Corruption in Thailand: first understand
Whether corruption is good or bad is of course not a point of discussion. I am so trusting (or naive) that I think this also applies to the vast majority of the Thai population. So why is corruption so prevalent in this country?
When I ask my class of 4th year students if they give a police officer who wants to ticket them for not wearing seatbelts (500 baht) 100 or 200 baht 'coffee money' to get out of the ticket, everyone nods in agreement. Or do they think that's wrong? Also nodding in agreement. Why they do it anyway? Compassionate faces. When I tell them that I always pay fines properly, people look at me as if I am not wise (and not).
What is a real, sustainable solution?
In this article I will make an attempt to better understand the phenomenon of corruption in Thailand. After all, without understanding there are no effective measures to combat corruption (provided that this is what people really want in this country). The die-hards undoubtedly say: better investigation, independent police and judiciary and harsher punishments. But is that a real, sustainable solution? A solution that sticks? The softies say: a change of mentality among the Thai population is the solution. But: how long do we have to wait before corruption in this country decreases significantly?
Confusion of concepts
Before I go deeper into the backgrounds, I must first define what corruption actually is. Otherwise we are not talking about the same thing and are confusing it with something else, such as patronage or bribery. Let me try to define and illustrate several concepts with an example.
patronage
Party A grants party B favors that are socially and morally disproportionate to what party B has to do in return, and sometimes party B does not have to do anything at all. In my previous article I gave some examples of this and called it psychological slavery. When the favors are more 'normal', it is called that bitch jai. But yes: opinions (may) differ about what is 'normal'.
Bribery
Party A makes party B do something that is impermissible or illegal (which both parties know) and pays for it (directly or indirectly) in some way. This includes 'buying' votes of Thais (mainly living in poorer areas) with a view to elections. This can be done in a direct way (giving 500 or 1000 baht to a person with the explicit request to vote for a certain party. It can also be done in an indirect way, such as paying for the petrol for the moped (or paying of the beer or phone cards, and many other creative ways) for several weeks before the election and stopping payments after election day.
Because there are many poor Thais (some of whom consider their situation rather hopeless) it is quite easy to bribe a poor Thai for money. Even for offenses for which a Thai (if caught) will go to jail for years, such as trafficking and / or transporting drugs or murder, you do not have to pay an extreme amount of money.
Cheating
Party A pays party B to do (or refrain from doing) something, but party B does something other than what was paid for and explicitly DOES NOT report this to party A. Example: a contractor who has been commissioned to build a runway at Suvarnabhumi airport hires a subcontractor to supply the sand. This company supplies sand of an inferior quality (but charges the price of a better quality) and says nothing to the contractor. After four years, holes appear in the runway.
Blackmail
Party A makes party B do something that party B does not want to do. However, party B feels more or less forced (by direct or indirect threats). An example: the son of a wealthy Thai family causes a fatal traffic accident. The causes of the accident are: speeding and the young driver of the car was under the influence of alcohol and drugs. The boy's father, a friend of the minister of justice (responsible for the police), calls the relevant police commissioner with the request to put the results of the alcohol and drug investigation into perspective and to question them as much as possible.
Corruption
With the knowledge/consent/cooperation of party A, party B (of its own free will) does things that are impermissible or illegal. Party A and Party B both are the benefited parties and the injured party is a third party (or the legal system or society as a whole).
Let me go back to the example of the runway at Suvarnabhumi airport. A contractor commissioned to build a runway at the airport hires a subcontractor to supply the sand. This company consults with the contractor. Both decide to put inferior quality sand under the new runway.
The airport owner pays the price of better quality sand. The price difference between the inferior and the better quality sand is divided 50-50 between the contractor and the sand supplier. It is rumored that some top executives within the company that owns the airport know about this deal and are being 'paid' for their silence. After four years, holes appear in the runway. The contractor is now bankrupt.
Corruption takes three parties
Unlike patronage, bribery, blackmail and deceit, corruption requires not two but three parties. The first party who wants to achieve something and gives or pays for money, goods or services (to the second party or top officials within the second party); a second party who knowingly and FREELY does things on the basis of these gifts and/or payments (stocks, gold, credit cards, expensive watches, houses, cars, sweet trips, etc.) that are socially, morally and/or legally inappropriate , and a third party who – as it turns out later or not – is ultimately the injured party. Corruption, in my view, is the collusion of two parties to benefit BOTH at the expense of a THIRD party.
For a crime there must be a motive and occasion
I've never read so many crime novels in my entire life, but I used to faithfully watch series like Bantjer, Flickers en The Kommissar. What I have always remembered is that for a crime – in addition to a weapon – there must always be a motive and an occasion. With that in mind, let's take a closer look at corruption in Thailand.
If we are to believe the studies among the Thai population, corruption in the civil service (especially the police) and politics is the greatest. In almost all cases, the motive for corrupt behavior is short- or medium-term monetary gain. Why? You would think that these civil servants earn more than average. Yes, but according to the 2010 Civil Servants Living Condition Survey, they also have huge debts.
84 percent of civil servants are in debt
84 percent of civil servants have debts and this percentage has only grown in recent years (including among senior civil servants). With an average monthly income of 43.650 baht, people also have an average of 872.388 baht in debt. The largest debt burden concerns house and car. No wonder that the Thai official has a constant hunger for (cash) money.
In addition to the monthly lottery (the legal and the illegal version), gambling in illegal casinos, dealing drugs, a second job (usually a shop or taxi driver), trying to marry a rich Thai partner (and thereby end up in another network ) or a rich foreigner (without a significant network in Thailand) there is another possibility to get cash money faster: corruption. But is there an opportunity for that? Yes, several occasions even.
Why is the government so often disadvantaged?
The third party in corruption scandals, the injured party, is very often the government or the legal system and NOT the Thai business community. If a Thai company is disadvantaged, it often seeks its right and compensation for damage suffered (especially if it is large) in court.
Why is the government so often disadvantaged? One of the reasons is that – and you don't want to believe that as a foreigner, because you have a different experience, for example at Immigration, few rules, laws and expenses are controlled by the Thai officials.
The chance that the corruption will be noticed is minimal. Did you know that 3,2 percent of the working population in Thailand work for the government (of which an estimated half in the army and police) compared to 12 percent in the Netherlands?
And secondly: if checks are already carried out and irregularities appear: do you think that a lower official will raise this with his superior, at the risk that this superior is involved in the corruption plot (or also smells money)?
Third, do you think this junior civil servant will take this up with his superior if he/she gets some extras (some extra money to pay off his debts; promotion to a better job) from his superior every now and then for which he/she don't have to do anything (patronage)?
Fourth: those lower in hierarchy should respect their superiors (hai publishes) and superiors should also make their subordinates happy (nam I have).
The state is very often the injured party
The conclusion is that patronage ('psychological slavery') and corruption within government agencies is systemic BUT that the state (or sometimes the general justice system) is also very often the aggrieved party in the corruption.
Paying 200 baht coffee money to the police officer makes the officer better (namely 200 baht richer, and immediately), the offender better (namely don't pay 500 baht but only 200 baht) but the government misses 500 baht and gets nothing. But who is the government here: the Minister of Finance? A somewhat laughable example for Westerners is the case in which the construction of new police stations has been stopped by the contractor because the contractor has not been paid a baht (advance) by the police so far, contrary to the usual rules in paying for construction projects. for his work.
Evil tongues claim that the police counted on the contractor going bankrupt so that a subsequent contractor can finish the police stations at a lower price. However, the contractor goes to court: a minor miscalculation by the police department that deals with buildings.
Corruption – networking – patronage
Corruption must involve free will, I wrote. In my article on patronage I have tried to explain how such a system puts pressure on the psychological functioning of the Thai population. And almost all Thai people have to do with patronage to a greater or lesser extent, privately and in their work.
In my article about networking I explained that the two are often linked: people at work are not just colleagues, but also relatives or acquaintances of each other. Thai people often talk about “my friend in office”.
The Dutch very rarely have friends in the same office. In many cases – in my opinion – there is no real free will. Expressing criticism of your (psychological) superior is even indecent in Thai culture because it is against the bitch jai and the hi kiad goes in.
Patronage then degenerates into bribery (when the requested behavior is accompanied by a more direct form of reward) or blackmail (when behavior is compelled by threats of punishment). And if you, together with your employer or another person in your network, harm a third party, that is called corruption.
Chris de Boer
Chris de Boer (59) has been living and working in Thailand since 2006. Since 2008 he has been affiliated with Silpakorn University as a lecturer in marketing and management. He previously published 'Thailand is pre-eminently a network society' (5 April 2013) and 'Whose bread one eats, whose word one speaks' (21 April 2013). Tino Kuis acted as co-reader for the above article and provided an earlier version of comment.
Learned something again. That makes a lot clear to me. The indebtedness of civil servants is cited as a motive for corruption. That is certainly true, but why are the richest the biggest grabbers? I would rather call plain common greed as a motive.
Quote from former Prime Minister Abhisit from a speech at the 'International Corruption Conference' in Bangkok, November 2010:
'The fight against corruption is a moral imperative and cannot be won by legislation alone. We can have the best laws, but as long as the population remains indifferent and apathetic, it is a losing battle. Let us remember these words: 'the accomplice to corruption is often our own indifference.'
And that's what it's all about. The fight against corruption cannot come from above, but must be supported by the majority, and come from below.
Perfect treatise with only 1 miss. The third (injured) party is not the government, but the Thai population as a whole. The money, which runs into the billions of baht on an annual basis, and disappears into the pockets of a small group of profiteers who are part of the so-called 'elite', was spent without the so-called 'kickbacks' on the various ministries and benefited better infrastructure , education, health care, environmental protection, etc. In other words, the Thai people.
The “street corruption” you call here, the underpaid police officer who settles the fine with the offender on the spot, is not the form of corruption that is so disastrous for the development of this country. I would almost like to say; on the contrary. The three hundred baht that the government misses should actually be spent by the same government on better pay for that police officer (or any official for that matter).
The lion's share of corruption occurs in deals between business and government. When the large, so-called 'mega-projects' are launched, a number of which are in the pipeline where you may wonder what purpose they serve (I am thinking of the planned high-speed lines). That's where the actual corruption takes place that remains invisible to mere mortals.
Dear Cor,
I partly agree and partly disagree. You mix things up because what happens between companies and government is not always corruption, but often also bribery (a civil servant receives money to award a contract) or blackmail (if you, civil servant do not do this for me, I will tell you that you received a car from me a year ago) or patronage (the civil servant receives cars and watches with the supposed future consideration of not seeing or hearing things) or just plain illegal behavior. Many middle-class officials (just look in the smaller neighborhoods) drive cars and Harleys and live in houses that they can't have with their salary and loans alone. So it's not just the big boys.
Corruption for me is not only about money but ALSO about attitude. I strongly deny that the local police officer is not that important. My students don't know why they give the man money, but they do. Later, when they are managers, they also cannot distinguish between right and wrong.
In my next article I will discuss corruption and the government in more detail.
chris
Oops Chris, another miss. According to the Thai Ministry of Economy, the current unemployment rate in the country is 0.83%. Wow, at such a percentage many European countries are licking their fingers. Unfortunately, the ministry omits that anyone who "does" something in Thailand, whether it is an emergency supply buyer or a plastic bottle collector - people who work in the 'informal sector', is considered to be working
However, of this huge working population, only 2.2 million Thai people pay income tax and more than 60 percent of them work in the public sector and are therefore civil servants.
Sorry, only Thai link available:
http://www.ryt9.com/s/cabt/1579140
http://www.opdc.go.th/index.php
The civil service in Thailand is, due to the amount of officials and the top-down management, extremely unwieldy and unclear, making corruption very easy to take root.
dear choir,
I didn't talk about the unemployment rate. I know that's low. In addition to the number of people who simply do something in the informal sector and earn too little to pay taxes, the REGISTERED unemployment is so low because the unemployed do not register or have themselves registered. Why not? Because that doesn't bring any benefit. There is no unemployment benefit, no real employment office, no money retraining and luckily there is the network that takes care of you. (see my first article on networking with the example of my ex-girlfriend's brother). Last year's survey among Thai unemployed aged 20 to 35 shows that 70% of them do not WANT to work.
chris
Chris, probably not entirely true what you write. At the end of 2011 during the floods I was at the office for my state pension application. It was quite busy with all kinds of people who applied for benefits and received them because they were unable to work because the companies were under water. I think this was a kind of unemployment benefit, only there is only a small group who can claim this.
@ Ruud NK As far as I know, the Social Security Fund has a limited unemployment benefit. But then the employees/donors must be affiliated with it. The newspaper sometimes also writes about ad hoc benefits after disasters. You could have seen that.
Mr de Boer, you write the truth.
The final conclusion of a Dutch Expat and of course our Flemish friends is simple. This country is rotten. As expats, we deal with this on a daily basis. 200 baht for a traffic violation (that you didn't commit) and nowadays on the Bangkok-Chonburi highway 1000 to 2000 baht for something that didn't happen is normal. I have already written that this blog is for expats and tourists who live here or go on holiday to Thailand. For most of us there is certainly no turning back given our age.
Cor van Kampen.
Dear Mr van Kampen,
Indeed, this country does not meet Western standards of transparent democracy and good governance. However, it is also not fair to apply these Western standards. If the Thai were to apply their standards to the Netherlands or Belgium, they would probably also use words such as 'rotten' when they see that adult children do not take care of their parents but 'store' them in nursing homes, that we people who do not work do money, that we allow the sale of drugs in so-called coffee shops, that we joke about the royal family or that you need permission, permits and papers for everything you want to do.
Thailand is different. If you compare the good things of the west with Thailand, you can buy a plane ticket back to your home country today. If you compare the good things of Thailand with the bad things of the west, you will stay here forever. Everyone has to find their own balance.
chris
In the past I have also been guilty of those comparisons of Thailand with the Netherlands. That makes no sense.
What I strongly support is the assumption of universal values, and these are or should be the same for all earthlings. We all want transparent democracy and good governance. Taking good care of your parents and your children is also a universal value. Being kind to your fellow man is another . No one and no country ever achieves perfection in the pursuit of those values, there is always something to criticize.
All Thais want transparent democracy and good governance. Many Thais have fought for this and some have paid with their lives. What matters is that you are aware of those values, and strive for them in your daily life. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, and we shouldn't make a fuss about it.
Let's stop always comparing Thailand with the Netherlands. Be aware of your values and do something with them, right here and now!
A whole wall of text to explain what corruption is and that it is rampant in Thailand. Surely we can assume this to be known? Incidentally, it goes wrong in the first sentence, because whether corruption is good or bad was recently a point of enormous discussion on the thailand blog. That shouldn't be the case, but there appears to be a segment of readers that is so well established that praise has been blown about the phenomenon of corruption.
I'm afraid I can already outline the sequel on corruption and government:
– In large projects, 30% or more remains hanging on the bow.
– Corruption in government functions as a well-organized system.
– The ordinary Thai is indeed affected by this because this money is not used for public purposes.
– However, the ordinary Thai does not see this and is therefore not opposed to corruption.
– Corruption continues almost unimpeded and is a brake on the development of the country.
It is a pity that the question “What is a real, sustainable solution?” not (yet) answered. That's what it's all about. But maybe I'm too much a pragmatist and not enough an academic.
A heavy subject, beautiful. But it starts with the ticket for which the full pound is paid. I think this is exaggerated. The humor and the custom and the pleasant social interaction are completely lost when you deal with 'all' corruption in this way. (In which country does oncoming traffic passing in front of you turn off and let you continue, as long as you participate in it yourself. Requires vigilance.) I hope there will not be such strict action in Thailand. If you don't wear a helmet you have to pay and that happens.. Unfortunately, that becomes more and more expensive with repetitions. If it was bad, the officers would also wear a helmet themselves, especially if they transport their children on the moped. Let this Thai humor stay. As soon as you are 5 km from Chiangmai no one pays attention to whether you are wearing a helmet. I hope it will never be like in the Netherlands where you are prosecuted to death for not paying a fine. I'd rather have a policeman's corruption for not wearing a helmet.
In the Netherlands it is also possible to talk to a police officer about the fine, yes or no (extenuating circumstances, jokes, the hot or warm weather, etc.). But the agent won't ask for cash so as not to write you up. And if you offer the cop money, you go to the station and get a second ticket for trying to bribe a cop. And rightly so.
I have never bribed, blackmailed or corrupted anyone here in Thailand. Patronage is sometimes unavoidable and because you are a foreigner you are sometimes favored, sometimes disadvantaged. Such is life, for me here in Thailand, for Thai in the Netherlands.
chris
You can't compare Uncle Cop to the cop here. And certainly not his salary. And if I have to give 200 baht sight unseen, that's the situation. I hope he does something with his family. A land of deep waters, but which I have a lot of sympathy for and love very much.
Chris,
interesting article.
we should do more articles like this.
It gives a deeper insight into Thai culture.
At the risk of being accused of discrimination if I even put a penny in the bag.
The population group that controls almost everywhere in Thailand is well known to us, I think.
In the country of origin, "squeeze" has been a "business" form for thousands of years, without squeeze no business.
So that's the origin of corruption in Thailand, and other countries where the designated population group has a grip on power.
Nonsense?
Discrimination?
My bookkeeper in the Netherlands was a very guessing Chinese lady.
He has often told me how things are going among this population group in the Netherlands and elsewhere.
Transfer money to others, at home or abroad?
No bank involved.
Squeeze is a custom within this community that is also rampant in the Netherlands.
Incidentally, well known to the police and the judiciary
In my view, civil servants and politicians involved in corruption are common criminals.
Corruption we all hate it, but when we need it we all use it. My conclusion, corruption is wrong, but sometimes damn useful.
“We all hate corruption, but when we need it we all use it.”
Peter, for God's sake. We? Speak for yourself and not for me. Thank you.
Also in Italy, where all these practices were invented and can be summarized under the name Mafia, society is entirely based on this 'live and let live' system. It has led to some wonderful feature films and TV series, something that unfortunately – sigh – will never happen in Thailand. Thais will therefore never get the chance to take an objective look at themselves.
My little bar pays 4000 baht monthly to the various police departments otherwise we have to close at 12 o'clock. Applies to all bars of course. Police touch millions every month. We call this ordinary blackmail. The money is distributed among civil servants from high to low. Maybe also deal with blackmailing Chris? Extrapolate this data to a national level!!!
I dare say that everyone pays if necessary to make the bureaucratic mills turn faster, or something like that. Even if you get into trouble unintentionally, and you can buy it off, you buy it off.
Have you ever been involved in a serious accident Cor, then you are happy that you can buy your way out (even if you are innocent), and anyone who thinks otherwise is lying!!!
I am fortunate enough not to have to buy off police officers, at least in the place where I live, if I get a ticket.
Nevertheless, I do not use that option, the two fines I have had have simply been paid, although the last one took some effort.
Speeding up administrative actions, etc. costs me nothing, it happens automatically.
And whether I like it or not, it just happens.
And yes, I am ashamed if I, number in hand, are simply brought forward.
I abhor this system.
And I don't use it, although I can't always avoid it because of family,
So Peter, I don't feel addressed.
Speeding up administrative actions, etc. costs me nothing, it happens automatically.
And whether I like it or not, it just happens.
And yes, I am ashamed if I, number in hand, are simply brought forward.
Hans
So you do use it!! Or do you stay seated until it's your turn according to your number????
@Peter,
I've never been called a liar in my life by someone who doesn't know me at all.
No, fortunately I have never been involved in a serious accident, but I do know people who have unfortunately been through that. The insurance handled everything neatly.
Let me ask you a question of conscience. Imagine you are a teacher and Boom is failing your exam like a brick. Boom has a rich dad who will call you after a while asking if you would like to change his grade to a ten for 100.000 baht. Would you? Honest answer please.
Cor,
Imagine you are a teacher and Tak has a bad grade.
Pa Tak calls, or comes by, and very kindly asks if there is anything to repair for a handful of 1000 baht notes,
What are you doing then?
And what do you do when you know that Pa Tak can destroy you if you don't take the handful?
I am a teacher at a university and have children of (very) rich parents and even well-known Thai (politicians, singers) in my class. When I have a new group of students (whom I haven't seen before) I make it clear that if they fail my course, they don't have to call their mom or dad or grandpa or grandma because they don't change the failing grade. The only way to change the point is to get a higher score on the next exam. Caught two 4th year students cheating two months ago. They are not graduating this year and I have not had any problems with them (or their network). But I've made it damn clear in advance where I stand.
chris
Dear namesake, Haha… you write beautifully, and it sounds beautiful too Haha, you are really the exception,… most (all) teachers are fired with this kind of behavior
dear Chris.
Fortunately, I am NOT an exception. Know from colleagues (foreign AND Thai) that this is more common and not just in my university. Things are changing at universities and for the better, with very small steps, by the way, but I cherish them. I consider myself fortunate that my network is of a higher quality and power than that of my director. I haven't had to use that yet. Working here is not only about doing your job, but also about power play.
other Chris
Dear Chris,
You write :
“I consider myself lucky that my network is of a higher quality and power than that of my director. I haven't had to use that yet. Working here is not only about doing your job, but also about power play.”
That's how it works of course.
But one day you will meet them anyway.
Children/family or children/relatives of very close friends of the head of the network who will join your class/school/university.
You speak of “my” network, so this entails obligations, and you will certainly be reminded of that if necessary.
You can of course show yourself to be a good team player and anticipate the situation so that adjustments do not have to be made afterwards.
In the other case, you will certainly become acquainted with the power play of your own network.
That's how it works.....
Dear Ronny,
It doesn't work that way in Thailand. Networks don't remind you what to do. You have to adopt a different way of life than you were used to in Nederlend. When I lived in the Netherlands, I never brought presents for colleagues when I went on holiday or for business abroad. I do that now because everyone in my network does too. But if you don't, no one in your network will remind you. You're just not a good man.
I do, of course, have to deal with attempts at patronage. However, if I (or my wife) receive gifts that we think are not normal (TV screens, gold) we return them - of course with an excuse not to let the giver lose face. (doesn't fit in with our interior, we already have it, we don't need it, maybe someone else is happier with it) or we ask if it's okay to give it to others who need it more. We value our independent and free will to say and think what we want more than material things. If you do this consistently for several months, the attempts at patronage will stop. And if you can prove that you win the Thai lottery every two weeks and that it's because you're trying to be a good person (and can't be bribed), everyone believes you.
chris
Yes yes – I know – everyone does it but we don't.
I also win the lottery every two weeks. Just buy 100 tickets from 00 to 99.
Then I will definitely win the lottery, and I can prove that, but whether I also won is something else.
To win the lottery every 2 weeks in a different way and to make a profit yourself requires manipulation and foreknowledge, but certainly not because you are trying to be a good man.
Even Mother Teresa couldn't do that.
Besides, I thought good people didn't gamble because isn't that something diabolical – the lottery…
(I'm not a pillar biter though).
Well I leave it at that and think my own of it….
hello Ronnie,
yes, some people don't want to believe it. My wife would say: up to you. However, the residents of my condo building are happy with us. We don't keep the numbers we buy a secret and sometimes that means others win too (if they buy the same lottery number, of course).
We buy an average of 1200 baht = 12 lottery tickets every two weeks. And have a price every two weeks. One time 2000, another time 8000 baht, two months ago once 100.000 baht. With my research background I didn't believe it at first but must admit that -believing in the laws of stochastic probability - I am amazed every time. Now learned that there is more between heaven and earth than just the western view of science (and prejudices such as manipulation and foreknowledge). Do you still have to find out, I understand from your response.
I'll leave it here too. Another draw tomorrow, so PRIZE !!!
chris
Chris last Sunday there was a column from Voronai in the BP that fits in very nicely with the given subject. An example is also given as you describe about fraud in exams.
In one example, fraud is discovered during an exam. This is rightly being addressed.
Afterwards, the person who discovered the fraud is asked why he had seen it. Because that was my job that's why I saw it.
That wasn't the answer he wanted, because why had he seen it. That was important!!! He should have closed his eyes. He was advised to take 7 days off because the candidate's family was still having some issues with him.
Cor wholeheartedly YES, As you write, the dad of tree is rich. A quick lesson in Thailand for you. Money is power, the father of can make your life hell, if you refuse Boom's father, he will lose face, and believe me, nothing is more spiteful than a rich Thai who loses face because of a falang, and here wants to I leave it at that.
Peter, congratulations. If you ever write another gibberish story about the problems in Thailand, I can hereby inform you that you are part of the problem.
Cor, you are pretending that I am accepting that 100.000 for financial gain, no, Cor, I am hanging on to life. My life is more important than principles!!
Yes, very well explained! This applies all over the world. We must not forget that corruption is the rule in the world and countries where this is not the case are rather the exceptions. Is corruption perhaps just something very human and of all times??!
I can't wait, Leo, for you to become a victim of corruption. When you and your family crash through a bridge, because it was built with a bit too cheap cement, and of which a 20% kickback was received by the local politician and money was skimmed off by that tax man. Just think about that. Do you ever read a newspaper?
Cor, your reaction to Leo is very harsh, but very true. If you look closely you can see it everywhere and they are not small projects.
Moderator: Your response is too generalizing.
Dear thalandblog readers. For quite some time now I visit this blog daily to follow the ins and outs in Thailand. Fortunately, I have already been to Thailand several times, and I will settle there within a few years, as part of my well-deserved retirement. But a layman, who wants to know something about Thailand, would just get the impression when reading some articles and reactions that everything there revolves around corruption, deceit and even fear of their own lives, with the result that several tourists go other places to look up. Admittedly, some things are out of the question. But is the cause not a little with ourselves, in general, without pointing out someone personally. Just an example about that student with his rich father. If I were in that teacher's place, I would in no way accept anything from the father to give his son a better point quota, but rather suggest that the son could take a re-examination within a set period. Remember that the loss of face, of the father, does not rest on the shoulder of the teacher, and that the responsibility lies with the student. This is just to briefly respond to the example. When I am in Thailand, I adhere to the established rules. Should we be here too? We are and always will be foreigners, no matter how you look at it. Besides, the government over there knows who you are when you're in their country. Rest assured, even if you don't see “them” they know perfectly who you are. And believe me, the way you behave yourself, that's how they treat you. I speak from experience. I did not feel like a farang there, but a person of the same community. Had been to an immigation officer once for stamp visa run. That man kindly explained to me how the fork was in the stem. No hassle with baths under the counter. Neatly followed the rules and the next day to Malaysia for a stamp. Made a nice trip. Wife and children happy and everyone happy. At our home, in Thailand, the slogan is : what we have not done today, we will do tomorrow ……….. if that is possible. ……. if not…… maj pen raj. Sawadeek bite.
The Dutch fingers are once again high in the air. There is condemnation and judgment of jewelest.
And as always, the world is not black and white but full of colors or many shades of gray. I also saved a holiday by giving money to an officer and another time I was able to board a fully booked plane by giving a bribe.
I also paid lower fines through bribes.
Whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter. You will achieve more in the short term by giving a little something extra….
My fingers are itching,… my mind says,… don't, but it's the fingers !!!! I must blame that, because you must be able to blame something or someone.
Corruption perception,….a whole explanation about,… what is !!! corruption, every man knows,… what is good or bad,… every man knows,.. what his left and what his right arm is and then further explanation is superfluous.
But corruption is inherent in humanity, like lying,…even a white lie
In the land of the "smile" it is the smile that smoothes everything, in the west "silence"
Then take your stand,… about something and a country that is “our country”. But not about a country where we are “tolerated”
i don't understand why farang pay so much attention to the so called corruption in thailand. In our own country it is not much different. Failed politicians who get interesting jobs, whistleblowers who are treated like rats, bank managers who receive a hefty bonus if they let the bank falter and the state (the taxpayer) has to pay for it, corrupt ministers who get a nice job after their career, corrupt bank managers who get a nice job with the government or the EU, you name it. This is apparently all accepted by the Westerner, who stumbles upon a police officer who wants to earn some coffee money to supplement his pitiful salary. Put your hand in your own bosom, I'd say. And if you don't like it here just go back home, with a little bribe it will be arranged in no time and everything will be back to how it used to be.
well….dear Thallay..
I think that Western foreigners in Thailand are so concerned about all kinds of practices such as bribery, blackmail, patronage and corruption because, in contrast to the phenomena you mention in the Netherlands, these nasty, illegal practices in Thailand:
– be systematic in government and business;
– Thai people we love have to deal with negatively EVERY day;
– they seem ineradicable;
– the elite in this country keep the other people poor and stupid;
– so-called democratic control is also in the hands of this elite;
– whistleblowing goes against Thai culture;
– the elite also blocks access to the knowledge and critical thinking of the poor;
– the ENTIRE country is therefore not making the progress it could make (not even for the already wealthy elite who themselves do not realize this due to short-term thinking and an eye for direct money gain);
– this country is only likely to become poorer as a result (some economists predict that Thailand is the Myanmar of the future)
– a lot of intellectual talent is lost as a result and with it human happiness;
– we are not waiting for a chaotic popular uprising following the example of Nepal. (The power struggle in the Red Shirts movement is ongoing)
I will substantiate some of these arguments in my next contributions.
Chris
Moderator: if you don't want a response anymore, you shouldn't respond either, because then it's chatting.
In my humble opinion, the difference is with Thailand and the Netherlands.
In Thailand everything is very visible when it happens (the corruption).
And in the Netherlands we know that it happens (behind the scenes).
But in both cases Jan with the cap is the victim.