Where are you going? Have you eaten yet?
In a previous article I discussed the concept of 'thainess', the Thai Identity. I already pointed out that this identity does not always include the ancient Thai heritage, but is often constructed, made with a certain purpose. I now want to show that to the well-known Thai greeting 'sawatdee'.
Those who are lucky enough to live in or visit rural Thailand know that the most common greeting is not 'sawatdee' but ไปใหน 'pai nai?' Where are you going? or ไปใหนมา 'pai nai maa? Where are you going from where coming from? and กินข้าวหรือยัง'kin khaaw reu jang?' (see illustration) Have you eaten yet? These are the real original Thai greetings.
King Rama V launched a civilization offensive
From the beginning of the last century and especially since the thirties, Thailand had to westernize. It started with the famous king Rama V (Chulalongkorn) who traveled a lot, first to India and the Dutch East Indies and later to Europe. The contrasts he saw between the 'civilized' West and his own still 'barbaric' Siam hurt him.
Also to keep the colonial powers at bay, he launched a civilizing offensive, which was continued under the subsequent kings and reached its climax during the ultra-nationalist reign of Field Marshal Luang Plaek Phibunsongkraam (hereinafter Phibun, he disliked the name Plaek, which means 'strange', about 1939-1957).
Many elements of civilized Western culture were imposed on the Thais, dress codes (men and women often walked around bare-chested), trousers, skirts and headgear were made mandatory and chewing betel was prohibited. Eventually, many elements of this imported culture would be glorified as thainess, the ancient Thai identity.
In 1943, 'sawatdee' became the official Thai greeting
Part of this Westernization was the use of language. It is the period in which many new Thai words were invented. According to legend, it was professor Phraya Uppakit who first introduced the greeting 'sawatdee' at Chulalongkorn University where it quickly spread across the campus and beyond.
But it was Phibun who made 'sawatdee' the 'official' Thai greeting in 1943, eight months after a simplification of the Thai script. On January 27, 1943, the Propaganda Department announced the following:
His Excellency the Prime Minister has considered the matter at hand and has come to the conclusion that in order to promote our own honor and the honor of the Thai people in a way that will promote the praise of the Thai people as a civilized people and also because the state of our mind there must be a modern, new greeting, and has therefore decreed the following. All officials should greet each other with 'sawatdee' in the morning so that we can treat each other as friends and use only promising words. In addition, we ask all civil servants to use this greeting in their households as well.
'Sawatdee' is used almost exclusively in high society
This is how the greeting 'sawatdee' started. I still find this greeting somewhat awkward in everyday life, it is used almost exclusively in the 'high society', or what passes for it, on formal occasions, and by expats who think it is the pinnacle of Thai courtesy because that's what the travel guides and language books have us believe.
In 2008, the Commission on National Identity launched a campaign to replace the English "hello" with "sawatdee" in phone calls, which was a flop. It is ironic that such a new greeting as 'sawatdee', born of an idea of westernization of Thai culture, has now become an integral part of the ancient thainess, the Thai identity, is lofty.
The word 'sawatdee' comes from Sanskrit
'Sawatdee' is not a Thai word but comes from Sanskrit (the ending -dee-, resembles the Thai word for 'good' but is not). It is an adaptation of the Sanskrit word 'svasti' which means 'blessing' or 'well-being' and has the root in common with the word 'svastika', the swastika, the ancient Hindu symbol for 'auspicious, auspicious favour'. Maybe it's a coincidence that Phibun was an admirer of Italian, German and Japanese fascism, but maybe not.
In addition to 'sawatdee', other words were invented such as 'aroensawat' (compare 'Wat Aroen', the Temple of Dawn), good morning and 'ratreesawat', good night, but these can only be found in literature, hardly anyone knows them more. Incidentally, 'sawatdee' is often shortened to 'watdee' (see illustration).
If you greet a Thai in an informal situation, especially in the countryside, say 'kin khaaw reu jang' (middle, falling, rising, middle tone), Have you eaten yet? or 'pai nai ma' (middle, rising, midtone), Where are you going having come from? That sounds so hot.
For 'thainess' see the article www.thailandblog.nl/background/ik-ben-een-thai/
Thanks for this bit of culture/history lesson. I like it so much when people ask if you have eaten yet. Also grappg that Thai ask this in English. Yes, also annoying tuktuk drivers, but if you just go for a walk through villages and suburbs, I have also been asked several times (a “pai nai” “where you go? or both). Although it often remains with a friendly smile / nod. They are curious when a crazy / stray farang (alone) walks through the streets.
Here in the Isaan paj naj is not used much only by barmaids and bums, here people say krapong or krapon, I don't know what it means.
it's not khap khun anyway.
I myself also have something like what are you interfering with, but above all what do you know about it??
Khin Kao is used here before I eat, or khao nohn before I go to sleep.
I live near Mancha Khiri and everyone here uses pai nai.
In our village they say pai sai?
i usually say pai talaat and then they laugh
Here in Isaan paj naj is not used much only by barmaids and vagabonds, here people say krapong or krapon, which means I am, loosely translated: me too.
it's not khap khun anyway.
I myself also have something like what are you interfering with, but above all what do you know about it??
Khin Kao is used here before I eat, or khao nohn before I go to sleep.
They never actually say the English hello to the thora juice/mobuy - but the Thai translation, or "allo" - sounds more French. Then comes the inevitable question of “where are you now”.
In BKK you usually hear: yang may ma-mee rot thit. In other words: not yet arrived, there is a traffic jam/file.
I just finished a 2 day bus trip with 5 Thai running friends. One of them has his own minivans that we were with and he told what he found strange habits of the foreigners and other stories.
For example, he found it strange that the foreigner always says Good Night and Good morning when they go to sleep or wake up. The Thai says nothing, but disappears and reappears without saying anything.
Incidentally, he found the word sleep very strange. Two very drunk Dutch people whom he had transported from Nongkhai to Bangkok had asked to sleep in Korat. He could pronounce the word prefect. The fellow passengers found it even crazier that they wanted to go to a hotel on the way, while there were only 6 very spacious sitting / sleeping seats in the very luxurious minibus. You sleep on the road, why also pay for a hotel? They doubled over in laughter.
Dear Hans,
Sawatdee khrap/kha always creates a certain distance, kind of like 'How do you do? in English. It's really not that 'sawatdee' is the established greeting for all walks of life, except in formal situations. Example: you take a fresh morning walk through the rice fields and meet a strange farmer. You can say 'sawatdee', he answers the same and then everyone goes his own way. You can very well say pai nai Where are you going? That is warm and friendly and invites you to a short chat. And that's the problem.
A general comment. It is my experience that Thai partners always teach their lover the official words, never the friendly, sweet words, let alone swearing or swear words, which are also widely used in Thailand. But your loved one will deny that too. Ask her what "damn" and "shit" are in Thai. They also exist in Thai, and if someone hits their thumb with a hammer, you will hear that too.
Ruud,
Of course you say sàwàtdie khráp in all formal situations and to people you just met. But if you still only say sàwàtdie to your neighbor who you've known for 10 years, that's not fun. In the Netherlands you don't always say to people you know well 'how are you doing, Mr Jansen?', maybe just for fun. You say: 'how are you, Piet? Washing your car again?' 'Bad weather today, say!' "Hey, you look good today, dude!" etc.
And I never understand why you can't learn Thai swear words. Don't you know any Dutch or English swear words? Do you think the Thais never call each other names? Even Prayut sometimes uses swear words like 'âi hàa' and khîe khâa in his press conferences and speeches. Suthep was also very good at it like ie ngôo, which means 'stupid bitch'. Guess who that hit.
If you've known your neighbor for 10 years, you've been in Thailand long enough to know the best way to greet them.
Before that, it's safest to limit yourself to a formal greeting.
By the way, the way of greeting depends not only on the person, but also on the situation.
To people I meet every day I usually just say sawatdee or sawatdee khrap, without wai.
"Pai nai maa" is usually inappropriate and I'm afraid that "kin kwaaw leew ruu yang" will be taken as an invitation to dinner.
To friends who have moved to the city, I will say sawatdee khrap and make a wai when I meet them.
However, if they stay nearby and I come across them more often, it will be limited to sawatdee without wai.
At the village chief I usually wave when I walk by and he is sitting alone.
Sometimes he calls for a chat.
Is he sitting outside with his family, I walk over and then I greet the family with sawatdee.
Is he with third parties, I say sawatdee and also make a wai.
On the other hand, the village head also often shakes hands.
I always greet the abbot formally with sawatdee khrap and a wai
The answer is then sawatdee or hello, hello.
What I counter with greetings is the “Hi” of the youth.
That's what they teach the youth at school. (It's also in the school books)
I tell them that this is not a polite form of greeting towards an older man.
Nice for your friends or your parents, but not for others.
โง่ (ngôo) means stupid by the way.
I have been traveling to Thailand for decades, and have been living here for several years now, with a Thai partner. When we are in hometown I hear the family members talking to each other early in the morning, more shouting from one house to another. When I ask my partner “what are they talking about?” Then the answer is: what are you eating today? That's Thai!
They are courtesies for talking, not saying anything…
Even when I leave my apartment, security or other Thai acquaintances say “where you go?” Not that they're interested in where I'm going, but they just want to be polite and friendly and show some interest. Except for Sa waa de khrap, those are the simple forms of courtesy.
Pai hnai, kin khaaw lew hmai and sabai dee hmai are informal greetings, without stopping each other.
More like a confirmation that you have been seen and that you are known/accepted.
Sometimes touching you is also part of that.
Pai sai is the local dialect in Isan and said to me daily by a little boy who is slightly higher than my knee.
Sawatdee is a bit more formal and is used more when you also stop to talk.
The official greeting for tourists in tourist resorts is He You!!
Nice Tino how you keep analyzing the Thai language. Your translation of "pai nai maa" is very literal and therefore comes across as a bit strange. I would rather translate it as “where have you been”. I think "Kin or Thaan khaauw rue yang" is the most commonly used form of informal greeting.
That word maa makes that go a thing of the past, because you are on your way back.
So pai nai becomes "where are you going?"
Maa transforms this into “where did you go”/ “where have you been.”
When I walk from home, I always ask “pai nai”.
When I walk in the direction of my house, people always ask “pai nai maa”.
The word “maa” is a bit confusing because it is often used with the word “leew”.
I wondered if that “maa……leew” could be linked to a form of coming back.
But even if someone has eaten at home, one can say “phom kin khaaw maa leew”, or “phom kin khaaw leew”.
It is possible that in the past that “maa” was linked to coming back, but apparently not nowadays.
To other Ruud: I really only know the expression maa lew, if a movement has also taken place.
Maa means to come.
When I AM at someone's house and ask if he has finished eating yet, I never got an answer kin khaaw maa lew.
It is always kin leew or kin khaaw leew and never kin MAA leew.
However, if I am at someone's door, it can turn into kin maa leew.
Even if he has eaten at home.
But eating at home may have happened in a different place than I am at that moment and the speaker has come to me.
Roughly translated: I ate inside and then I walked to your door here.
Anyway, that's my interpretation and maybe the Thai language is more subtle,… or sloppy.
And something Tino. Sawatdee Khrap or Wadee khrap or just Wadee, wadee (2x in quick succession) is less formal in my opinion that you say.
“Ratreeswat nolafandee” I once learned from a barmaid, for when we really went to sleep. Apparently a literary person. Everyone understands anyway.
Dear Frans, it must have been very late when you went to sleep, and maybe that's why you didn't hear the correct pronunciation, which is why you wrote it that way. It is quite possible that many know what you mean, but it would be better to say it like this, Ratriesawat Noonlap fandee which roughly translates as, Good night sleep and dream well.
It is indeed from a phonetic memory that was at the end of its Latin. Thanks for the correction and I'll think about it later.
Sawatdee is regularly said to me.
But only when meeting, so if someone comes to me, or I to someone else.
The other expressions are used when you are just walking by.
The children of primary school age often shouted "Good Morning" when they saw me. (from the Good Morning Teacher how are you tune at school)
Both in the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening.
The teacher probably doesn't know any better.
I have explained to them the meaning of Morning a few times and now some children are also starting to shout Good Afternoon.
Apparently that knowledge is contagious, because there are more of them than to whom I have explained it.
Well, I don't know where you live then. I lived in Bangkok for 4 years and now in Chiang Mai for 2,5 years, but here everyone really greets each other with Sawasdee. Also my Thai friends among themselves
Indeed, Nicole my wife is Thai and I think it's nice that we suddenly belong to the 'higher circles'…
Is that correct if you live in the countryside, and you are on the way, you are greeted with a "Pai nai"? For example, if someone knows that you are already on your way home, does this greeting change to "Pai nai maa"? with both variants being more about the greeting, and much less about knowing exactly where you're going, or where you've been. Only when you visit someone, and you have already arrived at his house or the agreed meeting point, for example, is a Sawasdee applied.
Nowadays you no longer have to impose Western “civilization” in Thailand. It is widely welcomed in Thailand. Coca Cola, KFC, Mac Donalds, bowling centers, cinemas, not to mention the entire digital rimram and mass communication. Sarongs everywhere have been replaced by unimaginative jeans. International outfit. Plastic everywhere Tin everywhere. And in the morning: Good morning. Evening Good night. I'm not participating. In Thailand I just go to bed without telling anyone.
One has to be very careful not to regard the usual greeting of the Isan countryside as the Thai standard, because they are not. And never use these greetings in Central Thailand and certainly never in Bangkok Metropolis, because then you will be immediately classed as a farmer, and you will no longer be considered well-educated.
Additional tip.
In Central Thailand, and Bangkok only speak the standard language and certainly not Isan dialect.
The Khin Khao reuh yang doesn't surprise me in the least. When you see what the average Thai eats every day, one wonders why they don't burst with a huge bang like in the French movie "La Grande Bouffe" At the Pai nai mar? people will no doubt wonder in which restaurant you ate. At Pai nai? Do people think: Where are you going to eat? May I accompany you?
Dear Butcher Shop,
Thank you for your interesting, thoughtful and informative comments. That is much appreciated. That way we learn something.
In general, I don't think you should go overboard with those few words that you know as an average holidaymaker.
Sometimes I see an American walk into the bar, shout 'sawatdee krap' very loudly, with an emphasis on the r and his p in crab, and then shout in the most American way: Two beers please! As if he has been celebrating Ramadan for three weeks.
No one is impressed by that. And although I hate French and French: C'est le ton qui fait la musique.
I'm just going to ask in the bar tomorrow what they think when I ask where they're from and where they're going.
Tino Kuis, I absolutely do not want to correct you. If you think so, my apologies. It is true that every Thai, including the neighbors, who come to my house or whom I meet on the street always greet me with, Sawatdee and no one has ever asked me “Pai Nai?”. Sometimes I do it myself but then the person I say it to gets slightly annoyed.
Theo,
I really appreciate it when people correct or supplement me. You can see from the reactions here that it is different everywhere and between different people. Of course I always say to strangers, the elderly and to 'posh' people 'sawatdie tight'. To close acquaintances, friends, family etc 'pai nai. That's warmer, equivalent to our 'hey, dude, where are you going?' Or 'Roon, na' 'Hot, say!' etc.
Here in the South it is also rare to greet each other with a “paai naai” or a “kin khaaw leaaw… Sawaddee Khap followed by a “sabaai dee maai” is common here. I sometimes hear it, but then it's only old people who say hello.
When getting up and going to sleep, no wish is usually expressed…. they are there in the morning and in the evening they suddenly disappear. Used to seem strange and rude to me, not anymore, but I myself always say when I go to sleep and wish good morning when I get up, at least if I'm not the first to wake up, which I usually am.
In Chiang Mai my experience is similar to Tino's. As a greeting I rarely hear sawatdii, but often pai nai/ pai nai maa and also kin kaaw ruu yang. One does not expect an extensive answer, but it can be an opening for a chat.
If it is visible that I come from the market or have been to the 7-11, suu arai is also used as a greeting, what have you bought? , said. Even then a short reaction is sufficient.
Think it all depends somewhat on what is customary in that region, and especially how well or superficially you know that person.
I think Tino just wanted to make it clear that there is more than the rather cool “Sawatdee” to greet someone.
Exactly…….
What is the 'standard' answer to the questions 'Where are you going?' Have you eaten yet.?
There is no standard answer, because in themselves they are not questions to which people actually want an answer.
It is more something to greet each other and possibly start a conversation.
Questions are asked more out of courtesy, because it shows interest in what the person is doing, going to do or has done.
(Of course you can also call it curiosity)
Either you start a conversation with the person who asks you that question, but if you don't feel like it, or you don't have time, you can also just say where you are going. Doesn't have to be your real end goal if you don't want it to be. Can also be very general like “I am going to the bus, market etc…. Do you come from food or are you going to eat somewhere, you can of course also say that.
It is actually very simple: Pai Nai Ma or in short Pai Nai you say to close friends and acquaintances or neighbors when you meet each other, Sawasdee Krap/Ka followed by a Wai you say to strangers or people with a "higher" status.
You only say Kin Khao Leaw to good friends and acquaintances or neighbors never to strangers or people with a "higher" status.
They are forms of courtesy that don't so much ask for an answer, you can tell the truth or just give a vague answer along the lines of over there (pai ti noon or pai noon or ti noon for short) or hence (ma ti noon) and that is accompanied by a nod of the head or a vague hand gesture.
The answer to Kin Khao Leaw (Reuh Yang) is Kin Leaw (already eaten) or Kin Yang or just Yang (not eaten yet)
Do your best, Linda
Just an addition about Kin Khao Leaw (Reuh Yang) you only say this in the morning, between noon and in the evening around meal times, now I know that the Thais (can) eat all day long, but it is a convention to to do that on these parts of the day and not during the whole day. But there is an exception, because you can say this or you will be told when you or someone is eating outside the 'normal' meal times. It's actually a disguised invitation to join us for dinner.
Eat them, bye Linda
Then we also have Sabai Dee Mai (polite to good friends) or Sabai Dee Mai Krap/Ka (more polite to acquaintances or neighbours) or Sabai Dee Mai Na Krap/Ka (the most polite) you only say that to friends, acquaintances you haven't seen for a while, so not to strangers and or people with a 'higher' status
Now I think I finally understand why one of the chambermaids always asks: 'Where you go?'