Are the Dutch looters?
We recently had a party. A cozy get-together with Thai women and their Dutch partners.
It was about anything and everything, a lot of chatter and above all a lot of fun. At one point I got into a conversation with an older woman, mid-50s. After talking about the weather, the food, the Netherlands is cold and wet, how did you get here, etc., her face suddenly fell and suddenly all Farang on the spot were denounced as looters of the worst kind.
Somewhat surprised, of course, at the word "looters" the thought crossed my mind that she meant that there were so many women from Thailand perhaps be hijacked by the many Farang? But she can't have meant that, because she had come here herself with a Farang, and she lived with it, didn't she? She was happy with him, she had said, so what was she talking about? Why the sudden bitterness?
I had already completely forgotten about it and many, I think, with me. Even my daughter frowned and looked at her with a look of "what are you talking about". It was not about the Farang in general, but about the Dutch. Our plundering past under the VOC. She was really angry with us that we Dutch have plundered half of Asia in the past. Actually I couldn't say much about it because my knowledge about the VOC is very limited or is stored somewhere in oblivion. Of course she is right with her remark, but to charge us for that now? We may never get rid of that stigma, I'm afraid.
I asked her how she got all that wisdom. You don't expect knowledge about the VOC from a Thai, do you? And yes. The integration course had taught her that. Research on the internet had taught her the rest about what we in Thailand, the former Siam, have all "looted".
Lost in thought, I later thought: “Would that integration course miss its target after all?” Wasn't it meant to be able to stand on its own two feet in our beautiful Netherlands?
If you want to read something about the VOC and Thailand: VOC site
It is a good thing that an integration course also gives an insight into our national history. In this way, Thai women who are going to live here with their farang get to know the Dutch mentality. I think that this means that the integration course certainly does not miss its target, and that it absolutely teaches our Thai women to stand on their own two feet. In any case, my wife does this wonderfully!
How Ghostwriter comes to think that the opposite is the case reminds me of a statement by my Thai wife: “Dutch people don't know their own history!” By this she refers to the tendency of the Netherlands to judge others by pointing a finger, and not wanting to see their own failures and flaws, even pushing them far away. Also domestic, see Groningen.
Looters: is of course a strong word, but profiteers were certainly (not only) the Dutch. In the 19th century, it was the Dutch East Indies (especially Javal) and the VOC that formed the cork on which the Dutch economy floated. This was the case well into the 20th century, and not only in the Netherlands. All of Western Europe, especially Great Britain, France, Belgium and to a lesser extent Germany) drew its wealth and government budgets from (South-East) Asia and Africa. What those countries have received in return can be measured by the democratic and socio-economic content of those countries in 2017. Just look at the economic decline and political developments in Suriname; what the situation is in Indonesia today, the misery that Vietnam and Cambodia experienced, the immense political chaos in South Africa, the famines in Central Africa, and not to forget the disorder in the Middle East and North Africa. All countries and regions have been dominated and left orphaned by Western European powers for decades.
Did it come to an end voluntarily? No, it took World War II for the colonial rulers to see that their "plunderings" had to end. In short: I think that Ghostwriter has been finely confronted with historical facts for a while, and that my wife is not far off the mark either.
I can't help but agree with you completely.
I often hear or read that the Dutch 'should be a little more proud of their history'…but the sides you rightly mention are barely mentioned or very indirectly….
……….and murderers.
About the murders on Banda by Jan Pieterszoon Coen:
http://wvi.antenna.nl/nl/nest/coen.html
Thai women will soon know more about Dutch history than the Dutch. I think that's wonderful…
Apart from a Thai woman I do know that even the younger generation of Indonesian women have learned quite a lot about this in history lessons.
With Thai, as patriots, this will also be a bit distorted in the history lesson.
After all, all farang are big angry white people, but little will be said about the abuses of Siamese ancestors in Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, etc. in the same Thai history.
Very little attention will be paid to the 2nd world war, given the adoration of Hitler and Nazi symbols by many Thai…
So well I think those Thai history lessons will have a bit of a double nationalistic content.
Would she have studied the history of Thailand/Siam as well?
Think that most falang also know a little more about TH than their TH partner.
So if the TH partner doesn't know much about NL, that compensates again.
I will certainly not defend colonization here, but I do want to say that the VOC did on a large scale what every elite of every country did. They were really no worse or better than the leaders of any other country. They brought good things as well as bad, just like today's companies do. Also in contemporary political systems you have the lucky ones and the poor bastards who benefit or suffer from the institutions.
And one more thing, to say that the whole world was liberated after WW2 is pure prop agenda for the civilian slaves. Power has simply been redistributed. Just look at all the dictatorships that are perpetuated in the current balance sheet, and the populations that are still oppressed. And Dutch oppressors? Just ask your Thai girlfriend why so many Cambodians, Burmese and Hill Tribers work illegally in the fish farms and factories or beg on the street in Bangkok. Is that also the fault of the Dutch? The reality is that there is always an underclass that is exploited by the elite, and the fairy tales on the news and in the integration course are the tool
The average Thai will not easily know anything about the VOC and the trade that the Netherlands, Portugal, etc. conducted. What counts is that Siam was a powerful nation with smart leaders who managed to keep out the colonizers with their power and money. If the Thais who do know something about the VOC draw some lines, they could discover that the elite of the Netherlands has indeed not always been tidy, but where? And that many elites in many countries have blood on their hands. A reproach to the Dutchman is then out of place, certainly not to us simple citizens with ancestors who were farmers and serfs. The bastard people as they were found and found all over the world.
But besides that, yes it is good that the people learn something of the history of their new homeland. Also fe less attractive aspects.
I was once with a ship of the Rotterdam Loyd, in the early 60s, in what was then called Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) and ended up in the Public Library there. I was approached by the Librarian and asked where I was from. Ah, the Netherlands. It turned out that the library was the former residence of the Dutch Governor in Ceylon. This man told me that 300 (three hundred) years ago Ceylon was colonized by the Dutch who were busy killing the population and were thrown out by the English for this reason. His next comment has always stuck with me which was "but I don't hate Dutch people". Three hundred years ago and never forgotten. I never learned in primary school during geography lessons, never mind.
Had acquaintances and a brother of my father who had served in the KNIL and they told me stories about what the KNIL was up to there, unbelievable.
The cultivation of coffee and tea was introduced to Indonesia by the Dutch during colonial times.
You can find on Google what the annual turnovers are in Indonesia and you will then see
that a lot has come in return.
Different times, different views. Fortunately, the Dutch world in which we now live is different, and why should we, in the time in which we now live, feel guilty about what ancestors did because they found it acceptable at the time. We do disapprove of such former behavior according to current views, and we do. I like to put my hand in my own bosom, but I am happy how NL is combating or at least trying to combat “looting”, facism and dictatorial behavior in the current time. That Thai teacher should also learn to put things into perspective and understand why history is being discussed……..yes, to show that we now have different views; something that the integration course also focuses on.
It is overwhelming that a “handful” of Dutch (English/French, etc.) could rule the whole world. You then have to wonder what the indigenous elite of those well-established areas did for their own people. These elites initially worked together with the foreign merchants, no shots were fired, that only came later when the (greed) selfishness (greed in English) got the upper hand. It is the greed of the original elite of the overseas territories that made it possible and that small group was quite easy to control and even exploit again by the farangs. were stopping.
In short: the original elite of the overseas territories made it possible and sold their own people
Oh that whining. Maybe I should also ask the Germans back the bicycle they stole from my father. And did the Germans ever pay for Rotterdam and the hunger winter? If I were to reason like the one in the piece above, I would have to start whining about the war when I meet young Germans. Weren't they there? So rude to bring it up. Same thing about that bullshit about the VOC. I never signed on there and even my ancestors never had anything to do with it
It is true that thanks to the VOC you can now live in luxury, and that the VOC then realized that luxury on the backs of the "natives". Or do you approve of the occupation of the Netherlands by the Germans because they built the highways in the Netherlands?
Take a look at human history and all nations have been "plunderers" in their past.
Check out this website and look up the accompanying movies.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Er_was_eens...
The voc also employed many Asians.
With the accusation that 'the whites' caused all the suffering in the world, they ignore that the large part of the voc crew also had a life comparable to that of a slave (many crew died during a crossing!)
Indeed the elite from Europe made deals with the elite from Africa and Asia, in many cases Europeans were more adept at creating profit, remarkable when you consider that many countries had a monopoly on certain products and customers; the netherlands france england portugal spain fought each other with fire and sword to be able to trade with those countries.
Incidentally, many products only became worth money in Europe. To me, countries that now lament that they have been looted because some shipments of pepper or nutmeg have been shipped from them seem very unbelievable.
in my eyes there is a hate propganda going on against whites , the worst is the whites who talk along with ( dark colored ( whose name we can not mention ) Asians , Muslims .
What strikes me about the reactions is that fortunately no one is justifying history, but at the same time a lot of people are pointing their finger at other countries that they have not done well either. True, but that's not what it's about, it's about what the Dutch did in the VOC era. Of course every country or population has butter on their heads, but it is good not to forget or distort our past.
Perhaps, but what is even more important is that we stop aggressively killing people NOW. Yet we are still involved in all kinds of wars and we still exploit people. If we have to talk about "we". Because that's not really the case.
What we lose sight of in all this is that the writers of the lessons for the integrators also have an opinion, that opinion has been formed in Dutch education. And we know from studies that history education at the Pabo in the Netherlands gives a negatively colored picture, arising from the political orientation of the teaching staff at the Pabo.
I would like to point out here that after the whites were thrown out of the colonies, these peoples themselves did not achieve anything. See the state of affairs in Suriname, which still receives money from the Netherlands and other so-called 'developing countries'. A further point is that I consider it completely unfair to test the conduct of the time against current standards. This results in incorrect results. It is better to test those actions at the time against the standards applicable at the time. And a third point I think is that the whites also brought a lot of good in those times and the qualification of 'looters' is completely unjustified. But I think this is due to leftist indoctrination. My own paternal grandfather was decorated three times by Her Majesty Queen Wilhelmina for his services at the Navy infirmary in Aceh. I'm proud of this!