What are your thoughts on Thailand, how have they changed and why? An evaluation and my experiences
Last week 15 people answered these questions. Let me give a summary of that, a short analysis and finally my own experiences in this. I cannot do justice to all the comments and will only mention the most common ones. There is a wide range of views and that seems fine to me.
What has changed?
A few comments struck me. For example, someone commented that you sometimes have wrong expectations about a country where you are visiting or going to live or work. Over time you will naturally see 'changes'. Others indicated that they themselves had changed in recent years and that affects the way you look at Thailand. This then leads to the question to what extent the country has changed or to what extent the relationship with the country and its inhabitants has changed. It's hard to give a number to that, it will be a bit of both. Some thought that Thai attitudes toward foreigners had changed: less friendly and more focused solely on money. Foreigners would be less welcome and would steer the country in the wrong direction.
I found it special to read that your vision of Thailand can change if you choose a different partner or place of residence.
Changes that I can confirm concern the infrastructure. The rural character is increasingly changing into an urban environment, although the countryside has remained more the same. The internet has permeated everywhere and the consequences of this can be seen in recent demonstrations.
What is the same stayed?
There the prevailing opinion, with a few exceptions, is that the Thais have remained friendly and nice, and that foreigners are welcome. Many things have also remained the same in the countryside
Getting to know a new country
The speed and extent at which someone's ideas are influenced and changed vary from person to person, but broadly speaking I would describe them as follows:
Usually the first acquaintance with a new country is a pleasant experience. The new country evokes feelings of admiration, interest and pleasure, sometimes with extraordinary veneration. The country is exotic and very special, with nothing to compare it to. Some keep wearing these glasses, but more often that changes after a while. One has negative experiences, for example food poisoning, polluted sea water, having to pay a bribe, being ripped off, encountering grumpy, nasty people and so on. These can be personal experiences (something you experience yourself) but also things that friends say or that people read in the media. Ultimately, the combination of positive and negative experiences leads to a more balanced view of the country. It's different for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. It is something we can talk about together in order to (continue to) adjust our own judgment.
Wai (puwanai / Shutterstock.com)
My changed insight in the past 20 years
My own thoughts about Thailand have changed over the years as well. I've started to think darker. Let me briefly describe how my thoughts about Thailand have changed.
I have always enjoyed living and traveling in Thailand. I appreciated the people and, strangely enough, did not see much difference with the behavior of people in the Netherlands. The people were all different: there were good, nice, smart, stupid and mean people. The differences are superficial, often fun to experience but not really important as far as I'm concerned.
In 1999 I migrated to Thailand, a very favorable year and not only because of the three nines. There was a new and good constitution, the economy was doing better after the Asian Crisis of 1997 and a new government made health care available to everyone.
In the years that followed, my attention was mainly the life of my family and myself. We lived 3 kilometers from the nearest village, in the middle of a 10 rai orchard with a view over rice fields to the mountains that separate us from Laos. In July 1999 our son was born. I worked in the orchard and planted several hundred fruit trees of all kinds. I can still see those beautiful trees in front of me, but to my regret and frustration I have now forgotten the Thai name of a number of species. I learned the Thai language, volunteered, taught my son Dutch and enjoyed life. I dismissed the nasty things I saw, such as poverty, gambling, drinking and corruption with 'Oh well, there is something everywhere and I don't interfere'.
The turnaround came, I think, after the bloody crushing of the red shirt protests in 2010. I started to wonder how something like this could happen, I started to read and think more. That was reinforced and facilitated when I divorced in 2012, left my idyllic rural existence behind and moved to Chiang Mai with my son. I had access to more books and more people to talk to about it. More free time too. My son no longer wanted Dutch lessons because English was difficult enough and I no longer had to prune trees. I started writing and kept bothering the readers of this blog with quite often negative stories about Siam or Thailand. I hereby offer my sincere apologies for this.
As for the divorce, it went smoothly. My partner and I agreed that we were both guilty of our alienation from each other. We divided the matrimonial property fairly. She allowed me to have custody of our son. And we have remained friends. Our son often visits his mother, and we also see each other regularly. So there is no bad blood. Here too I saw the good side of Thailand.
Finally, this: everyone's opinion about Thailand is different. Accept that. Don't tell someone else that he or she sees things completely wrong, but if necessary, oppose it with your own opinion. Explain how you see things yourself, without accusing others of everything. We learn more by exchanging insights together. Let everyone do his/her best to learn more about our beloved Thailand. And there is nothing wrong with helping Thailand in your own way.
I sometimes wonder if negative experiences are not the result of the inability to communicate.
Why learn Thai when you have a wife who can speak for you?
Or expect a Thai to communicate with you in English in their own country; yes of course, if you are a tourist on vacation for three weeks, but not if you live in Thailand.
And how does it come across to the Thai, if you don't want to bother learning Thai?
In fact, by not learning the language, you are indicating that you have no interest in interacting with the Thai.
In my many years in Thailand, with few exceptions, I have had nothing but positive experiences, including with government agencies such as immigration.
In some cases I was even given more space to do things than the Thai themselves.
I think, ruud, that there are quite a lot of people who have a fairly good idea of Thailand without knowledge of the Thai language. But with knowledge of Thai you can gain a better understanding of the thinking, feeling and behavior of the Thai people. What I have learned is that the Thais can be very different in this regard.
It is especially nice to speak Thai. I started learning it a year before immigrating to Thailand, the first day in Thailand I visited a high school to ask a teacher to teach me. I then followed Thai extracurricular education in all subjects. After a year I resolved to only speak Thai, in the beginning with many mistakes. Laugh.
The most annoying thing was that when I visited a store or an office with my wife, everyone started talking Thai to my spouse and ignored me. You can imagine how I reacted to that as a cheeky farang.
I miss Thailand, and my son studying there. Sad. Sometimes I regret that I stayed in the Netherlands.
I am Belgian and have been living in Thailand for 15 years now. I speak Dutch at home with my wife, she has lived in Belgium for 25 years. She doesn't let me speak Thai because I can't hear and pronounce the different pitches and therefore always say different things than I mean.
Rudy, that's right. I have been living/traveling in/to Thailand for thirty years now and have always adapted to the country and people, including by learning the language, although I will never reach Tino's language skills. After all, communication in the local language is the first step and then Thai people really don't turn out to be the dollar hunters you sometimes read about, although there are exceptions, but where not?
What Tino says about the political situation and the tough action of the government (not to use other words...) is a huge disappointment, also for me, but I put that against the situation in neighboring countries where things are no better.
Every government seems to be looking at big brother China, which can do as it pleases in the world in terms of human rights and seizing a sea and water resources in four major rivers from the Himalayan region. The reaction of one of the super-royalists that the protesting youth may be dealt with violently speaks exactly to the Chinese mentality we saw in Hong Kong.
There is nothing more changeable than man and the only constant is change. It is so, was so and will remain so. Upbringing, schooling, personal experiences all influence us as human beings. It is therefore not surprising that it is now being discussed in this way. Adaptability requires strong will and personal interest. Love, being in love can also play a role in this. Communication is always essential and there is a lot to gain from it. Keeping in touch with each other and being open to other opinions without attaching a value judgment to it is not everyone's cup of tea. A social heart for the necessary neighborly love, who dares to say this aloud of himself. If you know yourself then you are already one step ahead of those who don't have this in them. The lack or unwillingness to open up and engage in this is what I see in many. To dismiss one's own right and the rest as nonsense, who doesn't know this. Many books have been written in this area, but I doubt whether they will be in great demand. Carrying our own troubles has already filled in the daytime activities for many. I can't make anything more beautiful of it, even if I would like this so much. Humanity in its diversity and we will have to make do with it.
Well done, Jacques, I totally agree. Open up and don't judge too quickly. I do the latter sometimes too quickly, I admit.
Being open to other opinions (and cultures) without attaching a value judgment to them. A social heart for the necessary charity. Things that I already inherited from my parents who exchanged Indonesia for the Netherlands in 1950. They were Christians, spoke Dutch and knew Dutch dishes and eating habits. With their open attitude they managed well in their new homeland and gave 5 children direction and a future. I have taken their thoughts into my private life and also into my work. And now also 5 years in Thailand. As a result, I have become an enriched and happy person.
Nice idea everyone.
My brain works differently from others and at this age it is no longer possible to learn the Thai language in such a way that you can express yourself well with it.
The English language is also not for the majority of Thais so I live in an expat bubble.
Not bad for a vacation but a long stay?
This language problem is also limiting for the quality of a local relationship in Thailand.
In my case, not being able to communicate optimally is therefore becoming more and more a reason for me to possibly return to the NL.
But I live comfortably here so I postpone leaving for me.
I have been coming to Thailand for forty years. For the first time in 1980 as a backpack tourist (people then called themselves travelers). Then very regularly for 30 years, sometimes ten times in a year as a member of a German Lufthansa crew. My biggest hobby was computers and other technical gadgets. And here's where I saw a negative change. When I was still working, my regular shopping mall was Pantip Plaza. 15 to 25 years ago you could find everything there that you couldn't get anywhere and also super cheap. A Playstation was converted to play robbery copies, including 50 games for less than an original in the Netherlands, just to name an example.
Now, when I go there…there's hardly anything interesting to find. Also here in Hua Hin, a reconnaissance of the IT departments is worthless.
Prices are much higher than they used to be (comparatively) and everything you hope to find is not yet available or much more expensive than abroad.
Thailand has become more prosperous over the past forty years. More modern. But that is not typical Thai, that is a general development.
What disappointed me in Thailand was the development towards mass tourism. Of course it also brought in money, but I left the Netherlands to avoid being around Farang. When you think about 1980 and tourism and the kind of people who flew to Thailand until 2020, I'm almost grateful for Covid 9.
But for the rest there is little different than before…I really like being here…
I fully share your conclusion. I have experience since 1969. Women
all walked in "sarong" in BKK.
That changed when your Lufthansa, as the 1st, led tourists with
the new Jumbo 747. Men with bare chest and women in shorts
from that moment on, more and more people populated the streets of BKK, further on
they didn't come then.
Thailand has moved along with the times of the nations,
tourists (farangs) are responsible for this.
In essence, I think Thailand has not changed more than, for example, Nl.. The core is still Thai!, as I still Ned. am.
On all my travels through Asia I always came across a different country!
What has always fascinated me was being DIFFERENT. It's how different
always worth a study.
My motto was always: leave the Netherlands. with an open mind, what comes next is amazement. My wife and I still enjoy Thailand every year precisely because of it
still has its own character.
My Lufthansa has brought a very different kind of audience to Thailand than a Charter airline, an air China or any low-cost airline. Occasionally there was a primitive person, but in general you flew with Lufthansa if you could afford a more expensive ticket. But for the rest I agree with you!
Nicely and openly written and hopefully not inspired by impending doom.
Regarding the submission, I find the tipping point moment interesting. Perhaps that also laid the foundation for the divorce two years later?
I am and will remain in the stage of letting everyone have their own way and if they do not bother me or my family, then we are willing to lend a helping hand to those close to me, but then directing itself then imposed by a government and what that means I also feel this among many Thai people.
No, that was not the basis for the divorce. That was very personal.
That tipping point, the red shirt demonstrations and the bloody ending of them, shocked me and when I started reading more about Thai history, politics, Buddhism and so on.
Tino, I agree with you that the ending of the red shirts' demonstrations etc. was bloody and shocking. But what you did not mention and did not experience was the bloody and shocking violence of the red shirts. You were far away from the violence and I was in the middle of it. Shots were fired at police and soldiers, with fatal consequences. A grenade was launched at Sala Daeng seriously injuring people. Shops where I was a customer and houses of people I knew well were set on fire, even though they were not part of the conflict. Then came the decision of the government, after all attempts on that part to resolve it peacefully had failed due to some fanatics, to intervene violently. In my opinion, very justified. When the bullets, not only from the army, literally whistled around my ears, I fled. Politically, we are on the same side. People have the right to stand up for their interests and fight oppression in any form. And sometimes extra pressure is unavoidable. But if they follow the wrong types, such as Mr TS, and use disproportionate violence, then that's it for me.
I agree with you that there was violence from the red shirts side, as well as from the yellow shirts. Both that violence and the state's excessive counter-violence made me think. I'm not going to get into who's right and who's to blame. That's a different and more complicated story.
Luc, unfortunately this is the sad truth about Belgium… I am working hard to get my Thai girlfriend whom I have known and visited for many years to come to Belgium to get married and work hard, save and move after 5 years to Hua Hin. Hope it works because I'm afraid it won't be easy to get this done in this monkey country because I'm a white Belgian … if you know what I mean …
Well what can I say to this. I have not had any fines in the Netherlands in the past 10 to 20 years.
In Thailand against about 20.
But they were all justified, so I'm not complaining about that. But I'm afraid Thailand isn't the wahala either.
I think the winter months are a good place to stay, and I wouldn't want to miss the spring, summer and autumn period in the Netherlands. Mary to each his own.
Haha… the only fine I had to pay in Thailand was for listening to my girlfriend at the time (and now current wife) by making a U-turn in Hua Hin, where it was not allowed.
But I've had the most fines in the Netherlands and the heaviest ever in Germany… One of these three was justified.
If I drove in the Netherlands the way I did in Thailand, I would probably have my driver's license taken away. Starting to drive on the wrong side of the road….
What a beautifully and well-written piece.
Self-reflection and naming it is great class