Tax news: The Netherlands is negotiating an amendment to the tax treaty with Thailand
Tax news: The Netherlands is negotiating changes to tax treaties, including with Thailand, and from this year you can also apply for a provisional assessment online or request a change.
The Dutch government is constantly negotiating with other countries about (new) tax treaties. In the overview published quarterly by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs lists the countries with which negotiations are currently underway.
In addition to the overview published by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Netherlands will enter into new talks in 2015 with Iraq, Mozambique and Senegal. In addition, the Netherlands will continue discussions already initiated with Belgium, Canada, Germany, France and Thailand. The aim of the negotiations is a new or amended tax treaty. Such a treaty contains agreements that should prevent companies or citizens from paying double tax on the one hand and that no tax is paid on the other. This is achieved by dividing the taxation rights between the Netherlands and the other country in question.
Read the full message here: www.actuele-artikelen.nl/overige-artikelen/banden-belastingbelastingen-in-2015/
Apply for a provisional assessment online or request a change
This year you can apply for, change or cancel a provisional assessment for the first time from 21 November using an online form.
From 21 November 2014 you can choose how you want to request, change or cancel a provisional assessment for 2015, using the Request or change provisional assessment program.
Read the full message here: www.actuele-artikelen.nl/inkomstenbelasting/voorlopige-attack-2015-aanvragen-wijzigen-of-stoppen/
The tax treaty between the Netherlands and Thailand dates back to 1975, so I don't think it's surprising that there is talk about adapting it to the times.
It is correct that there are Dutch people living in Thailand who do not pay tax on their income either in the Netherlands or in Thailand, but I would like to know how much money the Netherlands misses due to the non-taxpayers.
In my opinion, that amount is amply exceeded by the medical costs that the same group of Dutch people have to spend because they have been kicked out of Dutch health insurance.
It would be better if the Netherlands negotiates with Thailand to add Thailand to the group of treaty countries, so that the Dutch can be insured again in accordance with the Health Insurance Act.
Moderator: comment on the article and not just each other.
That would indeed be nice. However, should that be negotiated with Thailand?
I wonder whether those negotiations will turn out to be beneficial or unfavorable.
From 2015 it seems that expats in Thailand will lose their tax credit in the Netherlands.
In practice, this means less AOW and problems for expats with only AOW.
Perhaps this will be overcome in the negotiations, but I am not optimistic about it.
Gringo is right. I think that a large part of the group in question (who do not pay tax) would immediately run into problems if they suddenly had to pay tax and were obliged to take out health insurance in the Netherlands. The group in question is probably already insured here and cannot cancel the insurance immediately. So pay twice? Moreover, they will then be able to run into an insurance policy in the event of illness, which casually says that it will not reimburse costs for treatment in Thailand. Only in a hospital designated by the insurer in the Netherlands. So you also have to buy a plane ticket and wait and see which hospital you end up in.
Finally, the question is, of course, whether such a thing is legally possible. In law you also have something like acquired rights and the principle of trust. In my case, I have a tax exemption issued by the Dutch tax authorities for my pensions.
In the first instance, the Thai government will levy tax and if that is less than the Dutch tax burden, the Netherlands will also levy it for a while.
I do not think that the Thai government is now waiting for extra work. So it won't go that fast, because the Netherlands will gain little or nothing with this, but a lot of hassle.
The benefit goes to the State in 99 out of 100 cases. Don't be under any illusions that our government will come up with suggestions that will not benefit them.
After all, many do pay taxes, ABP pensions, etc., but cannot make use of the Health Insurance Act, for which taxes are paid and the healthcare costs are also paid. In this case it cuts on 2 sides and the burger in question is the one that gets cut.
If what you say is true (in 99% of cases the benefit goes to the State) then I assume you mean the Netherlands. Then the question naturally arises: “why would Thailand cooperate?”.
Thailand then has only a disadvantage. After all, the Dutch living here receive less income and can therefore spend less in the Thai economy.
So I expect little interest from the Thai side to adjust the treaty. Unless the Netherlands agrees that Thais living and working in the Netherlands will henceforth pay taxes etc. to the Thai government. And then it may turn out to be lead wrapped around old iron.
The current government in the Netherlands is on the warpath. Every option to collect more tax dollars is currently being investigated. People see that as a Dutch person with an AOW benefit you can get by well here (although, even if you are ill?) and they may want to address that. Everyone who receives AOW benefits will suffer in 2015. In my case that is € 42,00. Pension benefits will also be lower due to changed legislation.
Will the abolition of tax credits be limited to 42 euros?
That's not too bad then.
Text tax authorities changes 2015 :
Do you not meet all the conditions? For example, because you pay tax in the Netherlands on less than 90% of your worldwide income? In that case you are a non-resident taxpayer. In that case, the calculation of the income tax does not take into account deductions, TAX DISCOUNTS and tax-free allowance. For example, you may no longer deduct the interest on the loan for your owner-occupied home in your tax return.
Which Dutchman can live on his Aow here??? . Well Henk you can count on me for that.
That is someone who has no insurance at all and no car.
you forget that you have to replace everything in your home and that costs you 400 euros per month.
And life with 2 will cost you at least 1000 euros. And then I'm just talking about Thai way off life.
And if the poor Dutchman has to pay more tax here,
Or receive less state pension, half of the 100.000 Dutch people will return to the Netherlands
And then there is a very big problem. Housing.
I can get so annoyed with all those people who constantly talk in the government's alley.
The Dutch government doesn't care about us.
Every country has health insurance for foreigners in Thailand, but not the Netherlands.
The Dutch government is pursuing everyone around the world
Shall we first wait 3 years before we get angry? Because I don't see it coming sooner. These kinds of cases take years to complete and the Netherlands does not have a means of exerting pressure.
Norway has already managed to do this and you can read that in the tax file for post-actives under question 8. I expect this will certainly be added.
I've been following Thailandblog for a while and since I've been married to a Thai for 15 years, I find the articles very interesting, regards Kees
Dear people, I would like to draw your attention to the news page of the SVB about the new amounts for 2015. I read there not a reduction but an increase in the amounts (well, increase) but in any case no reduction, and if you also have the time If you decide to read a little further on the AOW deductions page abroad (Zvw contribution) abroad, then you might know a bit more, quite nice to read.
Payment overview
Below you can see the latest payments. At the top is the next payment. All amounts are in euros.
AOW pension Period Date of payment Net
January 2015, periodically
On the payment date, the SVB will transfer your money to the bank. Depending on your bank, it may take a few days for the amount to appear in your account.
expected 15-01-2015 1027,57
December 2014, periodical 15-12-2014 1024,80 Details
November 2014, periodical 14-11-2014 1024,80 Details
October 2014, periodical 15-10-2014 1024,80 Details
September 2014, periodical 15-09-2014 1024,80 Details
August 2014, periodical 15-08-2014 1024,80 Details
July 2014, periodical 15-07-2014 1024,80 Details
I googled the following:
“Thailand tax credit tax return for foreign taxpayers 2015”.
There I came across a forum site of the Philippines with a calculation of the state pension in 2015.
According to that calculation, due to the expiry of the tax credits in 2015, 766 euros in tax will have to be paid on the AOW, where it was 0 euros before.
The calculation is based on state pension only.
I do have doubts about the tax rate (5,85%) they use.
I think it should be higher.
But that only makes the difference bigger.
how do some people come to the conclusion that everyone keeps their health insurance when they leave for Thailand. As a Belgian you have to continue to pay taxes in Belgium plus a contribution of 65 euros to an invalid and health insurance fund every month, all for nothing, rights never heard of, only duties
It turns out to be difficult to find the way to the 'Tax file for post-actives'.
Look in the left column. Go to the file, follow the link, and look for question 17. There you will find everything about the changes in 2015. And as far as paying on AOW is concerned, that depends on the amount of that AOW.
The reason for writing this is that I wonder if people are currently realizing how much the 2015 changes will cost them.
And that the measures could force (many) people to return to the Netherlands.
That seems like an important topic for a forum.
It's almost 2015 already.
Sorry, that's where my calculator goes wrong. Editors, dThe previous post should read….
If the AOW has been paid before December, you can see on the SVB site with your DigiD how the payment will be in January. Many can already see that, I have to wait until the 24th.
People with company pension for which they have an exemption in the Netherlands need not fear before 2015, they do not yet have a tax burden in NL.
People who have an AOW and state pension can calculate for themselves how much they will receive less. The tax credit disappears from their net income.
People who make use of the optional scheme for resident taxpayer status will lose out more. It is more difficult for them to calculate this themselves, but I cannot imagine that these are such amounts that you may have to reverse the emigration; After all, the Netherlands is much more expensive, just go and look for a rental property.
I'm not a tax star.
I can generally follow the calculations, but I can't think of them.
But if I'm correct, you start with a gross AOW.
The tax is calculated on this.
Finally, the various tax credits are deducted from this, insofar as they do not exceed the amount of tax.
If all tax credits lapse, will you still lose the total amount equal to the tax credits?
Not the amount of the tax credit multiplied by the percentage of the rate bracket?
Just with random amounts, because I don't know the actual numbers.
So suppose you receive over the AOW of 10.000 euros.
And suppose you have to pay 1.000 euros in tax on that.
Then the tax credit of 1.000 euros is deducted there and you pay nothing.
If the tax credit expires, you simply have to pay 1.000 in tax.
So a loss of 1.000 euros.
And returning to the Netherlands does not have to be a voluntary choice.
If your income for Thailand becomes too low and as a result no longer meets the requirements of the immigration authorities, you will be thrown out of Thailand.
Ruud, you missed my correction of 11.11:10.17 am. I have already asked the editors to remove that first part from XNUMX am. I entered the calculator incorrectly. Can happen.
Furthermore, staying here does not only depend on income. There are 2 other options such as money in the bank, 8 tons of baht for a number of months, or the combination arrangement of 8 tons of baht together if you are talking about an extension for retirement. You can read that in the visa file in this blog.
In this way you can only live on state pension here if you also have assets to supplement for daily life. And I know people who get by on 1.000 euros AOW without additional income, but then you shouldn't get sick or break a leg. I don't measure life here by the size of the big city, but by life in the country.
Just a question or an answer who is the lucky one who has an AOW of 10.000 euros ruud, I have not yet encountered that, the entire payment of the AOW is on the http://www.SVB.nl side and there is really no 10.000 euros.
Tony,
There are several I dare say. I receive EUR 11.000 p/y in AOW + holiday pay. Or do you sometimes think that people receive EUR 10.000 per month? No sure?