Returning to Thailand was not so easy
The journey with daughter Lizzy (almost 8) to the homeland went almost without problems. Only Goldcar, the car rental company, had provided a Dutch telephone number. Try to achieve that at Schiphol with a Thai SIM card. However, the lady from Hertz let me use the landline without any problems.
I assumed I had rented a Ford Focus. It became a Fiat 500L, although larger than the normal model, but equipped with 6 gears. That takes some getting used to, after the Toyota Fortuner with automatic transmission.
The problems only started on the way back to Thailand. When checking in at Schiphol, the Emirates girl did not understand my 'extension of stay'. I tried to explain and point it out, but it still wouldn't sink in that I live in Thailand. And that single entry had a red stamp through it and was therefore invalid. In that case, too, she would not accept my statement that the Immigration stamp correctly indicated the validity'. So she went with my passport first to one supervisor, followed by another higher initiate. Finally I was allowed to check in.
Years ago I used the ABN-Amro lounge at Schiphol, small but cozy. As I was early for my flight to Dubai, I went looking for this lounge. It turned out to have been closed, just like the necessary foreign bank accounts with this bank. However, customers with the correct bank card may use lounge 41, Aspire. Certainly not a bad change, given the wide range of food and drink. Remarkable: the lounge has its own smokehouse, the size of a large broom closet.
When I arrived at the Marechaussee, the blonde bitch asked me where I thought I was going with 'that child'. I tried to explain that I was not trying to kidnap Lizzy from the Netherlands, but rather to bring her back to her native country. The MB (Marechaussee-Bitch) wanted to see papers. I handed over the package of documents, including permission from Lizzy's mother, copy of her passport, Lizzy's birth certificate and the statement from the Dutch Ministry of Justice that I was allowed to travel with Lizzy. There was no date on it and that, according to the BM, was wrong. I have to fill out and date the same statement every year. I noted that this trip was already the third time I left the country with her without any problems. The bitch: "I can't know that." Wouldn't it be possible to record this in the gigantic database of the Marechaussee? “Perhaps another man will leave the country with your daughter tomorrow,” she snapped at me. To which I replied: “Then you don't know my daughter….”.
All the while, Lizzy waited patiently. The bitch didn't give her a glance or ask her a single question. We left the Netherlands with a sigh of relief.
Arrogance at the top of the Mauchaussee. I can understand that they don't want children kidnapped. But if you have all the papers in order. Sometimes a little kindness is hard to find these days.
Last year I also went to Thailand with the Emirates
At the check-in desk they understand the extension for to stay for 1 year for Thailand which is not stated on the passport at all and called in a supervisor and again a higher rank and I also had to indicate my place of residence in Thailand.
I don't have any problems at all with the other check-in desks at other airlines
So since then I don't fly emirates anymore
Firstly, all the hassle around it and service on board is really pet and further on arrival in Bangkok suitcase broken
Nicely written as always.
Just one thing about that Marechaussee Bitch: Every year 1 children are “kidnapped” abroad by one of the parents. They slip through anyway. You can therefore not really blame the MB for its tight control. After all, it will only happen to you….
Sharp checking can also be done in somewhat friendlier terms.
Even a “regret inconvenience, but I have to execute you”.
In my experience, this almost always comes from both sides. Unfriendly behavior is rarely unprovoked.
To go through life without many conflicts, it certainly helps if:
1. You can/try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. “The traveler before me may be tired”, “that officer may have already seen 100 incomplete forms today” etc.
2. Can count to 3 before you take (re)action: be patient. Don't immediately go against something, let it sink in for a while.
3. A smile and friendly tone. “Hello sir, do you know…..?” *smile*” instead of “Hey, where is..?!” *sullen look*.
If both parties succeed, there would actually be no grounds for negative escalation (arrogance, bossing around, barking).
Although I was not there, I doubt that the officer was arrogant and grumpy at first. It is often the case that many people can react rather sullenly when they are checked extra carefully, well and then the woman behind the counter can easily be called a bitch.
Very annoying all, Hans. But human trafficking and kidnappings are common. If, God forbid, someone were to kidnap Lizzy abroad, you would certainly be very angry with too easy checks. Be happy with strict controls, no matter how annoying.
Does Lizzy also have a Dutch passport? My son did, and we went through all the checks together every year without any problem and without extra papers. Maybe it has something to do with surnames and gender?
Officially, according to international agreement (so both at the Thai and Dutch border/border guards), every minor must show proof of parental consent.
So whether a minor is traveling with dad, mom, or both parents (or guardians who have parental authority) doesn't matter. One could always ask to show that everything is right.
Logical in itself: whether Lizzy is called Bos or Na Ayutthaya and arrives at the border with a mister Bos (and possibly also mother).. no one can smell whether:
1. That Mr. Bos is actually the father: it could also be a brother of Hans or a completely different person who (coincidentally?) has the same surname as Lizzy. For example, a cousin may try to take the child with them, so the family name alone does not say everything
(and whether he has parental authority)
2. Although it is clear that 1 of the parents is at the border here and also has authority… how does the border guard know whether the other parent knows about it and Mr. Bos has not suddenly decided this morning to kidnap a child.
3. Even if there is a man and a woman in front of them and the child bears 1 of those surnames… The border guard cannot smell whether these are also both parents and whether they both still have permission and not, for example, by the judge or other authority has been deprived of awe.
So the border guard can:
A. Ask for proof of parental authority (even if you have 2 parents)
B. The other parent has given permission (if 1 parent is not traveling with you)
So in theory, every minor who crosses the border in Thailand, the Netherlands or anywhere else should be able to check whether everything is okay. In practice that will not be possible, if you do that with every child and if anything is not 100% according to the agreements, you will have long queues and children who will be denied their flight because a small thing has been forgotten somewhere on the papers.
See:
https://www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/reizen-met-kinderen
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten/formulieren/2014/02/06/formulier-toestemming-reizen-met-minderjarige-naar-het-buitenland
But good intentions aside, the KMar is of course allowed to address people in a decent, friendly and respectful manner. It won't be fun work stamping it in a box, but a little sympathy for the traveler is the least.
Only for outside the Schengen area, is that correct Rob V.? Not for Spain and all, I hope?
I don't understand why I was never asked about those papers. Must be because I look so trustworthy, unlike others 🙂
555 for sure. And yes, no control within the Schengen area (open borders):
“She also checks parents who only travel into or out of the Schengen area with a child”
– Kmar site
The other Member States also use this, at least in theory. Although in actual cases of child abduction you read that the children left via Germany, for example. I also wonder how a German or Polish official should be able to understand or appreciate the value of a Dutch form. Or is the Netherlands simply more fanatical/stricter with controls?
Short answer: the KMar has to set priorities. Not everyone can be checked thoroughly, there is no time or money for that. A mister chaste with a teenage son will fall less high on the scale than a mister chaste with a (young) daughter. Even if it may turn out afterwards that Mr. Chaste is not the father, but, for example, and Uncle who kidnapped the child. But the chance that the teenager will not let himself know that something is wrong will be greater than with a younger child.
At least that's what my feeling says. The KMar will certainly have instructions (risk profiles, etc.), but will they be made public? Whoever really knows can say so.
That's why she was so grumpy. They let too many bad parents slip through and that has to be taken out.
There is a lot to accept, but we are all human and that also means that one can start with a normal friendly question.
Tino and Rob, I had all the papers with me, including a copy of the mother's passport with written permission. And even the birth certificate, which clearly states that I am the father. Lizzy has a Thai and a Dutch passport, both with my last name. What else does a person have to do/show to be allowed to leave the Netherlands for the third (!) time. I'm not kidnapping Lizzy from the Netherlands, but I'm bringing her back to her mother.
Dear Hans,
not for anything but you really are quite an exception, traveling alone with your 8 year old daughter. The fact that she has a tan doesn't mean anything: it's swarming with colored Dutch children in the Netherlands. No one knows that you are just bringing your child back.
I actually say this because I'm jealous of you: Every year I go to the Netherlands, and every year my 9-year-old son refuses to go with dad for a few weeks. Not a step without Mama.
And frankly, I suspect this is the case with many children….
Then you had to deal with an ant-sniffing b*tch. I certainly don't condone her behavior. I do understand the fact that she checks for child abduction. It's great that she asks for papers, it's a shame that she complains about a missing i and it's sad that it was done in such a tone.
Dear Hans Bos, I had a similar case years ago when, after the divorce from my Austrian wife, I wanted to take our common son from Germany for a week's holiday to my hometown of Manchester (GB).
My son was already 13 years old and had his own German passport, which had the same surname as in my British passport.
Not even my ex's consent letter and my son telling me that I really am his father didn't allow me to check in.
After talking back and forth for 15 minutes, the German customs finally came along, who told me that the permission was not proof at all and could be written by anyone.
My son's statement that he was actually allowed to travel with his own father didn't help us either.
My last attempt to still be able to check in was, if my ex-wife was at home at all, that customs declared itself willing to conduct a telephone call with her, which fortunately succeeded at the last minute.
That's why Hans I can well imagine that just like in my case, with the risk of being late for your flight, you can become quite desperate with such a check.
I totally agree with you, Hans. If I or my wife travel with our daughter between Thailand and the Netherlands, a statement from the non-traveling parent always appears to be enough. Our daughter has my last name (although my wife and I "hook up" (so not married) and our daughter looks 95% Thai. She always carries both passports (NL + TH) with her. Never any problems. I do have a advice. If you bring a birth certificate, ask the municipality for an international birth certificate. It is also necessary for birth registration in both countries. Can that MB go and drink coffee.
Dear Hans Bosch,
In my eyes and mind you are perfectly within your rights.
You or you could also have said why she was allowed in in the first place
don't come from traveling.
Find it very crooked and don't like it when you can discuss the pieces, which is confirmation in itself.
A little more respect would have been in order.
Yours faithfully,
Erwin
Of course it's about the tone. At Schiphol, whether it concerns customs or the Marechaussee, this is too often substandard. I also hear it regularly from Thai people who visit the Netherlands. But the 'officials' in Thailand, much praised on this site, do not excel in customer or hospitality either, don't break my mouth! It will have to do with professional deformation, although that is no excuse.
The policy is getting tighter over the years, read a piece in a newspaper yesterday where it was reported that every day a child is kidnapped in NL, that could be a motivation.
Hans had his pieces ready so the lady could have been a bit friendlier, but they check everything and that's a good sign.
More than 20 years ago, my daughter came to Thailand alone when she was 14
No documents or anything else were involved ... nothing was asked at check-in ..
5 years ago my son the same at age 15. Had to hand in all kinds of documents and concents for the airline. Son had to be handed over by mother to airline representative and was handed over to me in BKK…
Return journey same story.
It's 'difficult' but given what can happen nowadays I'm not dissatisfied with it
When I read this story like this I detect a certain bias in the writer. It is not always easy to deal with an authority, I have also experienced that myself. It is often a matter of feeling and interpretation why a conversation goes wrong and annoyance awakens. This may be the case with one or both parties. Of course the Royal Netherlands Marechaussee has its instructions in this regard and it would be better to apply a method of approach to everyone involved. That sometimes people are checked and sometimes not is confusing and not correct. There should be a reporting desk where everyone concerned can report and be checked. Then you won't get crooked faces and you can prevent part of the annoyance. Apparently a paper was not in order and it was pointed out and that is apparently not allowed, because other Marechaussee people do not do this?? My experience of working for more than 40 years in the police force is that there are always people who keep complaining and say that you never do it right, of course there are reasons for that, but they are often personal in nature. Understanding is often hard to find and it always helps me to put myself in the shoes of the other person and look at the situation from his or her perspective. Don't step on your toes in advance, that's not going to work.
That this Marechaussee lady asks the question where the journey is going is very legitimate and she has an important monitoring task, as others have indicated before. Weak healers make stinking wounds and be happy that control is applied, even though this requires some extra understanding and time. Of course this is constructive criticism and I hope that this contributes to the formation of opinion and that the term Marechaussee bitch, whoever this concerns, can be omitted. Respect and understanding should come from both sides. Furthermore, the person concerned is free to submit a complaint and thus denounce this incident. However, I would adjust the language a bit because that immediately gives a certain coloring to the whole that is not desirable for the complainant.
I actually agree with you Jacques. We were not there, according to Hans Bos, the KMar was disrespectful to him from the first moment. We cannot check, for the same money Hans also seemed grumpy from the first moment and it further escalated with grumpiness back and forth by both parties. There are certainly civil servants who are not having their day and come across as arrogant: “Sir, you have not filled in that box and you are obliged to do so! This is not good." Vs “Good afternoon sir, thank you for the papers, may I point out that you forgot a box? That's actually normal, can you pay attention to that next time?” If the citizen then feels like he is being dismissed as a half-criminal and reacts irritated, things get out of hand.
Respect and kindness should go both ways. We are all not perfect so show some understanding for the other in the first place. No one is waiting for barking.