Belgian tax authorities: Other income than your Belgian pension?
Questioner: Roland
I was born Belgian and retired. My Thai – Belgian husband dual nationality, no profession in Thailand. Received a letter from the BE tax authorities I quote: Do you or your spouse have any income other than your Belgian pension? Please prove this by means of a tax bill from Thailand for income 2020. Or in cases of no income, via a tax residence certificate. You can obtain this certificate from the Thai tax authorities.
Answered that we both have a BE identity card and are registered at the Be Embassy and that as Belgians we are not allowed to work in Thailand (Thai law). Transferred together with scan of BE identity cards and registration BE Embassy. Went to the Amphur there received a phone call from the Thai tax authorities and called. Thailand only issues an income certificate if you have income. No income no certificate possible.
Has anyone already experienced the same? Help welcome!
Response: Lung Addy
You are apparently not the only one who has received such a letter, even though it has been a while. There Your spouse? has Belgian and Thai nationality, is she/he allowed? do work in Thailand, nothing prevents him/her(?) that he/she(/) is and will remain Thai(se) after all? You will have to prove one way or another that he/she(?} does not work in Thailand and has no income. However, the letter that the other people I know received was about him:
not sent to the wife asking that the husband has no income in Thailand. That's what they would ask you in the first place. Isn't it the other way around that YOU have received a letter from the Belgian tax authorities asking if your SPOUSE has no income and proof of this???
-Unless you are a Belgian retired woman and married to a Thai man.
– Unless you are married to a man as a man, a marriage that is not accepted in Thailand. You will therefore also not be able to get proof of marriage in Thailand, which is often requested in case of dependents of the partner and therefore receive a family pension.
Your marital status is completely unclear to me.
You can try to go to a large tax office and try to speak to the superior there. Most of the servants have never experienced anything like this (and neither have I) and so are ignorant about it.
That you cannot get proof in Thailand that you have no income and therefore do not have to pay taxes, my knowledge of the Thai administration is not broad enough for that.
Perhaps there are other readers who have knowledge of this?
Editors: Do you have a question for Lung Addy? Use it contact form..
As far as I understand your letter, you (as married couples) file a joint tax return.
Since you have received a letter “I presume” that there is 'somewhere' and now I express myself cautiously 'a dispute.
ps I write suppose but read 'definitely'
Consequently, the Fod Fin that manages your file can and will request additional information in order to adjust the 'dispute'.
Since you are not a resident of the Netherlands, you will (in almost all cases) be asked to demonstrate that you or your spouse have no income in this case Thailand.
a. You must demonstrate this in a certain time (date will probably be on the letter from the Fod Fin)
If you don't do this, the Fod Fin will take “their calculations” to be true !!! and of course that is the least favorable for you
b Demonstrating this is not easy ( but try my best )
– The document you need calls a ChorMor in Thai
– This is available in your amphoe where not only you and your wife must be present, but also
witnesses (usually that is the phuab job) who must also declare (and sign documents) that you have no income
(even think but not sure you need to make an appointment for this)
– Do not mop up all Thai authorities such as the tax authorities, you waste time and they cannot help you
– that document is entirely in Thai (with the garuda seal)
– this must of course be translated and legalized in (normally in 1 of the three national languages but they also accept the English translation legalized of course)
– Given the limited time to prepare the document, translate and legalize it, I also advise you to scan the document if you have it and send it to the Fod Fin (email address is on the reverse of your tax bill)
Can't send an example of a ChorMor as I don't have your details, so you'll have to make do with this little explanation.
Regards
Dear Matta,
everything you write is completely in line with reality.
The way of obtaining that ChorMor is completely unknown to me but, in my humble opinion, should be possible.
The way you indicate, with the ampheu, is a possible solution. The big problem, especially here in Thailand, is that something they've never had to deal with is treated very reluctantly. Something they don't know doesn't exist for them and finding someone willing to stick their neck out and find out.....??? Great fear is to make a mistake… so easier to say: MOW MIE, then they are done with it.
Creating the possibility to declare a small tax-free income in Thailand by the partner, and therefore to have a Thai tax file, is also a solution that should be considered. But this will then refer to the income 2022 and tax year 2023…. which will be a bit late for this to be used now for 2020, as indicated in Roland's writing, for the 2020 income question.
I'm afraid this procedure will have to be repeated every year.
Many greetings and thanks for the good information.
Lung addie.
As Lung Addy points out, a Thai is allowed to work. Have your partner declare that 9234 baht has been earned from the sale of goods (everything that is income must be declared as well as tips). Something that the central government also welcomes so that people become known in the tax system. Due to many deductions, there is ultimately a zero tax with the requested piece of paper as proof of your problem.
For the Dutch, things may be slightly different with a recent change in the transfer of data by TH to countries with tax treaties. Lammert knows a lot more about that, I think.
I would like to say a special thank you to everyone who commented. : Matta
i live in doisaket near chiang mai my email is. : [email protected] .
my phone is +66(0)84 32 987 25 if you have any information regarding this case, it is still welcome
Coming to live in Thailand in 2018, this year I have to declare taxes for 6 months in Belgium and 6 months in Thailand.
Year after corona year and not received from the tax authorities or not seen hence the writing.
Thank you for the assistance .
Damn Roland
Dear Roland,
Your tax file seems to be a major disaster or you are confusing many things:
the doubt which you sow: husband or wife? (man or woman)
Coming to live in Thailand in '2018', 'this' year must declare tax 6 months Belgium and 6 months Thailand.
'This' year or 'that' year … THIS refers to NOW and THAT refers to THEN.
For the income year 2018 declaration, i.e. the year of deregistration, assessment year 2019, it is normal that you have to state your income in proportion to the number of months in Belgium and the number of months you lived in Thailand.
"Year after" what do you mean by that? 2019-2020??? then add at least a year then there is no doubt.
Year later: the fact that you have not received anything has NOTHING to do with Corona. You should know that if you do not receive a tax return for a certain year, you MUST REQUEST IT YOURSELF.
I give you the good advice: read the file 'UNSUBSCRIBE FOR BELGIANS', it is not for nothing and was not written for nothing, on the TB and you will become a lot wiser.
You do nothing but sow doubts by asking and responding in this way.
If you want a correct answer, where the people who want or can help, don't have to make a lot of assumptions first, then be correct and clear in your writing.
Dear Roland,
I have looked at this case in more detail and must come to the conclusion that there are doubts with the tax authorities about the income of your partner, an income that is added to your family income and whether or not you are entitled to tax relief. In the other files that I saw, this usually concerned a married Belgian with a foreign partner who lives abroad. In most cases, this involved a partner who was of an age at which it 'may' be assumed that he is still suitable for the labor market. The tax authorities have no insight whatsoever into the potential income of this partner abroad, certainly not in Thailand. Of course, the embassy does not have this either.
The big problem that can or will arise is: if you do not provide proof of no additional income:
– the pension service will levy a withholding tax if you are married because they only rely on the national register and you are listed there as married. This withholding tax is lower than if you are single, depending on your pension that is a +/- 200Eu/m difference.
– the tax authorities will, in case of doubt regarding the income, qualify you as 'NOT SINGLE'. However, this term, which is in fact not common, leaves the door open between different situations. But the big disadvantage for you is that you will be taxed as a single person. This could result in a final bill of between 2000 and 3000Eu on an annual basis. So be prepared for this.
The legislator has provided the opportunity for citizens to object to the assessment within a specific period. However, this objection must be based on official evidence and that is, in your case, not having additional family income. So you have to get there one way or another.
I have discussed this case with my tax-legal advisor in Belgium via a video call, and he also believes that this is indeed the case.
If, in the worst case scenario, you really cannot get any proof of non-income from your partner, you can only:
– initiate a legal procedure, the success of which cannot be guaranteed
– ask the pension service to tax you on the basis of singleness in order to avoid a heavy final assessment. This will mean a loss of income,
– leave the situation as it is and bite the bullet every year.
greetings and good luck,
lung addie.
I'm not going to elaborate on this issue. Just add that obtaining the necessary documents is less of a priority, but the time to arrange this and that you get from the government services is more important.
Personally, I've always had a hard time with that. For example, you get 1 month to pay, but to get something back you have to wait 10 months or more.
You get 1 month to prove something but even they have 2 or 1 months to respond example you have 2 month to return your signed life certificate to the pension service but to change the status it now takes XNUMX months or longer.
I would like to take the opportunity to say the following. A “Belgian” is not as social as other nationalities. Given the size of the country, we do not live in each other's neighborhood. There are places in Hua Hin or Pattaya where more Belgians live and where there are meetings, but that is more the exception than the rule.
A forum such as this one can provide a solution, but comments can be made. Do you know all the details about the question someone is asking?
The fact that there is no (and I emphasize no) conformity in Thailand Here in the north it is 20 km further it is sister and if you go south it is already completely different.
On some questions, whether on this or another platform, one can in good conscience choose the right one
provide information and answers were it not for the fact that almost in all cases one is confronted with what I call Thai logic (and you can translate this, among other things, each does what it pleases and interprets its own version of regulations and laws)
Decision :
At least try to stay in line with the necessary laws and regulations, also from Belgium !!
Example ensures that you and your Thai wife have a valid and activated e-id card
Make sure you know something or what about IT (computer capabilities) that you know where to look who to contact, etc.
Make sure your lady knows something about it and, if necessary, write it down on paper if there is something she can and should contact and who can or would like to help her if something happens to you so that she knows something and how to respond. I know it's all far from my bed, what could happen to us? Until of course the moment and then it's who could have thought this...
I personally find this very bad to write but don't count on anyone else the opposite is also true someone else doesn't count on you either (and that is unfortunately due to our mentality)
I think it's fantastic that Khun Lung has made a script for what to do in the event of death. But how many Thai wives can read Dutch well how many Thai wives know that Khun Lung has gone to such great lengths to draw it up How many even know how to use a computer and turn off and where to find those documents.
No one should now panic and frighten madam with computer lessons, but one should think carefully and decide for oneself what if……or am I okay with….
And please if you have a question don't ask it here on the forum but at least to a competent authority but don't wait with it.
thanks to
How lucky we are to have people like Matta and Lung Addie here!
These people are always ready to help us where possible. Their thorough knowledge of files has already helped many people out of need.
Thanks again for your efforts along this road!
Dear Matta,
I completely agree with everything you write. But many problems can be solved with good preparation. Putting something right is not easy and that does not only apply to Belgium.
Then there is also the problem that, with a question, the back of the tongue is never shown, you just have to guess and reason. For example, I have not yet received any response from the questioner regarding the nature of his marriage. He does give a phone number but if he thinks I should call HIM to solve HIS problem and give advice then he is wrong.
I gave him advice and if this is not enough then HE can contact me further. I have the impression that making a journey of 10.000 km is no problem for many people, but making a trip to Bangkok is too much.
I do wonder why he didn't register with: mymifin and mypension. Then you can have direct contact with the relevant services. All you need is an E-ID and card reader and everyone has them now.
In the worst case, he will therefore have to live with the assessment as a single person and that will cost him 200-250Eu/m as long as he cannot provide proof of his partner's non-income. I do know one thing: if I needed it I would have it, even if I have to go to Bangkok for it, but I will have it. Where there is a will there is a way.
I would like to give a short response, praise for the responses. But you cannot tell your entire life story in public, you limit yourself to the minimum. You tell what is necessary You do not write everything about your financial affairs, your health, your limitations, etc...
The solution proposed by Matta is followed.
Good that there are people who help, where there are limitations with others. I have also done this with a friend with 2 cerebral thrombosis in a year.
Help others where you can with your own limitations (illnesses, financial, etc.)