Muslim demonstration in Bangkok
As in several places in the world, protests organized by Muslims also took place in Bangkok.
On Thursday, September 27, a few hundred Muslims had gathered in the main square in front of Central World on Ratchadamri Road to express their dissatisfaction. As the text on the banners showed, they feel attacked.
On the one hand, it was an amusing sight for an outsider to observe a large number of men, often dressed in long robes and with the well-known white round skull cap on their heads, together with black veiled women. On the other hand, it also makes you think how reprehensible people can deal with their faith. When I see men walking there with the Koran in hand, I still get bad feelings.
An amplifier system was mounted on a pick-up, and a lot of shouting was heard from it, which was regularly supported by the demonstrators present with handclaps and jeers. A dangerous-looking black flag with white text certainly didn't exude much cheer either. At the end of the speech, the spokesperson shouted something to the assembled crowd three times, after which the attendees all stretched out their hand and arm, accompanied by a short cry, towards the sky. It was like “long shall he live” followed by a powerful threefold “hurray, hurray, hurray.”
Police present
A whole brigade Thai agents, a kind of ME, armed with shields and helmets, stood neatly in line to intervene immediately in case of irregularities. Fortunately, it didn't have to come to that.
Prophet Muhammad
To convince non-Muslims, leaflets were distributed about how good, sensible and forgiving Muslims really are. “Who is Muhammad? You should know this man!” The great blessings of the Prophet such as gratitude, forgiveness, equality, tolerance and cordiality are widely measured in the folder, after which the name of Mohamed or Prophet is written, the 'Peace be upon him' follows.
The ideal husband
Aisha, Muhammad's wife, related about her honorable husband: “He always helped me with the housework, took care of his clothes, mended his shoes, and cleaned the floor. He milked, cared for and fed his animals and did household chores.” Frankly, I know a number of men who are not inferior to Mohamed in that respect.
Gandhi and Bernard Shaw
And in case you still have doubts about Islam, you should, according to the brochure, take a good look at the Quran. Non-Muslims such as Mahatma Gandhi and the British writer Bernard Shaw are also cited. The latter is said to have once written that the world needs a man like Mohamed.
It may be so, but unfortunately there are still a large number of idiots in this world who interpret the words of the prophet Mohamed differently. And this does not only apply to Islam. How beautiful the world would be if all of whatever faith or ideology lived up to the words of their master, example, prophet, or whoever in the right way.
I'm starting to gag a bit from that fanaticism, where do they get it all from I would say. I myself am not going to demonstrate when my fish swim in the wrong direction in the aquarium. One thing is certain, the Thai will not be fooled, like the Dutch government.
These demonstrations indicate exactly the countries where I never go on vacation. In fact, I don't want to fly with Jordanian Air, Quatar Air, Etihad or whatever from that area because you never know how things will go on the return flight.
Thai Muslims could get a lot of tourists if they made sure the south is safe. Was once watching a sunset in South Phuket and many Muslim families were there for the same reason. They wanted to take pictures with me en masse and I even received marriage proposals from them. It seemed that these people had never seen a white person before. They acted completely normal to me but I will never forget it.
If southern Thailand would be safe, I would like to travel around or even further by train to Singapore, for example.
Dear Piet, you can have your opinion about the Muslim faith. I find your unfounded and nonsense-based opinion about airlines reprehensible. I notice that you have never flown with it, (you miss Emirates by the way) because one thing I know for sure, they are not inferior to what you fly with and even dare to say better and safer!
I also do not fly with an “Arab” on principle, that is my right!
Safety? Dear Math unfounded Piet's opinion is not so unfounded!
October 26 at a meeting of the IATA:
“The accident rate of the middle east is 6 times worse than the global average”
“Middle eastern airlines need to focus on their safety record”
And I can give you plenty of examples of incidents/accidents from the companies in question that Piet and you mention.
Unfortunately, a lot is swept under the “flying” carpet by those involved…
October 2009 must be October 2009, forget the year.
There has been some improvement here and there since then, but not enough.
Dear Donald, you should read what is written. I'm not going to go into that because it's getting offtopic. So final and only response to this. I think Etihad is top and I think Emirates is top and I think Qatar is top. Piet refers to an attack with an airplane and not to a "normal accident". As if 9/11 happened to Arab companies.
math,
You write to Piet, "they are not inferior to what you fly with, even dare to claim better and safer"
Unfortunately…………………………
Dear Donald and Piet, you are talking about the safety of "Muslim" airlines, if you are so good at looking up IATA safety records, take the time to look at those of china airlines. Many people who fly to Bangkok fly with China airlines, without knowing that this airline has one of the worst safety records!! But it is again so tendentious to put down the "Muslim" lines as unsafe here!!
Do you know the feeling when you get off the plane in Bangkok after a few hours and see that the plane from China has crashed in Taiwan?
I do .
If I have to go back I will walk, although I have to be through Iran, there are also friendly people.
@ Peter,
I only replied to Math who wrote to Piet, "They are not inferior, etc." and “dare to say even safer and better”
I wasn't just talking about “Muslim” airlines!
I completely agree with the first writer of a comment! (Dave, "I'm starting to gag from those fanatics etc)
And that is also the reason, plus some others related to safety, that I do NOT fly with those companies on principle! Just as I don't have to "celebrate" holidays in those countries
I've been through enough with these people and they are not "my type" at all!
As for CA, I know enough, very close, about the flying world and know all about CA's infamous flight and their safety record! (flight 611 25/5/2002)
It is a pity that the editors allow the writer to use (abuse?) the blog to ridicule a religion in an unfounded way.
Nowhere in this article is it clear that the author has solid knowledge of the subject. Religion is a sensitive subject and is experienced very personally by people. Discussions about religion lead to little constructiveness and Islam is certainly not something that you could call typical Thai.
If it is nevertheless decided to write a critical article about a religion, then come up with substantive arguments based on sound knowledge.
First, this was a peaceful demonstration. I think there is such a thing as the right to demonstrate, generally recognized as a good democratic principle. Secondly, the content of the written and verbal statements seems incomprehensible to the writer, so that he cannot make a balanced judgment about it. He comes with qualifiers like “shouting”, “booing”, “not much mirth”. You often see that at demonstrations! On the other hand, the ME was “neatly lined up”. How biased can a piece be, while Khun Peter is a strong opponent of prejudice. Many reactions have been refused for less, but Joseph Jongen is allowed to go ahead with hindrance, perhaps under the motto “it's just a column”.
Can we soon expect pieces with a similar tone about Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism? Or should we treat it with respect?
And then there's Pete, who apparently thinks he'll be blown up for sure if he gets on a plane to the Middle East, and thinks it's worth noting that Muslims acted "completely normal" towards him. Who's weird? She or you?
PS: To be clear: I have nothing to do with religions, I am against violence and bigotry and believe that women are equal to men and should be treated as such. I am against creating religious conflicts based on gut feelings and misunderstanding. Religions can have evil elements in them, but the greatest danger is ignorance.
Dear Maarten, Nowhere in my article have I offended any faith. If you read the very last sentence of the story again, you will come to the conclusion that I value even the prophets or teachers of every faith. I do have a terrible dislike for the fanatics who abuse the doctrine and only act aggressively and violently with attacks and murder under the guise of faith. I was an eyewitness to this demonstration and gave my opinion on what I saw. Something you apparently want to forbid me. Freedom of expression is a great good that is not even prohibited on this blog, if it is properly worded. I did not write an article about religion, nor did I ridicule it. Your comment about not being able to understand the spoken word is true, but I can thoroughly feel and describe the atmosphere. Furthermore, the leaflets that were handed out were in English and I quoted sentences from them in the article. It was by no means my intention to write a thorough article on religion, and I never did. By the way, don't worry about my knowledge of it, I have more than enough of it. From now on, read a little more carefully before making oversimplified comments. Sincerely, Joseph Boy
I would like it if Muslims would protest against the atrocities committed by their Muslim brothers in Thailand's three southern provinces, instead of showing their long toes over some idiotic anti-Islam film. Pathetic goofballs.
Cor, why don't you say a word about the atrocities committed against the Muslims. It really isn't one-way traffic. I myself often travel from Nakhon Si Thammarat to Songkla via the coast road, here the Muslims form the vast majority, more minarets than coconut trees ;), never had a single problem, in fact I experience them as extremely friendly and hospitable.
@Peter, I understand that, but we're talking about the protesters right? I myself have also traveled through the South of Thailand, and through Indonesia. And through Malaysia, and I also know that the vast majority of Muslims are ordinary people who want to lead a normal life, want to see their children go to school and have daily food.
But could you perhaps explain to me why these Muslim demonstrators only take to the streets when the Prophet is insulted and NOT when another Muslim rubber tapper in Yala is taken to another world by Muslims?
Thanks in advance.
Moderator: comments without punctuation marks will not be posted.
Moderator: comments without punctuation marks will not be posted.
A nice report of the demonstration. However, there is 1 problem: I am sure that > 90% of the demonstrators (including those outside Thailand) have not seen the film in question.
So there is a demonstration on the suggestion/order of the mullahs. The common people allow themselves to be incited and believe in the afterlife with many virgins.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years and I know how intolerant and inconsistent most Muslims are. Also how they think about the western world: “Christian dogs”.
It would indeed be nice if everyone was concerned with his/her faith and left dissenters alone. Unfortunately, that is not the case with Muslims. They want to introduce sharia for everyone if possible and let the country be ruled by ayatollahs.
There are, of course, also open-minded Muslims. But they are a minority worldwide.
“The greatest danger is ignorance”, I read somewhere above. How true!
Ignorance calls upon itself the docile masses - the "subdued" - cry.
Ignorance is the weapon of every self-declared god-belief.
You believe in the unbelievable, otherwise it is not faith. 'Believing' in the reasonable, the provable, is the practice of science.
That the "subjects" give themselves over to phantism is the result of believing in the implausible, for there is no reason whatsoever to continue to believe in the implausible; the believer (and incited by his clergy) must compete against the reasonable man. That is not possible with reasonable arguments, but it is possible with the display of a 'holy' fanaticism, ignorant fanaticism. With all the danger that entails.
You have to see that "Muslim" is the Arabic word for "subdued". That is not to say that no Catholic is subject to his clergy (and every Protestant Christian does not consider himself subject to -his interpretation of- the Bible), but something has changed in Europe since the Enlightenment. Don't let anyone say that the Enlightenment came from Christianity, because that's just not true; how could that be: the Enlightenment is inspired by the “Classics”, who had no god, an extrahumanly strict, but a mythical bunch of gods with magnified human qualities. It is not Christianity that is the foreland of our scientific practice, but especially the ancient Greeks. Euclid - anyone who has been to anything like an HBS has been introduced to geometry - was not a Christian, but a Greek mathematician about 1000 years before the New Testament was written.
Incidentally, the Arabs also had the lead in the practice of mathematics for a time - somewhere in the European Middle Ages (that is why we use their numerals and not the Roman ones).
In short: it all - complete with the rises and falls of influential empires - has a history, of which the main thing about what Muslims are doing to our world today - and of course there are unsavory counter-reactions - is that they have missed the Enlightenment. That Enlightenment, with its credo that man is an intelligent being, has brought Europe out of the slums of its Middle Ages.
The European has learned to be tolerant (so democratic and no longer theocratic). That tolerance is sometimes misapplied: you can be tolerant of everything, but especially if you want to be tolerant, not against the intolerance. The danger with which the Muslim world confronts us is therefore unavoidable. It is quite understandable that a spectator of a Muslim demonstration shudders.
I love cous cous, and always say: Seeing is believing. We can't blame anyone, certainly not mohammed and Allah. be checked.
Moderator: Don't respond exclusively to each other and focus the discussion exclusively on Thailand.
What is the attitude towards Muslims in particular? For example, I had plans to move from Koh Chang to Phuket Island; I (almost) abandoned it because I think I see that the problems there are not only fueled by a small local border dispute, but also - and much more - by the large global Muslim problem.
Europe shows only a faded faith in a one true and devilishly severe God. Buddhism knows no one true god or any inhuman 'superior' power whatsoever. Well, and the Muslim faith knows such a supreme and fearful supreme being, with a fanatic and deadly missionary urge attached to it. And an associated form of government.
Look wide around you and you see what is going on on the spot better.
Moderator: irrelevant text removed.
The moderator has removed what he considers "irrelevant" from my previous comment. As a result, the conclusion in my last line lacks its most important substantiation. Dear moderator: I don't sign up for what it says now. To put or not to put, I would say, but not one sentence or paragraph and not another. Incidentally, it is precisely that conclusion and how I -in the deleted part-e - wrote to it, should -I think- precisely the moderator should be concerned.
Just a few brief experiences with Ali Ben Zine.
When my customers from Jordan Air invited me to travel to Thailand with them, I was invited to visit their country for 3 days.
Lucky as I am, an unprecedented snow shower started to fall for me during the landing.
There are 2 main roads in that country, everyone stopped to take the snow home, opened the trunk and lowered the back seats.
My excursions could not take place because of the snowfall, it was unique that I am in a photo in the desert with snow up to my knees.
Forced to be in Amman I witnessed an attack by car which stopped after the man landed on the ground 30 meters away to load it.
My then sexmate was blonde and no man could leave her alone.
I will never forget the eyes of a flight attendant who looked at me questioningly to save her.
On the way back to NL there turned out to be no more room because the plane was full of men.
At the airport we got into trouble because a cleaner made it clear that my daughter-in-law had to be killed because they had a child together with my son without being married
3 days later I was in Athens with my baby.
Lucky again that I was my own boss, otherwise I could have been fired.
In NL, I was jumped on my back by 2 people while locking my bike, who looked very tanned under that hood.
The reaction to the report was that I should be happy not to have been stung.
NL. I was done with and went to Thailand.
In a village near Hua hin there is also such a community with really very nice people with their cloth on their head.
Also a minaret with sound, but it doesn't matter if you are sounded out of bed at 6 o'clock in the morning through the speaker of the monk.
First after my events in NL. come between them with a prejudice.
I can kiss these people now .
Islam is a word with various meanings.
You hear it a lot in the pub.
For the police, if you are in traffic, it is filling pockets again.
1 former neighbor had made that as a badge on his wheelchair.
In faith it is war.
People if you read this give the one who is close to you a hug, even if you are chang, the skin color does not matter.
Dear Pim,
You write in a way that puts too much strain on my reading comprehension, which may be just me. I don't always write clearly either. I gather from your piece that you have already experienced special events, such as snow showers in the desert and attacks and what not. You write that these are short experiences with Ali Ben Zine. With the oil, from which gasoline is made, have Arabs become rich? And - to put it succinctly - are they good, or not, in your opinion? I'm just guessing.
Mr Willem van Doorn.
I take my writing style with a pinch of salt.
I try to explain that there are good people and bad people as well as among the Muslims , among us and other cultures .
I did not meet 1 woman alone on the street.
Look here how an oil farmer behaves towards a Thai lady.
They are disgusted with them if you ask the ladies their opinion, but money makes some happy.
That's how they sneak in here to dominate the world in the future.
Jovial matters do not exist in Thailand, otherwise there would have been many more Achmeds here.
Before we start a lengthy discussion on this as I experience in your short career on the blog I will close here .
Mister Pim. You cannot be followed by me. You write about all kinds of things and then to clarify (?) what you mean (or at least in response) about all sorts of things again.
I miss consistency. Again, this could just be me.
You want to stop this back and forth writing - I can't call it a discussion - right? At least I think I understand that. Well, I agree with that then.
“How beautiful the world would be if all of whatever creed or ideology would rightly live up to the words of their master, example, prophet, or whoever.”
I agree, but what is the "right way"?
I would rather change this last sentence to: How beautiful the world would be if all of whatever faith or ideology took the words of their master, example, prophet, or whoever to themselves and respected every other human being and respect in (different) thinking.