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Home » Expats and retirees » Large pension funds in serious trouble: 77 billion euros lost
Large pension funds in serious trouble: 77 billion euros lost
Posted in Expats and retirees, News from the Netherlands and Belgium, Retirement
Tags: Corona crisis, Pension funds, Pension discount
The corona crisis will probably also have far-reaching consequences for pensioners. The financial markets have collapsed and with it the funding ratios of pension funds. Four of the five largest pension funds are already in trouble. For some, the funding ratio is even below 85 percent.
A fund must have a coverage ratio of 104,3 percent in order to meet future pension payments. The pension funds are currently in an even worse financial position than during the credit crisis.
In three months, 77 billion euros in assets have evaporated. not only the low interest rate, but also the falling share prices are hitting hard. If the funding ratios do not increase, cuts will have to be made at the end of the year, pensioners will then receive less pension.
Current funding ratios of the largest pension funds at the end of March 2020
- ABP: 82 percent (was 97,8 percent in December)
- PFZW: 83,5 percent (was 99,2 percent in December)
- bpfBOUW: 100,5 percent (was 114 percent in December)
- PME: 86,4 percent (was 98,7 percent in December)
- PMT: 85,9 percent (was 98,8 percent in December)
Source: NOS.nl, among others
Well, with the 60 min economy that has been suggested here and there, in which everything is restarted and the vulnerable group of over-60s is forced to be crammed, those elderly people also need much less pension………. Isn't that a win-win situation? No, not for the elderly of course….
It's only April and stocks tend to go back and forth in value. I think the picture is too gloomy to draw any conclusions for the future. There is also a task for the government here; maybe finally compensate the ABP for the strong hold in the greenhouse at the time?
Does one also have to pay back salary (wage increases while the pension contributions were too low)? Or back to work for those who stopped before it was financially justifiable (eg VUT)? And to whom do we lay the bill that many years ago pensions and AOW should have raised the age limit little by little, but people held back as long as possible until the shore turned the ship?
We are now being charged with financially irresponsible behavior in the 80s and 90s. Rightly so that people are angry now, people are concerned about the old-age benefit being cut. But then you can't just say that just a bit of money needs to be added, where from? Who pays that bill? Are we passing the bill on as was done in the 80s and 90s? After me the deluge?
About the actions of the ABP: early 80s: enough money in the pot, then the financial situation (coverage ratio) of the ABP deteriorated due to benefits and early retirement. Mid-90s, billions short at ABP “Government and civil servants actually have to pay significantly more premiums to catch up.” But that took a long time. “The government and civil servants did not pay cost-covering pension contributions until well into the XNUMXs”
“Incidentally, ABP is not unique in the latter. (…) Numerous companies, including Unilever, Shell and KLM, skim off the capital gains of their pension funds in order to polish their quarterly figures. The unions turn a blind eye in exchange for additional wage increases. This, in retrospect, completely irresponsible behavior of the pension funds is also the result of government policy. ”
Source: https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/abp-kreunt-onder-last-van-verleden~b2077a19/
To be honest, I think it is now time to use the pension pots again for the economy. There is something like 1200 billion in cash. Of that, 200 billion can easily go to the economy and the young people who are now hit much harder than the elderly. The baby boom generation has benefited the most from the prosperity. More than today's youth will ever get. we now have to show solidarity with the old people who can die from covid and that's fine with me. solidarity. But then the old people should also show solidarity with the young and settle for less luxury. There are plenty of people who only have to live on state pension, no big pension plan is needed on top of that. The youth has the future and the elderly are allowed to sacrifice something for that. And that whining about we built the country after the war makes my pants fall off. Then you can also add the VOC.
Elderly we stay home to protect you, so protect us too by handing in something and giving the youth more opportunities.
Daniel, I don't want you to stay home to protect me. But you do keep your hands - I say it nicely - from the piggy bank that I have filled with 42 years of working and paying pension contributions. I like to decide for myself what I do with it and who I help with it. You seem like the government, which has already done such a move once…….
Soon the older ones will have to apologize to the younger ones for still being here!
Daniel is a bit oversimplified, but young people who lose their jobs will soon also lose their savings. You will also not receive assistance if you have too much savings. So indirectly, this situation means that he himself no longer has control over his savings.
Quite apart from the discussion of whether money from the pension pots should be used for the common good, we all pay the bill for this crisis ourselves.
The Dutch government now gives generously with the right hand, but will take it away just as quickly with the left hand. We will soon have strong inflation. Wages will be frozen as well as benefits (yes, also AOW). There will be mega cuts that will hit the public sector hard. Yes, our healthcare heroes, police and teachers will soon be able to bite a stick. Taxes will go up because the money that has now been handed out has to be returned and the government debt will also end once. Plus that the NL state itself will have to borrow more expensively.
Then we are not even talking about Europe and the weak southern brothers. France, Italy and Spain will continue to whine about Eurobonds until Germany tacks and then the Netherlands will be virtually alone. Then we can also pay off the debts of corrupt countries in southern Europe. It really doesn't matter if you get bitten by cat or dog.
Our government has already done that, raises.
Kok's temporary penny was one of them. And there is already a huge profit margin for the government, tax.
In 2008 with the crisis, Rutte came up with the, temporary!, VAT increase from 20 to 21%.
Has never changed.
Against that, they also decided to bring the 6% VAT to 9%, which is your food and related daily necessities.
If your holiday money is called that, it has also been increased extra thanks to Wiebes and even a 2nd time. Shell had a foresight and was then still set up differently (on staff) and changed from “holiday pay” to “a lump sum benefit in April”. A different structure, as a result of which tax could not be increased. Is what I understood.
Blok wanted extra taxation from housing cooperatives, where does that ultimately come from? Especially the tenants.
Want now or already? make the companies pay for CO2 emissions, a tax.
Where will that money eventually come from? Just the citizens
Returns on pensions are generated by equity companies. Like a Goldman Sachs. A lot of money is being embezzled there. There was talk of a bill of 41 million euros. Oh well, the comment was worth the billions.
Also here in the Netherlands an equity company, with which a certain return was agreed. They more than made it, they kept the surplus themselves! And that was about 150 million. After all, they had fulfilled the order of return.
Tobacco and cigarettes, a huge income from taxes. Suppose all smokers would give up, it would cost enormously.
For years, they automatically fill in for you at the savings box on a declaration form.
They set a return that you make with that money and you have to pay tax, it doesn't matter that you park money in a bank and then receive some interest that is much lower than the stated requirement. Previously you only paid tax on the interest you received, now on what you have as capital. And if you don't make a return, you evaporate your savings.
Read not so long ago that the state lost in a lawsuit about this and has to pay back 2 billion to the citizens. Probably when Easter and Pentecost fall on the same day.
Spent 43 billion for a few benches. Zalm became director (ABN), 750000 euros is his salary, ex bonuses! HOW is that possible, what is the Balkenende standard? He is and remains (state bank) than a civil servant, so Balkenende standard! And what does Salmon do? He fires about a thousand men.
Look, there goes your money for AOW pensions, like snow in the sun.
There are still plenty of these disgusting money wasters and corruptions, and then they have nothing left, they say.
It is about wanting to play with the money, but not for the benefit of the citizens.
Citizens are collateral damage, money bags.
If you were in the army and fall down due to an illness (PTSD), you have to litigate for at least 12 years for compensation. Those are your servants, who have to do the dirty work for you. Who then completely break down, come back to everyday life, because nothing is done for them.
Staff who let you paint with toxic paint and don't provide PPE to prevent illness.
You just let them burst, that will and is the same with nursing staff.
Young people no pension, just keep working until you drop dead. That's what they want.
They think the pension is outdated and people actually want to get rid of it, hence the increase in age. It's also definitely going to disappear in the future, union or not, civil right or not.
There are countless money pots for the royal house, hidden under the various ministries.
Asked Rutte, how is that possible? Answer: "I don't understand, but it's true"
Well, what does he understand then? Do you understand?
I'm quitting, just retired, will have to go back to work I guess until I drop dead.
As Louis sings “O what a wonderful world, o yeahhhhhhhh
Daniel, I'm such an 'oldie' as you disrespectfully remark. You forget that my pension pot is my own money that comes from my own wallet and from my employer's budget and that is therefore also my money. Very easy of you, Daniel, that I should put my money into the economy and the future of young people. It's not too bad that you don't ask me to give Maarten the pipe sooner.
Sorry, Daniel, sorry COVID-19 hasn't gotten me down yet. Are you going to reduce medical budgets or put an age limit on the people who can be treated? You will gladly forget that my generation paid for your education. What you say about people who only have to / can live on state pension indicates that you absolutely do not know how difficult that is if you don't have a piggy bank or a food bank nearby. Or do you just want to pick that up right away?
No, you really don't deserve the grand prize with your comment!
Completely agree with you, cornelis. You are almost ashamed that you have grown old. And still enjoy life. We did not grow up with all the luxury that today's young people have. Expensive mobile phones, holidays and so on. But we keep getting the black pete that we cost a lot of money, etc.
And study as long as possible…..then just a little trip around the world and then life begins, while the average older person had already had 20 years of work
Pension pot is simply savings of individual citizens, brought together in a fund. Outsiders have no rights to this because it is not their money but that of the (former) employees who were obliged to save this money for their future pension. Deferred income, that's what it is.
If the youth has the future, Daniel can contribute to the costs of the education of my children. I won't stop you from transferring something to me, my children are 2 and 5 years old. You write a little solidarity with the young people, come on. I myself am in my fifties, I understand that I am too old for you, but you are too in the eyes of my children. So you hand in too so that my children get better, good gesture of you. And don't back down because that makes my pants fall off.
I cannot understand that the young are hit harder than the elderly, they are already much better off than when we were young. Most people who now have a pension have already started working at the age of 15, if they wanted something or wanted to go out you had to earn some extra money after working hours, I myself was already picking strawberries with my mother at the age of 12, even when I worked I already worked overtime and the days I didn't go to work I went to night school at 10 o'clock I came home to get up again at 7 o'clock in the morning.
What are most young people doing now?
Nobody goes to work for a farmer, they learn if possible until they are 25 years old, every weekend there must be a party if possible with drugs, otherwise it is not sustainable. And saving for when things get worse is of course not possible. Am glad you are young your generation has it really easy because we your parents have always worked hard more than 50 years in a row.
Dear Daniel, in the Netherlands many live just above the subsistence poverty line. Also many pensioners who, in addition to an AOW amount, have an average pension income of around 700 to 800 euros gross per month. That's one fat pot. Often not even a full AOW amount to enjoy and for a married couple about the same amount per month per person Gross is barely enough to live on I can share with you.
With only a state pension, a stay in Thailand in your old age is out of the question. (65.000 baht per month or 800.000 baht in a Thai bank account is a requirement. Even with a small pension added you will not reach the required amount. So stop proclaiming nonsense as less luxurious. For luxury, one has to go to a different target group See what's really going on and read what Jan contributes below, among other things.
Dear Daniel,
The baby boom generation has not had full indexation of their pensions since 2008 and is now around 10% behind. Workers have received the necessary salary increases in recent years. I also think that use of the word oldies seems derogatory. We elderly or seniors have to make do with less luxury, which I think is really a gospe.Smartphone, tablet etc. is a luxury for the seniors but an absolute necessity for the young people because they want to live a fast life, right? Speaking of solidarity... check when the AOW was introduced. Those who worked at the time paid premiums so that their parents could receive state pension for which they had not contributed a cent. In my life I have always had to go for my own opportunities without anyone having to give up anything. Giving youth more opportunities, you have to look for and realize your own opportunities. By the way, your sentence: “There are plenty of people who have to live on state pension alone, there is no need for a big pension scheme on top of that.” seems strange to me. Maybe if you had replaced the verb “must” with “can” it would have made more sense. You are also confusing two things: AOW and pension. Everyone receives AOW regardless of whether that person has worked or not. Working people have paid monthly contributions for their pension. Wish you good luck in the future, but don't lean on others, be proactive and use the opportunities that really exist.
@Daniel April 21, 2020 at 08:57 AM You're just shouting!
The best thing you can do is watch less TV and look for the truth.
1. DNB makes 500 billion pension reserves invisible: Pieter Lakeman and Arno Wellens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEIVGzmthg
2. Why is the DNB concerned about pensions?: Rob de Brouwer and Ad Broere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYS4bG_zvY
3. About pensions, lying politicians and the almighty DNB: Column Rob de Brouwer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItXuSSxLNo8
4. Our Money WRR report; Afterwards, Rico Brouwer interviews Ad Broere about the origin of money.
Real money = HUMAN LABOR and not PRIVATE Banks allowed to print enough money for you to retire
damn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SygV_tz8a-Q
5 We DO get to see GRETA ad nauseam.
You never get to see this girl? OUR MONEY SYSTEM = THE REAL PROBLEM!!!!
12 year old girl explains the global debt problem…and what money is. And You go the Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK2mc02gkxk
6. Even a 10-year-old child knows what's going on > 10-year-old Holly explains where money really comes from, why there's so much debt and what that means for you…
Have you ever tried to do a jigsaw puzzle with one piece missing? Well, the financial crisis and all the problems since then are a bit like that.
(Dutch subtitles) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Phz9KikPLc
7. dr. Egbertus Deetman about the pension robbery and blunders of FNV and DNB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqHCG92aPJo
Dear Jan,
Shall I complete the list. This year Messrs Ophen and Velzel (ABP) will undoubtedly waive the bonus!
Unfortunately, they will have to make do with their annual salary of more than €500.000.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEIVGzmthg
32 billion disappeared from the ABP pension fund and other matters: Ad Broere and Rob de Brouwer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-_UgQyFR7s
Ad Broere appendix lecture: pension robbery of 30 billion by the Dutch state!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqGm2uS8YkE
The pensioners could not count on generous stock market developments, so they do not have to take into account disappointing stock market returns! (It's all in the game!)
Since Kok's "temporary" quarter, we have to pay attention to what this government is going to do, especially with a PM who has no memory!
As soon as there is a message about aow or pension, people jump in and give a dissenting voice. But the fact is that the entire corona situation today reveals many system errors. It's all too much and too expensive. The elderly will pay for that. And that already starts with people older than 50 years. In the post-corona era, they will also be the hare.https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/1165950814/column-zijn-50-plussers-het-corona-haasje
Are you older than you are seen as "dry wood". In nature, dry wood is cleared. There are those who take up the same reasoning with regard to people. They are still a bit younger themselves and do not realize that if they continue to live they will be older themselves. https://www.mediacourant.nl/2020/04/marianne-zwagerman-hart-van-nl-is-uit-op-sensatie/
Operation “LAUGH” starts again: minor setback in the economy, pension fund securities fall a bit,. and very retired NL is back on its hind legs, knew it all much better.
First of all: you never paid a penny for your AOW, but you did for the then AOW recipients. The current workers pay for your AOW, so if the entire economy in NL flickers into each other, the enthusiasm for this will decrease sharply. You have contributed approximately 25% of your private pension yourself, the rest must come from returns. Bad economy = nix return, so no pension asset growth.
Conclusion: get the economy going again, then you will automatically get more.
Dear Harry,
for the sake of clarity I am not COMPLAINTING but responding to, at least in my eyes, oversimplified reaction from Daniel. He talks about old people in a way like we're demented or something. Retired baby boomers are all rich, have benefited from everything, etc. When I bought my first house the interest rate was over 10%. In addition, it is very easy to ignore the differences in terms of indexation of pensions and salary increases. Salaries in the Netherlands have risen by approximately 10% over the past 10 years, while pensions are 10% behind. In short, the pensioners already have a difference of 20% compared to the working people. And just say that we are not in solidarity. I am also aware that trees don't grow too long in the sky, but why have pension contributions actually been reduced if there are such large deficits? Also suspect that pensions may be cut, but not wages under normal working conditions. Who has butter on their head now?
The welfare state is unaffordable in the way that taxes are levied from the government and then by both citizens and normal companies.
If you maintain the system, the Dutch will become poorer compared to other countries and it is therefore not surprising that the young people want to prevent this.
Being worse than your grandparents is not progress and the uncertainty about a decent life generally lasts longer for a young person than for an older person.
Frugal people who know how to build up wealth and people who build up a pension are seen as idiots and the government decides how this is made financially unattractive.
As a young person you have a choice. Make yourself valuable and work in a country where the government interferes less in someone's life and take care of yourself and your family, bearing in mind that you have to put aside your assets for the years that you do not work.
If none of that is an option then I foresee a non-challenging future.
To the pension services: In Belgium alone, at least 3000 pensioners have died of Covid-19; This means that they have to pay less pensions. This amounts to millions of euros. But no one is talking about that. Only complaining.
This is also called “excess mortality” in the Netherlands.
When my wife died years ago just before her retirement age, that money was not paid out!
I did have to pay inheritance tax to the tax authorities!
Dear Daniel and Harry, I read with utter amazement what you dare to write. I doubt if you would dare to explain this to your parents. The short-sightedness you show is currently normal for a number of less social movements in our society. Fortunately, you are an exceptional minority and it should remain that way. For the time being, all workers over the past 30 years have ensured that you could lead a carefree life and study what you wanted if you were able and willing to do so. What you forget is that the average working man or woman between the ages of 40 and 45 has contributed to society and simply deserves to be able to enjoy life carefree for a few more years. These don't have to mean expensive holidays or large campers. The average state pensioner cannot afford that, even with a small supplementary pension. Then you are dependent on health care benefits - rent subsidy and with a bit of bad luck sometimes the food bank. Am I a vinegar pisser, certainly not. I am satisfied with what I have. That's not a big deal, but after 47 years of working I believe that I can have a peaceful old age as long as it lasts. Daniel and Harry, I hope that you and your family members are and remain happy and healthy. But it would behoove you to also have some compassion for people who have worked 8 or 9 hours a day their entire working lives and have now entered the last years of their lives in the hope of finding some enjoyment in it.
Without the corona, our lives have also been deducting from our pension with the abp for 10 years. This is good for the pension funds, of course. There is more than enough money in the pots. But we have to swallow it again. There you have worked for more than 51 years.
Well, the discount rate... that's the big lie. Interest rates rise and fall over the years. It is currently assumed that interest rates will always remain this low. Nonsense of course, but this is where the lie arises. Higher interest rates are welcome for long-term debt. Money becomes less valuable and the debt is then easier to repay. The same also applies to pensions. The elderly among us have experienced high interest rates, even above 10%! That is why the ABP pot grew so well at the time that billions could be extracted from it. There was much more in the pot at the time than they thought they would need for pensions in the future. Something that is not the case now! There is no guarantee that interest rates will always remain at this low level. That's why the discount rate is such a big lie! If many companies need money to survive, you will see inflation and rising interest rates. And that is good for pension funds! I have seen comments from Daniel and Harry. Probably people with a political background. But not realists. Short-sighted thinkers. The politicians in the Netherlands also think this way. Due to the Corona misery, many will lose their jobs, but this does not happen to politicians! There will be no layoffs there!
Let them index the pensions, the elderly have been lagging behind for years. Then they also spend more, so they help the economy to recover. Would say win win. Let the government keep its hands off our pennies.
Don't let them fool us.
There are 1500 billion € in our pension pots !!
Pure scaremongering.
Scandalous. My husband and I are also from the “Baby Boom”. Together 40 + 42 years is 82 years of working and paid. Now after such a short period the Pension funds would no longer have enough money ???? We don't believe it, but we expected it. Phew, phew, phew. We will see. This is only our Pension. What will happen to our AOW, for which we have paid high premiums for so many years?? We allow ourselves to be (un)pleasantly surprised.