The title of this article does not come from me, let that be said, but could be the conclusion of the fact that the Netherlands scores worse than Thailand on a very dubious ranking of children's rights. The list is compiled annually by an organization called Kidsrights. The Netherlands ended up at 15 this yearde place, while Thailand in 8th place has arrived. You, like me, are surprised by that, aren't you?
Several news media pay attention to this Kidsrights Index 2017 and with a headline like the one above, that is not surprising. If you want to read those articles, do a bit of Googling, because I'm not going to repeat that here. How the list is compiled and with what criteria is explained in a long and tedious story on the Kidsright website. I have tried to read and understand it, but it is a monotonous theoretical story, which is of no use to you.
A quote from the article in De Volkskrant: “According to Kidsrights, a large number of children in the Netherlands live in poverty and children in families with a minimum income are affected by the cutbacks. Moreover, the quality of youth care in many municipalities is still not up to par as a result of decentralization.”
That may be true and we can agree that (more) work needs to be done, but does that mean that a child is better off in Thailand? I would like to hear concrete examples in which the right of a child is honored better than in the Netherlands. Those examples are not included in the report, so just a few questions for the makers of the Kidsrights Index:
Do you have any idea of:
- how many children in Thailand have to live in poverty?
- How many children in Thailand cannot exercise their right to education?
- How many children in Thailand are still victims of organized child labour?
- How many children in Thailand are otherwise exploited and abused, for example in prostitution?
- How many children end up in orphanages in Thailand?
My questionnaire can easily be expanded. We have already paid attention to this on this blog. Read an example here: www.thailandblog.nl/background/abuse-uitbuiting-kinderen-thailand
One wonders in heart why and for what purpose such a nonsensical index is made!
Anyone who looks around without rose-colored glasses, in the Netherlands and Thailand, will share Gringo's amazement.
I'm not adding anything to this.
So I don't mind that at all.
It has long since ceased to be as good as it used to be in the Netherlands. Not even for children.
Financially things SEEMS good in the Netherlands because the gross wages are quite high, but lower than surrounding countries, but not much of that remains net.
After paying the horribly high fixed costs, there is little or nothing left for many. Until modal is insufficient for many to be able to pay for the fixed costs and toes and drinks.
Then the child care story. Anyone who has ever had to deal with this knows that it is absolutely no fun. Not for the parents, but not at all for the children.
Since that was deposited with the municipalities, it has become even worse than it already was.
Things aren't much better in the schools. That, too, has gone downhill.
Just like for adults, safety for young people has not exactly improved. This has been especially dramatic in recent years.
Now I don't want to say that Thailand is ideal, especially for families who have to get by on minimum income, but I personally would rather live in Thailand with a Thai minimum wage than in the Netherlands with a Dutch minimum wage.
It is both just not enough to live on and just too much to die from, but in Thailand you have many other options to get your food.
The food bank exists in the Netherlands, but they serve less than 5% of the people who actually need it.
Where the Netherlands also falls seriously short is the right to self-determination, especially for children under the age of 12. They have absolutely nothing to say about themselves. Especially when they have to deal with youth care. Then the youth care workers together with the parents decide everything about those children. They themselves have absolutely nothing to contribute.
This is apparent from the KidsRights report, but also from what I have seen up close.
Health care is also no longer fully accessible, even for many children. Many parents can no longer afford care that is not included in the basic package, and sometimes/often not even what is included in that basic package, because they cannot pay the personal contribution.
Unfortunately, the once beautiful Netherlands is no longer the paradise it used to be for most people, and the future unfortunately does not look much brighter. Yes, the economy is picking up, but unfortunately most people still notice very little of that. Where you have to share an economic growth of 2-3% with 1-1,5% more people every year, things are not improving per person, but are deteriorating.
Where care is being cut back but more and more people are using it, that care per person is certainly not getting better.
That is what is happening in the Netherlands. The economy is growing slower than the population. For decades.
It doesn't get any better for almost anyone, except the elite. They make more money that way.
In the Netherlands, just like in many other countries, there are many things that could possibly be improved, but what most complainers forget, all this also has a price tag. A price tag that most people like to pay for, while they like to complain, and forget to look at those countries that are clearly doing worse. Not only in Thailand, but also in many other countries, they have never heard of social services that are somewhat comparable to those of, for example, the Netherlands. An old woman in Thailand, who has no family to care for her, receives less than 1000 Bath a month from her government. While a Dutch person, even if he has never worked, is entitled to an AOW benefit, rental subsidy, domestic help (if necessary), etc. etc. It is a fact that these people are not well off, although there are always those who can still afford a trip to Thailand. Even the medical care, for which everyone is actually insured, is many times better than what most Thais know from their country. While I would like to ignore the quality difference in education, compared to the Netherlands, because this has already been discussed several times on Thailandblog.nl. These enormous differences in lives and social services, of course, have their price, which must be paid by a community. My wife is even Thai, and is always amazed by these complainers, because even she sees that most of them do not realize how good they actually have it, compared to many other countries.
A famous quote from John F Kennedy,
Do not constantly ask what your country can do for you, but what you yourself can do for the country.
And that's certainly not what he meant, the constant complaining.
What a negative, narrow-minded story about NL that is not based on facts but on a very small frame of reference.
I think this is total nonsense.
Many studies (read the reports of our “hapiness professor” Ruut Veenhoven, among others) show
that we in NL are among the best educated, most innovative, healthiest and happiest people in the world.
In NL there are many opportunities to study and to move up, also for children of parents with minimum wage.
Perish in Thailand with the poor education, the corrupt teachers and officials, not appreciating one's own initiative, child prostitution, poverty, etc.
Thailand is a beautiful country, but in my opinion it is much better for children to grow up in NL!!
That happiness report is not about happiness, but about how happy people should feel based on income and health, for example.
It says nothing about how happy people feel.
Michel: you did well to leave the Netherlands if you prefer to live on a Thai minimum! I have never read such nonsense and nonsense because I see with my own eyes how the children of my wife's brothers and sisters have it!!!
The life of a child in the Netherlands is still infinitely better than the life of a child in Thailand. Even though mothers have social assistance benefits. You really don't know what you are talking about, we have people in our circle of acquaintances with a minimal Thai income who are delighted when we empty our freezer compartment, or when we occasionally bring a bag of good rice with us when we visit.
A Dutch mother with 2 children on social assistance goes home with over 2000 euros every month. I have to work hard for that!
However, I know many children in Thailand who have it much better than in Belgium. The Netherlands can of course be different.
You are right, the child of the red bull founder eg, the villain! More HS examples? That way I know more!
If you assume that there are only 2 types of children in Thailand. The HS financially happy children and the other. Then of course you are right.
That may be right, Ronny, Belgium is also in 11th place below Thailand, but still better than the Netherlands, ha ha ha!
You can test that the conclusions that people think can be drawn from the report are at least dubious by answering the following questions: suppose you are a child growing up in 'poverty', in which country do you have the best prospects of still going well? Netherlands or Thailand? Suppose you are neglected, under the age of 12, where are you better off: under the care of youth care in the Netherlands, or at the mercy of the laws of the street in Thailand, where can that child assert his 'rights'?
It should be noted that there is always room for improvement, but that is a different discussion than the question in which country a child has the most rights in relative terms and can also exercise them.
It seems that many of you no longer know the Netherlands. Certainly not when it comes to children. At almost every school in the Netherlands, children are fed, washed and changed every day in the morning. These children receive another meal around 12 noon. At home there is no money for food, showering and putting on clean clothes every day; that's too expensive . And it is probably sometimes better to live on the street than to have to deal with child protection in the Netherlands. That is the Netherlands at the moment. If you were mentally ill as a child, it would be a total disaster. Some municipalities deal with it reasonably, but many deal poorly (a judge ruled on this a few weeks ago). It is ridiculous that you have to go to court to get a child treated. If you have money, the child in the Netherlands has a good life, but many do not; even though they both work. And then the children are the victims. Many general practitioners are therefore confronted with malnourished children in the Netherlands.
Roja, I have no doubt that many will share your dramatic view of the Netherlands. Many who were / or still are dissatisfied with the government for years, and, among other things, the influx of foreigners. The paradox, however, is that they are now foreigners themselves, are obliged to report every 90 days, and do not want to hear anything wrong from the ruling military government. Many would have to leave Thailand tomorrow if they didn't receive their AOW from the terrible Netherlands. Most who doom the Netherlands would pray and beg to come back to the Netherlands if, without their own secure money, they were assigned to work in the same way as most Thais have to do to provide for their families. Work for which not infrequently, for a long day in the burning sun, is paid at most the minimum wage of 300 Bath. When they retire, instead of the familiar AOW and further pension schemes, they are entitled to Thai state support of approximately 600 Bath. , and feed. Under these circumstances, the paradise so praised of you takes on an entirely different quality, although I am convinced that this will still be fought off by a few.
You are also completely wrong about Thailand. Only 5-6% of expats are retired. The rest WORK in Thailand, and not because the wages here are so bad.
The minimum wage in Thailand is low, almost as low as the minimum youth wage in the Netherlands. Salaries for managers and senior positions, however, are a completely different story. Not everyone here has minimum wage. Just like in the Netherlands, people with more education and experience are paid better here than people who can't do anything.
Dear Michael, most people who respond to Thaiblog nl consist for the most part of expats and holidaymakers, who make a good living from the money that earns in the Netherlands / Europe, or is transferred monthly to their account. Regarding the minimum wage, I am convinced that this group is many times larger than the small minority you mentioned, which consists of managers and who occupy a high position. If you have come to the conclusion that those who receive a minimum wage belong to a minority, then I would advise you to look around a bit in Thailand. I also doubt the 5-6& of those Dutch people who live exclusively on their pension in Thailand, because this is far from reality. Most Europeans, including most Dutch people, live on pensions, state pensions or other capital, most of which comes from their home country.
Dear Corretje, to begin with I really don't need a Thai woman to read the Thai newspaper to me, because I can still provide myself with a very realistic picture of the Thai reality. Am also still able to follow the Thai news broadcasts because of the aid program about which the Thai government finally wants to help these poorest people. What you call a total reversal is really no longer like Peanuts dividing the government to avoid further social unrest. The annual amount that these people can expect at most annually will not be much more than the daily budget that many farangs need daily to find a little holiday happiness. If you and your possible children are assigned to live on this money, I would like to read from you how great this total turnaround, if you called it, really was for you.
Very correct Roy. At least you don't have your eyes in your pocket like most of the commenters above. They are either blind or left-wing or have been away from the Netherlands for far too long and are not informed.
My little brother's children are currently victims of a confrontational divorce, but much more of the Child Protection system, other so-called assistance, curve people who dare to call themselves judges and many more agencies that are making it worse for them.
The Netherlands has long ceased to be the Netherlands, but a socialist hell state. Completely for children.
Michael, frustrated? Don't have my eyes in my pocket and I'm not a reactant! As I said: I see enough of my wife's family, so I don't just talk! That's why they all look for a farang because life is so good in Thailand…..That's why so many Asians from poor countries work abroad, do you know why they work there? I don't believe it with your pink Thailand glasses
In the end it is therefore up to your brother and his ex because they cannot come to an agreement, you quote it yourself: 'fightful divorce', the word says more than enough.
The service really wants to do its best for the children, however, it often happens that after a divorce the parents do not give each other the light in the eyes and therefore play the children off against each other without wanting to see the importance of their own flesh and blood .
The first responsible parties are really them and not Child Protection, that's very easy!
The problem is that these studies are done with figures that cannot be compared at all.
A poverty line, for example, is not an absolute amount and there are also different definitions for it.
For example, one of the definitions looks at the income that the majority of people earn.
Under such a definition, you can starve, so to speak, and still not be poor.
If everyone in that country (except for a few super rich) earns very little.
Me, my girlfriend, our back neighbors (she thai) have also been surprised by this report.
But yeah. Well, we must of course take into account that the children in the Netherlands are having a very difficult time.
Read. They have to go to school and for 24 hours (really no joke, come from education myself) when it comes to secondary and higher education sit in the couch and behave properly.
Of course, and that is probably due to our large group with a non-Western background, the Dutch exam was really difficult this year. Some students even cried.
(Really). Was in the paper.
Of course it makes you cry. Cause at home little or no Dutch speaking or was it talking. Hmm, I'm having a hard time with this one.
Let's not talk about grammar and sentence parsing and the daft conjugations of words like google or was it google? facebooking or is it face books?? Hmm, so on.
It also makes me cry.
But yes to the point. Of course, things are going badly for the youth in the Netherlands. Especially if you don't have a Smartphone or I-pad or etc.
If it is already stated that children in Belgium are better off than those in the Netherlands who break my clog. Unfortunately I don't have it. I now live in the Netherlands and work in Belgium.
In addition, I am often in Jomtien or in Uttaradit (countryside). If I compare there with here, then I think rose colored glasses or maybe too much smoke or was it smoked when this report was drawn up.
Hello
Which children's right in Thailand?
To be able to ride a moped with four of you at the age of eleven, or to have the right to decide for yourself what time you want to go to bed, to get a blow in the head if you perform poorly at school... and I can still do that. keep going. I don't attach any value to that kidsright list at all.
Adri
Kids for rights uses completely unclear data to draw completely wrong conclusions. A storm in and a glass of water. Anyone who thinks that children on a minimum level have a better life in Thailand than in the Netherlands is out of their mind.
Which doesn't say anything about quality of life, by the way. I tend to rate it a bit higher in Thailand than in the Netherlands. But if I really had to choose, I would still say: Europe, somewhere in the south. Working for a living, and yet well cared for.
As on so many points, all rights are laid down in detail – and in handwritten plural – in Thailand; only that is ignored by 'everyone' (between quotes, because there must be an exception).
In the Netherlands it would be good if people were taught how to handle money from primary school.
I dare say that many people are financially illiterate with all the consequences that entails.
Then teach me how I can still live with € 1200 net income and € 1200 fixed costs.
That cannot be taught.
Yes, that's how bad the fixed costs are for many in the Netherlands, and I haven't even counted a car and petrol.
Maybe you should take a closer look at your spending.
If you give 3 euros to 1200 people, you will get 3 different outcomes at the end of the month.
One is in the red, the other plays kite and the other is left with it.
Owning a car is logical for many people, but do you need it.
Where the neighbor goes to the store by car for groceries, the other goes walking or cycling.
Going to work by car while the other gets on the train and then the bus
Read the newspaper in the library, is free.
Put your consumption to the trade and don't look too much at what someone else has.
Not wanting to lean on the government if you can't buy everything your eyes see
I was taught about money by my parents and grandparents.
Why the school again?
Incidentally, that education started before primary school age.
At the age of 4 I already received a piggy bank, with an explanation, what the purpose of a piggy bank was.
Thanks to that explanation, I now have a view of a few palm trees and a lot of weeds in my garden.
But it is precisely the young people who cannot handle money.
Saving is no longer taught.
Spending nicely what comes in and for most even more (debts)
No longer save but borrow because they want it now.
But if you can't save, you can't pay off either.
And why the school again, the school is there to learn after all
sure dude, totally agree with you.
live and let live but then don't complain that you can't make ends meet and feel sad.
In the Netherlands we get enough of the government : rent subsidy, health care allowance, child benefit and undoubtedly more allowances and it is never enough.
One never looks within themselves to see if they are not spending too much.
Worries are for tomorrow, well bear those worries and don't complain
Don't complain but carry, they used to say
There are so many differences between the two countries that such a comparison is not valid. It's like comparing apples and oranges.