Question of the week: Adultery or cheating?
We have all been able to read it in the various Thai media, Thailand has the highest percentage of “cheaters” in the world!
The survey showed that as many as 56% of Thai men have cheated or are still cheating. For Thailand connoisseurs, this is no news, just as everyone understands that Italy and France are also high in the Top-10. Perhaps surprisingly, Belgium also scores high. What do you say to that, those naughty Belgians! The Netherlands also participates nicely, but falls just outside the top 10 prizes.
What do those numbers say? Well, absolutely nothing to me because such an investigation is as unreliable as it can be. Who is going to openly advance that he sometimes cheats? If you're in a good relationship, you don't talk about it to anyone, right?
I thought a little more about this phenomenon. In the English text the word “adultery” is used. The English language does not actually have a good synonym for this word, while in Dutch we can use words such as cheating or adultery. There are other expressions possible, such as marital infidelity, cheating, a slipper, but for the discussion I will limit myself to the words cheating and adultery. I looked on the website “buitengaan-overspel.nl” (very interesting!) where these two words are used interchangeably.
I'm a bit in my stomach with the general view of cheating because I think that a distinction can be made between the forms of cheating. It is stated on that website as follows:
“Cheating is entering into a sexually oriented contact outside your committed relationship, which you know your partner would not accept if he or she knew about”.
Nowhere have I been able to discover whether there is a linguistic difference between cheating and adultery, but I feel that there is.
Let's assume that we (you and I) have never committed any form of cheating and that the partner in general does not want to hear about any distinction. In the following examples we are talking about a friend and I am concerned about what is socially (un)acceptable?
Example 1:
Someone who is neatly married in the Netherlands goes on a longer business trip to Asia and also visits Thailand. On a weekend he goes to Pattaya and enjoys the nightlife. A little too much to drink, laugh and then it happens. He takes a barmaid to his room, has a night of fun and when he wakes up the lady may already be home. Love or affection is not involved, he has sex and that's all. He probably doesn't even know the lady's name and besides, he wouldn't recognize her if you bumped into her on the street. I call that cheating or making a slip, I wouldn't charge him for that!
Example 2
The same man regularly comes to Thailand for work and as soon as he lands in Bangkok he calls his Thai girlfriend: “Hi, I'm back!” They live together, so to speak, all the time, go out together, have fun and, of course, have regular sex. He can talk to her because his own wife doesn't understand him (anymore). This lady companion is nicknamed “mia noi” in Thailand. In this case, sex is not something purely physical, but there is also a certain love and affection involved. That's what I call adultery. Here the man is clearly risking his marriage by entering into a relationship with another partner.
Do you also see differences in what I call cheating and adultery? In both cases the husband is unfaithful, he cheats on his wife, but is it equally reprehensible in both cases?
I am looking forward to your response!
Well you can add something to this event namely oath / promise breaker. Getting married usually means that one promises to be faithful to each other, hence the word marry. In either situation, the person flouts that promise. I would also like to include the female side of the story. Not only men cheat ;-). Furthermore, the mia noi (woman no. 2) situation is somewhat more complex. Because as far as I understand this is sometimes also known by the wife = mia luang (wife no.1). Well, it's all pretty complicated for a simple soul like me. I think you mean mia sek = secret love or just gik = sex relationship.
Yes, what is cheating if you have many acquaintances, it is adultery.555
I think adultery is a legal term that is only valid if you are married (nowadays also perhaps within a cohabitation contract).
Cheating is a sexual relationship with another person inside or outside of marriage.
Cheating is getting out of bed with the right leg.
When you get home, it might turn out that it would have been better if you had stayed in that bed with the good leg.
People sometimes act strange themselves. You don't commit adultery yourself. That's what someone else does. At least it sounds more serious. In fact, it probably comes down to the same thing, the difference is in the perceptive frame of reference.
In this context, the definition of a 'butterfly' might also be nice. I describe it as someone who has a fear of commitment, but does not suffer from it.
I describe butterfly as a butterfly that feeds on randomly good-smelling nectar-producing flowers 😉
Alex's definition appeals to me. The best thing is, if you don't want to have fun with the same partner all the time or want to avoid mandatory numbers, then don't enter into a steady relationship.
Then you don't have to worry about the linguistic differences. The question is, of course, how long you can cheat with the same partner. The strangeness will go off at some point, unless you do strange things.
I also think that the difference between cheating and adultery is especially important for football players.
Of course the men cheat or commit adultery for me it is a bit the same you cheat on your partner but don't forget the Thai women as soon as money is involved they are not averse to it and just do something different or another. to take.
I never cheat, I always introduce myself first
Then ask her a few hours later if she remembers your name. Bet not?!
Oh. Most Thai ladies I know cheat or have cheated, with a few exceptions. Only when they do it then it's usually shhh..... When they find out that the partner is doing it too then suddenly the house is too small 😉
An ex girlfriend of mine once said, if you take a mia noi when I'm old, it shouldn't cost too much money.
My ex (not Thai, a Brazilian) was one of those... when she cheated, it didn't mean anything and I shouldn't be acting like it, but once I spent a night in Thailand unprotected with a Thai beauty and I was home anyway but had an Aids test done, which she accidentally found, the house was too small and I was a pig and a murderer, endangering everyone in the family!
I'm going with Gringo's view in examples 1 and 75. I do take with me that it is made very easy for everyone in Thailand to have sex. If people consciously try to make a slip or commit adultery in their own country, XNUMX% would not even succeed. In Thailand, a flirt is enough to have a night of fun and there is money in return. In most cases it is just paid sex and seen in that light the label adultery etc is too weak an expression in my opinion.
No matter how you look at it, sex is never wrong. And isn't there a study that has shown that both men and women lie. So it is everyone's responsibility. I therefore like to leave labeling to the partner if he is already informed. A Mia Noi always has the expectation of becoming Mia Luang one day.
Is the Netherlands so different from Belgium? I did not participate, but know as everyone, where to easily find a (also married, divorcing or divorced) fling. A large establishment less than fifteen minutes' drive away has had that reputation for at least forty years, with an audience of mainly people in their thirties and 'middle' (mid-life crisis) age: a discotheque/nightclub that has always been slightly old-fashioned but never outdated. In the first six or so years it had to be moved after a fire, temporarily even in a tent. The thirty-forty staff members do not yet indicate a diminished interest. 😉 There are more occasions here and there.
The words adultery, cheating, making a slipper don't make any difference to me, I have to look for a better choice of words.
I do agree COMPLETELY with the distinction you make between example 1 and example 2.
Example 1, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, absolutely nothing! A partner who falls over this is unnecessarily possessive, jealous, selfish, and has no sincere love feelings for his wife/girlfriend.
I would leave out the atmosphere of being drunk, because this should also be possible if you are normal and healthy and sober.
Example 2, on the other hand, is totally reprehensible, underhanded, lying, dishonest, wrong.
This way you don't take care of your relationship and you are a flat opportunist who doesn't give a damn about his or her relationship. Usually the kind of cowardly guy who does that to his partner.
For the men among us : I think that example 1 also applies to our women, they also have the right to sex without further meaning.
What makes the linguistic difference? The main thing is that it tastes good!
My hobby from time immemorial is going on holiday with and without a wife. Since my retirement, the bear has been completely loose and I go 3 times a year and can also afford it very easily. My wife is severely depressed, has difficulty walking and a few other illnesses , Had this been different, we would have long ago moved somewhere in a warm country. Unfortunately bad luck ….. if I'm not on vacation say 9-10 months a year I take good care of her that she lacks nothing, if I go on vacation alone I take good care of myself because you only live once! So what do you call it then? Adultery, cheating or therapy??
I fully understand your situation and I do not find it objectionable in any way.
I would call it “therapeutic cheating”, ha ha!
In Belgium, 'adultery' was removed from the criminal law. It was, of course, a term for any extramarital sexual contact within that. In common parlance, it was and still is the case of sexually 'cheating' the marriage partner.
The 'mia noi' is also a well-known phenomenon in Belgium (and France, I would think): the mistress. That secondary committed relationship may be kept secret for the sake of jealousy or for the sake of the marriage partner's dignity, but it may be publicly known from others with some polite discretion, with the knowledge of the marriage partner. In the latter case, being able to keep the mia noi / mistress (financially and/or especially at a somewhat older age due to prestige) is often a kind of status symbol.
A slipper is 'cheating', a one-time or short-lived 'slipper', an 'adventure'. The assumed long-term partner may just as well be a fiancée or a contractual or non-contractual cohabitant. Whether one can call this 'cheating' or 'adulterous' depends on the relationship with the so-called permanent partner. If those slippers occur quite regularly, you have that butterfly. It is not because one eats out of the house very occasionally or fairly sporadically, that one does not value a regular cook and cooking art above all else or will not protect it at all costs. Loyalty to the steady partner is about much more than just sexual fidelity, and can prove to be unconditional even without the latter. However, it is never very nice to learn that everyone has known about a sexual relationship or regular slips for a long time, the moment one first hears about it: That is a gross insult.
I had a mia noi in the Netherlands and betrayed by someone who saw us together. Both ladies then came to blows and then it was over. (Except secretly) My mia noi had returned to Thailand and a year later I went to visit her. My (Thai) wife did not accept that and came a week later to take me back to the Netherlands. She was supported and helped by her brothers who themselves have several mia nois and gigs and that is allowed according to my wife, because her brothers have money, filthy rich by Thai standards. It's all about money!!
I can be brief about this, the Thai invented the concept of “Mia Noi” and use it extensively, and this is also completely accepted!
However, if you are married to a Thai and if you make a mistake, she has no understanding at all because you are a Farang and then those rules do not apply!
So what is mutually accepted does not exist in a multicultural marriage, because then the turnips are really done.
Contradict me, but I have noted this from my own experience!
Peter's statement “A Mia Noi always has the expectation of becoming a Mia Luang” is not correct. That applies to the secret mistress and the chance sometimes turns out to be realistic. That mia noi / mistress can be a threat to the marriage. If the extramarital relationship is more widely known, everyone knows and accepts their place.
In addition to the common models and their social acceptability, some well-to-do ladies sometimes keep a man on hand. The phenomenon of the younger gigolo who pleases the ladies well over middle age is not non-existent in Belgium, but rarer than I tend to think of Italy. But some of today's dynamic business ladies have relationships that turn their twink into a male mistress. I don't know a word for him yet.
KhunJan1, own experience is not a general standard. A few times I saw the Thai wife of a Thai proceed to very furious hand and stamping with the Thai mia noi. Another came to my wife to cry quietly, and the mia noi has been living right next to the mia luang for years now in a kind of two-family house. The Thai man actually resides with the mia noi, but the wife of course remains married and regarded by everyone as the mia luang, and both ladies have a good relationship. A few farang were also apparently allowed to have a fling from their Thai wife (another nice word: that could be the adventure itself, or the bedfellow m/f that was picked up or kept a little longer, by the way, possibly from an unmarried/non-married person). cohabitant).
I don't know how my wife would react. We have just been officially married for 20 years today, and she said several times in all that time that I should go to Pattaya or something because she would stay with her family a little longer so that she could devote herself 100% to them. Never tried anyway (friends of mine have and some with success), for I fear it would jeopardize her firm confidence in my long-term fidelity, and she might not dare to wait for the outcome and to keep the honor to yourself.
Wonderful statement by Gringo. It would be instructive to delve deeper into the cause.
In any case, the two examples are striking and realistic. In Belgium, cheating is also called "peeing next to the pot". Adultery is a legal term but in principle it comes down to the same thing... it's a bit like : when pissing became pissing started!
There is a lot of talk about the “Mia luang and Mia Noi” here, but apparently people forget about the “Mia”.
As far as I have understood and been explained, there would be a connection between the statement: I am the Mia Luang and or the Mia Noi of … If one speaks of a Mia Luang, this would automatically mean that there is also a Mia Noi. By the way, you can hardly be number 1 if there is no number 2 or 3 …. is.
A fact is certain: as long as it is not known, then there is little going on and it is simply accepted.
However, if one digs deeper into the philosophy of Buddhism, which also has multiple versions and no concrete science, then "cheating" would be philosophically acceptable and could even benefit the harmony of marriage. This is for both men and women. Buddhism is based on luck and if you are happy with that situation there is nothing wrong.
ppppppppppffffffffffffff what a happy person Lung Addie is as a bachelor in Thailand, can only be accused of being a “gik” in the worst case…. and then it has to be understood first.
Lung addie
To me, adultery or cheating are the same thing. I understand that it is sometimes difficult to resist it (offered) when it is presented to you on a silver platter. After all, the man is (they say) the hunter.
But if you have a good marriage, you don't need that. I wonder how you would feel if your wives did this. Are you really that open minded? Or do you actually want an open marriage that (maybe) your wife doesn't want?
Inge, it is not difficult at all to decline what is offered, I think it is simply unnecessary to do so (linked to strict rules that you have to impose on yourself and each other).
And sorry, but I think it is really a completely wrong statement that if you have a good marriage you don't need it.
What woman or man dares to claim that she or he can offer everything possible? No one, and you don't have to.
I'm not a superman and you're probably not a superwoman, and even then.
It's about sexuality, not love and certainly not with whom.
Listen to the song, "dear my dear" by Robert Long, he got it like no other!!
And yes, I am open-minded and so is my wonderful wife, that's how it should be, we think.
That is love.
So we all assume here that all this is done in a responsible manner?
No one here is talking about the safety risks that unprotected sex may entail.
Would the woman be less shocked if it was just a "slipper" and not "cheating" after being unexpectedly stuck with an STD or even HIV by her husband?
A friend of mine ended up in the situation where, after one slip too many, he contracted an STD. Unfortunately he was married. I never knew whether he told his wife in time. The fact is that they were divorced a year later.
Now everyone must know for themselves what they are doing. I don't interfere with that. I just wonder if you
love your wife girlfriend or girl how you come home then. You kiss her on the cheek
What you think at that moment. I personally would consider myself the biggest asshole in the world
You betrayed someone who loves and trusts you. Someone you love, that's what you do things for
and leave things to you. So I just don't think so.
Let some guys tell me how they behave and what they do when they get home
How they feel. no fear, no one will respond
That's the other side. The not fun side of the slippery thing. But that's us men talking
of course not about
Greetings to all, Keith
Kees1, everyone decides that for themselves, but I think that too many people (including you) make too much of a state affair about sexuality.
It is actually no more or no less than playing a game of football, going to the toilet, or taking a walk in the woods.
If you can assume that, then nothing is wrong, right?
Being in a relationship (I have been very happily married for 15 years) means that you have to take responsibility, that you have to be there for each other, that you are honest and sincere with each other, etc…
It does not mean that you are each other's property and are not allowed to enjoy yourself individually.
It would be unfaithful if I dropped my wife if she ended up in a wheelchair tomorrow due to paralysis, not if I "just once" get involved with a complete stranger!
Under the guise of 'loving', the biggest nonsense is sold.
By the way, look at reality, then you know enough. They are cheated and lied to that it's a sweet lust, people want to meet their needs.
You can do that with the utmost respect and coming home doesn't mean a kiss on the cheek, why should that?
Adultery, cheating it is reprehensible in both cases.
To me there's no difference if you're married you keep your tools in your pants.
If the marriage is not ok then you talk to each other or you stop.
A big advantage is that you don't have to cheat or commit adultery.
I think there is quite a generalization here about that “mia noi”. My Thai partner got divorced after she caught her husband with another who already had a baby from him. She no longer needed a man and it took some time before I had her attention and her trust. Whether I was falang or not didn't matter. I was a man and by definition unreliable. However, she was once also the “mia noi” because she has a stepdaughter who was 6 years old when she married her ex. I have decided wisely never to inquire about it. 🙂
I think that the frequent cheating of the Thais is mainly due to the fact that so many relationships are only half relationships because one of the two has to go to work hundreds of miles from home and moreover hardly has a holiday to go home, do they want to? tackling poverty.
It all remains very strange, but now admit it, what bond do you have if you are only together for 365 days of the 15 days of the year. It is a very wrong situation in the vast Thailand. However, I do not understand the fact that the Thais so easily leave their children behind when things have gone wrong in the relationship and do not have any responsibility (read maintenance money) for it. Moving and starting over with children at the “mia noi” is the most normal thing in the world. The men have apparently found a way to keep smiling. Leave the past for what it is and look at a bright future. Could that be the secret of “the land of eternal smiles”?
Dear Patrick,
your response was a good starting point to take a closer look at the fact that Thailand scores so high in the field of cheating or adultery. So they score high somehow. This was the first sentence in my response: “going deeper into the cause could be instructive”.
Gringo, you have scientific research to do again. The Thailand blog reader is eagerly awaiting your expert research.
Lung Addie
Both are equally bad to me, and there is no extenuating circumstance. Once happened no longer to be trusted and no longer worthy of being married. Divorce is the only healthy solution.
Not even a mitigating circumstance let alone justification. Anyone who ever cheated and stayed married, or stays with someone like that, is always unhealthy… I think staying married to a fundamentalist can be even more unhealthy.
Dear Pat
I don't make sex a state affair, that's not stated anywhere in my response.
I like sex. I even like it more than football or going to the toilet.
I therefore advise everyone to do it as often as is reasonably possible.
Coming home doesn't mean a kiss on the cheek. why not? it shouldn't be that each greets his partner in his own way. If your partner feels the same as you state here, that's great. When you get home, tell her that you had a great time.
I don't think anyone would object. Me neither.
But 9 times out of 10 it doesn't go that way, you indicate yourself that something is being lied to and cheated on. If you've been buttocked and you can't or don't want to tell your partner
Can't you say that you are honest and sincere.
Loving caring about each other being friends call it what you will
It's not about whether sex is good or not. We all agree on that
If it was dirty, we wouldn't be having this discussion
That's what it's all about in my eyes. you like sex so much that you are willing to lie to
your partner if you don't mind. I think you have a relationship of nothing.
This is not personal Pat means but my way of explaining how I feel about it
Sincerely, Keith
Kees, totally agree now.
The reprehensible thing for me is also lying and cheating, which is the real form of infidelity/cheating/adultery.
If I said that sex is the same as playing ping pong, going to the cinema, or drinking a chocolate milk, then you should indeed behave like that and not do it sneaky and sneaky.
For us, the real love in a relationship is being able to let go of each other, talk openly and honestly with each other, and always be there for each other.
Secret or even an open double relationship is not healthy either, it will not work in the long term anyway.
You have to make choices.
But from time to time, if there is a need or an opportunity, making love to a strange person might even benefit many relationships.
Our thought.
Conclusion : too much is talked about and too little done about it !
Dear Ron
You cannot know that too little is being done.
As I wrote my last comment, I was asked if I felt like a game of football
I'm always up for that. It was a draw 1-1 I'm happy with it!
Greetings from a busy Kees
An active sex life came to an end because of my partner's health problems.
This led my partner to offer me to take my sexual pleasures elsewhere every now and then.
That's what I call an offer of love and understanding.
I did not take advantage of the offer, out of love, understanding and respect, by the way, it was bearable, fortunately everything is fine now.
Everyone can decide for themselves what they think is right, can handle, can process.
Can imagine that adultery, cheating, a slippery slope can be discussed if a relationship is already dead, but is still continued for all kinds of reasons, practical, religious beliefs, etc.
I was married for 36 years and my ex was never short on sex
I lived in thailand for a year and a half when he left me for a barfly he got a lot less from.
it's not just the thai men or women who are cheating. hear my ex is just dutch.