Cut down a tree (readers' submission)
There are several trees in our garden. Two palms grow too fast and dominate everything. So we decide to grub. How are things in Thailand. A brother of Nui knows someone without work, who gets a call and shows up the next morning. The deal is 500 thb for 2 trees. After a few hours of work, the job is done and the remains lie beside the road to be burned.
This reminds me of the garden in the Netherlands long ago. Due to prolonged rain, the ground was saturated and a tree hung crooked and was dangerous. So to the municipality with the request to cut down. That is not the case, an official said. Submit a written request and include a drawing with marking of the relevant tree and, of course, pay the fee, 200 euros. What else, I ask? The Tree Interest Foundation will make an appointment with you and come and have a look.
After a few weeks I get a call and a few days later two women in dungarees and knitted sweaters arrive accompanied by a man, who incidentally did not speak during the visit. I explain, they only listen with a single question. My offer of coffee and biscuit was turned down because of bribery threats.
Afterwards to the municipality to hear how to proceed. We have to wait for the advice of the importance of trees and then decide B&W, says the official. I ask innocently then can it be cut? No no, the decision will be published in the local newspaper and residents can lodge an objection up to 3 weeks after publication. Then the ax can go in, I hope. After 3 weeks I ask a farmer to do the job. Checkout 300 euros. And a replanting obligation of a similar tree is standard. And tree interest comes to check.
So I no longer wonder why the municipal taxes are so high. I know.
So in fact this is a lament to question the local municipal politics of the Netherlands.
Maybe you should think about the fact that it's a good thing not to just start cutting trees in the wild. It's a very sad state of nature, let's cherish it a bit, won't we?
The fact that virtually no laws and regulations are observed in Thailand has many advantages and freedoms. If this is a good thing I'll leave it in the middle. But please do not make a comparison with the Netherlands because this does not make sense.
Great story.
It's not about the window clerk, but the devil is in the dungarees.
Regards,
jos k.
Dear Robert_Rayong,
I do not agree with you that the comparison between the Netherlands does not make sense.
https://bit.ly/3JJDuJ9
robert,
If I understood correctly, this tree was about to fall over.
Curious… who will pay for damage if this tree suddenly falls over completely in this perpetual procedure and causes major damage to property or third parties.
I totally agree with the lamentation.
Laws… OK
Endless procedures and possibility of objections… PURE MADNESS
Clearing up a dangerously leaning tree better is of course the best solution. That this is possible here in Thailand without the necessary procedures and at democratic prices is indeed a good thing. This is also briefly explained by the topic starter.
What I do not understand, however, is that afterwards a long speech is held where there is extensive complaining and sawing about the municipal procedures and taxes in the Netherlands. What is the point of always wanting to compare your home country with Thailand?
Perhaps the middle ground is a good solution.
Not too much paperwork, but some supervision.
Costs of working hours in the Netherlands are simply a lot higher than in Thailand and civil servants in the Netherlands have a generous pension and social benefits, which also have to be paid.
We wanted to build a house in Isaan, had the building plans made by the municipality for a hefty fee and it was arranged within a few days, then built something completely different and it was approved by the same official who made the construction drawing.
Chopping down a tree is what my wife's son does.
Without any notice.
He also drains electricity from the electricity poles on the street.
Fortunately, we do not have a gas connection.
With previous comments from you in mind, I just think that with "Without any notice." meant that 'dear son' felled a tree in your yard without your permission and without even informing you.
Surely he was strapped for cash again?
In my rural neighborhood I have noticed that there is very little respect for everything that grows and blooms.
Indeed.
There is also illegal rubbish dump nearby.
The illegal charcoal burning in the field has also disappeared after many years.
With little respect for what grows and blooms I would like to replace with no respect at all.
I don't know where you live, but 500THB for two trees is probably very little. Here just outside of Bangkok you can forget about that.
Have a small garden shed repair. Should count on 2 to 3000Baht.
Wonderful story about the situation in the Netherlands, was doubled over with laughter.
Normally the family has a hatchet and do it themselves. Or an ax is borrowed from somewhere.
The Thai is really not going to spend 2000 baht for cutting down 2 trees.
Maybe in the bigger cities, but not in the countryside.
2 to 3000 Baht for a small repair to the gazebo?
Those service providers will be doubled over with laughter.
Regards,
jos k.
We are not philanthropists and do not have an axe.
We paid 1500 Baht for cutting down two palms. Were high, higher than our house, In Bangkok that is normal. Well in a different time, 5 years ago.
You used to have a real professional for 300Bht per day. Rate is now 700Bht!! Here in Bangkok.
The roof of the gazebo needs to be partially replaced and painted. This requires an electric saw and expensive materials. They must be purchased.
Everything has become shockingly more expensive. There is no price cap and everyone can ask what they want.
The AOW would be raised in line with the minimum wage. The IOAOW has largely been removed from that. Increase comes to 7.5%.
The phone at the SVB is red hot!!!
The writer indicates that with a few hours of work the job is done. 500 Tbh for a few hours of work is well paid for Thai standards if you realize that a daily wage in large parts of Thailand is between 300 and 500 TBH.
Indeed, that is the Netherlands. Thailand is so wonderfully uncomplicated.
Nice and uncomplicated until it turns out badly for yourself.
Driving piles with the result that your house starts to crack.
Neighbors who raise their ground so that in a heavy rain shower all the water ends up with you.
With us the sugar cane factory that emits so much soot that your clothes are covered when you walk outside and all chairs and tables are covered.
with us tha maka every morning soot in the shower
no one around responds.
They have someone in the family who earns his living in the factory
Not responding to something may be because many Thais have a very short fuse.
A senior Thai police official once told me that getting a conflict out of hand at Farangs happens in 3 steps.
According to him, the Thai misses step 2.
It is also the opinion that my wife confirms.
Hot baked people hidden behind a Buddhist curtain.
For the sake of convenience, I'll just refer to Wikipedia to show where that freedom leads. The story about the Netherlands is funny in itself, of course. Thailand's deforestation is one of the most intense in Asian countries. Between 1945 and 1975, forests increased from 61 to 34% of the country's area. In the 11 years that followed, Thailand lost 28% of its remaining forests. During this period, the loss was more than 3% per year. Between 1975 and 2009, forests decreased by a total of 43%.'
The fact that it is laid down in the Netherlands that you may not just fell a tree is not a bad thing in itself. As long as it concerns trees that grow outside your garden. But it still gets out of hand if you have to do that procedure for trees in your own territory.
Incidentally, I have already had two trees cut down in my old house in the Netherlands, without paperwork. Goes too.
Here in Thailand… a few months ago my pond was always full of leaves. At first I thought it was mine. Then my wife said that it was from the tree that has grown in a short time on a piece of land next to us. We immediately decided to do something about it. Neighbor wasn't home so we did her a favor and climbed over the wall (me then) with a chainsaw and started trimming the tree from above and then cutting it down completely.
The neighbor had no problem with it. Well, her cousin, who didn't live there at all, turned out to have been angry.
At least we were no longer bothered by that tree.
Just prune short.
And every year, even shorter, to the ground?
That is why they now have a shortage of staff everywhere and nowhere in the Netherlands.
Years of inventing jobs that are regularly filled by people who feel more at home there is starting to take its toll.
Preferably part time of course.
Some protection and rules wouldn't hurt, but people keep going.
Costs here in Thailand are of course more pleasant from a few hundred baht per tree to a thousand baht for the mango tree or more.
Sturdy wood is sold to charcoal merchants.
Questions about felling on private land [home garden] or it may not exist in my opinion, don't let them realize that there is a gold mine there.
Nice opening day by the way.
In the Netherlands, trees are cut down to maintain the so-called flat structure, as I understand from a documentary. This does not take into account the conversion of CO2 to O2 by trees.
Ever wondered where Holland came from and that turned out to be converted from Holzland.
In other words, Holland was full of trees, which were therefore cut down for war soils and VC ships, trees gone and therefore a flat landscape, which we now suddenly have to cherish. But how about cutting down a tree in your garden.
Our ancestors thought something different than we think now. But we don't think of bringing trees back anymore. Then we prefer to build data centers and especially not new houses.
Thailand is that easier. My wife had palm trees in her "little garden" and so did her sister next to it.
Had once said don't kill, because I saw other fields with sad palm trees.
So they do that with poison and is injected into the trees. Then they leave the tree and rot away on its own. Ok now you know that if you drive past such a field, poison.
The result is now, palm trees like a sip of water, there is now enough water for everything and a true jungle has emerged. Everything grows. Too bad, it looked pretty like a palm grove.
She could have changed a bit more calmly, but nope everything at once, family consultation, mainly mothers with input. Actually her country. Thai people also came, who stole the palm bunches, so finito.
Had no idea either, until I once saw the country via Skype and asked what had happened, although I actually already knew that. I had no influence with my “letting go”.
I now sometimes dive into the jungle with the bushmower to clear the spots where my wife has now placed new trees. She also helps herself and chops things up with a machete. She loves to do something other than her busy job as a labor department manager. No, rather with a knife than with a bought bushmower, which is for me. I'll do it, but it's a crime. And with a jungle it's like that, you cut it down and 2 weeks later it's back or something new. Must have something bigger, 2 wheeled tractor or something with mower, "garden" is too big.
What a squabble about the Netherlands and their bureaucracy. Here in Thailand, on the other hand, everything is allowed and can cause a lot of frustration.
You can lead a restless life here for years until suddenly a neighbor appears who can start any activity without taking the neighborhood into account.
Up to a certain point there should certainly be regulations in Thailand that one has to comply with. But a Thai does what he likes and does not care about others. I have regularly experienced, I have already moved 2 times out of pure misery, now my 3rd home has been built, hopefully it will stay a bit quiet here for a while.
I agree with you Kris.
I have lived in this beloved country for many years and the neighborhood where I live has changed dramatically throughout that time. And certainly not in a positive sense.
In the beginning it was very quiet here, lots of nature and few houses. Now it is fully built here, a lot of freight transport, a lot of independent activities, so anything but quiet. The only advantage is that our property has increased in value somewhat. But I prefer it differently if you ask me.
If you are going to live somewhere where the minimum price of a house on a compound is 5 million baht, then you don't have that bullshit.
Just outside of Bangkok with all hospital facilities and without daily family problems.
It costs a bit but it's nice.
Just like that saves you from noisy neighbors. You can have post EVERYWHERE, even in the more expensive moobaan.
A Thai (rich or poor) makes a lot of noise and you will be unlucky to have them as a neighbor.
Dear Johnny,
I wonder where you can find a decent home in a quiet moobaan in the outskirts of Bangkok today, all for 5 million THB.
I've been looking for something similar for a long time and for a house with a little bit of comfort you quickly pay double (I'm talking about the Bangkok area...).
Just for your information, after marrying my Thai wife, we also started looking for an affordable home in the outskirts of Bangkok. We would have liked to have bought something in a quiet moobaan because it has many advantages.
Our search has lasted more than a year. In the end we paid a lot more (11.5 million) than expected. The homes in the lower price range were either tiny or very poorly located. Our place now has 2 bedrooms and a (little) garden. All in all, quite a bit of money. The only reason for that is its location on the outskirts of Bangkok.
So that 5 million doesn't add up!
Work a few hours and paid 500 THB? Not cheap by Thai standards.
I have a Thai gardener who occasionally cleans up. He is paid 500 THB for a whole day's work (8 hours) and he is quite happy with that. My wife knows how to tell me that this is indeed well paid for an unskilled worker.
300 baht in Isaan for unskilled work is the standard I think.
Jan, Thai standards or local standards? That one is happy with 500 baht for a whole day and another does not think about getting out of his hammock for that is quite normal. Don't forget that there is unemployment in parts of Thailand and then every baht is taken.
Where I lived there was often bargaining and I never did that myself, but the price for a day job depended on more things than statistics or the minimum wage rules. Someone who has appointments will only want to postpone them for an extra reward, it turned out to me.
As soon as a white nose enters the picture, there are indeed no more standards.
I NEVER negotiate myself but leave this to the woman. And if possible, I don't even show myself. Others feel good when they 'can' pay 1000 THB for half a day of (unskilled) work.
No wonder then that they also like to maintain my garden. I usually pay the guy who does a perfect job about 1500 THB a day. Yes, come with comments, I know it's actually too much, but I also wish someone else something.
Dear Rob,
Here in Bangkok, for perfect half day garden maintenance you will not get anyone under 1000Bht and rightly so. They dispose of all the waste for it and that is not free either.
And give something to someone else? Definitely makes you happy.
Haha Andrew, apparently you pay well to dispose of your waste. And that this is not free is just nonsense. The waste is simply dumped around the corner for free and for nothing. I have yet to come across the first (paid) recycling park for green waste here.
And do you know what really makes a Thai happy? A Farang who pays them too much compared to the norm. A gardener for 2000 Thb/day…
You are absolutely right, Rob! I do the same. I don't care about those who think they have to pay only 300 baht a day to someone who is working for a day because such an amount is apparently in the Isaan norm. 500 baht a day is the same too little. Someone with a family who works 30 days a month makes 15K baht. In February that someone does not reach that amount, and in only 6 months a year he/she would be free for 1 day. I had 2 tilers working and paid 1000 baht per day per man. Last week someone provided my plants with water: 3 x an hour of work. I paid him 500 baht. I always fill up for 980 baht. The clerk always looks surprised but is happy with the 1000 baht note. Dutchman: they are not only known for their directness, level-headedness and the questionable habit of swearing with illnesses, but also for their tendency not to spend too much money. Stinginess is just as Dutch as wooden shoes, MDMA and chip walls, and the fact that splitting the bill is also referred to as 'going Dutch' is not because we treat friends all the time. It would be good to shake off Dutch habits.
What cocky behavior, who pays the best.
I have never paid per day, always per project with repairs, renovations or maintenance.
You ask what the wages are, state with a YES or NO what you think about it and possibly when they expect to start and deliver the project.
How people further divide the day or how many days is their package on.
I also don't have to be bothered by deviating rules of conduct, eat when you want or take a nap or, above all, start or stop working when you want.
New material is almost always separately purchased or stated otherwise.
Gardener is always including garden waste disposal.
william,
we are in isaan in the rural area.
We have had 2 large houses built in recent years.
the woman has never agreed on a fixed project price.
everything goes with daily wages.
I think that through a larger construction company it will indeed be with a project price.
Grumpy,
with us my wife determines how much is paid.
I think that is the case with many.
If I would pay too much, the woman says that there are enough people who have no work and no income.
Let's give them some money.
Often the family passes on what the daily wage is, of which my wife determines in consultation with the family whether that is in order.
Some family members are construction workers themselves and they know the prices.
And as for Hoand's stinginess. We have already built 3 houses for the family . farm land and have been providing financial support for 40 years.
The Dutch are the ones who invest the most money in charities.
We may be direct and have a trading mentality, be able to handle money, be frugal, the stinginess is based on nothing.
My wife often says: Look at another one who is waving money and a poorly paid job at the supermarket in his own country.
Dear Khun Moo,
It's just what a fool is willing to pay.
Here in the house it is indeed the woman who determines how much is paid. When I read above that people are happy to spend 1000 baht for half a day's work (for unskilled personnel), then all reality is lost. Those people don't come to us.
I'm not stingy at all, but waving your money because you're a farang is even a lack of respect.
It is of course normal that prices in and around Bangkok are a bit more expensive than in Isaan, but mother knows perfectly well what a market-based hourly wage is for an unskilled worker, don't worry. The Thai who is proportionally paid a lot for his work will probably laugh up his sleeve.
So, you always fill up for 980 baht? What a strange amount…
I will soon introduce to my wife: Every refueling from now on 980 THB and no more baht! Those Farangs are so abnormal, aren't they 😉
Always keep practicing in the Thai language: kouwroipetsiep or เก้าร้อยแปดสิบ. Then tell your wife to offer phan bath พันบาท.