Hi-So and Lo-So, social classes in Thailand
In Thailand status is very important. Thai society is highly hierarchical. Ranks and positions are for the Thai soon clear.
For example, an employment relationship is especially important for the status that the Thai can derive from it. Civil servants are poorly paid, but these types of professions are in demand because they earn prestige.
Even in the Thai language, hierarchy differences are indicated. The Thai language has personal pronouns that make it clear whether the person is addressing a younger or older person, but also someone of a lower or higher status.
This explains why many Thai people have little problem with certain forms of discrimination. Thai have quite simple thoughts about the social position you belong to. Someone with a dark skin works in the fields, on the street or in construction. A light-skinned person works in the office. So the dark-skinned one is at the bottom of the social ladder.
Your position in society is determined, among other things, by origin, position and financial resources. Thais therefore show off their wealth. Clothing and the car you drive are examples of aspects that are very important to many Thai people. During the enormous economic growth of the early 90s, Thailand one of the most important sales markets for Mercedes Benz. Despite the traffic chaos in Bangkok, many Thais prefer to drive to work rather than take the Skytrain. After all, a car is important for your reputation.
Hi-So
The upper echelon of Thai society is known as 'Hi-So'. This is derived from the English 'high society'. The Hi-So includes Thai nobility and wealthy Chinese-Thai families. Hi-So does not have to mean the lineage but can also have to do with wealth and appearance.
The economic growth of the late 80s and early 90s created many new wealthy people. These 'nouveau riche' formed a new group among the Hi-So. The Thai upper class mainly lives in and around Bangkok. The Hi-So is a rewarding topic for tabloids and gossip columns in the local media. The Thailand Taller is a magazine that focuses on the Hi-So. The magazine is full of successful, beautiful and wealthy Thai people.
Mid-range
The Thai middle class is also growing fast. This consists of highly educated Bangkokians who mainly live in the suburbs of Bangkok and work in an office in the capital. Remarkably enough, this group shows many Western traits. The Western ideal of house, tree, animal, is pursued.
Underclass
The lower class, the largest group, is formed by the agricultural sector. These Thais mainly live in villages in the countryside. Today, however, the idyllic village image is being cruelly disturbed. The young villagers flock to the big city driven by unemployment and poverty. They work as taxi drivers, construction workers or prostitutes.
Due to the massive uprising of farmers and the population of the province, who strongly identify with the political movement of a few years ago (the Redshirts), there is more political attention for this group. But the differences in development and prosperity are still huge.
Separation of classes
The Thai still maintain the separation fairly strictly. Intercourse with someone of a lower class is not appreciated. Marriage and choice of partner are determined by the social class to which one belongs.
The friendliness of the Thai towards tourists is largely due to the hierarchical structure of society. You have to respect someone from a higher class. A farang is white and has money, so is higher on the social ladder.
Bizarre as it may sound, middle and upper class Thais find it inconceivable and rather ridiculous for a farang to live with or marry an Isan woman. For a Thai, the social class is more important than the feelings you have for someone.
We, in the west, have been brought up with the idea that everyone is equal, regardless of skin color, origin or religion. To us, the Thai's ideas about the social structure seem strange, to say the least.
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In the West we have been brought up to believe that everyone is equal? Please realize that this is being taken to an extreme, especially in the Netherlands. For example, in Belgium, Germany and England (just to name a few surrounding countries) there is already much more talk of (higher) authority, and the relationships at work are already much more hierarchical. In England you still have a strong class society. I have also encountered this in many other Western countries outside Europe, both in work and private life.
The story about the different classes in Thailand is correct. But let us also realize that the Netherlands is an outlier in the other direction.
totally agree. At Lufthansa I am treated with all due respect. Often in England too, but it has become less after 50 years. My Dutch carpenter also waited neatly at the door until I said he could come in
Completely agree with you. When in the Netherlands teachers were already called by their first names, we in Belgium still spoke with Meester en Juffrouw. The U shape is also still widely used in Belgium.
This is also the case in France and Germany. Later, our staff never addressed us by first name.
There is also a difference in healthcare in Belgium. The ordinary citizen goes to the hospital for a consultation with the specialist, the person who can afford it goes to the doctor privately. This is probably also one of the reasons why there are fewer waiting lists than in the Netherlands.
About Hi-So and Lo-So,
I don't know what your experience is, but if you have a girlfriend in Thailand as a farang, the family rises in prestige in the village where they live. Something they apparently find very important, I sometimes have the impression that they completely walk past their shoes because they have a farang in the family. And based on what? What prestige are we talking about? If the farang is frugal with his money, he is soon called khi nie-jouw (stingy) and the family has a loss of face and secret laughter. I was once able to see that in a village further on where a farang was very busy. Don't blame him he worked hard for it right?. And loss of face, it seems, is the worst thing there is in Thailand.
But what about jealousy? If you have several farangs in a family/street/village, it will be fun. If one builds a house, the other wants it too, If one has a car, the other wants it too, If one goes to the sea with the family, the other wants it too. And all in a superlative way. My experience is that cousins of the Thai in question can be quite jealous of their successful cousin who has hooked a farang. Some try with all their might to surpass that by finding an even “richer” farang. But they do not realize at all that the farang in their own country is just Jan with the cap and often does not even appear in the quote top 1.000.000. I sometimes wonder how they feel when they arrive in such a faraway country.
Jealousy can take quite serious forms. They even go so far as to make up and spread all kinds of bad things about the other farang and his Thai, which eventually lead to quarrels within the family. As if money buys happiness? Not in such a case. It's only easy if you've had enough of it.
I sometimes miss the idea that one simply grants and wishes the other something from the heart. And that while this country is so full of giving in the hope that after your death you will get a better life and be rewarded for it. But apparently if you are at the bottom of a ladder in Thailand or in the middle or at the top it is allowed to look down on the other who has yet to start and may never get there.
You are talking about the lowest rungs of the Thai social ladder. Here, a farang in the family is another "advantage".
On the other side of the spectrum: Daughter of a 150-man factory was with a somewhat older (20 years age difference) white Ir. married. Daughter was silenced and not invited anywhere.
Son of a great industrialist… wanted to marry a lady of the same “character”. Sinsod of.. 200 MILLION Thai baht + some "little emoluments". Not even a wealthy white academic comes close to that.
I met a Thai business friend at the bank once. “Titirat, you look like a Christmas tree”. That's right, people shouldn't have the idea that I'm not wealthy enough.
With another business friend: never wanted to walk next to me in the city. “I am not a lady beer bar”, was her reply. So she always walked a few meters ahead of me.
Me and my Thai wife were in a Songtaew a few years ago, (A pick-up with seats in the back and often a roof against the rain.)
We got out and a Thai lady we didn't know also got out with us.
Her comment to my wife was: My farang husband doesn't have to be in such a songtaew. We have our own car. We have enough money.
It often seems that envy , money sigh, backstabbing. lies has become the new religion of Thai ladies. This also applies to the Thai population in the Netherlands.
All praise for the clear story about class society in Thailand. This phenomenon is happening all over Asia. In India they still think in castes and the feudal structure of eg Pakistan is still medieval.
A few more details:
– Thai civil servants do not earn that much, but they are paid during their holidays. They are insured against health insurance and usually their parents too. They have long-term contracts and they are entitled to a pension. Those are pleasant additions.
– Thais not only like to show off their wealth by displaying their wealth, which is an expensive hobby in itself, but they also like to show off how much they can afford to spend. That is an even more expensive hobby.
and indeed, in the Netherlands we are all supposedly equal, but people here are only too happy to have some money in hand, with which they feel more equal than others. “Our kind of people” and all kinds of social codes are also of great importance in the Netherlands.
An interesting topic to comment on. Why? Class, ranks and positions are always an interesting phenomenon for scientists (-lyes). Libraries full have already been written about it. I just think it's a pity that the reactions were mainly about Sek Loso and the like and not about the subject. The problem is: To whom should you compare? Western culture etc.? What is your own perception of it? What is your frame of reference (Marcuse, Fromm? and so many others). I often get the feeling that I often experience very subjective and narrow-minded about these kinds of topics and the reactions to them, which I enjoy reading. Because, again, with whom and what are you comparing? E.g. The Netherlands. Every normal thinking Dutch person thinks that there is a kind of class society. Just think of a theater visit. But where do you draw the boundaries? With a certain income/asset? Origin? Someone of nobility who has nothing to do with a penny? Or a hard-working, energetic, creative mind who has discovered something, has become rich as a result, yet is not accepted by the upper class/ Who are we talking about? I don't think you can simply divide society into three classes in Thailand either. Too simple. It is a large gray area that runs throughout society and fortunately this society has a "middle management", the backbone for an economic society. But you can't make a demarcation. It all blends together. Which intrigues me and I haven't found the answer or read it anywhere yet. What is the Thai system like? I mean this: I have been told that to be elected an MP must have a university education. So no democracy. But how are things in the country? When I drive or cycle through my residential area, I regularly come across billboards with people standing for election (ban). In the Netherlands, anyone can stand for election, municipality, province, etc. How is that in Thailand? What are the conditions? How is the system set up? I would like an answer to that, not speculation but factual.
Hello Peter,
Thanks very informative.
In Thailand I often hear the terms hi-so, low-so used so that's why I asked what the word for middle class was no one could tell me and I almost started to believe it didn't exist but in hindsight it came through the language gap.
By the way, you also get rid of it a bit quickly 🙂
What I know now is that lo-so and hi-so in popular parlance only refer to money as in rich and poor.
The terms for social class in Thai are:
chan tam – Low class
chan glaang – Middle class or Average
chan sung – Upper Class or Elite
By the way, I believe that social classes in terms such as poor, average, rich and elite do make a distinction in Western countries, including the Netherlands, even though many people would like to believe that this was not the case.
Friends in Bangkok were talking about MiSo, seems fitting to me.
By the way, they didn't know how the famous singer/guitarist Sek Loso got his stage name, and were very surprised when I referred to his origins. That was rather not known.
Had the Bangkokian friends ever eaten Japanese soup?
Because that's what everyone from the middle class eats (MiSo ;~)
When I visit good Thai friends (not the neighbors) I make a blow. In the Netherlands would have given a hand.
I also wave at the portrait of the king when I have to receive a trophy on a podium after a running race. I think this is crazy, but I don't know how else to deal with it. My fellow runners think it's beautiful anyway.
Last year a man was interested in my mother-in-law and wanted to marry her. A dowry was set at 20.000 bath due to the fact that the daughter has a falang. So I have considerable added value in the family, although my contribution is very small. My mother-in-law is 76 years old and therefore still has value. The man could not afford the dowry and is now invisible.
That's probably what your in-laws say, but it could be that the man just got offended because he normally didn't have to pay a dowry at all since your mother-in-law has already been married. A dowry in Thailand only applies to young unmarried virgins and that is really the truth, otherwise it is nope, go ahead. Kind regards.
Regarding Hi So and Lo So. Khun Peter, Cheers! Finally someone who hits the nail on the head. Many questions and discussions on Thailandblog suddenly become irrelevant and are answered when the reader understands your prose. I would like to add that what is written actually applies to all of SE Asia. I myself have lived in Indonesia for 10 years and it is no different there, as well as in Malaysia and the Philippines, countries where I have also gained extensive experience. Thank you for your clear articulation of this aspect of Asian cultures.
Does everyone remember the red shirt demonstrations March-May 2010? ? With nearly a hundred dead, a thousand wounded and thousands arrested? In that year thailandblog also started!
Two banners that were often seen and also hung over the stages were these:
1. กู เป็น ไพร่ koe pen phrai 'I am a serf' An ironic reference to the way hi-so feels about lo-so with the message: 'We won't take that anymore!'
2 โค่น อำมาทย์ koon ammaat 'Down with the elite!'
This means, as others point out, that a large majority of the Thai population no longer believes in the old hierarchical values. They are only adhered to by a small group up there who make it seem as if it is still part of that beautiful Thai culture called Thainess.
Ah yes, the banners.
And to put things as they are, the red shirts hobble after a group that has used only the voters to enrich themselves.
Also don't forget to mention that many Hiso clans see marriage with a farang or white person as a disgrace. They would much rather marry a Thai or at least a rich Japanese or Korean in an equal class.
In fact, Thai society reminds me a lot of western societies a hundred to a few decades ago…..We also had class division and the women had to look as white as possible…..The cars could not be heavy and big enough are…..the gold chains not long enough…..In the west we have largely outgrown this…..here one still has to learn and experience all that.
And later we had to be as brown as possible, because then you would be able to pay for a holiday to Spain. And when you came back from vacation white, something wasn't right
“Marriage and choice of partner are determined by the social class to which one belongs” That's right! A poor girl from the countryside can become the concubine of a more or less wealthy Bangkokian, but usually not much further. Marriage there is not really suitable for women to rise on the social ladder as in Western countries. Who was born for a dime…… That is why they seek refuge with the farangs. They don't care about that kind of distinction. Of course it also has its drawbacks. Wealthy Thais know that if one of their children marries into a poor family (which they really won't allow) the family will not only suffer a loss of status, but also lose money
After all, you often get a needy in-laws.
When the farang finds out, very soon indeed, it is usually too late.
I have been married for 15 years to a Thai from Isaan. We love each other very much and I wouldn't trade them for anyone else. My car is not a Mercedes Benz but a 16 year old Toyota. It still drives well and has never let me down in all these years. Then why should I waste money on a new one? Everyone is equal to me and I don't care about that status thing.
Your wife tells the same thing to her friends:
Been with the same man for 15 years, it's not a Mercedes but an old Toyota.
And he hasn't let me down yet, nor am I wasting money on it.
Just kidding Guido, fare you well, David Diamant.
Once in Laos we met a young Thai couple, clearly from the "upper" class. Because my Thai was only moderately fluent, we switched to English, a language that the couple turned out to speak excellently. Talked to them for at least half an hour. All this time they have not given my Thai wife a glance! Don't let them say anything to her. My wife also tried to join the conversation, but was ignored. Oh a mia farang.
I once read in a book on this subject that it can take extreme forms.
Example: two friends. One gets a lot of promotion, the other doesn't. then there comes a point when the friendship ends lest it become unseemly because of the difference in status. Both understand that.
Yet it is also the case with Europeans, just not in Europe. I lived and worked in Indonesia from 88 to 98 and of course it sometimes happened that a Buleh (farang) appeared at a drink with a native lady. If that was a developed business woman with good Dutch or English, she was soon accepted and included in the conversations. However, when it came to a lady of insignificant origin or education (usually “golddiggers” or barmaids) such a person was ignored. If you were asked for a reception at chic Javanese, you wouldn't think of appearing there with someone like that. That was really not possible. So big differences there too. After a while you get used to it, it also has its advantages. You no longer have to have polite conversations with types you don't really need.
I think my wife was just ignored because she kept it up with a farang. They didn't bother to find out who they were dealing with. They simply haven't exchanged a word with her. My wife also has a university background. The fact that she moved with a farang was enough to qualify her as "unsatisfactory". Incidentally, I think that the class difference, or if you prefer the difference in social status, is determined more by the size of the bank account than by intellectual capacities.
Never noticed that general development, for example, is appreciated by the Thais. After all, most of them don't even read the newspaper, let alone a book.
Incidentally, the commoners of the Isan divide the farangs into two social categories or classes: Farangs and farangs kee nok. If you are classified in the last category, you belong to the lowest caste in Thailand. Sometimes mastering the Thai language is enough to count you there! A rich farang doesn't speak Thai, does he?
Yes, Slagerij van Kampen, I understand your frustration, it is also sour to experience this. There are some things that ignorant farangs cannot imagine until they are confronted with them. Unfortunately, you cannot warn people about it, certainly not in the Netherlands, as I have experienced on several occasions. People look at you in a daze, they refuse to believe you and you can just be called a “racist” or “Nazi”. I threw in the towel a long time ago and avoid these kinds of topics at birthdays and parties. I also note that academically trained Thai ladies who pursue a relationship with a farang generally want to "go away" with that farang, so to Europe, Australia, USA, etc. Those ladies know flawlessly how they are viewed in Thailand and therefore " flight” an obvious option.
I think the strict division into social classes in a society like Thailand is the most important way to keep social inequality intact. After all: what do we need with the underlying class(es) See the castes in India. As in India, social mobility is difficult in Thailand. The risk of this, of course, is a possible emergence of class consciousness in the Marxist sense. The classes as each other's natural opponents. Thai thinking makes a Dutch “polder model” impossible. This may explain the clashes between the reds and the yellows.
The story is correct so far but I miss the power of money, bribing, buying titles and school degrees and diplomas. It means that especially in the Hi-so class there is a lot of 'fake'. I once worked in the Siemens agent's office and as he mainly served the navy with Siemens but I placed all the cell towers in every municipality and every government department, I was often taken to lunch with a high-ranking officer and learned from the owner about how such people had come to their position. Someone with a low-class military education, for example, marries a daughter of a wealthy family and then has the financial means to buy his 'stars' (career). This can also be done through contacts you have, which is called 'boyfriend politics' in the Netherlands. The mix of rich with an educated person of lower classes means that it is mixed up, but due to the high position ahead, they soon start to behave like Hi-so. I honestly look down on all that outward display. They're all human after all, and humans have weaknesses, so it's not all class and power you see. I do notice in my current environment where I live in a beautiful house that I have renovated that I do not own, that people ask me why I don't buy it. That question is only about status. If I am going to explain what a stuck borrowed capital costs without yielding anything, but I rent cheaply, so cheaply that the owner would earn his money back in less than 50 years and the house is written off. So it is much cheaper for me to rent than to buy and why would I still want to own properties at my age. To be honest, I don't mind classes and being myself, walk in flip flops, wear shorts and T-shirt but don't care what they think of me. I know who I am. Incidentally, I have the experience of being married for 10 years to a 20 years younger person from the poorest Isaan family, divorced, had girlfriends who were in education. NOW along with someone who has worked in a bank for 30 years whose whole family has big stores and a lot of land… I think I'm usually judged and accepted on personality and qualities. Not on money because I don't have that with a meager state pension.
I suspect when people know the amount of your old-age pension and the lack of possessions the Thai don't see you as high at all.
Perhaps they now think that you are an eccentric millionaire and act like it because of the fear of robberies and kidnappings. or that you are disturbed.
After all, a poor Westerner has no money to take the plane and vacation or even not work at all.
Even my wife does not show wealth to the outside world, because she is afraid that the grandchildren will be kidnapped or that more relatives will come to ask her for money.
Well, the Thai aristocracy is still too dominant in Thai politics and society!!
………the Bastille has not yet been stormed!
And then there are also a number of Thai who come from the Lo-So, ended up in the Mi-So and act like they are Hi-So.
For example, I follow a number of Thai ladies on Instagram, including some of the above.
Designer clothes and shoes, expensive dresses with a lot of cleavage so that the enlargements are easier to see, apartment of at least 25,000 p/m, eating every two days in a fancy restaurant, partying every weekend, a weekend in a resort every month, where they needing ten different bikinis, going on holiday abroad twice a year, etc.
I've never seen them work. I never saw a friend or husband either. But when they visit their parents, they turn out to live in a simple house somewhere in the Isaan.
I assume they put their profile on instagram for a reason.
If it's not for work, it will be for something else.
A clear and true article.
Fortunately, two kings in Thailand show that those hiding in hierarchy can also be bridged.
For example, the late King Bhumibol's mother, named Srinagarindra, was a daughter of a very simple market trader. She became a nurse and married Prince Mahidol, a doctor, in the United States where King Bhumibol was also born.
The current monarch, King Maha Vajiralongkorn, married four times. First time with his noble cousin, Soamsawali (together they had a daughter), then with an ordinary young aspiring actress, Yuvadhida (together they had 4 sons and a daughter), then he married Srirasmi, a palace employee (together they had a son), and finally with Suthida, a former Thai Airways flight attendant.
It is hoped that the good example of these two monarchs will reduce hierarchical differences in Thailand!
My wife also comes from the Isaan, she makes it very clear to the family that the costs in the Netherlands are much higher than in Thailand.
As a Falang you can tell how much you earn, but out of great fuss you don't tell what your costs are, the Thais think they earn a lot.
It is also the Falang's responsibility to tell them that it is not all sunshine.
After reading everything I still have one question. Am I Hi-So or Lo-So? According to my son it is all about money, and then I am now a Lo-So. I am not rich.
But when I drink a beer with Willem-Alexander I sometimes feel like a Hi-So and sometimes a Lo-So. People who don't know me then think I'm a Hi-So, people who know me then also think I'm a Lo-So.
But when I had a beer with a group of Phayaose farmers a long time ago I usually felt like a Hi-So but others thought I was a Lo-So. The farmers thought I was a Hi-So but others thought I was a Lo-So because I was hanging out with a bunch of poor farmers.
Help! Am I a Hi-So or a Lo-So?
Or does only my Lo-So heritage count?
A long time ago [55 years ago] I had an old colleague, the man who would teach me the practice.
Always had several one-liners for 'motivation'.
In a small pond you quickly become the biggest frog.
Two equals are never unequal.
Equal is a mountain that has been pushed smoothly.
Social life in the Netherlands at that time had more silent indications of where your place was in society.
Cities were architecturally designed for this, schools, at the right school, yes.
'Networking' 'education' determined the rest of your life. [and often still does]
Many Thais also suffer from the pressure of imposing their desired social status on each other.
There is also a word for something with complex at the end, and the question of whether it should be more or less
Since the 1980s we have become more 'equal' in the Netherlands and surrounding areas, I think, but not anymore when necessary.
In Thailand too, it will take some time before people wordlessly give each other a place on the social ladder.
Although your status as a foreigner here in Thailand can also go up and down like a yo-yo as an individual.
Recognize several comments on this thirteen year old topic.
dear tina,
It is not about whether you can call yourself hi-so or lo-so (there are many gradations in between, by the way), but in which category you fall according to others. Social classes are (ideally) constructs of categories of people with statistically significant differences between them, for example in the area of voting behavior and purchasing behavior: the imperfect precursor of the algorithm. They have a certain predictive value. The less social progress there is in society, the better the predictive value.
Let me limit myself mainly to the social classes in Thailand. In the Netherlands we have/had statements and sayings that referred to social stratification and the (im)possibilities to climb the social ladder:
– If you are born a dime, you will never be a quarter;
– Birds of a feather flock together;
– The devil always shits on the same pile;
– A small farmer or a gentleman farmer;
– Being born with a golden spoon;
– Crows and pigeons never fly together;
– It is what it is.
We all know that in Thailand there is a big gap between rich and poor and that the middle class is small in size. This makes us talk about a more rigid society where it is not easy to climb. But it does happen, as you often and like to describe people who have succeeded.
In my opinion and experience, Thailand is all about wealth/money and networking (who you know and who your friend is is more important than who you are or your own capabilities and competencies). Thais prefer to marry upwards: they prefer to marry partners from richer families or richer foreigners. In fact, every foreigner is richer than the average potential Thai partner. The expats with Thai partners very often marry downwards. And they don't care that much if their partner is considered a sweet, caring, reliable and attractive partner. A foreigner who marries a Thai ex-bargirl goes down the social ladder for the Thais. A foreigner who marries a Thai teacher or movie star goes up the social ladder. And don't say it doesn't happen because I know many examples.
Married foreign expats often find this strange and do not accept it so quickly. What difference does it make what my partner did for a living and how she talks and dresses? For Thais it does make a difference. People who are low on the social ladder have less influence on living conditions and on government officials. The fact that I myself was a lecturer at a university in Bangkok and that I know a number of administrators means that I still have respect in this small village in Isaan where I never need those administrators.
Tino, hi-so or lo-so it doesn't matter as long as you're not an a-so.
Hi-so or lo-so what's the difference?
Both have to poop, get sick, have worries and die, so….
FYI, my Thai wife lost her extended circle of friends once she married me.
Now that we are permanently living here in Thailand, there is no one looking at us. Apparently everything revolves around jealousy. I find this a bit sad for her. She must feel lonely but she doesn't show it.
Following on from this article, I think the following article is also worth reading.
https://fpc.org.uk/un-thai-lives-matter-thai-identity-politics-as-a-race-war/
This is a true article, TheoB! Everyone should read this! Thanks for that.
Many will not read this article because it is too confrontational. A few years ago Jan Servaes published articles about Thailand via Pala.be. This one is also very significant: https://pala.be/nl/artikel/van-thaise-glimlach-tot-grimlach
Thanks for the links, TheoB and Jadper! Very much worth reading!