TB Immigration Information Letter No. 002/24: Converting and extending in Thailand through a visa office
Reporter: Danny
I notice that there are many questions about visas, which RonnyLatya always gives very clear explanations. However, I am not an expert in this area, but I would like to share my own experience on how I went about it.
For a return flight I paid about 900 euros for 30 days. Upon arrival, I went to a reliable visa office. I opened a bank account at Bangkok Bank for 3.000 baht. For my 15-month retirement visa (first 3 months and then 12 months) I paid 27.500 baht. Converting my international driver's license to a Thai driver's license for a car and moped cost me 5.500 baht. I paid 13.500 baht to extend my annual visa.
In total, I have now been in Thailand for 2 years and 3 months, and have spent 49.500 baht on everything I legally needed. I only have to add the return flight, which costs about 450 euros. However, I never deposited 800.000 baht into my bank account for my annual visa, as is often said. So I sometimes don't understand why people ask such questions. It's actually very simple: yes, 49.500 baht, which amounts to about 1.400 euros for 2 years and 3 months.
Reaction RonnyLatYa
I have said before that using a visa office to obtain assistance is perfectly legal and that they want to be reimbursed for this is of course also normal. There is nothing wrong with it if someone decides to use those visa offices. However, when that visa office also takes care of your 800 Baht as financial proof, it becomes illegal.
The legislation states what those financial requirements are and what those financial requirements must meet. It does not state anywhere that you may deviate from this, or that someone else may temporarily meet those financial requirements.
No matter how “reliable” you may call that office, it remains an illegal way of working. Of course, this is only possible with the cooperation of someone within that immigration office, which also explains the price.
You may ultimately have everything you legally need, but whether it was obtained legally is something else. I'll say it again. Big Joke has been at it again since he got back and many continue to laugh it off. So be it. It doesn't really matter to me either. But let me make a comparison between your way of working and what thousands do in Thailand without the help of visa offices
.- Visa exemption free
– Converting to Non-immigrant is 2000 Baht. Use Affidavit with an income that costs 850 Baht or visa support letter of 2000 Baht for Dutch citizens.
– Extension costs 1900 Baht with the same Affidavit
– Next extension 1900 Baht plus new Affidavit of 850 Baht or 2000 Baht for visa support letter.
Alternative
Some will use 800 Baht and see it as a savings account. It costs nothing, but it does earn them interest. It doesn't matter to them how long it has to be left on or left on.
As a married person you can also use 400 Baht, which you can use in full for the rest of the year after approval. Just make sure that it is back on 000 months in advance if that is the case.
– Converting a Belgian driver's license was 200 Baht I thought, but it was a while ago so it might be a little more. Maybe a Certificate of Residence for some, but the yellow Tabien is also accepted and is free. Doctor's note 150 Baht.
– I don't remember opening a bank account because it was many years ago and I think it was free. Some may also need a Certificate or Residence for this, but this is also possible with the Tabien Baan.
For the same 2 years and 3 months you refer to, driver's license and bank account together approximately 8000 Baht and all in a legal manner.
If you do it yourself, in other words, you pay more than 40 Baht less than you would for the same period and everything was obtained legally.
Which actually means that you can use that 40 Baht to fly… there and back….
To say it with your words. Simple right. But you just do it. Everyone does what they want with their money.
*****
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Dear Ronny, you are absolutely right to put your actual and legal calculation next to it. Compliment. I also thought it was a strange summary. Danny pays 41K baht for his stay alone. In return, he is given a bank account and a Thai driver's license, which he also pays for. And then pretend he's the smart one. In any case, it is a bit simple. Let's wait and see what he reports when he is taken out.
Indeed Henk,
And compliments to Ronny, who had to do some calculations.
My BangkokBank account cost me Th Bth 0,00 and my both driving licenses together cost Th Bth 500.=
No rustling, but I have taken a driving test twice.
The annual fee for my new debit/credit card is 300 bth.
As RonnyLatya writes here: it is illegal in the way that the smart Danny writes here and calls it 'Simple'..
Now for something else: what could the consequences of this be?
Well, here's a true incident.
a Dutchman also used a visa office like this.
He lived in Chumphon Province.
– His one-year extension was 'arranged' by a 'lawyer' from Bangkok who asked 40.000THB for this.
– His one-year extension was made in Khong Kheng
– on his first 90d report, which was not yet possible online at the time, but at immigration itself, he was refused in Chumphon with the message that he had to report where his annual extension was obtained and where he was registered. So he could go to Khong Kheng every 90 days. But it didn't come to that
– a few weeks later the immigration police showed up at his door asking him to show his bankbook with the 800.000THB tr. He hadn't.
– he was arrested and given 7 days to leave the country after paying some hefty fines: He is not even allowed to enter Tgailand anymore.
– no change of address made
– no 90d report made
– fraudulently obtained year extension………..
That lawyer was left out of the picture...he wasn't.
He now lives in Laos.
Simple right…………
I have been doing everything myself for 19 years and have also worked with the 8K scheme from the beginning until now.
Money is not interest-free in a Thai account, but it does generate some income on an annual basis.
Opening a bank account, I use 3 different Thai banks with several types of accounts per bank, partly by spreading the risk, when opening for the first time using the Yellow home book, no bank costs are involved.
The only costs I incur annually are those based on visa extension ala 1900 bath.
It is best to do it yourself, you must first provide the paperwork through a visa agent and also show your face at the local IMI on the day of the application.
Jan Beute.
I will also list my costs from September 2022
NON immigrant O visa 90 days, applied for in the Netherlands 70 euros
First year renewal 1900 baht
Second year extension 1900 baht
Open a bank account for free
Driving license for motorcycle and car 400 baht
Tambien Baan and pink ID card for free
But most importantly, it's legal. The fact that it costs less than what Danny paid is taken into account.
Danny says that in his first visa-free 30 days he turned to a -reliable- visa office. Here Danny is already putting us on the wrong track, because that office arranged a visa without meeting the financial Immigration conditions, and can therefore already be labeled -rogue. Danny thus paid Thai baht 27,5 K for an illegal residence permit and 13,5 K baht for its extension. And that last amount every year, as long as he wants to remain in Thailand. Now it is the case that not only is residence and extension illegal, his actions and those of his visa office are as well. To put it bluntly: Danny himself is illegal in Thailand. Could he have forgotten that? I do not think so. I think he is very aware that he has an illegal working method, and even propagates it here on Thailandblog, which in itself can also be blamed on him.
But here it comes: Danny reports that the cost of a return ticket must be added to his final amount of Thai baht 49,5 K. So he is still in Thailand. Suppose Danny gets the jitters from all our reactions and realizes that it is better to take the legal route. Then he has to leave Thailand first. Whether by land, by air or via any sea route: he has to go through a border post!
Danny has currently been in overstay for 2 years and 2 months. The longer he stays in Thailand, the longer the overstay, the higher the fine. So Danny better make sure he has enough baht in his illegally obtained bank account when he leaves. As a result, his final amount is significantly higher. Perhaps Danny now understands why people keep asking certain questions.
It is not that such visa offices themselves make that stamp (although that has happened in the past).
Visa offices that offer this can only do so because they receive cooperation from within
at certain immigration offices to get some shut-eye, otherwise it wouldn't work.
It is usually sufficient that the 800 Baht is only in the account during the application. Which in itself is also officially sufficient when converting to Non-immigrant. This is not sufficient for extension and it must be stated 000 months in advance and remain stated until 2 months after approval and you may not drop below 3 Baht for the rest of the year. So that's where things go wrong.
This non-immigrant status will therefore be officially in order and even according to the rules, only a blind eye was turned during the extension.
It is not uncommon to suddenly obtain 15 months through a visa office. Many then say that they have been given a 15-month extension, but that is not so natural. It's a 90 day and 12 month extension added together, which explains the 15 month. Actually that's not possible, but here too...
So everything will be officially registered in the database and in that area I don't think he should worry when he wants to leave Thailand.
What could possibly become a problem is if he wanted to renew himself in the future.
If they then ask for an extract from his bank account for the last 12 months, they will see that 800 Baht has never been deposited there, or has only been there for a few days, and then of course the puppets can start dancing.
Using an Affidavit/visa support letter next time may be a solution, but if he has insufficient income, that is of course not a solution either.
Hopefully they won't ask for anything the next time you could use that Affidavit/visa support letter.
I would definitely consider starting over completely if you want to take everything into your own hands.
But if you want to continue doing so, you will of course be bound to that visa office in the future for your next extensions.
But think before you leap, of course, if you want to stay in Thailand that way….
But I have no illusions either.
There will certainly also be reactions from others who don't think it is a problem and who think it is all nonsense of what is being said here, because they have been doing it for years and it has never caused a problem and even call it legal.
Usually from those who, for one reason or another, cannot meet the financial requirements themselves and... yes, then you have to convince yourself that you are doing it perfectly legally, of course 😉
Speaking of Big Joke, sometimes, it seems to the joeks, entire Immigration offices are replaced by other staff. Well, then suddenly that 'mediator' loses contact and people like Danny can go to jail. That's what you get from fraud. And then be proud of it too?
But does such a thing still exist? I have doubts and think we are dealing with a troll.
Still exists. They are still there.
But indeed people are cleaning up and if there is a completely new team in your immigration office you can assume that it has to do with such matters, among other things.
Everything always goes well until something goes wrong, they say.
Such visa offices often also go to immigration offices other than where they are located. Your extension will then be granted by an immigration office other than where you live. There must also be a reason.
Dear,
I just want to show if you are not familiar with Thai visas that it can be done differently.
Yes, you have to pay for this, but if you can't, it's better to stay home.
Firstly to RonnyLatya, I am talking about an international driver's license, not a Belgian one
To Henk stay 41000 Bath? I'm a bit simple, just look in the mirror.
To Lung addie. That Dutchman was not okay with anything
To Wim. I went back to Belgium last year in November with a re-entry of course.
This is the first and last time I report something.
Just wanted to help people who can't do this.
The way I have done it already a lot for me
Kind regards, Danny
This information is OK, Danny, When I read Ronny's response, if you then want to extend it yourself and cannot show proof such as bank balances, you can easily make a border run where you start everything again with a clean slate.
If you have to use the 800k method, it is quite expensive, think of the price inflation of 2 to 6% per year, then you will lose 16.000 to 48.000 in value. The interest compensation is minimal, but a maximum of 2% = 16.000 baht. If you invest the 800.000 baht, equivalent to 23.000 Euro, you can quickly achieve a return of at least 12% to 30% or higher, depending on how you invest and actively monitor it, a return of at least 100.000 baht per year . For those wondering how you can continue to make money with the 800.000, the way is through visa offices.
n a profitable solution, because you earn at least 100.000 baht (and usually considerably more) minus the visa office costs of 40.000: you still have at least 60.000 per year left over, year after year.
Yes, yes... there are plenty of people here who manage to make a profit of 800 Baht annually and then 000 Baht.
Although I rather have the impression that most people know better how to turn 800 Baht into 000 Baht in less than a year 😉
That's called investing, Ronny. Do not transfer the 23.000 Euro, which is the equivalent of 800.000 baht, from Belgium or the Netherlands to Thailand, but put it to work. No 1 to 2% per year from the bank as savings compensation, less than inflation, which makes your sweet money worth less and less.
I know. On social media they are all financial geniuses.
Became filthy rich by investing. They all know how to tell you how to do it and since they have been doing that all their lives, they no longer invest with a measly 800 Bath but with millions….
However, in reality and practice it turns out to be a completely different story... Leaving aside the exceptions, many of course believe that they also belong to those exceptions.
The rich farang. Became rich by investing. The never ending story...
Glad you're not my financial advisor, Ger...
Well, not your advisor, but there will certainly be more people who think it is a shame to park 800.000 untouched in a Thai bank account and therefore prefer to leave it in Belgium or the Netherlands.
The visa office is then an option to stay for 15 months. Just today another reader question in this blog with the comment that the amount mentioned for a non-immigrant O visa is considered too high, and I read more responses and there are probably more who think it is too much. A visa office is then a solution for some. Also for those who do not have enough money or income.
If you disagree, the pastor, or prefer to use that money in the Netherlands to trade, the merchant, then according to good Dutch custom, the merchant wins.
Don't understand why anyone should stay home if they don't want to pay a useless 50 Baht or so. Especially when it all actually only costs 000 Baht.
Big words from someone who cannot meet the 800 Baht requirement themselves, or has too little income to obtain an Affidavit/visa support letter and is then obliged to use such a visa office to circumvent this.
That would be more of a reason for me to stay home.
You cannot convert an international driving license. The international driving license is only a translation of your national driving license. In many cases you will have to show your national driving license when they stop you.
It is therefore always your Belgian driving license that is converted into a Thai driving license.
The international driving license as issued in Belgium was in many cases not accepted in Thailand because it states “Convention on Road Traffic of November 8, 1968.” They claim not to have signed that, but only to the “Convention on Road Traffic of September 19, 1949.” In the meantime, this seems to be the case, but the Belgian driving license is still being converted and not the international one.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationaal_rijbewijs
The “new” Belgian driving licenses (ID card type) are now also accepted for conversion, I know, although that will also depend on the local transport department. This is the case for all things in Thailand if you need something..
But I suspect that they have also arranged that for you and you have not carried out those mandatory tests... reaction test, color test and distance discrimination test) and whether or not you have watched a film. I understand that the film with answering questions must now be done online first. Will see about it when I next renew my driver's license in 27.
And yes, “The way I did it already means a lot to me.” you write
I had already mentioned this in a previous response that such an explanation would follow.
But don't worry. I don't care what you do. It doesn't keep me awake for a second.
But I do respond if someone presents it to others as something legal because in that way it is not.
Fortunately, there are many more who know how to do it legally and themselves without any problems
Personally, I have been doing everything according to the rules for years. But I personally also know many Farangs who use those offices. Some can easily put that 800 in a bank account but prefer not to do so for all kinds of reasons... you can only make partial use of it and or they do not want to do it so that their possible heirs stay in Belgium. They then tell me that they would rather continue to manage their money themselves.
A lot of others do it because they are too lazy and either don't feel like having their lives made miserable by a grumpy official or because they ever had a bad experience.
Personally, I don't know of any farang who has ever experienced any disadvantage with this. Would it be true that those who do everything according to the rules will go to heaven and those who don't will go everywhere? I certainly experienced it that way when I applied for our Schengen visa.
Yes, there are plenty of rich farang in Thailand, but apparently they cannot earn an income of 65 Baht just to work with an income.
Don't they need that visa office to get that 800 Baht.
But as I said, using a visa office to handle your affairs is allowed and for those who have the money to do so, there is nothing wrong with that.
Allowing the visa office to guarantee your 800 Baht is illegal.
But with all those rich farangs walking around there, that shouldn't be a problem.
They all have enough money when you hear them, until their beer goes up 1 Baht, they miss the Happy Hour, the Pad Thai goes up 5 Baht or the Baht a Satang goes the wrong way and everything is in shambles...
That's certainly true... people sometimes say that people lie about nothing as much as about sex and money. Now that the people I was talking about, I am sure they have enough money available, as I also know what they own in B.
There are indeed those who are warm. Let that be clear too.
I don't mean to say that they don't exist.
And that there are those who use a visa office for their own convenience and the reasons you mention is also so natural. Nothing wrong with that, of course, as I could already read in my first response, because ultimately everyone decides for themselves what they want to spend.
To repeat it again to make it clear
“I have said before that using a visa office to obtain assistance is perfectly legal and that they want to be reimbursed for this is of course also normal. There is nothing wrong with it if someone decides to use those visa offices. However, if that visa office also provides your 800 Baht as financial proof, it becomes illegal.”
No Ronny, your international driving license is already the translation of the Belgian driving license. I have been stopped 4 times with an international driver's license and never showed my Belgian driver's license
That's what I say. “The international driving license is only a translation of your national driving license”
and usually that will be enough to drive around Thailand for 3 months, but both can also be requested.
“An international driving license is a translation of the driving license and is a requirement in some countries outside the European Union in addition to the national driving license. It therefore does not replace the national driving license.”
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationaal_rijbewijs
But then it is your Belgian driving license that is converted, not your international one, because they simply give it back to you when you add it to the application because they cannot take anything with it.
Some sometimes ask for a stamp from the embassy on the copy of your Belgian driving license. Fortunately I don't have to do that in Kanchanaburi, but in Bangkok people wanted to see it. It was still the old Belgian driving license at the time.
In principle that should be the case. Now I don't think they are very aware of this in Thailand, or at least not the regular street police. Of course, things could be different if you are involved in a (serious) traffic accident.
Danny only indicates that he is taking a different path. He shares information.
What is wrong with that?
At most you can say something about the pros and/or cons.
I don't understand where the fuss comes from, nor that the condescension is accepted.
It's his choice and share, accept. OK right?
Live and let live, it doesn't affect you personally.
If illegal matters are mentioned about immigration matters, I feel it is my duty to report this on the blog so that readers do not get the impression that it is all perfectly legal and according to the law.
What everyone does with it afterwards doesn't really matter to me, nor what the possible consequences may be later for the people who ignored a warning.
Dear fellow bloggers,
The method Danny followed is obviously not legal.
But he only described the path he took.
Interesting and good to know for many.
I don't think many of us realize that there are many nationalities
their state pension is too low to meet the conditions.
And also not having a sufficient financial buffer.
I once asked around here in my area who doesn't use an office.
13 people answered me and of those 13 there was ONE
expat who carried out his extension himself at immigration.
Dus12 through an office.
Reason: State pension too low
A few examples .
State pension after sufficient career years:
United Kingdom = £175 per week after immigration
Australia=around 1000 aus.$ every 15 days after immigration
New Zealand = NZ$750 every 15 days after immigration
I personally think that 70 to 80% of all immigrants go through an office
If they deport them all from the country, there won't be many white-noses left.
Good day.
Foofie
And would Thailand be concerned that they had lost that group?
The UK pensioner earns meager income: about 33K ThB per month at the current rate (>38). This has sometimes been much lower, so if he has been in Thailand for a longer period of time, he does so with 400K Marriage or 800 K Retired. Ditto both down under. These amount to 40 to 50 K ThB monthly. A marriage visa would already be possible. Even without a bank balance. A problem arises with widowhood or divorce. TH is much more accommodating and generous in its visa allocation policy than the UK/EU and especially than AUS and NZ. If you do not have those bank balances and your pension is not sufficient, why should TH grant you residence? Because you're white-nosed? Not at all, I would say. TH is not a shelter.
Actually it's as simple as anything. If you don't keep anything in reserve (cf. the famous 8K) and you have to "survive" with a measly pension, you have nowhere to go, anywhere. The problems with immigration where some people find it necessary to use a dubious agency are at least suspicious to me. Conclusion: if you are in order with everything and stick to the known rules: where is the problem? I have been living in Thailand for 9 years now and have not experienced a single problem!
I'm going to go into it one last time and then close it as far as I'm concerned.
As I have said several times, using a visa office to obtain assistance is perfectly legal and it is of course also normal that they want to be reimbursed for this. There is nothing wrong with it if someone decides to use those visa offices. In itself it is no different from visa offices in the Netherlands/Belgium that apply for a visa.
Those who have the money to use them because they find it easier, or who cannot go for whatever reason, will usually also provide the necessary documents and financial evidence. They then ask the visa office to further process the application for them. There's nothing wrong with that in itself, although you should always go along for the digital photo, but then it will still be faster. You do have that advantage again. Especially at immigration offices with long queues.
The illegality only starts if you also want that office to provide the financial evidence. Not all visa offices do this and there are also visa offices that do not do this and require that you provide the financial proof yourself as it should be. In the Netherlands/Belgium, I don't think you should ask the visa office there if they would be willing to take care of the financial requirements of your visa themselves.
But like I said, everyone does what they want. It doesn't matter to me what someone does or doesn't do.
What I do hope to see in the future, however, is that those same people who have their financial demands handled by that visa office, finally stop commenting on how corrupt Thailand, its officials and services are.
It is thanks to those corrupt officials, corrupt services and your contributions that this is all possible. You should applaud the fact that all this is possible.
So be positive in the future when it comes to corruption and defend it fully because after all it concerns your stay in Thailand.
Have a pleasant stay