Pitfalls for the expat in Thailand
Living and/or working in Thailand is an ideal dream image for an ever-growing group of foreigners, which is actually being realized by part of that group. Life for a foreigner in Thailand has many attractive sides, we read about that almost daily on this blog.
However, the decision to emigrate to the Land of Smiles requires good preparation, which you can also read about on this blog.
Yet it often happens that a novice emigrant encounters almost classic pitfalls and can therefore get into serious trouble. The expat, who has been living here for some time, can also suddenly be confronted with a problem that he had absolutely not taken into account. A while ago, the Bangkok Post ran an article listing the classic “mistakes” of the expat. Here is a short summary of those pitfalls:
Cost of living
The most common problem is that a foreigner, coming to live in Thailand, underestimates the cost of living. Yes, eating Thai food can be cheap and once you get used to it, it's nice and cheap. But if you want to eat Western food after a while, that can mean a considerable attack on your wallet. Prices in Thai Baht always seem low, but sometimes it is good to quickly convert to Euro and then come to the conclusion that the product you want to buy is actually more expensive than in your home country.
High initial costs
If you move from Europe to Thailand and rent a furnished house or apartment, it can be disappointing "furnished" by Western standards. To make it acceptable, say cozy, you will like to change and / or supplement the inventory to your taste. Costs that may not have been calculated.
In a rental contract for a house or apartment, a “deposit” is often required, an amount of money that enables the landlord to repair any damage at the end of the contract. It also happens that the tenant has to pay 3 or 6 months rent in advance.
The first period
Once settled on your new nest, the long holiday can finally begin. The foreigner then indeed has a holiday feeling and he also behaves like a holidaymaker. He enjoys his new surroundings, goes out and spending a Bahtje more or less is a normal thing. That holiday period can last longer than you actually wanted, with the costs not matching your planned budget. Thai men and especially ladies quickly realize that you are a "tourist" and will gladly help you spend your money "usefully".
The exchange rate of the Baht
In Thailand you pay with the Baht and to get it the foreigner will have to exchange money from his home country. How much Baht you get for, for example, the Euro depends on the exchange rate and it can change daily. That change can be quite large over a longer period of time, so it is important to take that into account. In the past 8 years, the Euro has had a highest rate of approx. 52 Baht and recently the lowest rate was approx. 37 Baht. If the expat had based his budget on that higher rate, he would get into trouble at the lowest rate. One should also consider how one exchanges one's money, because there are also differences there. Do you use an ATM, change your cash, have your money transferred from the home country, etc. It should be borne in mind that each method has its advantages and disadvantages, whereby different bank costs must also be taken into account.
Insurance
Many foreigners forget to take out proper insurance in Thailand. Especially if you have rented or bought a house, it is advisable to also arrange the usual insurance policies that were considered normal in the home country. This includes burglary, fire, household contents and liability insurance.
A really big problem can be health insurance. In the event of actual emigration from the Netherlands, the expat will usually no longer be able to rely on Dutch basic health insurance. In a few cases, a so-called Foreign Policy can be used, but a new insurance policy will often have to be found. This can be associated with high costs, while certain medical exclusions may also apply. This blog has already been covered many times.
Retirement benefits
People who move to Thailand, because their work is not tied to a location and it is of course pleasant to work in a pleasant climate, often forget to think about their pension. For the Dutch, there is first and foremost the AOW, which, as the scheme is now, is reduced by 2% for every year abroad. Once the time has come, it can mean a considerable attack on the spending pattern if one has not also taken private facilities.
Last will
It is possible that the foreigner has had a will drawn up in his home country. That is fine, but it may turn out to be insufficient if one also has money and/or possessions in Thailand. In the latter case, it is advisable to also have a will drawn up in Thailand. Without a Thai will, it will be very difficult and time-consuming for the next of kin to gain access to the estate in Thailand.
Postscript Gringo: There are more things that a Dutch or Belgian should consider when considering emigration to Thailand. On this blog there is constant attention for all kinds of aspects that need to be considered. I advise Dutch people to read my story (once again) “Emigrate to Thailand?” that I wrote in November 2011 and was reposted in March of this year. Nevertheless, I found it useful to highlight the pitfalls mentioned above.
Of course you have to put ALL costs and NL and TH next to each other and not leave out a part. Plus: what do I want to change there and not here.
If I want Singha beer every day in NL, with Thai curry rice and shrimps, I'll also pay blue. And in TH if I want Kips liverwurst, Duvel beer, Beemster cheese, and Ketellapper gingerbread, it gets really expensive.
As far as TV is concerned, RTL and NOS also become a bit more difficult, unless with a high speed internet connection (not what the Thais say, but what they actually deliver).
The potatoes, kale and peanut butter can be stolen from me, along with the cold weather, the inaction of the police and judiciary and the weeks of waiting times for medical specialist help.
Don't forget the extra costs of visiting (grand) children and real care if you become dependent.
And the Thais.. give you only one right: pay. Never count on a setang of clemency or compassion.
You will have to put all those pluses and minuses against each other. Moving from Breda to Brasschaat is already a major consideration, but to a different part of the world, culture and climate altogether.
All expats who get sick and need medical attention are treated in Thai state hospitals, even if they don't have anything to eat. The Suan Dok hospital in Chiang Mai alone owes 5.000.000 baht from expats who were helped there and could not pay. That will be no different elsewhere. That amount will be borne by poor Thais. Your remark 'never count on a satang clemency or sympathy… from the Thai' is categorically incorrect.
It is precisely for this reason that the governor of Phuket last year called for compulsory health insurance for expats.
The article about homeless foreigners in Thailand is a hot topic on the net and articles about it have appeared in both well-known English-language newspapers and Thai media.
And there are more and more voices in Thai political circles to adjust the visa legislation, apparently partly due to others' unwise behavior.
The comment about estimating the cost of living is extremely correct. A side note regarding. the health insurance. If you are married and your name is on the house registration {in case you have your own house with your wife] you can qualify for the so-called golden card, which means that you can use the 30 baht scheme. It is often overlooked that in addition to an income of 1000 to 2000 euros per month, capital is needed to buy land to build a house on it. And without a car it will be tough in Thailand.
Foreigners cannot register on a Thai tabian job, the blue registration booklet in this case.
And most Thais I know do not want to be treated in these kind of hospitals, and for serious treatments they are referred to more expensive private hospitals, so health insurance is a must there.
The capital to buy a house with money from the foreign partner, a document is signed at the land registration office that this money is a gift to the Thai partner and is therefore her money and land.
This has nothing to do with the right of residence in Thailand as a foreigner as well as the right to a 30 baht card to use their health facilities as a foreigner.
Of course you can also rent a house or condo. And you can also finance a car.
If you have an income of approximately 2000 euros / 80.000 baht per month, that should be doable.
Bit dependent on the region. In Pattaya I spent more on rent than in Khonkaen, but in Pattaya I didn't have a car, just a hassle and everything was around the door anyway. In Khonkaen, one of the first things I bought was a car, just because you drive more distances.
In terms of living, you usually have to spend some money on furnishing, and certain luxury things are simply expensive in Thailand. Buy a new flat screen TV, for example, you sometimes pay 500 euros for it in Thailand, while that model has not been for sale in Europe for years. And if you want a recent model, you will lose 2500 euros, so you can continue for a while.
What I think a lot of people forget is that your lifestyle in Thailand has changed considerably. As a result, your spending pattern will also change. Life in Thailand takes place much more outdoors, so you automatically spend much more money than you did in the Netherlands. Especially if you worked 5 days a week in the Netherlands and have the whole week off in Thailand, you quickly start looking for things to do and that usually costs the most money in Thailand 🙂
The latter also depends entirely on location. In Pattaya, the money in my pocket evaporated. Even without doing really crazy (night out on Walking street only 1 or 2 times a month for example) In Khonkaen life is a bit quieter and I spend less there per month despite car etc.
Would it be possible to explain to us how a Westerner who is financially solvent can obtain car financing in Thailand, although the majority of applications are refused, especially since most banks in Thailand do not want to give a credit card to a farang who has has the necessary money in the Thai bank account.
And the visa emblem on the thai debit card is not a visa card in itself.
Rice farmers from Isaan who don't have a nail to scratch their ass can get a car loan faster than a farang that is solvent.
And if that car financing is approved, what kind of interest is one talking about if one does not have a Thai partner?
You could even say that financing a car (and taking out a loan for the purchase of a house) is one of the pitfalls referred to in the article.
Yesterday, just for fun, I checked again with the sales staff of the City-Credit card. Of course with my wife. Nice conversation with my best Thai, and their best English. It pretty much comes down to this: Actually, the credit card is not intended for farang. He usually already has cards from his own homeland banks. So it is actually not possible for the farang to get hold of a credit card, unless he is willing to deposit an amount, at least 1 million baht, into the contra account. Further questioning shows that the bank does not automatically assume that the farang will indeed receive/continue to receive its monthly income in Thailand every month, that the bank does not automatically assume that the farang will stay in Thailand for a longer period of time, and that it it is not clear to the bank why the farang who has access to larger amounts (e.g. to deposit into the contra account) does not simply pay in cash or by debit card? In short: why the (wealthy) farang necessarily wants a Thai credit card is a bit illogical to them.
It is not possible for a farang, living with his (married) partner in a house financed or not, to be entered in the blue house book (tha biean job). The farang please request its own yellow booklet at the municipal office.
It is not possible for the farang to qualify for Thai health care under the 30 baht scheme. (Unless the farang has Thai nationality.) Occasionally you will hear on this blog that a farang has succeeded (I'm thinking more of 'slip of the tongue') but the generally applicable regulations do not allow this.
When we moved, the first mistake we made was the visa. We had an annual visa O and were so simple to think that it was valid for one year. When we found out that we had to apply for a retirement visa, the fine for my wife and me was 20.000 baht each. And no one was there to tell us beforehand.
WE took out health insurance, at least for me. My wife faced so many exclusions that it was of no use to her at all (ruled out all bone problems, as well as pancreas, due to type 2 diabetes and liver (because of previous gallstones. Etc. And when she got cancer a few years later, she was that very expensive, due to monthly trips to Bangkok
Annual visas do not exist, apparently you had to leave the country every 90 days and come back in every 90 days and before you do this you must buy a re-entry permit, both single, double, or multiple, otherwise your visa is no longer void. valid.
If you had done everything according to the book you could stay in Thailand for 15 months.
An annual visa does exist (although it has been difficult to obtain since the beginning, as I experienced. I am still waiting for someone to confirm that he received an OA visa in Belgium-Antwerp this year - 2013).
The annual visa in question is the Non-Immigrant visa OA with multiple entry. Upon entry you will receive a stamp for one year and you only have to comply with the 90-day reporting obligation.
Thanks to the multiple entry, you can go in and out as often as you want. So if you want to leave Thailand after 5 or 9 months, you can. You will receive another year's stamp upon entry.
You can actually stay in Thailand for 2 years with this visa if you do another visa run just before the end of the validity period of the visa and therefore get another stamp of one year.
Cost is just like a visa O Multiple entry – 130 Euro.
This subject has often been discussed on the blog. Of course your way of life will change if you go to live in Thailand for many expats that is also one of the reasons to live in the Land of Smiles. It also makes sense that it costs money. The fact remains that you must have a certain minimum income to be able to lead a "normal" life, eating and drinking and living is one of the basic things you should be able to do, but that is also the case in the Netherlands. Still, I believe that if you live "normally" as you do in the Netherlands, you can do more with your income in Thailand. If you cannot make ends meet in Thailand with an income between 1500 and 2000 Euros, then you certainly cannot do that in the Netherlands, as the total cost of living is much more expensive there. If you are retired in the Netherlands, you will not spend all day behind the geraniums, if you do, you do not want to be cold in the house, so the heating has to be on about 6 months a year and that is not free either. It is all very individual if you go out every day yes then it goes fast but that is also no difference with NL.
Before claiming with such aplomb that certain things are not possible for farangs, Bebe would do better to do some research. Bebe's total misconceptions make me assume that she/he does not live in Thailand because Bebe is completely unaware of what is possible for farangs. I am registered in the blue book as well as some other farangs I know. The treatment in government hospitals is excellent. All my farang acquaintances use this, although it is too bad for our honor to use the golden card. Married to a Thai In Thailand my money is also hers. I did not have to sign a declaration for building a house, but I did have to sign a declaration for land purchase {not that this is a donation, but that I will not make any claim on the land in the event of my wife's death}. BA writes sensible things. Indeed, you can finance a car with an income of 2000 euros per month. On average, people pay about 11.500 baht per month {Car approx. 700.000 baht, term 6 years, low interest of approx. 3%, these low interest rates are regularly advertised }. I have never been denied car financing, nor a real credit card. Since not everyone has access to 2000 euros / month, I have mentioned the desirability of some capital. From 1988 to 1995 I had an annual visa. The condition of the 90-day notification has now been introduced, which can, however, be made in writing. This problem no longer exists once a residence permit has been granted. I agree with ChiangMoi that life here is still cheaper than in the Netherlands if people have reasonably adopted the Thai way of life. However, if one wants to live here like a Dutchman with European products, life is expensive because imports have sky-high import duties. There must be something wrong with Bebe, that she/he has so many problems with her or his finances in addition to the pertinent nonsense about life rules in Thailand.
A foreigner cannot register on a blue tabian job so the Thai blue house registration booklet, he can get a yellow tabian job for foreigners.
A foreigner is not eligible for the 30 baht card for medical treatment in Thai hospitals, he can be treated there provided he pays the full amount. A foreigner married to a Thai national who works for the Thai government can be insured with his Thai partner because they receive health insurance from the Thai government.
A residence permit is not necessary to complete the 90-day notification obligation at immigration by post. mixed up. And whether I live in Thailand or not is irrelevant.
Egon, Bebe
Take a look at this link regarding the yellow and blue tabien track.
Be sure to click a Thor Ror 13 and 14 link on the page.
They give an explanation whether or not it is possible.
http://www.thailandlawonline.com/article-older-archive/thai-house-registration-and-resident-book
Just a small note though.
My experience is, when it comes to Thailand, statements like, can't or shouldn't,
best to avoid. Before you know it you have to come back to it.
Dear Ronny, thank you for this link.
I read it and still have a question:
I am married to a Thai woman and we live in our own house in Thailand and are staying there permanently, me with a Non-O extension or whatever it is called.
Am I now considered a “foreigner with official residency in thailand having their permanent home at the specific dwelling”?
If so, then am I eligible for registration in the blue house book?
Dear Henk,
It will depend on how people want to view you in your whereabouts I suppose.
One town hall will therefore credit you in blue, while the other will give you yellow.
I know those who are in the blue, and I know those who are in the yellow, notwithstanding that they reside here in the identical manner.
The yellow is the most common among foreigners, of course, because it is meant for them, but the blue cannot be ruled out.
In tourist areas where many foreigners live/stay, people will have more experience with foreigners and you will encounter the blue less with foreigners.
On the other hand, in places where few foreigners live, people may not even know about the existence of the yellow, so you end up in the blue anyway.
Ultimately, it is of little importance whether you, as a foreigner, are listed in a blue or yellow book. One does not give you any additional rights compared to the other because for foreigners this is nothing more than just proof of address that you sometimes need to obtain certain things and where proof of address is requested.
However, whether you prove this by means of a blue, yellow or a “letter of residence” makes little difference.
Henk, if I am overlooking an important point why a blue is so important, please feel free to let me know, of course, because from your question I suspect that it is important for you to be in that blue.
A system has been devised for the less wealthy Thai people, their families and relatives, allowing them to use the Thai healthcare sector in an accessible manner. Every time a Thai visits a hospital he pays 30 baht. For less serious matters, he goes to a doctor who practices in private practice, where he spends 2 to 300 baht for a consultation. He must then pay for medicines, aids and bandages himself. And all this for a daily wage of 300 baht.
Because of the costs, he therefore only uses a lot of herbal drinks, stimulants, patch and horse remedies.
It is for the latter reason alone that it is crazy for a farang to rely on government hospitals to qualify for cheap or free medical care. Never contribute anything to it, but do benefit from it, and keep care away from those for whom it is intended, plus deposit the bill elsewhere. I assume that the story of farang who managed to obtain a “golden card” is untrue, and that after help and care they are presented with a hospital bill, as happened to me and many other farang.
To avoid pitfalls in many areas, the preparation before farang decide to settle permanently in Thailand includes calculating the possibility of purchasing decent health insurance. The need for such insurance should be a top priority and guiding decision-making.
The evidence for my Rudolf/Bebe comments is on the table in front of me. Ronny has now announced that registration is indeed possible. Ronny, I do not need to consult the link for this because the registration is in front of me. I can also add that I have a {permanent} Thai driver's license, a joint bank account with my wife and an account in my name in Bangkok for purchases and sales have Thai effects. Bebe still persists in his denial that farangs cannot qualify for the 30 baht treatment. Once again the golden card in my name is on the table in front of me. The fact that Bebe is extremely poorly informed is also proven by his comment “Residence permit not necessary for the 90-day reporting obligation”. Not only have I never claimed this, but as I am in possession of a residence permit I can inform Bebe that this reporting obligation does not apply to me! Can Rudolf/Bebe give me a reason why I would want to provide incorrect information? The Thailand blog deserves to provide helpful, useful and correct information to its readers! Why do Rudolf/Bebe not accept the truth? Perhaps because they are prevented from taking advantage of existing opportunities, which make life in Thailand more comfortable, for certain unmentionable reasons? This should not mean that readers are deprived of useful information. Given that I continue to deny my comments against my better judgement, I am of the opinion: Deeldum est Rudolf {can he explain to me why he adds Khun to his name?] and Bebe{ although in fact I cannot blame him for the translation of his name implies that he has not yet attained the gift of discernment}. By the way Bebe: living in Thailand would probably make you more informed, hence my comment that you probably don't live in Thailand.
Dear egon, I am going to reply to you, and I assume that the moderator will allow this, because of the principle of rebuttal. In your comments you make it seem as if writing the name of a farang in the blue house book of his partner is the most normal thing in the world, here in Thailand. As you can read in RonnieLadPrao's story, that is not the case. Farang who would like to have their own confirmation of their home address will be able to request their own tabienbaan. The color that goes with it is yellow. Thus it is clear to all Thais that someone with a blue book in his hand is a Thai, and someone with a yellow book is a farang.
I too spent a number of years with my wife in her blue house book with name and surname. After we settled permanently, bought a house, and arranged the papers according to Thai custom, the official on site also indicated that registration in the blue house book could no longer be the case, and a yellow one was arranged. See here, my dear wout, this is the usual course of action and so please present this procedure to the (new and interested) readers of Thailandblog, so that it is useful if they (want to) stay in Thailand.
The advantage of having your own yellow booklet, over registration in the blue one, is that it provides more and earlier access to certain 'possibilities that make life in Thailand more comfortable'. For that reason, I therefore like to remain more nuanced when it comes to Thai customs, habits, protocols, procedures, officialdom. After all, as RonnieLadPrao (he is completely free to use this name!) says: one thing being arranged, doesn't mean the other doesn't happen either. But pointing people in the right direction is not wrong.
The remark on your part that you have a permanent Thai driver's license is a suit from the same cloth. Farang are eligible for an initial provisional driving license for one year, after which a further one is issued for 5 years. And so on, unless….!
This also applies to Thai people who are applying for a driving license for the first time. Unlimited is no longer possible for them either. It is possible that you have been in Thailand for such a long time that you have previously obtained a driving license with unlimited duration. But that does not apply to current Farang. By which I mean that your situation is not indicative of the situation of other farang, and so please do not pretend, dear egon wout, that it is all the most normal thing in the world.
I also think that farang who use the Thai 30 baht health care should take a good look at whether they are doing so well. Actually, I'd like to use stronger terms, but I don't think the moderator will allow that. See my earlier response. But if you don't need such a card, why do you have it? To brag about it? Good luck with it!!
Unfortunately, after my comment above, I see Rudolf's comments regarding the golden card. Point was: is it possible for a farang to obtain such a card. The answer to that is yes! A second is whether the farang also uses it, but that was not the point of discussion. As mentioned, I do not use the golden card, read my comments on the matter. Once again to deny this seems to be a phobia. To accuse me so clearly of untruth I consider not only insulting but unprecedented stupidity given the evidence before me. By the way, my neighbor who lives further away also has a golden card. What really lacks any understanding is the complete misconception that farangs do not contribute to the Thai economy or the state treasury. Through the tax system, my contribution is greater than that of 90% of Thais.
The opinion that a farang makes an additional contribution to Thai society through indirect taxes is an insulting idea fixe to Thailand. On an absolute level, this amounts to several thousand bahts per year in, mind you, 7% VAT, to be paid on the purchase of goods and services that 'enhance a comfortable life in Thailand.
A large part of the quoted 90% of Thais earn no more than a few hundred baht a day in the informal sector, and have completely different concerns than the farang who with a fixed monthly income in Thailand are concerned about how to provide for themselves again today 'of a comfortable pleasant life'. The farang has just left for Thailand to avoid the tax system in his own country, and thanks to not paying the country's taxes, among other things, he can be here and let it hang as broadly as possible.
The other part of the aforementioned 90% of Thais has not been climbing to the level of the 'middle class' for very long, and for them the concept of tax on income is still looming.
The fact that farang simply belong to the 'middle class' level does not give them the right to brag, especially when you consider that farang made the choice to live in a country with lesser socio-economic relations.
That he is happy with it, but restraint is not a bad attitude.
We close the discussion. Thanks for all the responses.