Fewer newcomers are integrating and the success rate is falling
The number of people coming to the Netherlands to integrate is decreasing and the success rate is also falling. Until 2013, newcomers were supervised by the municipality. Since 1 January of that year, they have been responsible for their own integration: they must arrange and pay for it themselves.
Newcomers must comply with the civic integration obligation within three years. They have to pass various exams, for example in reading skills and knowledge of Dutch society. If they fail to do so, fines will follow or the residence permit will be withdrawn.
The figures show that of the 10.641 newcomers who became subject to the integration requirement in 2013, only about 17 percent had integrated until July this year. The remaining 83 percent have an average of one year to comply with the obligation. Because the term has not yet expired, the Ministry of Social Affairs considers it premature to draw the conclusion that integration is not going well.
The figures also show a decrease in the total number of people taking the integration exam. Of the number of newcomers who take the exam, the percentage of newcomers who pass the exam is also decreasing over the years. In 2011, 77 percent passed, this year it is 53 percent.
Source: NOS.nl
Imagine the same arrangement if you want to extend your visa for TH: first speaking and writing Thai language, knowledge of the history and constitution of Thailand, how to deal with government authorities, etc. I think that more than 90% of all pensioners do not get.
How do I explain a Thai: nice that you speak fluent English and Mandarin, have a bachelor's degree in Economics and a master's degree in Food Science, but.. my NL government thinks that you cannot function in NL with that, so.. first learn Dutch etc. That person in question will have to function largely in English in her work… oh no civil servant who comes up with that idea. And at AH and Aldi, Blokker, Hema and Zeeman: they really understand her English. And that policeman with his coal English: understands her too. What do you think that person is doing? Right, DO NOT accept that job in the Knowledge Economy.
As far as I know, every country in the EU has a civic integration scheme, which usually consists of language knowledge, and a so-called integration course, including country knowledge. The fact that since 1 Jan 2013 people themselves are responsible for this integration has to do, among other things, with austerity measures, which have also taken place in other sectors, and the fact that they do not want to let the taxpayer pay for everything. Moreover, the civic integration obligation has a double function, for example, someone who has a good command of the language has a much better chance on the labor market, and when the husband passes away, he is not immediately dependent on help and money from the community. It is understandable that this integration obligation is not always easy for the person concerned, and the person who has to finance it, but cannot be compared, as Harry writes, with a pensioner who wants to extend his visa in Thailand, and who also does not speak Thai.
The Thais require a foreigner to provide financial resources, so that, unlike a Thai who lives in Europe, he is practically never a burden on the Thai state. So that any language skills or integration course is actually superfluous. If the financial means are no longer available, you will not be eligible for a visa extension and you will have to leave the country.
Nice quote of government policy.
However, if you work internationally, especially in a high-tech area, you have little use for the local Dutch - except at the coffee machine and in the canteen - but English is everything. YOUR possibilities on YOUR labor market depend on THAT. Cannot understand Dutch or in assignments, as a shelf filler in a supermarket, cleaning lady or machine assistant in a factory. And nobody cares if my partner earns some extra money.
Your story also confirms it again: it is not your integration or local language skills that are decisive, but the size of your wallet. Also in Thailand, never needed one word of Thai, but enough THBs. And this is – in the case of somewhat specialized positions – determined by the financial valuation of knowledge and skills, not by mastery of a local language or local language. know the way to the Soos. (and even there they speak enough English)
In other words: the whole process of integration can go overboard if the immigrant also has a fluent command of the de facto world language English. And if you have written and defended your dissertation in it… you have mastered it sufficiently to be able to work in NL as well. Everywhere.
Hence my statement: if you speak sufficient English and have sufficient required (HBO or more) education, then you should skip the integration course (the fact that you want to know more about the country, culture, language and customs of the country where you are staying is always wise). Did you seriously think that those North Sea diver-welders on an oil platform were assessed on their integration course? Or that helicopter / airplane / ship engine mechanic or that food technologist?
It is too crazy that a Syrian professor of surgery in NL has to start again in the lecture halls from scratch - in Dutch -, while we would like to have been operated on by such a person in the event of an accident there. ( Prof. Chris Bernard - you know, the South African with the first heart transplant - was not even allowed to enter the OR in NL. Bunch of clog dancers)
Dear Harry,
I hope the editors do not judge this as chatting, but many nationalities, including Thais, who want to settle in the Netherlands, usually do not have a higher education, and if this is the case, the question arises whether the quality can be compared with the Dutch education. For example, someone who comes to Thailand for a longer period of time knows that a university education, which most Thais do not have, cannot be compared with that of, for example, the Netherlands. The examples you mention of foreigners with a higher education are at most a very small part of reality. I myself have the English nationality, and I speak fluent English, and a few others also spoke fluent Dutch, because without this knowledge I could not function 100%. At the moment I live in Munich for a large part of the year, and here too I can function better with German, although many young people in particular also understand English. The integration course and the related language skills are primarily intended for those people who unfortunately do not have a higher education, so that they often encounter great difficulties in the labor market and daily life. Moreover, when it comes to fellow Thai citizens, I must say that most of them, with exceptions, speak very bad English themselves, so that if one wants to settle in a country, a language course is not superfluous, and this obligation exists in most European countries, and is certainly not a Dutch invention to annoy people. There may be exceptions for professional football players or other great talents, but we are in almost no danger of these people relying on community money.
If you now want your girlfriend/boyfriend to come to the Netherlands to live together, you are expected to pay the integration costs yourself. Fortunately I had nothing to do with that because before 2013 it was paid by the municipality. What has struck me now, if some sports association here thinks they have discovered a good runner who can win some kind of medal for us, then apparently different rules apply last World Cup there was an interview with a long jumper who competed for the Netherlands, so this one will also have a NED passport, the full interview with the Dutch journalist was done in English ????? they do have a NED passport but Dutch ho but the same with Ethiopian this lady tried to explain in Dutch that she was disappointed with the bronze medal but sorry I couldn't understand her but of course a passport. And with the slightest mistake during the exam, there is a reason to let the person integrating fail and have to pay the exam money again, so I think two standards are used here.
Harry: After getting married in Thailand, my wife was taught by a Dutch teacher
in Dutch language, culture and concepts. Course cost 1000E plus 3 months hotel costs Bangkok.
Subsequently, the civic integration examination was requested from Ned. Amber BKK. Have 350E for this in the Netherlands
must pay. After passing the integration exam at the level required for a provisional residence permit, my wife came here. Cost again 250E for IND Id-card. Afterwards she was obliged to take a follow-up course here. Paid for this too. Requirements apply to every Thai who wants to come to the Netherlands. Do not therefore understand that people can now come here without an integration exam. Apparently, double standards are applied and citizens of countries such as Thailand and the Philippines earn well.
Dear Gerardus, it is of course also possible to let those who come to the Netherlands on a tourist visa and prepare for the exam that will then be taken in BKK. But I agree with everyone who has commented on this…. 2 sizes are measured and it is made very difficult / expensive for you to bring your loved one here ......
The NOS piece is about the Civic Integration in the Netherlands (WI, Civic Integration Act) of A2 level or possibly the higher state exam NT2 (level 1 or 2). At the embassy it is the Civic Integration Abroad Act (WIB), which is at A1 level.
The WI is therefore more difficult and extensive than the WIB, so immigrants who come now also have to make a portfolio, make applications, etc. Without exception. So a Thai who quickly finds a job must then ask for time off from work or training to apply for the portfolio, etc. The current legislation has been turned into a nonsensical monstrosity with it also based on the outdated stereotypical image of hopeless, unmotivated strangers who disappear 3 floors behind.
Moderator: Repeating your views over and over is chatting.
Integration was primarily intended to allow immigrants from Turkey and Morocco in particular to participate in Dutch society. It has now become a buffer to keep out nationals from outside the EEC. However, due to a treaty with Turkey, which is not a member of the EEC, Turks can no longer be obliged to integrate and with the current flow of refugees to Europe (including the Netherlands), integration will, in my opinion, be less and less effective. Nevertheless, the integration course is becoming more and more difficult and the exam has been expanded again as of 1 January 1. In itself there is of course nothing against expecting some knowledge of the Dutch language, but that does not apply to everyone. In the apartment building, where I stay in the Netherlands, many other residents from various EEC countries live (and are therefore exempt from integration) and the communication of the VVE (association of owners) is in both Dutch and English. To pass the integration exam, the students must also compile a portfolio containing reports of conversations held in Dutch with neighbours, colleagues and others. The questions about Dutch society are tough, for example, would you know within how many days you have to register a birth? A lot of money is earned by various parties with the integration course and in my opinion the integration course has long overshot its goal. Thai entrants, among others, must also have a great deal of (useless) knowledge of Dutch society in order to be allowed to stay here. It is clear that 2 sizes are used in calculations, if you are lucky enough to be able to run fast or can kick a ball away, doors (from the town hall and the IND) will open for you that would normally remain closed.
My Thai wife has been living and working in the Netherlands since 2009 and cannot pass the spoken Dutch test.
She has now taken the exam 9 times.
Costs us 60 euros exam fee every time.
She passed all other subjects, but anyone who has ever heard a Thai speak Dutch knows that this is not easy for her.
Jos, your wife may be able to obtain an exemption from the integration obligation on the basis of being 'Evidently Integrated'. Please inquire with your municipality about this. If she has been living and working in the Netherlands for 6 years and can demonstrate that she has made sufficient efforts to obtain the integration certificate, but is unable to do so for certain reasons, it is likely that the municipality will conclude that your wife has sufficient has been established. The exemption on the basis of 'Evidently Inhabited' is in itself not sufficient for a residence permit of unlimited stay. In addition to the exemption, you must also be able to demonstrate that she has taken the exam at least 4 times, so that certainly applies to your wife, and that she has participated in at least 600 hours of integration courses. Good luck! And I completely agree with Rob V. that the integration law has become a nonsensical monstrosity!
@Jos, after 6 times you can apply for an exemption nowadays. The civic integration requirement is a good thing. Especially when it is arranged now, 650 hours of Dutch lessons, 3 or 4 exams and then it's done. Unlike in TH where you have to provide your own income and if there is not enough or the Bath falls further, everyone has to go back.
The new integration is easier without portfolio @rob so after 2013, well what you find easier.
My wife had lessons for a year, 4 mornings a week and passed all the exams in one sitting. At least a good foundation to continue in NL.
The current material is old-fashioned but surprising if you later hear a Thai answer someone with that knowledge. Two mates, yes it depends on what you call two mates a refugee from Syria or a partner from TH?
We also had a hard head in it, but afterwards it was a good experience, may cost a bit!
Integration has actually only become more difficult since its introduction: more components in a slightly different guise. For example, the old portfolio of the past has been scrapped, but there is now the Orientation on the Dutch Labor Market (ONA) component. This is mandatory and you cannot get an exemption for it. So someone who finds work quickly has to ask for time off to practice looking for honors, job applications, etc. Or the partner of a Dutch person who no longer has to work, they may just want to live together without the foreign partner still going to work here to search. And there are those who consciously become househusbands or housewives. But they all have to do ONA. See more on inburgeren.nl
People mean well, discover that there are still pitfalls that immigrants need to be informed about and then come up with something nice for the exams without taking individuals into account. There will be those who will certainly find ONA useful, those where it matters and those where it makes no sense at all. But you do have to allocate money for such an exam component. No, things are not getting better step by step, they continue to see the family immigrant as potentially underprivileged, who therefore has to learn more and more. The only good thing is the exemption with demonstrably sufficient effort with a few hundred hours of lessons.
I like the German model better: cheap lessons. The immigrant with ambition can get by. The handful that have no motivation will not be integrated anyway. You do the integration yourself, not jumping through certain hoops. Give the immigrant some tools and low-threshold access to learn the language, etc. I think most of them will. The average family migrant no longer comes from the Reef Mountains.
Moderator: Repeating your views over and over is chatting.
Every few weeks I read reports from The Hague about, for example, AOs (General Consultations) between parties when immigration, integration, integration, naturalization, etc. are discussed. This gives a good idea of what parties want and what might be included. I still remember the AOs about the work module that they were satisfied that the integrator would benefit from it. Practically no MP says “that's all well and good, but what about customization? Don't impose unnecessary things on people, but something that someone really benefits from and doesn't have unnecessary rubbish shoved down their throats."
There are also few concerns about the low success rates in The Hague, I say off the top of my head that only D66, SP and GL are concerned about how it is all arranged now and whether everyone can meet the integration requirement in time.
For those who also hold va lecturing from The Hague:
- https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/dossier/32824 (main file Integration)
- https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/kst-32824-89.html (including number of graduates)
- https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/kst-32824-74.html (about the labor market module)
As a bonus, you will find a report there since yesterday about integration abroad last year: “Monitor basic exam integration abroad 2014” .