone else, I too have received a different view, both in the good sense and the lesser sense.
First and foremost you have to be very lucky with the partner who crosses your path, seems a bit easier in Europe.
Sometimes I wonder if Thais really care about farang from their hearts, if their kindness is sincere.
I guess that's how they grew up and learned to laugh all the time.
I've personally seen them two-faced on a few occasions, and if you know them better, they'll admit that some neighbors or friends aren't as welcome as they make out.
You have to be open and willing to adapt, because sometimes I have the impression that they take little from a farang to possibly make their life a little easier.
Don't get this wrong, it was never my intention to "westernize" a Thai.
Money is of course important to all of us, but in Thailand it is just a little more important, love is sometimes measured in euros.
For the rest I love this beautiful country and its lovely people dearly, until now I have always felt welcome there.
As soon as it gets a little easier I will be ready to go back to my “second home” asap.
Regards, Joseph
The atmosphere in Thailand has certainly changed in recent years. On the one hand, the country has become more accessible (not now), because the world has become smaller thanks to technology and the internet. The Thais are also exposed to these developments. On the other hand, Thais feel that their world is changing and tend to blame foreigners for these changes. The same applies all over the world, that 'the foreigners' have done it.
The government in Thailand is only democratic on paper and sees the democratic values that Westerners come up with as threatening to their position. She tries to keep foreigners in line with strict rules and regulations and where possible foreigners are portrayed badly. That Thailand owes a lot to foreigners is not highlighted.
A problem for many Westerners is often that they come to Thailand with wrong expectations. Thais strongly value their autonomy and are very nationalistic. Deep in their hearts, they see themselves as a unique specimen that they form together with their fellow Thais. To intervene as a foreigner is very difficult and perhaps impossible. When a Thai has to choose between a farang and a Thai, even if that farang is the partner, people tend to give the Thai the benefit of the doubt. After all, everything Thai is trusted and with such a farang you never know. The most important positive that distinguishes that farang is usually that he has money and the Thai often does not. People prefer not to think about why that is and what lessons you could learn from it. This leads to friction and disappointment. Because you used to not have a relationship with a Thai(se) and you do now, you may be inclined to think that the Thais have changed, but maybe only your relationship to Thailand has changed. It is frustrating that everything seems to revolve around money, but having money is more important in Thailand than in the Netherlands. There is no government there to hold your hand with if things go wrong. Family is the only thing that counts in relationships in Thailand and you don't easily become part of the family. It remains a bit 'East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet'. That was so and that is so.
Nicely worded, although there are always nuances.
The visitor of 30 years and more ago did not like meddling in the field of, for example, correct politics for what it's worth. In a country where you are on your own, you must always be prepared to shuffle or rustle, otherwise you will sell yourself short. In practice, many succeed, but partly due to foreign influences (outside Thailand blog visitors, it happens on many more Thailand-oriented websites) a mood is created. Thailand is quite conservative and that has advantages and disadvantages, but for now most people think it's best that way. Life sucks is a good mentality with the knowledge that there is always hope. The other way around can also take place and that is the game. Life is a game, right?
It would really be a lot more fun and more attractive for commenters to start themselves, Tino.
I will try to give my personal opinion about twelve years of full-time Thailand resident as honest a response as possible in civilized Dutch, so to speak.
Then you quickly understand that you have to learn to live with cultural differences, educational skills, opinions about foreigners and vice versa in whatever form, regardless of whether that spiral is downwards or upwards and both are present of course, but as I already indicated, that button is still always lost sometimes.
Often it is not the last direction of the spiral when opinions are adjusted, as most 'emigrants' move here with the wrong glasses on and a large number of Thais also view the foreigner differently than you thought. during your holiday period.
A few weeks if not a few months everyone can keep their face straight, can't they.
Certainties are considerably less present here than in the Dutch-speaking area.
Mother is present here in a different way, especially for a guest because you are never more.
There are quite a few things to mention that you say must always have a signature of a Thai, unfortunately it is.
Let me continue with one, one out of ten reaction is a big seven, while upon arrival I had an eight if not more in mind.
So positive with a critical load, but I thought that is another piece of Dutch culture.
Also taking into account the ups and downs in private life, because even though they actually have nothing to do with the country, they also happen.
Couldn't it have been better in the Netherlands than here the piece of writing 'at the right time and the right place' has to be correct and that doesn't happen here regularly, but often it does, but that doesn't really matter as far as location is concerned.
A Thai finds his piece of happiness abroad again for as long as it takes.
About 10 years already divided in my time between the Netherlands and Thailand where I have been happy all this time with an independent sweet woman who also regularly comes to the Netherlands. I have already seen a lot of beautiful things in Thailand in terms of nature and culture, so it influences your feeling about the country to a lesser and lesser extent. Many lovely people in the circle of acquaintances and a very cordial in-laws, unchanged over the years.
Over the years you get more and more experiences in daily life and you see more and more things.
You inevitably look at Thai society through a Dutch lens and the norms and values that you have built up, even though you know that you have to adjust them for life in a completely different society. Over the years, irritation has grown about familiar themes such as corruption, the exploitation of people, the uncritical hierarchical relationships, and the contrast between rich and poor. You see the omnipotence of politics, justice and hi-so, you see the beautiful nature being sacrificed to a completely uncontrolled pursuit of profit by those who are already so well off. You see the dollar signs in the eyes of the tourism industry getting bigger and with it the attitude towards tourism slipping.
For me it is now true that it is love that binds me to Thailand, but otherwise I would let it go.
We have discussed the option of bringing my beloved to the Netherlands, but family ties and her age to have to adapt to language and culture here again stand in the way.
Here in Thailand I only learned what "to have patience" is… usually to the point of death !
Initially with dismay and boundless annoyance but there is no choice.
Often all that patience has been for nothing, just patience for the patience because Thais simply force that of you. It is not constructive patience but resigned patience.
And that much patience also rarely changes something in the good sense.
The great majority of Thais like nothing more than to postpone things, yes, putting them on hold is better said. And even procrastinating endlessly in the hope that it won't happen again, especially things they dread. But fun and pleasure can always be done immediately, no patience is required for that….
The question is whether your request will be responded to differently than by a few. Such a question makes you think and it is not easily answered.
I think I could write a book about it, but I won't. My narrative reality is not too exciting, but I still want to share something. My experience with Thailand is based on 14 years of holiday fun and now six years of long-term residence, allowed under strict conditions by the authorities of Thailand. It is no sinecure to stay here, there is a lot to do. The debacle with the immigration police, to name but a few. Nonsense the way people work here with, among other things, annual renewals, paperwork and money beating. The amounts required for long-term residence are also disproportionate. I have a housekeeper from Myanmar and when you see the residence requirements imposed on that group, it is too absurd for words. That woman has lost almost two months of income in 2 years before her stay. Then there is health insurance and coverage which is a headache for many of us. Unless, of course, you have been in front of the queue with the distribution of money, then this does not play a role. The corruption that can also be seen here everywhere and for which a considerable part is not at all ashamed. The “beauty of the country” has also turned out to be a matter of habituation and, in my view, has been exaggerated. The Palm Tree versus the White Birch Tree. As far as I'm concerned, the Netherlands certainly has its charm.
I came to Thailand for my peace of mind, but that is regularly disturbed by both the Dutch authorities and the Thai authorities. The negative influences (cuts) on the pension and state pension may be assumed to be known. The people who read this blog more often know the hat and the edge of all conditions, so that does not need any further explanation. It's still annoying. Letting go of that is my problem and doing nonsensical things is not something I was cut out for, but you can't escape that here. You'll have to. What I have been against, other than from holiday periods, is to observe a certain mentality among the various population groups and in particular the Thai community. That (large) group has little interest in environmental issues and they are the best at making a mess. It is a mess in many places and almost nothing is done about it by the government. You also see a lot of violence among humanity and it takes little to ignite the fuse. Usually provided with small feet, but quickly stepped on their toes. The air pollution, cannot be filmed here. The traffic behavior that can be seen very negatively. Every day you see people doing the craziest antics and the dead and injured speak volumes. A certain group of tourists is also a thorn in my side, who only come for the prostitution thing and keeping the bar seats warm while enjoying alcoholic refreshments. This was fueled by the large supply of "cheap" prostitutes based on a lack of education, unequal prosperity and insufficient supervision of the relevant regulations by the authorities, who are also regular participants in this.
Thailand is the land of the Thai, but also the land of the Thai mosquito and they have often preyed on me, so every day I was itching. Rubbing body parts and spraying in the house to combat this costs hands with money and therefore only wear long pants and socks to be somewhat itch-free. I could go on and on, but there are also positive things to see, such as my lovely girlfriend and a nice group of Thai people who belong to my circle of friends and acquaintances. Being able to go out cheaply, the delicious food and these still keep it in balance for me. So I will stay in Thailand at least for the time being. Whether this remains the case, the future will show. But I have long since taken off the rose-colored glasses.
That Thailand has changed seems logical to me, just like the Netherlands has changed.
The whole world has changed just as we ourselves have changed.
When I set foot on Thai soil for the first time in 1979, I was a young man of 21 years old and I saw Thailand through a completely different lens than now.
Parties until the early morning in Pattaya, 2 times a year for 3 weeks to be the beast and then back to "normal" life.
At a certain point you will look further, a nice excuse because you can no longer sustain that destructive life.
The islands of Koh Chang and Koh Samui, fantastic in the early 90s, fitted in perfectly with the lifestyle I had then, I also met my current wife at that time, who comes from the Isaan.
The first time to the Isaan took some getting used to, there is little to do in such a village, deserted at 21:00.
But for those few weeks a year it was not too bad, but to live there permanently is another matter.
Until you are an old chap and you have many friends in that village and you also appreciate life there, now I wouldn't want it any other way.
The parties of the past have now been exchanged for gardening and working with the animals, making sambal with the woman and distributing it everywhere.
What I mean to say is of course Thailand has changed just as I have changed.
I sometimes hear; it used to be much nicer, probably because people like to forget the less pleasant things.
You used to sit with the family around an old coal stove breathing in coal fumes, on the table there was a glass with cigarettes and cigars instead of a cookie jar and the whole house was ice cold, I'm glad those "cozy" years are a thing of the past .
Certainly Thailand has changed, it remains for me a country where I have been for many years,
depending on the weather in the Netherlands
can stay very well at still reasonable costs.
This way you can use the best of both countries.
What sometimes gets in the way of this lifestyle I experienced early on , is too committed a relationship
I also have a relationship in Thailand for about fifteen years now,
when i am thailand stay with her house in the isaan.
if you return to the Netherlands for a four to six month stay there alone.
The relationship is based on good friendship with starting point
I help you and you help me.
For her and me it still works fine after all these years.
Finally I can say as we get older it gets better and better.
Final conclusion for me personally
Thailand is getting more and more beautiful for both of us.
Even if I talk about us last,
there always remains a secret behind her smile, which can never be discovered.
Better this way, you better not know everything, remains exciting what the future brings.
nice Tino that you ask this question in this blog. And it's also good that you didn't share your own experience in that area in the first instance. Then you will not get any responses based on your own experiences, but only responses based on your own observations. Of course I am curious about your own views on this subject. I've been going on holiday in Thailand twice a year for 24 years and of course I don't have the experience of the Farangs who have been living there for years. That is often a completely different story. My first experience in Thailand was: Wow what a fantastic country to go on holiday and that feeling has not changed after 2 years. I'm eager to go on holiday to Thailand again, but I'm not in it right now because of Corona. I'm really not going to quarantine for 24 days in an expensive hotel to have the last 14 weeks off in Thailand. That's not worth it to me. But when I look back after 2 years and also with my own experiences and the many conversations I've had with expats who have been staying there for a long time. Is my conclusion: Behind the smile that the Thai still had 24 years ago, it has indeed become a grimace at the moment. They are no longer the Thai of 24 years ago. Nowadays you have to be careful as Farang that you are not a “walking ATM” and that they assume that: Okay you are old and ugly, but as long as you support me and my family financial I will sleep with you and make you happy. If you do not have money anymore to support me and my family I will go look for another farang who can support me so I can have a good life. Might sound a bit harsh the way I put it now. As a farang, you always come second. Supporting family comes first. So actually we as farang are measured on how much you can contribute to provide a certain security for the future in the financial field. This is of course very generalizing what I am saying now. Of course, there are plenty of relationships that aren't based on that. But it does give you food for thought. Furthermore, Thailand remains a fantastic country to go to.
My first visit to Thailand was in 1976 and since 2011 I live with my Thai-born wife permanently in the countryside in the province of Ubon (Isaan).
What has changed the most in that time is, of course, the infrastructure. In 1976, for example, only one airline flew to Ubon with only 2 flights per day. At the beginning of this year there were many more airlines and flights and also to various destinations, not just to Bangkok. The road network has also been greatly improved and last year, for example, the unpaved road where our house is located was changed into a concrete track. And 40 years ago it took us three days by car to visit an aunt in Nakhon Phanom from Ubon, with two overnight stays in Mukdahan, nowadays that is easily done in one day.
The city of Ubon has expanded greatly in those years and land prices have shot up. For example, my parents-in-law gave away a piece of land to a temple that was located outside the city. That temple has now been swallowed up by the city and the land given away should now yield tens of millions. Fortunately, as far as I know, no one has made a fuss about that missed legacy. The rural character of the city has also changed considerably with its Central Plaza and large chain stores and DIY stores. But the residents have largely remained the same. You can also see that in the traffic where most people don't seem to be in a hurry and, for example, there is a slow acceleration when the light turns green. What has recently become noticeable are the many delivery services that are available today and time is money there and you can clearly see that in the way of driving.
What is also striking is that cycling has become popular with the city residents in a few years and that it is practiced by young and old, men and women. This is probably because little physical work is done anymore, at least in the city. Football is also popular and since a few years there is even a full-fledged competition for the over-50s (is that also the case in the Netherlands, I wonder?) and there must be at least three over-57s on the field in each team . Again, it is almost exclusively the city dwellers who practice this sport. On the other hand, there are also many city dwellers who have started using fast food, which is unfortunately also visible in the increased size.
But in the countryside? Little has changed there, although the youth often try to find work in the city and few are willing to go into the rice fields. The food is still traditional and still partly comes from nature. The houses have also changed little and the beautiful houses that you can see here and there are really not inhabited by the rice farmers. The local markets have also remained the same with females sitting on mats trying to sell their produce alongside more professional market vendors. And those markets are still the main place to do your shopping, at least in rural areas.
Most striking, however, is the influence of the Internet on the population. In particular, it has made the students aware that there is another reality than what they learn at school. This is clearly visible in the student movement. But what also strikes me is that they use the internet, Facebook and YouTube in particular, to teach others – often selflessly – something or to learn something themselves and then apply it. For example, my wife uses it to try something new in agriculture and horticulture and she is certainly not alone in this. But many teachers are also active on the internet. For example, I know about a hundred sites where teachers try to teach Thai children English, often in a playful way. If I've seen a hundred, there must be thousands. Does that also happen in the Netherlands? Don't know.
I also know someone who was inspired by the internet to build a perpetual motion machine to generate electricity. Not a real perpetual motion machine of course, but a device that had to tap an unknown energy source. Unfortunately, he was unable to rid the world of a problem. But the same man was not only a copyist of ideas, but he also designed himself, using a drawing program, a relatively complicated machine to make building blocks from clay that, after drying, could be used to build walls and even houses. And after the design, he also built the machine and it worked perfectly. He has put the construction drawings and a video on the internet so that others can also use them.
What hasn't changed is that people are still nice to me, young and old, male or female, it doesn't matter. And when they come to visit, for example, you shouldn't be surprised if more people come than you expected. For example, a few days ago a befriended couple came by with son, daughter and daughter-in-law, but also with a girl next door and a friend of the daughter. But they had brought food and drinks, so no problem. And as for the food, the father had brought minced fish with him to make hamburgers on the spot. He does that often. But what I didn't know until recently was that he does that especially for me because he knows I like it. And what I also didn't know was that it takes him six (!) hours to make that minced meat because he uses a fish with a lot of bones for that and that fish has to be chopped very finely so that the bones do not bother you.
They are really nice people those Thai, still.
I came here in Thailand in 2006 with a group of students from my Dutch university as part of some kind of exchange. Working here, I heard that I had been given the job as dean to shape the implementation of the Bachelor Hospitality Management program. So after returning to the Netherlands I had to arrange my final departure to Bangkok. So move.
As part of that international exchange program I had already been to Indonesia and China, but Thailand had something special: the colors, the smell, the atmosphere. Everything eastern but also a little western. Among the regular writers on this blog, I am one of the few who still works full-time, and then as an employee of a Thai boss. This means that I come into contact with many Thais not only privately but also professionally, I work at a Thai university where the corporate culture is rather Thai-coloured. When I look back on all those years, working here in a Thai corporate culture has changed my thinking about Thailand quite a bit. I could never have imagined that bureaucracy, cronyism, incompetence and arrogance would have such a disastrous effect on the quality of education and that it is almost impossible – on rational grounds – to do something about it if you disagree with things (and this is increasingly the case).
In my opinion, whether your thinking about Thailand changes due to your private situation has a lot to do with the qualities, openness, interests and networks of the partner with whom you live. If you live with a nice Thai woman or man who is mainly at home or has a small job in her own village/city, has no political interests (other than watching the news on TV) and whose network consists mainly of relatives and friends from In your own village you don't get much of the changes in this country at home. Your own status is also linked to the status of the person you live with or are married to, so that it is not easy to move independently in other networks. (especially if you don't work)
I know what I'm talking about because I've had two Thai partners in Thailand and I can judge the difference. A middle-class woman, working for a Japanese firm, with her own house and car but a very limited network consisting mainly of relatives and Thais from her native village who all worked in her brother's company in Bangkok. I am now married to a Thai woman who is a managing partner of a company, who has networks at home and abroad (and not with the smallest people on this planet) and who regularly gives me a look behind the scenes of what is happening in Thailand at the highest level. I must admit that at first I was surprised and didn't believe everything she said. But repeatedly she tells me things that are in the news the next day. Now I am no longer surprised by her stories or by the content of those stories. The problem is that I can't really talk to anyone but her about it because either I'm not believed (how could a foreigner know that? Also on this blog where I'm constantly asked to cite written sources) or because the information is inconvenient , is secret and may cause problems for those who know or read it on a blog. There are two sides to everything that has happened in this country since 2006. And often only 1 side of it is extensively exposed. And because all these sources copy and paste each other, we all end up believing it.
Dear Chris,
Your view of Thai society is of course different from most of us. And that of course makes it interesting. But a small caveat:
Around here – just outside the city of Ubon – there are several universities and government institutions. The people who work there, especially those in somewhat higher positions, often come from other parts of the country and are therefore less able to fall back on their old networks, family and old friends. And if they decide not to live in a house on the company site, they buy a piece of land and have a house built on it, often in the middle of the farming population, and then build a new network there.
My wife returned to Thailand after living in the Netherlands for almost 40 years, but not in the city of Ubon where she was born, but outside the city in an area where no family lived and no old friends. She therefore also had to build a new network, which now consists of both the “ordinary” farmer and the somewhat higher official. That she – and I – get a look behind the scenes is of course not the case, but such a strict separation between networks that you seem to suggest is probably more applicable to Bangkok than to the countryside.