A new consular policy memorandum in the Netherlands
A few days ago there was an article on this blog announcing that the Dutch government is working on a consular policy memorandum, in which the consular policy for the coming years is set out. In a so-called consultation, interested parties can put forward ideas, advice, and comments.
Good idea?
My first thought was: a good idea to involve Dutch citizens abroad in this unique way in the development of that policy document. But soon my enthusiasm disappeared, because I don't like the way the consultation takes place. Of course, in that stronghold of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which once had the name “Monkey Rock”, one finds that 6000 employees from high to low are quite capable of drawing up that policy document without your and my help.
Democratic touch
I also found out that such a consultation is not unique at all, because they are regularly published in several areas. In my opinion, therefore, a consultation is nothing more than to give a democratic touch to the decision-making process, with which nothing else is done. Yes, the results of this consultation will be 'included' in the further development of consular policy and the improvement of consular services. I have no illusions that even one proposal will be adopted from outside and if that happens against expectations, then the submitter absolutely deserves a knighthood.
Objections
But what then is the essential objection? Well, in the first place it is the announcement of this consultation. It is on the website and on Facebook, but is that enough to reach all Dutch people all over the world? I doubt it. Mind you, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website indicates that more than 1 million Dutch people live abroad. The distribution should have been better and, moreover, the deadline could have been a bit later
Secondly, the question is, in my opinion, much too general. In the first series of reactions, which were published on the website, you did not see many suggestions, but many more individual complaints. That cannot have been the intention.
Too general
The question is too general, because no account is taken of the geographical distribution of all those Dutch people abroad. To begin with, I think I can assume that the vast majority of Dutch people abroad have settled somewhere in the European Union. There is a stark difference in wishes and, above all, rights between the Dutch and compatriots who live outside the Union. But that's not all, because in – just to name a few – Chile people can have completely different wishes and possibly suggestions than I – just to name a few – Thailand. Living and living in one country simply means different circumstances than in another and therefore shows different wishes.
Regional or national approach
If the Ministry of Foreign Affairs really wants to hear the voice of the Dutchman abroad, then the research should be done much more nationally or possibly regionally. Give the embassies and consulates the order to conduct an investigation in order to arrive at a report for The Hague via hearings supplemented by written responses. .
Thailand
A local investigation could and even should take place in my country of residence, Thailand. There are plenty of problems and wishes that may not apply to many other countries, just think of visa rules, health insurance, income statement, new passports and so on. There are enough Dutch people in Thailand, one thinks of 10 to 20.000 people and there are a lot of them among them, who, after years of experience, can contribute something to a better consular policy document.
Suggestions
I will not participate in the consultation in the manner proposed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Don't I have any suggestions? Yes, many, not mine, but several topics in the consular sphere have been discussed on this blog and made known to the embassy. Apart from reversing a ridiculous income statement scheme made by The Hague, the reply is always: “that is not in accordance with the rules, that does not fit in with the policy, we cannot make an exception for Thailand, that is not allowed by The Hague or – even worse – that was made against the agreements in Brussels.
Again, I'm not in, are you?
Quite right, it is not talking to the people, but about the people,
Without being able to provide an input, have previously transcribed here, regarding An appointment
Aachen after a lot of writing, could it come right away with your partner.
You have not partially disclosed the communication I received at the time, of which act
Embassies and consulates are ONLY for business.
If you come for a company you will be welcomed with coffee and cake.
They don't care about private individuals, are treated like shit…..
Circa 2001. We were doing a feasibility study under the PESP scheme. My Thai partner's wife and daughter were treated as if they were going to work in a lying-down institution in NL. Fortunately, Van Zanten saw this in time, and discharged the group into his own room. The son, studying in California, had to apply for a visa over Bangkok, and only then to NL.
During the trip here, people noticed how close Breda is to Zaventem resp. Dusseldorf is located. Even if the government plane sends me to pick them up one day, they will still go over airports outside the Netherlands on their own, people are still so angry.
Officials love forms, until they and we can no longer see the wood for the trees. For example, a Thai foreign national who is legally staying elsewhere for a long time (such as studying in the US) can simply go to a Dutch consulate in that country of long stay for a Schengen visa. But that is/was not always clearly indicated in the bins with shredded information and papers. And if a helpful BZ or IND employee does not point this out or, for example, even disputes it, then the fun can no longer end. Clear communication, as few forms as possible and this as simple as possible with as little red tape as possible, remains a thing.
And when things go wrong (your story about the Thai with the wrong pass that said Taiwan) in one instance, another government agency often has no understanding for this (the KMar that announces 'no, get out of here' instead of calling the IND, BZ etc. or even point out the possibility of calling in a picket lawyer).
But I don't think the Netherlands is an exception in this. Things can go just as well with the Thai, Germans, Belgians, etc., despite the fact that individual officials often do their best. The best civil servant is still the one who knows that procedures and rules are important, but that they do not provide 100% coverage, so you don't always have to nitpick to get it right to a hundred decimal places. It looks at the bigger picture.
Completely agree with these comments.
Studies are already being done (SVB) and they could be combined with qualitative customer research. However, selectively because in Turkey it is not allowed by a Dutch judge!!
Before 1974 I had a chat with the alderman in my hometown. His comment: ALWAYS write a hearing, because there will probably be someone with exactly the same ideas as you wish to implement. THAT puts you in the spotlight, bunch of flowers, and.. everyone happy.
I have only one message to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs: do together what you can do together, eg Schengen visas.
And I also have very bad experiences with the Dutch embassy in Bangkok as well as the officials in The Hague and the IND. As long as they don't know the difference between Thailand, capital Bangkok, and Taiwan…(on an MVV residence document card NLD42598119 dated 4 Dec 2001)
Gringo,
When I first announced the consultation, I already indicated that I would not participate in it. A waste of time and energy, because BV Nederland does exactly what The Hague wants. A consultation will not change that.
If there really are 10-20 thousand Dutch people living in Thailand, then you should try to bundle them together so that a discussion partner is created,
Individuals are less audible than a group, which is probably why people are interested in the opinion of interest groups.
I can already mention that if someone steps up to set up such an interest group, it is doomed to fail.
The Dutch are simply hard to unite since self-interest takes precedence over group interest and what manifests itself in thousands of opinions and steps on their toes if they don't get their way.
Subsequently, the complaints keep coming back on many forums and the government is the cause.
Ultimately, the House of Representatives controls the government's actions and it is precisely that House of Representatives that is elected by the voters. That is our form of democracy for what it is worth.
A clean job for Thailandblog. Yes, you will have to approach the politicians in the House of Representatives, because the rest….. And I want to pay for such a membership too, despite the fact that I have very little to do with Thailand.
Too bad the truth is as Gringo explains in great detail. BuZa, just like the entire Dutch government - from low to high - does exactly what they want. And absolutely nothing is done with so-called consultations or further forms in which the Dutch can indicate what their wishes are. Are only used, as Gringo aptly writes, to give a democratic touch to decision-making. Politicians, anywhere in the world, are not worth a dime. Thinking only of themselves and how best to fill a political career, with a lot of plush and an even bigger amount of money. I'll stop now, because if I start talking about politicians and politics, I could write a whole book. And politicians and politicians would fare very badly in that.
Yes, I filled it in! With especially the necessary comments, but also advice. Advice as described above. I like to make my voice and opinion heard. After all, many things can be much simpler, such as a visit visa for a Thai partner to the Netherlands. A sheet of A4 with checklists and signature should be possible. After all, a Thai would prefer to be in Thailand and return there.
Regards,
Martin
I have been visiting Dutch embassies all over the world for about 40 years as a private person for visas, passports or other personal consular issues.
Have never been treated like shit anywhere and always helped by friendly Embassy staff. I have to say that I always contacted them beforehand with my question/problem so that I showed up with all the documents on the doorstep
I have also been a member of various forums and NL associations and in Thailand, not only on this forum or regarding NL issues, I have never read so much negative as in the rest of the world.
Prepare yourself, know the regulations!
If you come across something positive, it will usually be taken up positively is my advice
I have been coming to the embassy in Bangkok for a number of years for my living certificate, I have applied for a new passport and collected my DigiD identification. I never had any problem there and everything was handled professionally and correctly.
Just for the record: my story is not about the embassy staff.
I have expressed my appreciation for them many times before. They work according to the rules and to those rules and the organization around it could be improved a lot from The Hague.
That's the gist of my article
The various departments, ministries and EU member states are still too much of their own kingdoms that are only concerned with correctly completing forms and procedures based on what the bosses and people at the top have come up with. And one hand doesn't seem to care what the other does as long as the papers of their own kingdom are in order. For example, why only include this from BuZa and not other agencies that citizens and businesses also have to deal with when they live/work in Thailand (or anywhere else)? Do you really want to see the Netherlands and the EU as one and think from the 'customer' perspective?
I would prefer to see a joint approach in which the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, BZ, the Tax and Customs Administration, SVB, etc. set out together to see how BV Nederland and BV Europe can work more efficiently and better so that a good product is produced for a low cost price, taking into account all aspects. kinds of interests at play. Think of the empathy statements, income statements, visa papers and what not. This could partly be done under the EU wing with satellite offices throughout the country (Phuket, Chiang Mai, Khon Kaen, …). But real cooperation does not seem to be happening yet at a national or international level, we can do it with a beautiful nationally streamlined house style and ditto EU flag, but really working together? Unfortunately still too little. This Ministry of Foreign Affairs investigation, however well-intentioned, is too general, too small-scale.