Final result of postal polling stations abroad
The elections for the House of Representatives have been over for a while now and we are now waiting for a new cabinet of prime minister and ministers. In addition to elections in general, I was also interested in the voices of Dutch voters abroad, especially in Thailand, of course.
I also wanted to make some comparisons with neighboring countries, but I didn't immediately get the results, because the embassies relied on instructions from “The Hague”. I then contacted the Municipality of The Hague, which coordinated the elections abroad.
Although the results were not yet final at that time, Ms. Shelley Kouwenhoven – Goris, Medialab Communication Adviser, kindly sent me the results of Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore and Jakarta. Based on that, I then put a story on the blog.
The results are now final and Mrs. Shelley was kind enough to pass on the link of the Municipality of The Hague, which specifies all the results of the postal voting bureaus abroad in a nice way: results.denhaag.nl/tweede- parliamentary elections/postal polling stations
Nice for all number freaks, like me from time to time, to see how the mood has been in all those countries. There were 22 polling stations and in the absence of a polling station in a particular country, voters had to send their vote to The Hague. You will find that in the figures of The Hague 1 and 2. A specification of this would also be nice, but I don't dare to ask about that anymore.
Still remains my promise to investigate the fact that the PVV has become the largest party in Thailand. A unique fact, because no other country has achieved this. Unfortunately, I have approached a number of people, but have not yet been able to get a reasonable explanation. Who knows, is there someone who can explain it?
It is not for nothing that only 2 of the 22 embassies where voting was allowed put the results publicly on the site. In Bangkok, PVV became the largest and VVD second. In Washington, the other embassy that did put it publicly on the site, VVD became just a little bigger than PVV.
D666, which it became according to the 'official' result, only came in 4th place in both.
In the Netherlands there were also a lot of indications for it, I'm actually looking for a neat word, but that's not for it, fraud.
Many suspect that PVV was not allowed to become the largest anyway.
Not only embassies but also polling stations have not made their counts public. Which only fuels the suspicion of fraud even more. Together with the very strange choice to negotiate with D666 and GroensLinks instead of the 2nd party…
I too have my reservations about this election.
It all goes very strangely, and no one can check the results for authenticity.
Just saying something and not giving any evidence is not common. 'In the Netherlands there were a lot of indications for' and 'PVV is not allowed to participate' did not get 100 people together on the Malieveld, so I think it's not too bad.
This and other reactions have something of disappointment, people look bewildered and shout something. If there was a large-scale fraud, more would have surfaced than a single voice crying in the desert. I don't believe any of this. Michael. The Netherlands is not a banana republic where you can expect something like this.
When I read the forums about Thailand, most of the posts radiate dissatisfaction.
In my opinion, the PVV mainly has dissatisfied citizens as voters.
It therefore seems obvious to me that the PVV is the largest in Thailand.
One of the conclusions of the election surveys is that the PVV has long ceased to be the party of dissatisfied, older men with a low income.
“It is striking that PVV voters can be found across all education levels and all income groups. They are more likely to occur among people with a lower or intermediate vocational education or people with a lower income. But of the group that earns twice the average, one in five also chooses Wilders. And of the HBO and university educated people in the study, one in ten votes for the PVV. They say they have seriously studied themes such as integration and believe that only Wilders thinks carefully about solutions.”
It would not surprise me that the population of expats in Thailand consists much more than in other (Asian) countries of people with a lower or intermediate vocational education. And also with a lower income; in this case AOW and a small pension.
I am a Dutch expat who has an academic education and is now working in Thailand. But when I read the comments on this blog, it is mainly pensioners with a Thai wife or girlfriend. Few young people, few entrepreneurs, rarely women.
Clearly a banana republic where you can't/are not even allowed to vote via the internet, it would have been easy abroad, but no, people chose to send it by post, so also to me and even the 2nd x after I had 14 days in advance had not received anything, they would send it by TNT by express so that I could still vote in time in BKK. Unfortunately, I am still waiting for the mail from that banana republic. And I'm not the only one about 44% of votes were lost abroad thanks The Hague
If this has happened on a larger scale, it cannot have (had) much effect on the result. The law of large numbers.
well
I have also not received a ballot till date, maybe more people.
Yes that's right Nico, I never received anything again.
Also nothing from the SVB after January 1, 2017. e.g.
Why the PVV has become the largest in Thailand? Because the majority of Dutch people who live in Thailand and have voted Wilders is seen as the ideal man to help the Netherlands out of the sorus that Rutte has left behind in his far-reaching austerity drive. Oh the care. etc.etc. And because Rutte is too far away from the citizen. Otherwise you will not live on the Noorderhout.
Maybe because people in that Banana Republic have proven how incredibly easy it is to cheat with Internet voting, not to mention secrecy?
But… there is a task before you: let your light cast on this problem, and many “foreign” will be able to vote much more easily in the future.
There is little to commit fraud via DigiD.
You could also call it a form of fraud that many people here received their ballot papers, which were requested well in advance, a few days before or after the elections. So voting for these people was not possible.
And what does that mean for the result in Bangkok? That the PVV benefited from this (the Dutch who were unable to vote would certainly NOT have voted for the PVV) or not?
@Eric you have to start somewhere for it to become a banana republic.
Now I think it is out of the question that as the 2nd largest party you are not allowed to interfere in anything.
Just make 2 parties like in USA and let them fight it out, with us there are just too many who want to have something to say.
I haven't voted since I lived in Thailand and nothing has changed since 21 years ago, we are forgotten anyway and should certainly not interfere with anything as a Dutchman abroad.
Wasn't even the question. The question was why in percentage terms Thailand had the most PVV voters of all countries outside the Netherlands (as no country had yet achieved….uuuhm.).
My idea is that dissatisfied and not very smart people vote for the PVV (people who respond to slogans without asking themselves what is really going on)
Perhaps there are a lot of them in Thailand in percentage terms? I don't see any other explanation, other than coincidence. (there has to be one the highest)
It indeed seems that only the percentages of Thailand have been counted and dazrxoor are of course at the top, what about the other countries, it is also from everyone who comments here that there are only prejudices and nothing more, the facts are not brought out.
The Thailand blog appears to be a good indicator of voting behaviour. All the people who receive a comfortable monthly transfer from the Netherlands, but nevertheless have to complain about anything and everything, who think that the same Netherlands is a banana republic, but have little trouble with the Thai dictatorship, yes, they are a good reflection of the PVV voter.
The PVV voter is firmly convinced that the world is there for him (women appear to be less focused on themselves, but they also live less in Thailand). The PVV is the party for the aggrieved and apparently many of them live in Thailand.
In Thailand, the Dutch man is often married to a woman who is not entitled to vote in the Netherlands. If we now suppose that most women eligible to vote in the Netherlands do not vote for the PVV, even if the man does, then (if that assumption were correct) this would explain that:
1. the percentage of PVV voters in Thailand is so high in relation to that in the Netherlands.
2. that the percentage of PVV voters in the other expat countries is less out of step with that in the Netherlands. There (in the relevant expat countries) men are more often married to a Dutch woman than in Thailand.
In the Netherlands there are (you may assume from retired or not highly honorable gentlemen) especially many old angry and dissatisfied men. These men, their Thai expats, are the grumblers on the Thailand blog (and the Thailand blog has no shortage of them). The angry old man takes himself with him when he emigrates to Thailand (so happy with his Thai, mostly Isan, wife that once married he is no longer dissatisfied and angry, I suppose he isn't).
It remains guesswork for now. What if there is a highly satisfied majority of Thaiblog readers who rarely or never testify to their vitality, joy of life, etc. on the Thailandblog? Then you would have to assume the improbability that those (or at least those as well) will vote for the PVV. The more you have to drag on improbabilities to arrive at the assumption that something probable isn't the case after all, the closer you get to the improbable. But yes, to draw a conclusion now….
Here are some points why the PVV is steadily growing, also that they will participate in municipal elections.
– The past coalition is not reliable, they do not listen to the population, referendum as an example.
– The coming coalition is also not reliable, they exclude the PVV from co-government.
– The Dutch government does everything the EU says and sells the Netherlands to the EU in this way.
–The immigration policy of the EU under the leadership of former GDR lady Merkel.
– The dirty politics that the US imposes on the EU with untrue messages and the EU follows it slavishly.
It can be safely said that the Dutch government is in the service of the EU.
The PVV will become the largest party in the future, they will also adjust their points, now there are already a lot of points that the CDA has taken over from the PVV.
Look at France Marie L,e Pen has also adjusted her party with some changes, but the core points remain.
Marie Le pen also wants France to leave the EU.
Only Germany persists in EU politics, because they would like to establish the so-called 4 Reich under the leadership of Merkel.
Partly also that there are no strong leaders in the Netherlands and the EU, they all want to sit in the golden cage of Brussels and fill their pockets.
You may have missed that the PVV already had a chance, and blew it.
That the party program fits on an A4 and that 80% of it is not feasible because it is contrary to the constitution.
That the plans have not been passed on by the CPB because Wilders also knows that it is also not financially correct.
That leaving the EU would demonstrably be a financial disaster for the Netherlands.
A unique fact, because no other country has achieved this.
Gringo, have you overlooked Israel?
The PVV is also the largest there.
PVV is also the largest in Israel. Rode?
An ingrained and constantly promoted anti-Islam attitude, both among the Israeli population and among all expatriates there?
Perhaps the Christian (read: Protestant) faith was also a reason for the Dutch to move to Israel. Just look at the percentages of the Christian Union and the SGP.
Bram Siam you accuse PVV voters as complainers, but to accept a comfortable amount per month from the Netherlands. May I point out that all those people have worked and have paid taxes and social insurance and are therefore entitled to this compensation. And besides that, they still have the right to criticize the policy in the Netherlands and that is different from complaining. By the way, I am not a PVV voter and have not voted since 1998 when I was able to leave the Netherlands.
I think that PVV voters everywhere in the world are quite dissatisfied with the way things are going in the Netherlands and the EU. It has not always been fun for a large group of Dutch people here in Thailand. You can make that last parallel. The euro, which is always very low, is certainly to blame for this. The influences of foreigners, especially in the area of religion in the Netherlands, are felt by many Dutch people in the poor neighborhoods where they have to live together. The cabinets have grossly underestimated integration policy and have done far too little to keep it safe and viable. This is only going from bad to worse. The genie is out of the bottle and won't come back in, I can tell you. You have to make do with what you have and it's sad that it has come to this. Weak surgeons make stinking wounds and I wonder when the sinking ship will rise again. I will be curious to see how the new cabinet to be formed will deal with the problems that exist. I think it will be a repeat of moves because there will be no other captains on deck. Politics must be radical and free from rank, status, color and religion. We have also seen similar voting behavior in America and England. Very dissatisfied people who voted against the established order. We will soon see that in France too. The supporters of Brexit and those who voted for the new US war president, who do not want to lose face but should actually admit that they are a lot worse off. A lot of people practice signal politics and that doesn't benefit anyone.
The PVV was strongly in favor of abolishing dual nationality. In that case, children of Dutch expats in Thailand would have to choose between Thai and Dutch nationality. Wasn't - I thought - on the well-known A-4 of the PVV election programme. Could have cost votes.
I don't think an 'overloaded' civil service in The Hague is 'fraud', although one could have seen this coming and, as someone from the business world, I know what 'spending a weekend' means: just continuing to work for the good cause. But if an official does not do that, it is not fraud. It was a hassle and I hope people learn from it.
On the other hand, as a candidate voter you can register yourself in a database in The Hague and you will be one of the first to receive an invitation to complete the registration. My registration was completed months before the elections and all my stuff arrived well in time. Although I think this way of doing things with a note is completely outdated in 2017, just as outdated as the elections for the senate: handshakes in backrooms, to many decimal places.
The fact that the second largest party in NL (PVV) is not participating in the negotiations is something that only Schippers and Wilders can talk about. They carried out the reconnaissance and explored the boundaries. Don't forget that in a coalition with a majority of 76 seats, 74 'chairs' bite on a stick. That could include party number two. Then he's out of luck. Looking for malicious intent behind that is a bridge too far for me.
Relatively many older Dutch people live in Thailand. Intolerance is on average slightly higher in the elderly. In addition, I often read on the Thailand blog that people left the Netherlands because it was too full. The PVV wants to give the Netherlands back to the Dutch with the cultural values that go with it. Then it is logical that the PVV scores very well.
This topic has once again poured out a massive belch of old man gut feelings on the Thailand blog. Growing old (in years) and yet remaining young (at heart) is less often given to men than to women and (I assume) that makes a difference in voting behaviour.
Again (but now briefly summarized): the percentage of old Dutch men who voted in Thailand has in all probability been higher than in the Netherlands (and in other expat countries). Simply because there are quite a few old men in Thailand who are married to a woman who is not entitled to vote (namely a Thai). Let only the old (and wise?) men vote in the Netherlands, and the PVV is undisputed (and even by far) the largest party there. And don't forget: Thailand, to emigrate there, is more popular with the unmarried older man than any other emigration country.