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Home » Expats and retirees » ING Bank: Define Fiscal country of residence
ING Bank: Define Fiscal country of residence
Posted in Tax in the Netherlands, Thailand tax, Expats and retirees
Tags: tax authorities, Country of residence for tax purposes, ING
A number of ING Bank account holders have received the above letter in response to an earlier letter to determine the country where the account holder would pay tax.
The text is self-explanatory, yet it is remarkable. For example, it says that the Dutch tax authorities pass on the data to the Thai tax authorities. That's just not true, because the NL tax authorities normally do not pass this on to the Thai tax authorities. Or now suddenly? Foreign….
I don't understand the problem.
Based on the tax treaty between the Netherlands and Thailand, you only pay tax in 1 country. If you pay tax in Thailand, you must collect that data and then send it to the Netherlands, for example for exemptions. Quite a hassle sometimes. I would be happy if both tax authorities exchange information so that I don't have to follow up on everything myself.
No Chris it is not correct what you claim. If you have AOW and/or an ABP pension, these payments will continue to be taxed in the Netherlands according to the treaty. However, if you receive a company pension in addition to your state pension, you can apply for an exemption from the LB levy here. If you have received that exemption, you must file a tax return for this pension in Thailand and if it is high enough, pay tax on it, although less than in the Netherlands. So it is quite possible that you pay taxes in both countries, because I do this.
Dear RobHuaiRat,
That's not quite right. Since a month, I have had black and white from the Tax Authorities that I also receive an exemption from payroll tax on my ABP pension. I already had that exemption for my company pension.
Chris that paying in only one country is not true.
It is true that both countries must comply with the treaty, but then you may be required to declare in both countries. If you have both NL state pension and NL company pension, you pay on the state pension in NL and Thailand may tax the company pension. Whether you actually pay in Thailand (= making the cut…) depends on the Thai system with deductions, exemptions and a bracket at zero percent.
Some sources of income, including the state pension, may be taxed in both countries. Then you can apply for a deduction in the Netherlands due to double taxation.
Although I am not a customer of Ing.bank Ned. I do want to respond.
Determine tax residency!
Will the Ing.bank take the place of the calling service? And will then pass the data on to the
Dutch tax authorities, who would then have to do this to the Thai.
A GOSPE!!
The Thai call service does not know what to do with these messages due to no command of other languages and throws it in the bottom drawer! End of story.
The Ing. The bank will first have to shut up and not let the Dutch taxpayer pay for mismanagement and money laundering in order to be kept afloat! Let her keep her own nest clean. Should the top be richly rewarded again this year 2019? Give the taxpayer back in proportion and don't put it in your own oversized pockets!
Ruth can never do anything about it. It is only when there are problems that taxpayers' money is used.
“Only not true, because the NL tax authorities normally do not pass this on to the Thai tax authorities. Or now suddenly? Foreign…."
There is a first time for everything.
I assume this has to do with money laundering and tax evasion.
Banks have to check everything that they may not even be able to check at all, but for which they are held responsible.
Probably ING, in cooperation with the Dutch tax authorities, ensures that the Thai tax authorities are aware of who should pay tax in Thailand.
With that they have put part of their problem on the plate of Thailand and they have to see what they do with it.
And if the Thai tax authorities do nothing with it, it is in any case no longer the responsibility of ING.
The fact that the tax authorities are involved may have to do with privacy.
ING is probably not allowed to provide Thailand with information about the Dutch account.
They may/must do so to the Dutch tax authorities, which can then provide that information to Thailand.
In my situation, the Tax and Customs Administration says that I am liable for tax in the Netherlands because I have a Dutch employer.
Since I do live in Thailand and have deregistered from the Netherlands.
As far as I know, the CRS system does not apply to Thailand at all. So there is absolutely nothing to report to the Thai tax authorities.
attached link of countries that will exchange this report. List as of April 2019.
Thailand is NOT on it.!
Maybe intend to start drawing but not yet!
http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/international-framework-for-the-crs/MCAA-Signatories.pdf
In this case, no response yet from anyone to the keyword “CRS” in the letter. This has been written about before on this blog. Thailand will soon follow countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia and, for example, all of Europe before. Everyone can continue to complain about ABN-AMRO's position since the end of '16, now ING or any other NL bank. But in the end they all have to conform to this Common Reporting Standard, including the digital Binqs and Banqs, etc. This means that they want to know in which country your primary residential and/or economic interest lies. Is that country A or B (or even C)? Suppose A, then all mandatory taxes in B (or C) can be deducted for A, because double payment is not necessary. But keeping gray to get out of both the A or B (or C) obligations is of course exactly what they are trying to combat with this.
For tax purposes, the country of residence is the country where you live half the year plus one day. It does not mean that you have to live in the Netherlands for 6 months plus 1 day. February does not have 30 days and July and August have 31 days. So you can play with this. It's a matter of good math.
Martin, what if you choose to live in TH for 4 months each year, 4 in NL and another 4 in Australia. Do you then have to pay no more taxes according to your statement? Can't imagine it's that simple...
I already received a similar form from Rabobank in 2017
Also with the announcement that the tax authorities in my country of residence will receive this information
Just fill in and send. I have AOW AND ABP, nothing more
Received mail from Rabobank Utrecht afterwards
Forgot to fill in my foreign telephone number
Directly arranged of course.
Never heard from again
If you open the link ing.nl/crs, specified in the ING letter above, you have all the information regarding the question about tax residency and there is no need to fantasize. As far as I know, Thailand has also agreed to participate in the Common Reporting Standard (CRS), but will not be administratively ready for this until 2022. Thailand has not yet been named as a participant.
The UN (OECD) wants everyone to be taxable and offers the possibility to combat tax evasion. And to close it administratively, people, including the Dutch, want to have the Tax income number (TIN code). It fits so nicely in a database. but what if you do not receive a Tin code because your income falls within the Thai deductions, then the tax authorities will not give you an exemption from payroll tax.
Lammert de Haan already has 2 administrative law cases pending, which will hopefully be assessed by the court before the end of the year. Hopefully, Lammert will want to report the verdict in Thailandblog in due course. incidentally, the ned. tax authorities can also realize the relationship with other tax authorities via name, date of birth, address, but yes it is so easy if everyone has a number pfff ..
Data exchange between tax authorities has long been possible through mutual tax treaties.
Whether Lammert gets it right, I hope so, but according to art. 29 of the constitution already gives treaties of, among others, the UN priority over national laws.
They give the impression that the tax authorities need them for registration. ha ha ha
Since a negative interest rate is coming, the expats, on whom they hardly earn, are a block on their leg.
That is why ABM Amro also sends those kinds of threatening letters.
They are already looking for where they can remediate in the portfolio.
The next letter will undoubtedly refer to a cancellation / contract / termination of the account because because you live abroad registration tax address blabla blabla.
And the honest citizen (customer) neatly fills in that ING note,
calmly allows the pension to be halved due to the mismanagement of the ECB and banking industry,
and will pay 10 Euro for a crispy sandwich in 45,00 years without a murmur.
Having money and working hard is punished.
Not working and having no money is rewarded.
Try explaining that to a Thai….
list of countries participating in data exchange as of April 2019.
http://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/international-framework-for-the-crs/MCAA-Signatories.pdf
Thailand is (YET?) not participating.
Another link from the OECD as of September 2019.
This contains a list of countries for which: no date has yet been set for the automatic exchange of data. Thailand is also included in this list. Thailand is not yet participating and no date has been set for it to participate!
https://www.oecd.org/tax/transparency/AEOI-commitments.pdf
Belgian and not an ING customer.
I got this few years ago from my 2 Belgian. banks also had that question , this is a precursor for the crs reporting .
I made it clear to them that I only pay taxes in Belgium through my pension, and also sent them the OECD list on which Thailand was not/is not on, and not yet (test phase apparently around 2022 because of Thais). So my tax country is and remains Belgium.
Received a confirmation that it is therefore not applicable to me (us).
Years later again the same question, then emailed the same explanation with attachments, but now to their legal department (Axa, Keytrade bank)!
Then received an email with an apology that this was because the question was sent to all foreign customers as standard, hence, no more questions about it now!
Can understand that the banks are not going to investigate the legal situation for all foreign addresses, unless you make them aware that you live in a non-OECD country.
I do have something to add about recording the country of residence for tax purposes.
I also received this letter by post.
Completed and returned immediately.
Reception took 2.5 weeks.
Afterwards it turned out that I had forgotten something when filling in the form.
Then suddenly I received the same document via email.
I could also send it back via email.
In 2019, isn't it absurd to still have to receive and return such documents by post?!
I download the document, fill it out, print it out, sign it, scan it and send it back via email with confirmation of receipt.
I can't make it easier for the ING, tax authorities, etc.
Why easy when it can be difficult, once one has emigrated.