About madmen and fools
Einstein
While the whole of the Netherlands holds its breath for our Prince Friso - will he make it, or won't he make it? - I once again throw my arms in the air and shout "forgive them lord, they don't know what they are doing".
You, oh reader, are no doubt raising an eyebrow and thinking 'what's going on in Thailand now?' I'll be happy to tell you that. We have been stuck for half a year now with a government whose cabinet members have been scrambled together by our man in Dubai, Thaksin Shinawatra. The weight of the portfolios thrown into their laps was based on the degree of loyalty to Thaksin and not whether the person in question was the best candidate for the job.
This became painfully clear during the floods last autumn, when the brand new Minister of Science and Technology (of all places) came up with the genius idea of drumming up a few hundred barges to push the water towards the sea. Every kindergarten student understands that such a ludicrous action does not help.
This week, the brand new Minister of Education, Mr. Somchai, suddenly made the news with the announcement that from now on students will have to assess the performance of their teachers and that any salary increase or promotion would depend on that assessment. If that's actually going to happen, you'll get this kind of stuff in the classroom:
Teacher: “Somsak, I have already given you three warnings. Go wiggle and report to mister Ekachai”.
Somsak: Fine, if you want to continue working for that pittance for the rest of your life. I am going already…"
Teacher: “Somsak, no, I didn't mean it that way. Come back Somsak, please, nooooo!!
But this expert in the field of education had even more arrows in his quiver to raise the abysmal level of education somewhat. “Monday, English Day” an idea from its predecessor; who had chosen Monday as the day on which all Thai children should communicate with each other in English as much as possible, he was going to abolish that. According to the minister, speaking a foreign language was against human nature… This minister really thinks so. In the same breath he announced that he would 'import' 5000 Chinese teachers from China Thailand teaching Mandarin in schools. Chinese is apparently not a foreign language and not everyone in China is learning English like crazy.
To call this man insane would be an insult to any insane person.
Last week, Plodprasop -or tugboat fame- was also released from the closed facility, popularly known as Government House, and he announced that this government is going to build a dam. The plans for the dam have been there for thirty years, but the actual construction never happened because the location of the proposed dam is exactly above an active seismic fault line. A small earthquake would then be enough to burst the dam and the ensuing catastrophe would reduce last year's floods to a minor inconvenience.
Don't care, that fault line, according to the minister. Why not build that dam somewhere else? you, attentive reader, will wonder. Well that's how it is. To be able to build the intended dam, 60.000 rai of teak forests must first be cut down - a rai is 1600 square meters - and the price of teak is astronomically high. Do you feel it, dear reader?
The whole idea of allowing the construction of the dam to go ahead is based on the extremely lucrative sale of teak wood and the associated millions that some powerful figures in the government will earn from it.
As if all this wasn't enough, airhead Yingluck Shinawatra, our Prime Minister and sister of, came on TV with her lovely face to reassure everyone by reporting that the three Iranians who had been arrested after they had tried to with home-built bombs, were certainly NOT terrorists.
No, of course they weren't terrorists. They were just three fun-loving Iranians who had been helping each other with each other's bombshell homework. Bad guys actually. Hey, we've all been young.
Einstein was right: The only difference between genius and stupidity is that stupidity knows no bounds…
Nice story, Cor!
I want to tell that to an Englishman, but I have a good translation for "go and wiggle". I can say “please go” or “fo” but that doesn't cover the load. You as an English teacher at a Thai school probably have a nice expression for that.
Haha, Gringo, “wiggle”, I would translate it as “get your ass outta here”. That's what I say in cases like this 😉
Cor, wonderfully said. I like to see articles like this on the blog. That indicates that this society still has a long way to go before they can ever reach our level. People like me who have lived here for years should not criticize this society. Still, we love this country. Will it ever be okay? I don't think I will experience it again. Maybe my seven-year-old Thai granddaughter. But that will also be a dream.
Maybe her kids?
Cor.
I have very mixed ideas about that. I would like nothing more than to live in a country where a people think logically, without corruption and without creepy scumbags who want to maintain the status quo, in other words, a population that looks up to assholes because they have the right last name (I put it all a bit simple now)
A Thai society, where things are more fairly distributed and there really is justice for all, no, we and our children don't experience that anymore, I'm afraid.
On the other hand, I also think that Europe, and the Netherlands, provides enough material to write a scathing article about the state of affairs there.
Cor, keep it up!
You bet, Hans. Until deportation is on the horizon 😉
Well, you can make jokes about it, but the longer you live here and hopefully understand the Thai way of life more and more, you will come to the realization that many things are actually sad. Still, I hope that Thailand will not ever reach “our level” because it is often sad and sad there too.
After living and working in Thailand for more than 10 years, a friend of decided that he couldn't take it anymore and went back to Europe with his whole Thai family.
Look, we as guests of this country can just leave, most Thai are sentenced to life imprisonment.
@Chang Noi,
You got that absolutely right. Most Thais have a life sentence. For me personally, the joys still far outnumber the frustrations. Nevertheless, I also know people who have fled screaming to their country of origin.
@hans, an open design? Now you say it…
Just when you think it couldn't get any crazier, it gets crazier: Thai police now believe that the mysterious stickers posted all over BKK were used to mark the escape route of Iranian bombers after an attack.
Tomorrow we will probably read that the Thai police have found suspicious breadcrumbs everywhere.
No, it's very reassuring that the Thai cops are digging into this case.
If there is no money to be made, the Thai police are just a bunch of toddlers who can't do anything. But if there are some baths at the end of the rainbow, then the whole corps will turn out and real action will take place (the whole corps will also turn out when people get their extra income, but that aside).
By the way, that Teak wood does not yield millions of baht for some, but rather billions of baht.
There is enough money to be made for the Thai police, they just don't want to do it. Driving without a helmet, no proper lighting, not using turn signals, driving too fast, wrong parking I could hand out 1000 fines in Bkk within a day. I don't know why they don't do that, I think it would be easier to earn somewhere else.
Nice story, but Thailand is just fine with it. It certainly shouldn't be the Netherlands, but you know that joke, right?
"If you ever need a brain transplant, you should always choose Thai brains, because they are little used"
Yes, a pity about this beautiful country. The lack of good education destroys a lot.
I have now met enough Thai people to know that it is certainly not due to the effort or the lack of intelligence. But much more to the baggage they are given and the problem of acquiring knowledge if you have to live on a minimum income.
the teachers of a primary school earn about 30000 baht per/m, which I do not call minimal
Anthony.
Dear Anthony,
Are you sure? Then they would earn significantly more than the civil servants with a bachelor's degree whose salaries have recently risen.
I also think I read that the starting salary of a police officer is 8.000 baht per month.
Perhaps other blog readers can shed some (monetary) light on the matter.
me are 3 teachers of Eng. known who work in a primary school earning 30000 baht
they are expats
anthony
I thought you were talking about Thai teachers. 30k for an expat is rather poor
@Anthony Zoeteweij,
Where did you get that story? I have been working in education in Bangkok for ten years and know that Thai teachers earn between 9000 (starting salary) and 26000 (after 30 years of service) baht. Before you post anything here, please check that you are not talking nonsense. That will be appreciated by everyone.
Dear Anthony,
I think you are wrong. Depending on their working hours, the farang teachers can earn around 25k in primary education and slightly more in secondary education, assuming they work at a state school. Private schools could pay quite a bit more.
A Government Officer starts today for about 8.000 baht/month and no longer has a pension plan. The maximum wage achievable in this position is about 28.000 baht gross. In the past they received NOTHING for 2 years, at least 2.000 baht/month. If you want to earn more, you must ensure that you become a High rank Government Officer (director, for example) then you will be in a different scale and the starting salary is approximately 40.000.
In my humble opinion, the Thai education system is actually based on 3 pillars, namely: the family, Buddhism and the royal family. (in random order)
Not wanting to say with this that Thailand is a backward country, on the contrary, but if it wants to participate in the momentum of the peoples, the education system must be changed considerably - mind you - without wanting to take away those 3 pillars, I hasten to add because the Thai must also be able to remain Thai.
Incidentally, to be honest, that modest opinion is not entirely my own, don't ask me for a link, I once read it from a Thai critic who expressed his opinion in the BangkokPost.
And everything takes its time.
Dear Charles,
I could put it all down here, but I've already written so much on this subject. These 3 things should indeed be kept outside the education system, at least not in their current form. In addition, so many other systems would have to be introduced and parents should also play a role in this. BUT… personally I don't think it's a viable card, because you don't just change the mindset of an entire nation.
Improving education is not only time-consuming, but it is also very difficult for the government to influence.
'Research has shown that 25 percent of the learning result is determined by the quality of the education. In addition, the school can exert some influence on the student's attitude towards the school, which is responsible for 20 percent of differences in learning performance. The other factors cannot be influenced by the school (intelligence, home situation, motivation).'
Source: R. Standaert & F. Troch, Learning and teaching. Introduction to general didactics. Louvain/Amersfoort 1990.
@Dick,
I believe so, but as long as the 'no fail system' is maintained you can reform what you want, everything will remain the same. There is no incentive whatsoever for students to actually study, because they know that they will pass anyway, despite terrible grades. The idiotic statements of ministers are a direct result of an education system that is completely bankrupt.
That would be a good start, Cor. If the use of paying tea money is immediately abolished and combated, two steps have already been taken in the right direction.
To link idiotic statements by ministers to poor education is going a bit far. I'd rather stick to plain simple stupidity. I deny that the education system here is completely bankrupt. There are a lot of really bad schools, mediocre schools and certainly some pretty good ones. The “no fail system” sucks (at a mnikken school, where I taught, I always had to give the highest grades, I just left) but, as Dick already wrote, other factors are much more important, in which the level of education of the parents is most important. A child of well-educated parents at a bad school does on average better than a child of poorly educated parents at a good school. I think you should also take into account the historical development of the education system and that development is still going on. Thais also think the education system can be improved (much). Read:
Education& Knowledge in Thailand, The Quality Controversy, Alain Mournier et all., Silkworm Books, 2010
It is true that the development of the education system continues, but it is a backwards development. For example, the new minister of education wants to legalize tea money by calling it “donation”. The “no fail” system, was only introduced 15 years ago, supposedly to remove the stress from students (and in passing also the incentive for the student to open a textbook every now and then)
The free computer tablets for Prathom students are nothing more than a populist soundbite to win votes, as this idea has not been thought through, for example, by first training the teachers in the countryside on how to use those things. Many teachers in the Isan think that Facebook is a face cream. I can write a book about that "development" you think you are observing. a black book,
Hans, I have no doubt that the introduction of the 'no fail' system was done with the best of intentions (making learning stress-free). This also happened at a time when quite a few young Japanese people jumped from roofs because they could not cope with the pressure to perform of the cutthroat Japanese education system, where only the best university was good enough.
What the Thais did not realize at the time was that the work / study ethos in Japan was / is of a different nature than the Thai Sanuk version of studying. When I ask students to read two PAGES for the following week, sighing, moaning and gnashing of teeth is unheard of. There are still entire tribes in this country who believe that reading gives you a headache. So Thailand couldn't really afford to abolish the 'fail' system at all because the level of education was already so depressingly low. And, contrary to what Tino claims, things haven't gotten any better in the past ten years.
Cor,
Quote from the above-mentioned book (“Education etc”) page. 58 “In conclusion, Thailand's education has certainly made outstanding achievements in a relatively short time. Yet, it still has a long way to go to improve the quality of education across the board.” Page 45: “(Thailand) has the same problems of quality………despite impressive progress and an honorable ranking among countries at the same level of development……and compared with other counties with the same level of income….educational achievements seem to be more evenly distributed between the social classes….” (World Bank 2006).
The quality of Thai education is poor, but not worse than "similar" countries. And there is progress. We are both somewhat right. Keep working at it, you come across as a well-motivated teacher. Give them a whole book to read and forget about the sighs and moans. If they don't, give them a 0. You are the teacher. If the khroe jai protests, shrug your shoulders. You do run the risk of being sent away, like I have been for 2 years now. Transfer is a decision of all teachers together, you are not (alone) responsible for that.
My son who is now 12 did not do well in Pathom 1. I wanted him to stay put (he was a very early learner). That was not possible because of loss of face for school and parents. I still regret that.
Oh, Mr Geleijnse, I wouldn't take it too seriously, because the Thai government doesn't do that either. The original joke was not about Thai women and was only intended to be lighthearted. I heard this joke years ago from a Thai, who also didn't make a fuss about it. If the joke was meant to be derogatory, I certainly wouldn't have posted it on this blog.
If more people are disturbed by this joke, I hereby request the reaction to remove this joke.
thank you
I heard a very nice statement from Public Health Minister Wittaya Buranasiri on February 16. against in an article by Pichaya Svasti in response to an Animal Protection Act. He was against the law and he defended it with: This law is very new for Thailand and asked to think about it carefully. Truly a minister with vision.
He should have called better. T. what do you think??
there are some more of these laughable statements in the article by other ministers.
A little more about the monthly salary of teaching staff.
I myself also taught at a Thai school and then at special education
from somewhat older people who wanted to learn more about the English language for their profession
As far as I know, the basic salary (even in a private school) is BhtXNUMX.
My neighbors across the street are also in education. He is the manager of a school of two thousand students. He earns forty thousand Bht. His wife earned after much
study twenty thousand Bht. So together sixty thousand.
House not paid off. Two cars not paid off etc.
Everyone can think about it further, it is the middle class in Thailand.
Eventually they will get there when they get older, but the pension provisions
be bought off and then? Pay for the children's education? There will be a solution. They know everyone in education anyway. Whether they are still there when they are no longer needed is the question.
Cor.
I think that all those Dutch people who have a lot of criticism about education in Thailand themselves
don't realize or know what should be changed so much.
Have a girl of 8 years old and she is already learning English at her school.
Also in NL, where the education is so good, the system of "no fail" sometimes occurs.
See the HBO "Holland-in" where students also received the diploma without having the correct grades.
Yes, I read that yesterday much to my amazement too. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that higher education must also be accessible to Henk and Ingrid. At least, according to some politicians. Nothing wrong with that sixes culture…
The reason why the Inholland (not Holland in) HBO program gave diplomas as a gift, has to do with the way in which higher education is financed. A course is financed on the final result; the subsidy is granted on the basis of a diploma obtained and is based on a study duration of 4 years.
When students study for longer than 4 years, they cost the education money. If they leave school early from the second year (after the propaedeutic phase), the program does not receive a cent.
A separate arrangement applies for the first year. If students then drop out, the program will nevertheless receive a subsidy for 1,3 years.
Many programs therefore have a so-called BNS, a binding negative study advice. If a student does not obtain a certain number of points in the first year, he is not allowed to continue his education.
You cannot compare the fraud of Inholland (which has been put to an end) and the no-fail system in Thailand. Inholland was (hopefully) an incident, the no-fail system in Thailand is structural.
Cor verhoef,
They were not students from the sixes culture. On average a six for your exam
enough. No, it was some form of corruption. The HBO ”Holland-In”' received a sum of money for every student who obtained his diploma.
Just a question… how many students get at those private schools that you think
then so good are their degrees? I seem to remember you were talking about the
school in Bangkok the “'Patana-school”” where the entry fee is 120.000 baht and then
for 2 semesters 800.000 baht. Honestly, I don't even know what the word ”'Semisters
means.
Isn't it true that almost all parents make far too many demands for their offspring without them
wonder if their child has the right brain for that?
@jogchum,
I didn't claim that those students all had a six. What I mean is that NL has become a country in which the six is the norm. The grade for the average. The sufficient. That's all it takes, because imagine someone sticking out above ground level.
The difference with Thailand is that the management of Holland In has been called to account and that the case has made all the front pages. In Thailand, it would make headlines if a school came out as corruption-free
Furthermore, I was not talking about private schools, but about International Schools. These can generally only be paid by parents who have a diplomat's post, business people, expats with a hard-posting salary and other wealthy wealthy people. And you can count on good education being given there. Given the high school fees, the parents of the students who study there are not satisfied with substandard education.
I don't know if parents set too high standards. And what are “too high requirements”? Compared to who or what? No idea.
Cor verhoef,
Well, then answer my question how many of those students at those international schools don't make it to the finish line. The fact that the education there is good given the price tag does not mean that every student also has the right one
brain right?
I mean by making too high demands of very wealthy parents for their children often
ends in disappointment when it turns out that their pupil has to leave school early
without the desired diploma.
Incidentally, this occurs among all layers of the population.
Just like NL, Thailand also needs people, for example in care.
It is far preferable to start low and work your way up slowly than the other way around
@Jogchum,
I don't know where you got the information that I have copied all those data you demand from me - so it comes to me - on my palm. And even if I did know, do you really think I would reveal that data to YOU here? That's 1
Next point you mention. Too high demands from parents. Students who want to study at an international school must take an entrance exam. If those schools would accept anyone who pays, the level of that education would drastically decline. Don't you think so? So rich parents can still dream as hard of a career as a brain surgeon for their offspring, if their offspring don't make it then their offspring won't make it and they will never end up at that school.
Can you follow me a bit? I'm just asking.
I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but in my humble opinion you're not one to think beyond the box. The above what I wrote here all seems quite logical to me. Exponent of the sixes culture perhaps?
Have a nice day
Cor verhoef.
You wrote…in Thailand it would make headlines if a school came out as corruption-free.
Well, if I had to earn my living at such a corrupt school or other institution, I would immediately pack my bags.
After all, in the Netherlands we have the saying…..
”””'Those who handle tar are contaminated by tar”””'
So you're implying I'm corrupt?
Jogchum, don't worry. Given the feather-light intellectual baggage you carry with you, the chance that you will ever be accepted at any educational institution is quite small. Personally, I wouldn't even hire you to get me a sandwich across the street.
That's enough again. The discussion is hereby closed before it really gets out of hand. Also request Jogchum to limit itself to decent responses, also on topic.