MaJesuit muSiam: 1687

NaPiet van den Broek
Geplaatst mukati kumashure, nhoroondo
Tags: ,
August 14 2022

Pakunyora kwangu, ndakanga ndichishanda zvakare muraibhurari yeyunivhesiti yeAmsterdam, apo maziso angu akawira pazita rinonakidza rebhuku rekare revashanyi veThailand:

VOYAGE DE SIAM DES PERES JESUITES, Envoyés par le Roy […] ine zvinoonekwa zvemuchadenga uye zvemuviri, nharaunda, hydrographic uye nhoroondo. Amsterdam, 1687.

Ehe ndaifanira kuziva zvangu nezve izvi uye ndaive nebhuku rakacherwa kubva mumiunganidzwa akakosha uye ndakaita kuwanikwa kuti nditariswe. Iwe zvechokwadi haubvumirwi kutora bhuku rekare rakadaro kumba newe, kana chete kudzivisa kuedzwa kuti ucheke zvinyorwa kubva mubhuku, zvigadzire uye uzvitengese mumwe nomumwe muOudemanhuispoort!

Iri bhuku rakanyorwa nemumwe wemadzibaba akadzungaira, Guy Tachart, uye anotsanangura rwendo rwunoitwa nekambani ichimiririra Mambo weZuva kubva kuBrest kuburikidza neCape of Good Hope neBantam (Java) kuenda kuguta guru reSiam, iro maererano. kwaari ane zita rokuti Crung Si Aya Tha Ya. Izvi zvinoita kuti tidzokere kundima yatajaira. Muguta guru iri vanofanira kutarisana nemuPutukezi Constantin Phaulkon mudare reSiamese, uyo akanga ashanda kuna mambo panguva iyoyo uye aiva nechinzvimbo chemutungamiri wehurumende, saka murume ane simba zvikuru. Vanababa vakakurumidza kuona kuti vaisazokwanisa kuita zvakawanda uye vakagutsikana nokuchengeta maziso avo nenzeve zvakabatikana uye kudzidza zvakawanda sezvinobvira nezvetsika, tsika uye maonero echitendero evaSiamese. Guy anoshuma pamusoro peizvi zvakadzama uye zvinonakidza kuverenga zvavakaona, kunyanya mumunda wechitendero. Heano zviziviso zvishoma zvinozivikanwa nezveizvi.

Maererano naGuy, chitendero chavo chinoratidza kufanana kwakawanda nekutenda kweKaturike (zvechokwadi kutenda kwechokwadi chete kwaari nevamwe vanababa vake) zvokuti zvinenge zvisingadzivisiki kuti evhangeri yakazarurirwawo kuvaSiamese kare kare, asi kuti yakashandurwa uye yakasvibiswa nekufamba kwenguva nekusaziva uye nevapristi vavo. Muenzaniso wakanaka wekutendeuka kwevaJesuit vekare uye dhiraivha yekubatanidza!

VaSiamese vanodavira kuti kuna Mwari munhu akakwana, anoumbwa nomuviri nepfungwa, anobetsera vanhu kupfurikidza nokuvapa mutemo, achivaratidza nzira yokurarama nayo zvakarurama, achivadzidzisa rudzidziso rwechokwadi nokuvadzidzisa sayenzi inodikanwa. Guy anocherekedzawo kuti vaSiamese havafariri chero sainzi uye kuti vanongoda kuziva nezve ramangwana richavaunzira: kuti vaite izvi vanobvunza vazivi venyeredzi uye vanoita marudzi ese emamwe marudzi ekutenda mashura.

Holy Rosary Church pamahombekombe eRwizi Chao Phraya muBangkok (1887) - (Wild Alaska Ken / Shutterstock.com)

Mufaro waMwari wavo wakakwana bedzi apo anofa asina kuberekwazve, nokuti ipapo iye haasati achisiri chinhu chenhamo nenhamo. Vanhu vanogona zvakare kuve Mwari, asi mushure menguva yakati rebei, nekuti ivo vanofanirwa kutanga vawana hunhu hwakakwana. Iye zvino zviri pachena kuti Guy ari kutaura pamusoro paBuddha, asi chinoshamisa ndechokuti zita iri harioneki mubhuku rose! Kusiiwa kunokatyamadza, kana kuti kune chinyengeri cheJesuit shure kwayo?

Maererano naGuy, vanodana mwari wavo Somonokhodom, uye anotaura zvimwe zvinhu zvinonakidza pamusoro pemunhu uyu, asi izvo zvingaenda kure apa. Anotsanangura kuti sei chiKristu chisingazokwanisi kuwana nzvimbo munyika iyoyo: vaSiamese vanosema muchinjikwa waKristu nokuti dai Kristu akanga akarurama, kururamisira kwake uye kunaka kwake kwaizomudzivirira kubva mukurangwa kunotyisa kwaakatambura. hasha dzevavengi vake.

VaSiamese vanodavira kuti denga nenyika hazvina kusikwa asi zvakavapo nokusingaperi uye hazvizovi nomugumo. Nyika yakati sandara uye ine mativi mana akaenzana, inoyangarara pamusoro pegungwa uye yakakomberedzwa nemadziro akasimba zvikuru uye akareba zvinoshamisa. Kune denga negehena kuti rishande semubairo wechinguvana kana chirango chevanhu vakachiwana kusvika vazvarwa patsva. Vaprista vavo vanorangarirwa sevatevedzeri vechokwadi vaMwari, avo vane zvishoma zvokuita nenyika. Havambomhoresi munhuwo zvake, kunyange mambo pachake. Mitemo yekutanga yevatendi ndeiyi:

  1. kunamata Mwari neShoko rake, pamwe chete navaprista vake namamongi;
  2. usaba;
  3. kusareva nhema nekubiridzira;
  4. kusanwa doro;
  5. kusauraya zvipenyu (vanhu nemhuka);
  6. kusaita upombwe;
  7. kutsanya pamazororo;
  8. kusashanda mazuva iwayo.

Kana iwe ukaenzanisa rondedzero iyi neMirairo Gumi, zvinoshamisa kuti unopotsa murairo wekukudza baba naamai vako, inova musimboti wakasimba mutsika dzeThai. Kunze kweizvozvo zvakangofanana, kunze kwedoro hongu. Izvo zvakare zviri pachena, nekuti ruzhinji rwemirairo iyoyo runobva muidi rekuti munhu chisikwa chemagariro, mhuka yemombe ine hunhu hwakabatana. Iwe haudi mwari kuti afunge uye anyore izvozvo.

Kunyanya kunakidza pane kungotarisa kune imwe tsika kuburikidza nemagirazi ako pachako kutarisa kune imwe tsika kuburikidza nemeso emumwe munhu kubva kune imwe tsika uye / kana nguva yakasiyana zvachose (iyo yakanaka chaizvo chinhu chimwe chete)!

– Reposted postt -

26 mhinduro ku "Jesuits muSiam: 1687"

  1. Cornelis anoti kumusoro

    Ndatenda nekugovera zvawawana, Piet. Zvinonakidza kwazvo! Ko mashoko ebhuku rakadai haasati aiswa pakombiyuta neraibhurari kuti riwanikwe nevakawanda here?

    • Marc anoti kumusoro

      Chokwadi bhuku rakaiswa padigital uye rinowanikwa mahara pa https://books.google.be/books?id=vZMOAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=nl&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

      • Marc anoti kumusoro

        Dudziro yechiDutch yebhuku iri inogona kuwanikwa pa: https://goo.gl/3X7CYJ

  2. Tino Kuis anoti kumusoro

    Nyaya inofadza! Zvishoma zvewedzero.
    Constantin Phaulkon aive muGiriki kwete muPutukezi. Akaurayiwa pamwe chete nevateveri vake uye muchinda wekorona yeSiamese muna Chikumi 1688 sezvo mutsigiri wake Mambo Narai akange ave kufa. Kutsiviwa kuchigaro cheSiam kwaiwanzova nyaya dzeropa.

    Izvi ndizvo zvakataurwa naAbbé de Choisy, aive chikamu chekushanya kwevamiriri kuSiam muna 1685, akataura nezve Phaulkon (kubva: Mémoires pour servir à l'histoire de Louis XIV, 1983:150)[

    "Aive mumwe weavo vari munyika vane hungwaru, rusununguko, hukuru, kusatya, uye aive azere nemabasa makuru, asi pamwe aingoda kuve nemauto eFrance kuti aedze kuzviita mambo mushure mekufa kwake. tenzi, iyo yaakaona kuti yakanga yava pedyo. Aidada, ane utsinye, asinganzwiri tsitsi, uye aine vavariro dzakanyanyisa. Aitsigira chitendero chechiKristu nokuti chaigona kumutsigira; asi ndingadai ndisina kumbovimba naye muzvinhu izvo kufambira mberi kwake kwaisabatanidzwa mazviri”

    Somonokhodom ingangoita huori hweSramanan Gautama ('the Ascetic Gautama'). Bhudha ane mazita akawanda. Muzana ramakore rechigumi nenomwe, izwi rekuti 'Buddhism' rakanga risati rasvika kuEurope. MuchiThai, Buddha anonzi phráphoéttáchâo.
    Vafambi vekuEurope panguva iyoyo vanenge vese vaifunga kuti Buddha aive mwari. Kunyangwe iwe uchigona kufungidzira chimwe chinhu pamusoro peizvi pakuongorora kwepamusoro, hazvipokane mukufarira muono, kukwana uye kugona kwehungwaru kweava maJesuit. Pasina panikiro vaSiamese vakawana kutenda kwechiKristu sokudavira mashura kwakaenzana uko ivo vakarurama.

    • Jef anoti kumusoro

      'Jesuit trick' ishoko rekuzvidza rinoshandiswa nevashori vavo kune dexterity iyo hurongwa, hwakanga hwawa kubva munyasha, hwaifanira kuratidzira kuitira kuti vazivise chavaiona sechokwadi chechokwadi chisingaenderane ne (zvino) Udzvanyiriri hweRoman Orthodox, kungodzivirira kuomerwa nekudzvinyirira. Iri izwi rakashandiswawo muchinyorwa cheblog chekufungira zvisina tsarukano nekuti, sekutaura kwaita Tino Kuis:

      Mu 'Buddhism and Science: A Guide for the Perplexed', University of Chicago Press, 2009, munyori Donald S. Lopez Jr. rakafanana neichi: “Baba Tachard vane izvi zvokutaura pamusoro paBuddha, wavanonongedzera kwaari saSomonokhodom, kushandura kwavo mataurirwo echiThai epithet yaBuddha, Śramaņa Gautama, the ascetic Gautama:” (Mashoko echiNgezi anotevera anoda kufanana ne iyo yechiFrench-mutauro yepamhepo vhezheni yeJesuit report yakakurukurwa, yakabatanidzwa na'Marc'.)

      • Jef anoti kumusoro

        Madudziro emazwi ekuti 'Gautama' (Sanskrit yakazara: Siddhārtha Gautama, kana Pali: Siddhattha Gotama) ndeyechizvino-zvino pane 'khodom', asi kune vasingatauri Chirungu inotungamira mukududzwa kwezita iro risingadane neThai. Sezvo kune vaBuddha vanoverengeka mudzidziso yechiBuddha, kwakanga kuri kwomuzvarirwo kuti muJesuit adudze uyo akakurumbira zvikurusa, anokudzwa sa<em>quasi-mwari, nezita rake amene uye (soruremekedzo kana kuti kumusiyanisa namazita anobvira) rimwe remazita ake. . Kunyange zvazvo Testamende Itsva iine Muponesi mumwe chete, Martian ane chinangwa uye anongwarira asina kumbonzwa shoko rokuti “chiKristu” haaizochirondedzera sa‘Kristu’ asi kungoti ‘Ishe Jesu’.

    • Peter Sonneveld anoti kumusoro

      Thanks nekuwedzera Tino. Constantine Phaulkon aive zvechokwadi muGiriki. Zita rake muchiGiriki ndi Κωσταντής Γεράκης kana kuti Konstantinos Gerakis. Gerakis zvinoreva falcon muChirungu uye naizvozvo falcon muchiDutch. Handina kumbonzwisisa kuti sei zita rake rechiGiriki rakashandurirwa muchiRungu muSiam.

      • Peter Sonneveld anoti kumusoro

        Ruregerero nokuda kweshanduro isiriyo yezita rechiGiriki raConstantine Phaulkon, rinofanira kuva Κωνσταντῖνος Γεράκης. Nenzira, Mambo Narai akanga apa Constantine Phaulkon zita reChao Phraya Wichayen (เจ้าพระยาวิชาเยนทร์).

    • WHIMBO PALMS anoti kumusoro

      chinyorwa ichi chakadonha kubva kudenga, kuti chirambe chiri muchimiro. Ndiri mubishi kuunganidza zvinyorwa pamusoro penzvimbo yechiKristu muNepal. Ndinoziva kuti maJesuit akaita zvakawanda pakudengenyeka kwenyika kwa2015, asi mamwe masangano echiPurotesitendi anomanikidza kuzivisa chiratidzo chavo.Zvionere wega. Ruzivo rwese runogamuchirwa.

  3. Rob V. anoti kumusoro

    Ndatenda nekugovana, zvinogara zvakanaka kuona maonero akasiyana enyika. Ndotendawo Tino kune mamwe macomments.

  4. Henry anoti kumusoro

    Zvino kuti Phaulkon, aive nemukadzi ane ropa rakasanganiswa rechiPutukezi Maria Guyomar de Pinha, mushure mekufa kwemurume wake akava muranda mukicheni yeRoyal. Pesvedzero yake pakudya kweThai yakakura, nekuti anenge ese echinyakare echiThai madhirita echiPutukezi uye akaunzwa naye.

    • luc.cc anoti kumusoro

      Mamishinari aya haana kuwanawo KRK muAyutthaya here? Mutsvene Joseph?

  5. Ruud anoti kumusoro

    Kune vanhu vanofarira nhoroondo yeSiam, akawanda akadhindwa emabhuku anonakidza nezveSiam akaburitswa neWhite Lotus, iri muHua Yai, inowanzoshandurirwa muchiRungu.

    • Walterb EJ Mazano anoti kumusoro

      Mabhuku ari mushanduro akaburitswa neWhite Lotus, pakati pemamwe, basa rangu.

      Kuti urambe uri mumhepo, imwe pfungwa yeChristian inoda kuziva pamusoro penyika inogona kuwanikwa mune imwe yeidzo shanduro dzeChirungu: Tsananguro yeThai Kingdom kana Siam. Thailand pasi paMambo Mongkut, naMonsignor Jean-Baptiste Pallegoix, rakabudiswa muna 1854. Ndiyo tsananguro yakanakisa yetsika netsika muSiam kusati kwasvika kweiyo huru yemazuva ano pasi peHM King Chulalongkorn.

      F. H. Turpin, A History of the Kingdom of Siam kusvika 1770, yakabudiswa muna 1771, ndiyo imwe nhoroondo inokosha yezvakaitika kare—mumaonero edu okuMadokero, hongu.

      G. F. de Marini netsanangudzo yake Itsva uye Inofadza yeUmambo hweLao, mumwe mumishinari, yakabudiswa muna 1663. Izvo zvakare nezve talapoi kana mamongi uye mutauro.

      Tsanangudzo inokwana yeIsan inobva kuna Etienne Aymonier, Isan Travels. Northeast Thailand's Economy muna 1883-1884, yakatanga kubudiswa muna 1895 na1872 iine mamepu akawanda ane ruzivo rwakanyanya uye mazita enzvimbo.

  6. vhiri zvanza anoti kumusoro

    Inonakidza uye yakakosha. ChiKristu neBuddhism zvine zvakawanda zvakafanana. Ndanga ndichishanyira Thailand gore rega rega kubva 2003, makore gumi ekutanga pachinzvimbo chenheyo. Ini ndainyanya kugara mumisha mudunhu rePai. Ndakasangana nemamongi akawanda aitaura Chirungu uye naizvozvo ndakakwanisa kutarisa seri kwechiBuddha cheThai. VaJesuit zvamazvirokwazvo vangadai vakaona ipapo kuti vaBuddha havasati vachizogamuchira kumwe kutenda kupi nokupi. Izvi zvakasiyana pakati pemadzinza ari kuchamhembe kweThailand. Vanhu veko vanotenda mweya uye chechi yePurotesitendi inonyanya kushingaira ikoko. Ndaida kuti machechi aya nevaparidzi vawo vagare pamba. VaJesuit vaizvinzwisisa, asi vaKristu vemazuva ano havazvinzwisisi. Asi inoramba iri mupiro wakanaka, nekuda kwaPiet.

    • Jef anoti kumusoro

      Nguva shoma dzekupedzisira dzandakapfuura nomuPai (Chiang Mai mudunhu), ndakaona vakadzi vechiMuslim vakapfeka zvitema pamope; kunoratidzika kunge kune nzanga yakanaka kumadokero. PaChai Prakan pane imwe temberi yeChinese Shinto. Ndakashanyira temberi yekuChina kakawanda mudunhu reChiang Rai uye kunewo machechi echiKatorike echiKristu kuChamhembe.

      Animism inonyanya hunhu hweThailand yese (kunze kwezvingangoita mapurovhinzi ari kumuganhu neMalaysia nevazhinji vaMuslim): Kune vakawanda Thais, Theravada Buddhism muto wakapfuma usingashandiswe kunze kwewat uye kurapwa kwemamongi. Zvakare, semuenzaniso, kudengenyeka kwetsvimbo kufanotaura nezveramangwana muwat, makomborero eimba nemamongi, imba yemweya uye 'lak muang' (muguta remugodhi) ndeye animistic. Sezvinongoita maKristu kutorazve miti yeKisimusi, maBuddha akabatanidza animism, asi kazhinji pasina kuedza kuibatanidza mudzidziso dzechiBuddha kana kuti kuinetesa.

    • Jef anoti kumusoro

      Nguva shoma yapfuura dzandakapfuura nomuPai (ruwa rweChiang Mai), ndakaona vakadzi vechiMuslim vakapfeka zvitema chose, vakafukidzwa vakapfeka moped; kunoratidzika kunge kune nzanga yakanaka kumadokero. PaChai Prakan pane temberi yeChinese Shinto. Mupurovhinzi yeChiang Rai, ndakashanyira temberi pashure pemakore enguva dzandisingakwanise kusarudza kuti kudzidziswa kwemamongi kwevakomana varombo vedzinza reChinese ringave basa remagariro evanhu kana kuti seminari yakazvimiririra. Kare Buddha muhombe asati amiswa pachivanze chetembere, ndakanga ndacherekedza swastikas inokwezva meso (mavhiri anotenderera anofananidzira kuchinja kusingagumi nokudzokororwa) pamusoro pemasuo uye pamusoro pematenga edzimba. Kune zvakare makereke echiKatorike echiKristu kuChamhembe. 'Marudzi ezvikomo' akawanda anotenda mweya haana kumbounzwa nezvitendero zvikuru.

      Animism inoonekwa zvakanyanya muThailand yese (kunze kwezvingangoita mapurovhinzi ari kumuganhu neMalaysia nevazhinji vechiMuslim): Kune vazhinji Thais, Theravada Buddhism muto wakapfuma usingashandiswe kunze kwekutsigira 'chii' uye kurapwa. mamongi.. Zvakare, semuenzaniso, kudengenyeka kwetsvimbo kufanotaura nezveramangwana muwat, makomborero eimba nemamongi, imba yemweya uye 'lak muang' (muguta remugodhi) ndeye animistic. Sezvinongoita maKristu kutorazve miti yeKisimusi, maBuddha akabatanidza animism, asi kazhinji pasina kuedza kuibatanidza mudzidziso dzechiBuddha kana kuti kuinetesa.

  7. willem vree anoti kumusoro

    Zvakanaka kuwana uye kutenda nekugovana zvirimo. Ndichiri kutsvaga rimwe bhuku ndakabva ndaonawo iri:

    http://www.dcothai.com/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=1152

    Ikoko kungava kushandurwa kwebhuku rimwe chetero here?

    Kwaziwai Wil

  8. Joseph Mukomana anoti kumusoro

    Nyaya yakanaka, makorokoto. Mukuwedzera: kurongeka kweJesuit kwakanga kusiri murombo, sezvinoratidzwa nerwendo rwakatsanangurwa rwekuenda kuSiam. MuMiddle Ages, Chechi yeKatorike uye kunyanya maJesuit vakashandisa Tsamba IHS semonogram yavo uye unogona kuiwana pamafacade emachechi, makadhi eminamato nemaatari. Muvambi wehurongwa hwevaJesuit, Ignatius weLoyola, akasarudza mavara IHS sechiratidzo chake chechisimbiso. Tsananguro dziri kushandiswa pamabhii aya pari zvino ndedzekuti Isem Habemus Socium (Tina Jesu semufambidzani) Yaiva hurongwa hwakapfuma, kana husina kunyanya kupfuma, nokudaro mabhii IHS akashandurwawo kuti Iesuitae Habent Satis (maJesuit ane zvakakwana) kana saIesuitae Hominum Seductors (vaJesuit ndivo vanyengeri vevarume)

    • Jef anoti kumusoro

      IHS ishanduro yakapfupikiswa yechiLatin yechiperengo chechiGiriki chaJesu, zita iroro chete pasina imwe nguva. Nekuda kwekuderera, IHM (inopomera) uye IHV (genitive, dative) inowanikwawo muzvinyorwa. Kuturikira kwechiGiriki-chiLatin kwakaoma nekuti nekuda kwekungodudzira zvishoma kwe "mazuva ano" mukati meMiddle Ages, kwakabva IHS kwakange kusisanyatso nyatso zivikanwa, zvekuti marudzi ese e "tsananguro" dzisina musoro dzakamuka pakati pezvinyorwa. ane ruzivo nekusaziva, semuenzaniso 'Iesus Hominum Salvator' (Jesu Mudzikinuri weMunhu).

      The Franciscan Bernardinus wekuSiena (1380-1444) akanga atoparadzira zvakanyanya chiperengo 'IHS'. Rondedzero yevaJesuit, iyo yakavambwa bedzi muna 1534, yakatuswa zvikurukuru nomuenzaniso waJesu, nokudaro zita ravo. Mubatsiri wavo Ignatius weLoyola (1491-1556) pasina mubvunzo aiziva kwakabva IHS. Saka kufananidzira ikoko kwaiva pachena kwaari nevateveri vake. Nekuda kweizvozvo, IHS yakave yakafanana nemaJesuit.

      Mutemo wevaJesuit wakanyora kuti 'urombo' mumutemo wahwo (rondedzero yemabasa) uye naizvozvo inonzi 'hurombo'. Kwete nhengo, asi kurongeka kwaigona kuva nemidziyo. Paive nevazhinji vainzi ma'rich orders' avo nhengo dzavo dzaigona kuva nemidziyo yavo. Zvisinei, vaJesuit vose vakanga vari vaprista vakazara, avo naizvozvo vakanga vafunda zvakakwirira zvikuru kupfuura mamongi emamwe mirairo mizhinjisa. Izvi pachazvo zvinoreva kushamwaridzana kwakanyanya mumakirasi epamusoro. Sezvo vaJesuit vakagoverawo dzidzo yakakwana munharaunda yavo vamene, basa ravo rinokosha zvikurusa kunze kwebasa roufundisi (uye mumazuva apakuvamba zvikurusa kutarisira vanorwara), vapfumi vazhinji vakanga vafundawo pakoreji yeJesuit. Aya 'madenderedzwa arinani' aigara achipa kurongeka nerutsigiro rwakakura, saka hazvishamise kuti yakapfuma kupfuura mamwe maodha asina kunaka. Asi budiriro mukuwirirana nenhamba yemitezo yaiwanzova yakakwirira zvikuru munhevedzano dzakapfuma.

      Yakave hurongwa hwekunetsana kukuru nekuti kurwira masimba kwenguva refu kwakarwiwa kukereke yeCatholic: vatongi vezvematongerwo enyika vekuWestern Europe vachipesana naPope, vaigona kuvimba nemaJesuit. Vatambi vakaipa vakabva vashandisa zvisirizvo nemaune mavambo asingazivikanwe eIHS kuzvidza nekunyomba kurongeka, saJoseph Jongen pamusoro. Muna 1773 Pope akamanikidzwa kubvisa tsigiro yake huru, asi kunze kweWestern Europe murairo wapapa iwoyo wakafuratirwa uye murairo wakaramba uripo; Mushure meChimurenga cheFrance chakagadziridzwa zviri pamutemo naPope (1814).

      Nekuda kwemubatanidzwa wemaJesuit/IHS, IHS yanga isati yamboshandiswa kunze kwesimba ravo, asi Pope aripo, Francis, ane IHS mujasi rake remaoko. Ndinofungidzira kuti ari kutarisa kumashure kwaBernardinus wekuSiena.

      • Jef anoti kumusoro

        Kururamiswa: Mutsara wangu wokupedzisira wakanga wakavakirwa pazita rapapa raakasarudza, raizotarisirwa kumuFrancisca. Zvisinei, akabatana nesangano reJesuit muna 1958, zvichiita kuti ave muJesuit wokutanga kuva papa.

      • Joseph Mukomana anoti kumusoro

        Wadiwa Jef, "Vatauri vakashata vakashandisa zvisizvo nemaune kwaimbove kusingazivikanwe kwakabva IHS kuzvidza uye kuseka kurongeka saJoseph Jongen pamusoro" unonyora izvo chaizvo. Kunyangwe asingatendi kuti kuna Mwari haaseki kana kuda kugumbura chero munhu, izvo zvandinofungidzira kuti unoita.

      • geert barber anoti kumusoro

        Pope wazvino muJesuit

  9. northhillland anoti kumusoro

    Ini handizive zviri nani pane kuti IHS chidimbu cheIn Hoc Signo (muchiratidzo ichi).

  10. geert barber anoti kumusoro

    Ndakambodzidza kuchikoro kuti IHS inomirira IeHSus, asiwo ichthus, hove muchiGiriki chekare uye chiratidzo chaKristu mumazana emakore ekutanga.

  11. J. Drop anoti kumusoro

    Kune avo vanofarira, munofanira kuverenga zvakanyorwa mumhiko iyo maJesuit anotorwa vasati vava nhengo uye kubatana.
    Mhiko yeJesuit iri painternet. Nakidzwa nekuverenga.


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