Once upon a time…..
Yes, yes, that's how fairy tales usually start, also for many readers of this blog. Whether or not through the advice of good friends, or by chance, you end up in Thailand for the first time. Soon after arrival the fairy tale begins, you meet the woman of your dreams, young, beautiful, sweet, caring and she certainly doesn't mind your age and yet a bit too corpulent stature.
Wow….. am I lucky, “it's a dream come true”. Of course it doesn't stop at one evening, no, she stays with you for the rest of your stay in the land of smiles and also proves to be great company during the day. She takes you to nice sights and where necessary she acts as an interpreter. With tears in her eyes she says goodbye to you at Suvarnabhumi and of course the Knight in you promises that you will return soon.
Much faster than you would have ever imagined you are back in Thailand and the fairy tale continues, she wants to take you to her village to introduce her parents. Again that Wow….. that's okay, she really loves me. You have another great time and when you say goodbye you promise that she can come to the Netherlands / Belgium for 3 months soon.
But then the fairy tale soon ends, you are home and resume your normal routines. She is in the Netherlands with a language problem, does not know anyone except you, has to eat what she has never tasted before, is alone at home during the day with internet and booze. Yes, yes, then the problems will come, but of course they don't have to.
Not only does she have to adapt, so do you. Oops change, yes we'd like that, she's sweeter, understanding fuller and everything your first wife wasn't. But if you stay the same, then the turnips are already cooked, quite according to an old saying:
He drank a glass, took a pee, and everything remained as it was!
Result:
If you do what you did, you get what you had.
And that's exactly what you didn't want, the mores of this piece, be open to change yourself, approach things differently than before. Show understanding for her culture and everything that this entails, give her the space to fill this in for herself and give her the freedom to come and go as she pleases.
Take especially “accompanying picture” in eight, usually we want to but we don't. Remember:
The only constant in our existence is: Change !!!
Wishing you all a very long and happy life with your Thai partners.
Paul Schiphol
I think the best way of 'adjusting', in which the mentioned problems do not occur, is to move to Thailand.
It seems to me a Tantalus torment to have to spend your days as a Thai woman in the Netherlands.
Without family, without friends, without work, without the outdoors and with a language problem.
I sometimes explain that to ladies who dream of it. Well, they haven't thought of that yet.
If you have enough money and time to do fun things and go shopping in the Netherlands every day, things may be different, but in that case I would leave the Netherlands myself anyway.
Well, that's quite personal. My girlfriend loves it in the Netherlands and has no need for contact with other Thai people. She is having a great time at home and only occasionally watches Thai TV. She even feels freer in the Netherlands than in her own country (the yoke of the family and social environment). She is now back for three months, but with big tears and is already looking forward to mid-July when she can return to our little country.
Dear Khan Peter,
Totally agree that these adjustment issues are very personal, and am convinced that these fears are more about hearing stories than actual personal experience.
Moreover, it is not as easy as many think, every Thai woman who is married to a European and wants to settle in the husband's country is required to take a course to learn the language of the country before she is allowed to settle. .
Usually these women speak enough English to make themselves understood easily, otherwise a relationship with a farang man was usually not possible.
Certainly the man must invest a lot of time to help her in her new environment, eg familiarizing herself with our customs, the development of her new language, and must also be willing to understand her way of thinking.
Someone who is not prepared to invest this time and care, or who does not consider this important, should forget about coming to Europe with a Thai woman.
A woman who can really count on her husband's support has much better opportunities to earn money in Europe and her family, whom she usually also wants to help financially.
Moreover, her husband in Thailand would also be in trouble if he was not willing to learn the Thai language, or you have to settle for a life between tourists and expats.
Given the working conditions in Thailand, the Thai woman is largely dependent on her husband, who is also often called upon by her family for support.
The man usually has to take out sick insurance himself, and moreover if his wife is not satisfied with the meager sick care of the Thai government, this will also be his responsibility.
These are just a few examples of a long list of pros and cons that one should think through carefully and soberly.
With us it is also the opposite.
My wife prefers to stay in the Netherlands instead of moving permanently to Thailand.
The alternative will therefore probably be to hibernate.
Nice piece Paul and actually another eye-opener. Continuing to work (including changing) on a relationship is indeed a requirement for a healthy relationship.
@ Khun Peter: my wife also loves it when we go on holiday to NL (and before when I still lived in NL she also loved 4 or 6 weeks in NL) but what Frans points to is the permanent nature of the stay in NL from a Thai partner and the argument of Frans is also the reason why I decided to move to Thailand and not the other way around (my wife to NL), but of course that is personal.
You can smell a lotus flower, but you can't pick it. In other words – Don't move to Europe, because she's always cold there and doesn't feel at home. Exceptions!
Beautiful and well written, very realistic because it was like that for many. It is clear from the reaction of both Khun Peter, Frans and DKTH that the decision Thailand/Homeland is very personal. I do wonder that if you make the decision to choose Thailand as your home base, will you, as a farang, not end up in the same situation as when you choose the home country and this situation will apply to your partner? As a farang you are going to face the same problems: a completely different culture, completely different food, completely different climate, unless you live somewhere in a tourist attraction, no real friends and, last but not least, a completely unintelligible language. You can learn that language, just like your Thai partner should do in your home country, but this does not happen overnight. I myself have been living in Thailand for quite some time, then in a non-tourist area, not because I had to make a choice because of a Thai partner because I am single, so I know what I am writing about. So it is strictly a personal choice. Until now I have not known these problems and this because of the fact that I have filled my life on a well-filled basis. How many are there who, because of not being able to fill their time, here in Thailand drink themselves to death almost every day, either at home or in a bar somewhere? What is the reason for this? As the writer reports: only have internet and booze and nothing else and, yes, then the problems begin.
I believe that in the first place it comes down to discussing everything well and knowing what you are getting into, knowing how to fill in your active life in a decent way or making sure that, if you bring someone with you to your home country, this person can also use his time in a useful way. This applies both to the Thai ladies who come to live in Europe and to the European men who come to live in Thailand. For the Thai ladies, the problem of making the decision is usually different as, and I don't want to generalize, it is usually an escape from the "poor" life here to the richer, so attractive farang life. A second factor that can also cause quite a few problems is that it often concerns women who are much too young. Young ladies have different needs and expectations. Imagine that as a young man you were sentenced to daily finger twisting. Unless you're an idiot you might enjoy it, otherwise it's hell.
Lung addie
There is also a booklet that can help you with the changes in your life together with a Thai partner: Thai Fever. Also see http://www.thailandfever.com.
By the way, one of the authors is the same person who also developed the “Thai Phrase” app, which was recently mentioned in one of the posts.
Young, beautiful, sweet, caring, the latter is the problem. Women are moeiallen (“moei” is an old Dutch word for aunt; not only mothers are moeiallen). It's not just that they meddle in everything, but the meddling is what you can't get rid of for life. That life sentence - you are (quite a lot) older than she - humanly speaking is certain. As well as getting fatter and unhealthy. The former (getting fatter) is a symptom of the latter. Women do not specifically understand what it is like to eat healthy and what you should do and not do to stay as healthy as possible.
Then: what can you do with a woman? Yes, of course: always have one at hand (and in bed), you can do something with it. And to talk to and especially to be talked to, you can do that with it. But what level is that? From house, garden and kitchen level. Has any man (or his wife) ever become famous for the level of her conversation in front of that man? Does a man who is married ever write even a piece - a piece of reality description - like this. Well, very secretly at the most.
As far as the content of the story is concerned, I completely agree. The starting point is (and it should be) that you can never expect that a partner will change because you want it to. Living together is “sacrificing” yourself for and adapting to the other, even though it can be difficult. If that happens mutually, then you don't need two pillows for two cultures.
You also have to do that with a Dutch/Belgian woman. Only she doesn't have the language problem, but she will immediately be a lot older. In addition, she knows about the same amount of law and culture, which equals additional problems in the relationship. I agree that as a 60-year-old you should not bring a 25-year-old woman to your home country, but actually… you can never be sure. Adjustment, patience and understanding are important for both partners for a successful relationship. And whether you go to Thailand or your dear friend emigrates here is irrelevant.
Hello Wim,
How cinical is your view of women. What a record of relational disappointments you must have experienced. But there is hope, even if you're not gay (you'll never be like that, you are) a good (non-sexual) friendship with a guy can be intense and very satisfying. So if you're really fed up with women, try is n's a man. I wish you a lasting intense relationship with anyone or anything, it gives depth and satisfaction, which no casual flirtation can match.
Thanks for your comment,
Paul
I have, say and write - now around half a century ago - experienced a single "relational disappointment" and I have looked around me. There was not a single love - to begin with my parents - that contributed to the development of the man, nor that of the woman. Love is not unique and is not eternal and is not of all-important value. The person himself is, at least if he sees the opportunity to (continue to) develop, but many people do not have the drive to do so and are only locked in their marriage. I shouldn't make friendships that are meant to be eternal. I've had friends with a development whose versatility surpassed mine (from whom I could learn something, but vice versa) and yet the contact ended (not apart from the fact that they were strong personalities). That was a pity, but not a disaster as it would have been if it meant breaking up a marriage or sacrificing your personality to keep it. (By the way, I still find it a bit strange that men can be married to each other these days, but that aside).
In short: there is more to life than just marriage with his house, tree, animal, with death in the pot, or passing under your partner in the feather shoot.
Or you find a Thai lady who can speak English well. You yourself live in an urban area in NL and people speak a nice word of English on the street. Immediately puts her in touch with many local Thai. Immediately teaches her to use public transport and she is not at home in NL for 3 months. Viola.
You preferably don't bring her into contact with many local Thai. Trust me. A few friends will suffice. They will almost certainly become best friends. When they have contact with many Thais, it is too often about showing off what they have or have not received from their husbands. Then they start comparing and where they used to be happy with, for example, EUR 400 of their own pocket money per month, that is soon pushed to the heights by those few of the group who hooked up with a wealthy businessman. In the long run, it becomes unaffordable for a normal-earning citizen on a weekday to keep the love burning.
It is also better to help her get her own job, even if it is part-time, for example. They get to know colleagues, become familiar with language and culture from experience and also have a considerable pocket money to send home. You live in the Netherlands/Belgium together with your income and she decides about hers herself. If she really loves you, she won't draw any conclusions from this that she doesn't actually need you and can close the door behind her. And if she does, then the love wasn't big enough and you're better off without her...
Fairytales are everywhere. Even if you are going to live together in the Netherlands. Cultural differences dissolve themselves when there is love between 2 people. So all those stories about how or that. All nonsense. Give and take, that's it in every culture. You can write everything down, but you can't give and take from a book. And we can all write life stories. But there is only 1 thing. Once more. Give and take.
Malee, it's not all nonsense that is written. Cultural differences do not resolve themselves, I know from my own experience. There are things that can annoy you so much about your partner that it leads to a breakup. As an example I take “East Indian deafness”. A saying from the colonial days of Indonesia that is apparently widespread in SE Asia. You ask something and you just don't get an answer or it is done as if nothing was asked or ...... you name it. I can be annoyed by that. That is a cultural difference that I do not have with the Dutch and Europeans. Then it is important that this is discussed, because it will not solve itself. My wife had a hand in that too. Until I told her I can't live like this. After that it went much better.