The cold breath of the thought police
As a blogger with a strong point of view, I am a great advocate of freedom of expression.
I find the ideas of rioters like Wilders reprehensible, but we should be happy that in a country like the Netherlands, even these types of idiots can point their shouting horn at the population, without going to jail for it.
Wilders is often just on the edge, because we have a law that prohibits hate speech and the creation of public opinion against certain population groups, but in general the Dutch can express their opinion everywhere, without being taken from their bed and then disappear to be put in a madhouse, labor camp or on a transport to Almere…
Internet censorship
Unfortunately, the situation is different in much of the rest of the world. I recently read that Eritrea has overtaken North Korea as the country with the most repressive internet censorship. That is quite an achievement, since you can only post in North Korea; “Keck pants again, Oh Great Leader, Kim Il Sun”, or “There was no moon in the sky last night. Was perhaps the Great, Merciful, Immaculate Helmsman ill?” (a thousand crying spells)
In Thailand, where I live, there is apparently a cheerful freedom of the press. For example, I may post a comment under an opinion piece by the Bangkok Post, the largest English-language newspaper in this country. That drips with sarcasm and in which I do not hide my aversion to Thai parliamentarians. In fact, there are entire tribes of people who do, which often makes reading the comments even more entertaining than reading the usually well-behaved op-ed itself. So nothing wrong.
Or is it? Thailand ranks sadly 107th on the list of countries with the most freedom of the press, out of a list of 167 countries. Eritrea is now at number 167 and newspapers and websites report there, cautiously, only about the weather:
And now the weather: SUNNY!
King of the Citizens
If I were to go into the history of censorship in Thailand I would have to go back to the early 19th century and this blog would turn into a book. The main culprit for the abysmal 107th place is Article 112 of the Constitution, which states that anyone who defames, damages, or speaks ill of McDonald's employees, McDonald's products, or otherwise speaks negatively about McDonald's, can count on a prison sentence of up to at least three, and up to fifteen years per McDonald's violation.
Fair enough. We know where we stand. Hands off McDonald's. Until you read in the newspaper that a 61-year-old man has been sentenced to 20 years in prison for allegedly sending a text message to a secretary to the Prime Minister expressing his displeasure with McDonald's cheeseburgers.
The man, a cattle breeder, was lifted from his bed, convicted and imprisoned. He has always denied ever sending the SMS - it is very easy for phone-savvy wizards to send SMS messages via a third party's number, but the judge would have none of that - and after a year in a Thai cell he paid for that punishment with death.
Abuse 112
It seems more and more that Article 112 is increasingly being abused to put the neighbor you hate, a political opponent or your mother-in-law behind bars. Creepy right? Creepy all the more, since the CEO of McDonald's publicly stated in 2005 that he was open to criticism. His message boiled down to:
“IF YOU DON'T CHIME MY HAMBURGERS, GOOD FRIENDS AS WELL”.
The Thai politicians are not listening to the message of the enlightened CEO. On the contrary, there are even parliamentarians who want to tighten up Article 112. So that they can more easily silence their political opponents.
In the meantime, I'm just plodding on with my failed metaphors and cold cheeseburgers…
It's a shame to start on Thailandblog about politics in the Netherlands. When Wilders resigned, everything immediately became more expensive, we will soon be allowed to pay double healthcare costs, the rental houses will become unaffordable and much more, which also stopped Wilders. Wilders is for the people, just like Taksin in Thailand.
Indeed Wilma .. Socialist rattle on a Thailand blog. Supposedly holding Thai politics up to the light of day while giving a 'quick' sneer from the underbelly of the 'ubermensch'
Sorry about this blog. I hope to be able to find a lot of information there in the future, and to be able to contribute to it.
And that they leave these kinds of articles behind. That's what you have 'Geenstijl' for or something.
Wilma and Pete,
If you do indeed read this blog, remember what you read!
Then go back to the blog of May 9, and read the story it's about again, maybe the bath will fall!
@ cor,
I'm glad you wrote this story like this, and that you got rid of it anyway, the itchy fingers, if you can't really say it!
Dear Cor
If the story is not about Wilders, but about repression, why start it with Wilders.
moderator: Deleted part of the comment that was off topic.
OK, MacDonalds is very liberal with free ideas, the number of blocked websites is now huge, just to name a few.
Websites that have nothing to do with MacDonald are also increasingly being blocked, including sometimes, yes, the website of De Telegraaf.
But whether we in the Netherlands should be happy with an actual blocking of political freedom by the press and politicians, ignoring a considerable number of voters, I highly doubt.
I think it's better, dear Cor, that you keep your clear aversion to the PVV and Wilders to yourself in this blog, and don't ruin your often good bits with this aversion.
Judging by the comments, there are more who think that way.
Amen, Omin, Satu
Wilma and Pete,
I think you'd better follow John's advice. It is not about Wilders at all, but about freedom of expression, which we do have in the Netherlands, and in Thailand there are quite a few restrictions regarding the highest good that we know in the Netherlands. That's what this blog is about. I kind of expected this kind of response. You guys fall pretty short and are therefore no better than the thought police this blog is about. You don't allow what you consider to be 'socialist rattle'. Geez, we're reading something that goes against the great Blonde Leader. Shame!!
Why do you have to start with the name Wilders. Am I that stupid or are you stupid, or are you that Green left figure.
Heiko,
Read Heyko. Read. It's not about Wilders at all. I'll spell it out for you. I quote Wilders - someone I disagree with - and that I'm glad he can just say what he thinks. That is allowed in the Netherlands. A great asset, that freedom of expression in our frog country. That you apparently think otherwise, because you immediately start prancing and call people stupid, that aside.
Then the play brings up the situation in Thailand, where things are, unfortunately, a bit different. Subsequently, a kind of metaphor is used in order not to exaggerate the matter, given the sensitivity of the subject (Article 112 of the Constitution, are you still there?).
You know Heiko, the reading part is the least difficult. The reaction part, you really need to practice on that.
Dear Cor,
The Constitution says: “The King is inviolable etc…” but article 112 is in the Thai Criminal Code and not in the Constitution.
You are always very fierce in attacking others and often rightly so, but make sure you have the facts straight yourself.
@Betse Tino,
You're right, but it doesn't matter much to uncle SMS. Does it?
Not for uncle SMS anymore, unfortunately, but for the more than 100 others who are in prison on similar charges and convictions. The Penal Code is simply easier to change than the Constitution. I find it very unfortunate that Yingluck has already rejected amendments to Article 112, even more so, shameful.
The current Constitution (2007) guarantees in paragraph 36 “freedom of expression unless it is restricted by other laws, especially in the field of national security, public order and morality…” Well, this makes me very despondent but what else could you expect from a bunch of generals?
heiko
You ask Cor whether he is so smart or you so stupid.
Read the story again quietly, and don't think about it yourself.
Think you get it then. (I hope)
Nice piece, absolutely right. Let's hope they listen to the MC CEO before the best man closes his eyes.
As for Geert, I think things are getting more expensive because he got out. As a social liberal, you shouldn't know anything about him. Bit short-sighted to accuse THB of socialist texts/propaganda ..
There is an increasing trend in Thailand to sue people in general for libel and slander: from 340 charges in 1961, over 900 in 1995 to 2.600 in 1.
Lèse majeste charges were very stable between 1947 and 2005, between 5 and 10 per year. After 2005, the number of indictments shoots up to 150-160 per year, especially in and after 2006. How could that be? It is also strange that the conviction rate from 1989 until now is almost 100%! (That applies to all lawsuits, by the way!)
Source: David Streckfuss, Truth on Trial in Thailand, Defamation, treason and lese-majeste, New York, 2011
Of course freedom of expression is at stake, but I think, as you yourself suggested, abuse of power is a more important cause. And the way courts function.
In addition to corruption and (domestic) violence, this is one of the very nasty sides of Thailand and it is good that you bring this to the attention. If I didn't have to take care of my 12-year-old son, I would return to the Netherlands. I often wonder if there is anything we can do. Reading books and grumbling on a blog doesn't really help.
Dear Cor.. Look at you doing it again.. “the Big Blonde Leader” what does that have to do with your piece and freedom of expression?
Then write down your frustrations in a separate essay
Had understood your piece very well, and read that you think the Netherlands is a neat country where freedom of expression is commonplace.
As a like-minded person I say fine, let's fight for that freedom of expression, is under quite a bit of pressure nowadays I just say. And no Thai (m-eastern) states PLEASE.
Yes.. Geert Wilders is a champion of freedom and freedom of expression..Is there something wrong with that? As the only politician in the Netherlands, he dares to open his 'mouth' (excuse editors), and admittedly, sometimes a bit 'a lot of mouth' for my taste. But do emphasize the points that he and the PVV consider important.
That you have an opinion about 'that Big Blonde Leader' wonderful for you, and I hope for you that it is a little thought through. What you see and hear very often in recent years is the babbling of the MSM! It was not necessary to give 'good' Geert Wilders a shout out. (and a contradiction to your blog) Your credentials are now known. And that may have been your intention!
That 'falling through the crack' comment! oh well..just reinforces my arguments in that first comment.
Best regards. Pete
That you don't agree with Wilders, ok….But to call that man an idiot….Then the nearly 1,5 million people who vote for him are also idiots? Always love to read your pieces and comments, but you completely missed the mark with that word here.
It is a pity that Thailand's blog also participates in getting Wilders through the piss, it seems like a national sport to portray him as a ridiculous or idiot, agitator and hate monger.
I find it very cheap to write your personal political opinion as fact, but you are free to do so.
The Netherlands and the Dutch are not easily manipulated and are critical enough and easily see through the massive offensive to demonize Wilders.
If Wilders is scolded enough and everyone parrots each other uncritically, then these opinions seem as if they are facts. Unfortunately, we are not falling for it and that will become clear after the elections.
Editorial team: Thailandblog does not do politics, not in the Netherlands, not in Thailand.
Two words have been named after Wilders:
Rioter: That is actually demonstrable. Many people also like that about Wilders.
Malloot: Wilders himself uses words such as 'crazy' and 'company poodle'. In that context, a word like “Malloot” is justifiable. This is a column and they are often strongly put down
Finally:
This is the last comment allowed about Wilders. The column is about freedom of expression in the Netherlands and Thailand. In the Netherlands you can call Wilders an idiot and Thailand you can end up in Bang Kwaan for a few years.
I don't agree with you, but will fight to the death for your right to say it - Voltaire
If, like someone else said, if I didn't have someone to take care of, I would have left for NL like a rocket.
Now it is not everything in NL either, but there you can still say everything you think, BUT there was a ruling by a Dutch court, a few years ago, on an indictment against Elsevier that, please note, Freedom of speech exists or does not apply to the Internet.
Moderator: This comment was not posted due to generalizing comments.
And I would like a few more.
So Cor's comments to Wilders are not generalizing?
It seems to me that, for example, a comment on my part to more or less keep politics out of the blog is not really generalizing.
Anyway, I guess, the moderator decides.
I had no idea there were so many mistakes in my unposted comment.
Am I wrong again.....
Two days ago I commented on the death of that gentleman and gave my opinion on the way people in this country settle accounts using that article of the law.
It was not necessary for me to use a politician of any persuasion — etc — to express my views on this country's way of doing things in this area. So it can also be done in another way, Mr Verhoef.
You mean you're for freedom of speech as long as it's your opinion? If it's not your opinion then they're morons? Well, I would like a few more. Thaksin is surely an idiot too?
Yes, agree that Cor should make sure he has it straight and also that Thaksin is an idiot. You can call such a thing with impunity, because maloot comes from maillot, which means stocking wearer, ie harlequin. In politics, that is a prerequisite, after all.
There are fast food chains all over the world, which are operated/exploited in different ways, it depends on the clientele visiting the business which business vision is applied.
For the tourist who may only visit the store once, he has the choice to eat there or not.
And that's what it's all about, having the freedom to choose whether to eat there or not, and that's the freedom that the readers of this blog/forum have, regardless of the counterargument.
Hereby hoping for the freedom of the Moderator, to come back to one of the first paragraphs.
You can call it an art of politicians to say what people want to hear, but that is as always, promising a lot and giving little makes the madman live in joy.
Hereby hope that all expats and Thailand visitors, editors and readers do not turn their back on their love and trust in the Thai people and the beautiful country.
Best regards to all readers
chris bleacher
@ John and Cor,
Really I've said it before but, I really don't understand most of the readers of this blog! There are only 1 or 2 readers who really read the blog!
And I already noticed on May 9, when Uncle SMS passed away, that Cor didn't leave it at that, and indeed a super nice piece of work. And I also enjoy the reactions of the readers! Everyone can fill in what sense.
Unfortunately it was necessary to write it like this, but it's perfect, in my eyes! And it does me good.
Fortunately, finally a story with content translated to Mac Donalds, however, 112 means a lot different than the well-known cheeseburger giant, if you catch my drift. In my opinion, people who do not understand this have nothing to add to this blog.
best regards to those who can understand the above.
Hans-Ajax
I can understand that the legal restrictions regarding freedom of expression can differ per constitutional state, that is also the case in Thailand, where criticism of the royal family is simply more sensitive than in many other countries with a monarchy.
But even if he committed a 'crime' by insulting a restaurant chain with the big yellow letter M, the punishment is out of all proportion and bears no relation to whether or not it has been committed.
It is sad that this man had to spend his last days like this, all the more so he and his loved ones stated that they did not even know how to send a text message and have always denied it as such.
My mother-in-law should be careful because she can't read or write, let alone how to send a text message.
Although she is an ardent supporter of the Thai monarchy, she does not like the hamburgers from MacDonalds, unlike the chicken legs from KFC, which she loves.
If your comment is inconsistent with the content of this blog, you will be removed, with or without reason. But the same blog is allowed to comment negatively on a Dutch politician, who has a large following in the Netherlands. Not that Wilders has my political preference, but the contradiction of what is and is not allowed on this blog can be called poignant.
I have only 1 comment for this submitted piece: ridiculous to open like this with an article that deserves quite some serious attention, namely freedom of the press and free expression.
But to sneer at a politician elected by a good democratic system in the first sentences and thereby condemn the people who voted for him, would be worth no more than an apology.
Funny that you can even read here that there are people who want / can score by consciously / unconsciously involving Wilders and PVV in a negative way. no problem at all. That is the freedom of expression that Wilders strives for. And hey every part of the world there are negative and positive things to mention. Some think the grass is greener elsewhere and others don't. Good for pointing out problems. Good to air your opinion and good to be able to discuss it. What I often regret is that it sometimes gets very personal. And that the level drops at some point in a discussion.
Greetings
George an Ajax supporter 😉
Why, freedom of expression in the Netherlands? Don't make me laugh. Just read in the Telegraaf, where else, that a meter-high wooden penis of artist Peter de Koning from Steenbergen has been seized by the police. He had created and posted this dick as an expression of his opinion about police misconduct towards his daughter.
I am convinced that that penis should have stayed in Thailand; with or without article 112.
Great piece Corey,
Totally agree with you.
I also live in Thailand, but I'm afraid to hang the Dutch flag, because that
can be explained as if I cut a piece of the Thai flag.
I don't miss the irony in your comment.
But you know: fear is a bad teacher.
What strikes me is the selective outrage. Some Wilderians and sympathizers of that gentleman fall into a collective spasm when Wilders is described as a rioter, shouting horn, great Blonde Leader (party is not democratic, PVV members have nothing to say), conveniently forgetting that the same Wilders puts away, it talks about “scum villages”, “Kopvodtax” and “crazy” dissenters.
As soon as someone writes that it could be the other way around, the house is too small.
This piece is actually about what Voltaire, that enlightened thinker, and already mentioned above said 200 years ago.
The fact that Wilderians see this story as an attack on their ideas says more about them than about freedom of expression or about the situation in Thailand.
It is good that the further comments have been posted.
It would be good if the article that the ambassador of NL in TH placed years ago in the B Post would be published. I have that somewhere and will look it up and submit it to the blog.
Indeed Cor.
Politicians should listen a little more to a monarch; slightly less in the Netherlands.
Anyway, I love living in Thailand. I am also happy to return to the Netherlands Amsterdam. Every country has something negative and positive. Go where you feel at home. Been coming here for 6 years now and going there every 3 months. Thailand a place to be….for me 😉
Dear Cor, I have read your story very carefully and I am sorry that you express your opinion very clearly about a Dutch politician, but you can expect that from a man with a strong opinion.
I enjoy reading this blog but please leave your personal opinions aside and if not then at least accept the expected criticism
It's bad enough that in Thailand the only Dutch-language TV. channel BVN is a disguised broadcast of political parties with the programs De Wereld Draait Door and Paul en Witteman, (talking about rioters!!)
You could also have simply written about the great Dutch good, which fortunately is freedom of expression without quoting Wilders here.
I also agree with you that there is a big difference between McDonald's in Thailand and in the Netherlands, in the Netherlands no one would be concerned if you would draw or write something on a photo of McDonald's, but that is playing with fire in Thailand.
I'm not allowed anything John I'm just observing.
A columnist who writes about freedom of expression in Thailand on a Thai blog does not have to start about a politician in the Netherlands, anyone.
Often only the headlines are read and certainly remembered, which is why your reaction to Wilma and Pete's writing is strange to say the least.
(Wilma and Pete. Please read the story, not just the first two paragraphs. It is not about Wilders, but about Thailand)
This is the same as someone writing "the editors and columnists of Thailand blog consists only of Red Rascals", while the article is not about politics at all.
@Riny,
luckily you don't decide what I write, or what anyone else writes. Strange that you don't see the irony in the reactions of the Wilderians who value freedom of expression so highly.
Yes yes whether or not you can freely express your thoughts in Thailand and the changes in the law in this regard, I leave it in the middle. We all know (Thailand connoisseurs and lesser Thailand connoisseurs) how things work there, and we should not agree with it….Only…I seriously wonder if we (here in Europe) can just express our opinion (in writing) vent about…., or is there no chance this will or could ever be used against you if you move in there.. Might sound like paranoia but…..??
Well Cor, you can see how “free” we are here in Ned. still be, we are allowed to have an opinion about everything, but oh woe if the followers of the one who pretends to consider freedom of expression as a great good, they will immediately try to silence you.
Am I sitting here well; is this another Dutch hotline, now about “Wilders, yes or no”?
Dear fellow responders, this piece is about freedom of expression in Thailand. To put the situation in Thailand in a clear perspective, Cor compares it with the Netherlands and who better to serve as an example than “our own” Geert Wilders; the only politician against whom a lawsuit has ever been brought against Article 7 of the Dutch Constitution (NGW): freedom of expression. Of course he could also have taken Rutte or Verhagen, but neither of them has such a strong opinion; in any case, not an opinion that would shake Article 7 NGW to its foundations. One laughs a lot and the other talks a lot, but they both don't actually say anything (oops, what am I saying now).
The genes who are pro Wilders should actually be proud of this comparison, because he is, following Pim Fortuyn, the person who has broken up the much-talking meaninglessness in The Hague a bit.
So far my opinion on this hotline.