Thailand has many types of visas, for tourists, residents, pensioners, students and a few more. Each visa application has its own rules and requires different documents. It would be good in many ways for Thailand to simplify that rice pudding of visas, but it doesn't look like it for now.
That is a given and it would then be nice if the visa rules were also implemented consistently and according to the rules. In practice, unfortunately, this sometimes proves to be lacking. I am not talking about embassies or consulates, but mainly at regional offices of Immigration.
I cite some examples:
1. Recently in Phuket there was some consternation over the application of the income rule for a “retirement visa” for couples. If one of them (usually the man) applies for or wants to extend a retirement visa, he must show his bank book and/or document income. The other half of the couple can then acquire “follower” status. The bank account, on which the 800.000 Baht must be deposited, must be in the name of only the applicant. If the couple has a joint account: Mr. ….. and/or Mrs. ……, then the double amount, namely 1,6 million Baht, applies. That is the rule, but in Phuket the latter was applied smoothly, the 800.000 Baht was sufficient. Now Immigration in Phuket has tightened that rule and announced that everyone will be held more strictly to the official rule. This therefore applies to Phuket, but it is quite possible that this rule will be dealt with flexibly elsewhere.
2. For students there is the “Education visa (ED), which, however, is issued inappropriately and especially inappropriately. Someone reports to a language school, for example, which arranges an annual visa without any problem, but for a hefty fee. There is no control over whether people actually study, although it was recently reported from Phuket that Immigration is planning to carry out checks, because the number of ED visas is skyrocketing. I know several people who have such a visa, but have never attended the lessons of the school in question.
3. Pensioners with a retirement visa must submit a statement from the embassy about their income. Here in Pattaya you can have that income statement drawn up by the Austrian consulate without any problem, but with proof of course. From Nongkai I have read that the income statement must be submitted in the Thai language (and legalized).
4. A good acquaintance of mine had a visa (which I don't know exactly), which was about to expire. He would have to make a visa run and then get a 14-day entry permit again or he would have to go to the Thai embassy for example in Kuala Lumpur for a new visa. He hesitated and presented his problem to an official in the Immigration office. He was offered a 3-month visa for 10.000 Baht. He accepted the offer and his passport was stamped with the necessary stamps after payment, which took place in the office, not in a back room or something. Of course he did not receive a receipt.
Numerous other examples are possible of how differently Immigration offices interpret and enforce the rules. That is not good, because regular visitors to such an office can suddenly be confronted with a change in the application.
The statement of the week is therefore: Thailand, there are rules for granting visas, so apply them consistently to the letter!
What is your opinion? Join the discussion on this topic and give your reaction.
About this blogger
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Bert Gringhuis (1945), born and raised in Almelo in the beautiful Twente. Later lived for many years in Amsterdam and Alkmaar, working in export for various companies. I first came to Thailand in 1980 and immediately fell in love with the country. Been back many times since then and moved to Thailand after my (early) retirement as a widower. I have been living there for 22 years now with my somewhat younger Thai lady Poopae.
My first experiences in Thailand as a kind of newsletter sent to family, friends and acquaintances, which later appeared under the name Gringo on Thailandblog. Many, many articles followed those first stories and that has grown into an almost daily hobby.
In the Netherlands still an avid footballer and football referee, but the years are starting to tell and in Thailand still avid, but the pool billiards is really of inferior quality, ha ha!
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In Hua hin there was a lady who wanted me to pay 30.000.- for overstay, I had been in the hospital.
She had nothing to do with that, she told me, I was too late and she stuck to that.
The amount was a maximum of 20.000.-.
There always had to be a tip.
Now that I go to the counter with someone else, this official is really angry if I only give him 1 satang.
They are both in the same office.
Especially at the regional offices of Immigration, issuing visas is part of the corrupt culture. You can arrange everything here, as long as you put a (considerable) amount under the table. No money in the bank or income statement? An extension of stay can be arranged for 20.000 baht through a senior official. You can even do that with a visa exemption, but then it costs 5000 baht more. It is therefore not a question of consistently applying the existing rules, but of preventing officials on Immigration (police officers!) from enriching themselves at the expense of the government and foreigners. A matter of wishful thinking…
The granting of a visa throughout the world is a courtesy, not a right, and while the courtesy is almost always granted, it can be refused even without further explanation. There are a number of basic conditions, but each immigration office (and the embassies too) can deviate from them at will. So I do not believe that the rules can be applied consistently at all immigration offices throughout Thailand, however desirable.
I give an example about myself, with a pleasant outcome. I used to go to Mae Sai, where you can do the 90-day notification by mail. I moved to Chiang Mai and sent three letters, the last one registered, for the 90-day notice to the immigration office there. After two months I received a letter: I had to report in person (rule in Chiang Mai). I was forwarded to a nice female immigration officer who called me 'loeng', rebuked me ('don't do it again') and gave me the 90-day note. I didn't have to pay a fine. Sometimes deviating from the rules is nice.
dear tina,
You love Thailand just like me.
It has more deviations in the regulations depending on the person with whom you have to arrange things.
A good honest smile works wonders.
Your contributions to this blog are usually heartwarming.
A good greeting from Danny
Thank you Danny, your compliment does me a world of good. That immediately gives me the opportunity to tell another story, to put all those comments about corruption into perspective.
In my first years I had a marriage visa and traveled with my then wife to Chiang Khong (I can't anymore). I think it was the second time, after everything had been arranged, my wife nudged me and said: 'Give those people another 500 baht for the trouble of eating'. I did, you can't refuse your wife anything. But the immigration officer, I can still see him, a short fat bald man, handed the note back and said, "You don't have to, we're just doing our duty here."
Sorry for chatting.
Dear Gringo,
If you know Thailand a bit then you know that nothing in this country is consistent.
I think that is also the charm of this country and is therefore also found attractive especially by the people of over-organized countries.
You happen to mention the rules of the visa, but you could also think of the helmet behavior, the commodity law, the closing times, the building regulations and a thousand other examples.
People who long for certainties, guarantees or consistent behavior should stay in the west.
Thailand lives day by day and tomorrow is a bonus.
Beautiful… so different.
greetings from Danny
A private experience
In November I had to have a new passport my old one expired so I took the old and new one to Hua-Hin Immigration with the letter from the Belgian embassy plus all the necessary documents for a new annual visa as this is now the law to have a passport that expires before your annual visa expires you must have a new visa made. This was not necessary 500Bath and my visa was transferred from the old one to the new one. Didn't receive an invoice
I completely agree with Danny, Pim and with the statement as well. It should and should be the same everywhere. It's not that, we know that; and change something we can't get done; and that it becomes the same everywhere in Thailand, we no longer experience. But I also see that, for example, Pim takes a tacky approach. That's how I do it. A Thai official wanted me to pay 16.000 Bht for a 3 month extension because the required 400.000 Bht. not only in my name. I'd rather fly home then, I told him.
We love to talk about corruption in Thailand and act as if it only happens here. Then something to think about. In Germany in 2009, the BKA (Bundes Kriminal Amt in Wiesbaden) uncovered and charged approx. 4.700 (four thousand seven hundred) cases of corruption in politics and business. In 2011 there were 49.400 (forty-nine thousand four hundred). And it is, according to the BKA, just the tip of the iceberg. Long live world-wide corruption. Have you forgotten that the French ex-president Giscard d'Asting came back from Africa with a bag full of precious stones? They call it a gift among friends. Well then cheers. great martin
Top Martin cites that in Germany in 2009 the BKA uncovered and charged 4700 corruption cases.
Interesting to know how many were convicted.
But, and that is the question now, how many cases of corruption have been uncovered and charged in Thailand in the same period.
And also interesting, how many have been convicted.
I have the impression that the difference between Germany and Thailand will be quite striking.
Of course, corruption occurs everywhere, not only in Thailand or Germany, but also in the Netherlands.
But, and that is of course the rub, what happens to it?
Dear HANSNL. I am sure there is a difference. The conviction rate will be higher in Germany (less commutable). I completely agree with you there. But you see that in 2 years in Germany it increased from about 5.000 to about 50.000. Even prison sentences don't deter costume wearers. It's computably delict. How high is the bet and how high is the profit and how do I check the consequences (in advance) if things go wrong.
What I especially wanted to point out is that corruption takes place all over the world and is not a privilege of the Thais. We expats would care less about the corruption in Thailand. Thailand already had corruption when we polder residents did not even know that Thailand existed. great martin
Look at the past, present and future of Thailand's morality and you will know that this statement is an otopia and you have to be “entrepreneurial” yourself to get it right. with a "smile" but dying.
The official rules for Thai Visas are detailed in the file 'Visa Thailand' listed in the menu 'Files' on the left. A somewhat more extensive/updated version can be found at http://www.nvtpattaya.org/nvtp/index.php/info/nuttige-informatie/429-thaise-visums-visumdossier-thailandblog-inclusief-jaarvisum-50-jaar-ouder-en-met-een-thai-gehuwden
Incidentally, at point 1, with a joint bank account, only 50% is indeed awarded to the applicant. Nothing exceptional in itself. Immigration in Phuket has therefore been smooth, but now adheres to the official rule. See page 17 of the above link.
Indeed, the application of the official Immigration rules is not the same everywhere. It regularly causes problems, especially in the 'outer regions'. On the one hand, this has to do with insufficient local knowledge of & experience with these rules, and on the other hand with another well-known phenomenon that I will not describe in more detail (read, for example, the reaction of Hans Bos). If possible, go to a location where the rules are correctly applied, for example to Bangkok or Pattaya; things run very smoothly there – as long as you stick to the basic rules.
The official rules are really clear, and you can even give the Immigration Office the web links where the rules are listed in detail. Remember, though, that pretty much everywhere it says "plus any other information the immigration officer deems necessary." But that must of course be reasonable. Demanding a legalized Thai translation in Nongkai (point 3) is definitely not; the rule is clear: English is sufficient. Point 4: ditto; the '10.000 Baht offer' is incorrect (by the way: read the Thai Visa file, because at point 4 there are several things that are not correctly stated). But one thing always applies: don't argue, keep calm and refer to the rules.
Unfortunately I have to correct Tino Kuis, who I respect, because his comment: “There are a number of basic conditions, but every immigration office (and the embassies too) can deviate from them at will.” is definitely incorrect. I also advise him to read the 'Thai Visa' file carefully. It is not possible to deviate from the rules, but there may be circumstances that make other rules applicable. Read the file.
With Ronny Mergits (the writer of 'Thai Visa', with whom I discussed this kind of matter just yesterday) I await with shock and trembling reactions from justified remarks about 'abuse' on the one hand, but also unjustified reactions because people do not know the rules or respects.
Dear top martin: corruption is also and not only in TH a matter of mentality and attitude. See: https://www.thailandblog.nl/nieuws/65-pct-peiling-vindt-corruptie-acceptabel/
You cannot maintain that the same mentality and attitude towards corruption is common in the EU, for example. The impact of corruption in TH goes much deeper, but you know that yourself. In addition, anti-corruption in the EU is the starting point for (virtually all) action.
As for the French former president you quoted: in 1981 it cost him his head, as it is so beautifully expressed in NL. He was publicly and internationally dismissed. That he was the founder of the G7 was not taken into account. Something similar was recently going on in NL with a former VVD provincial deputy. See, that's the difference. Also in the fact that in Germany, for example, the BKA brings up so many facts. Could they also be bought off from a local official?
That's what it's all about, and hopefully that will change, being the purport of the statement.
Here in the Netherlands it also depends on who you meet, a few weeks ago an acquaintance came to The Hague on his day off for a visa. However, he had forgotten to make a copy of his passport and there they could or refused to do it, so he returned empty-handed to the port city and back again another time. Yesterday my brother went to get us visas, we had everything by the book, so also the copy of the passport and yes, you guessed it, it was not necessary at all…
Of course, the statement also applies to Thai embassies abroad…………
In England you will receive a Non Immigrant B without any problem and in the Netherlands at the Thai embassy and consulate a Non Immigrant B will no longer be issued.
In pattaya always paid 1900 Baht for my retirement visa one entry.
I have been living in koh samui since 2 years here that devil's advocate asks for 5000 baht without scruples when I tell him it's 1900 baht elsewhere, I come back from a barren journey.
Applies to all farangs by the way.
if he does that 150 times a year times 3000 a nice thirteenth month
marc
To obtain the certificate de vita for the benefit of the SVB, one must report to the Thai SSO (Social Security Office). In 2012 this was enough, but in 2013 I was sent to Immigration.
When I got there I was looked at as if they saw water burning. Nevertheless, a stamp and a signature were put to certify my life. Cost 1000Bath of course, despite my request, without receipt. Complaint about this to SVB was never answered!
The SSO was only surprised when I told them that 1000Bath had to be paid.
It can be guessed that at the Immigration I only showed my surprise from the knowledge that I have to show my nose there every 90 days and am not waiting for possible opposition in the future.
For the attestation de vitae: That is very strange, Fred, because the SVB package insert says that a statement from Immigration or a notary is no longer possible, and that you (& your partner) must appear in person at the SSO office, plus passport & all kinds of copies. I followed that procedure two months ago – with no problem.
@Gringo,
Not only the different immigration offices apply different rules, even in one and the same immigration office (Jomtien-Pattaya) the rules are applied differently.
If I had my retirement visa extended annually, I obtained an income statement from the Austrian Consul in Pattaya.
Never had a problem with renewal.
This year I decided to arrange things without an income statement, but with consultation of my Thai bank book.
So got a statement from the bank and went to immigration with the rest of the necessary papers.
Now I am married to a Thai and that bank book is in both names.
When the immigration lady in question studied my bank book, she noticed that it was on two names.
Are you married then was the question. Yes.
“Then where is the copy of the extract from the marriage register?” Of course I hadn't.
I could argue as much as I wanted, but I was allowed to come back the next day with the extract in question.
When I got home, I blindly searched for the relevant piece of paper {has been in a drawer somewhere for 8 years} and made a copy.
At the immigration there was now another lady at the desk where I had to report.
Yesterday's lady sat a desk next to it. Can you feel it coming already?
When this new lady leafed through my papers, she gave me the relevant extract back with the statement: "You don't need this". Well damn… I said to myself.
When I indicated with a rather raised voice that her colleague had sent me back for nothing yesterday, both ladies looked at me rather annoyed and I was told that I had to pay and I could leave.
Amazing Thailand.
Leo Bosch.
There may have been a misunderstanding here. The Immigration Officer may have thought you wanted to apply for a so-called 'Thai Women Visa' (not a visa at all, but a 1-year extension based on marriage to a Thai), instead of the so-called Retirement Visa you meant ( also no visa, but an extension of 1 year for people over 50). Incidentally, only 2% of each bank account that is in 50 names is awarded to the applicant. For the 'Retirement Visa' you do not need to provide a document for the 2nd name of the bank account. For the 'Thai Women Visa', the marriage certificate must be presented, plus a whole range of other proofs.
Well, rules are rules you would say. But rules are not always applied as they should be applied. Sometimes they are to your disadvantage and we are angry, other times they are handled smoothly and we are happy. This does not only happen when issuing visas, but also on our own Thailand blog. The one time you respond to someone and your response is deleted under the guise you are chatting. The other time you do the same and it will be accepted. We will have to learn to live with it.
i live in kanchanaburi, i have an o-immigration visa, first i went to laos for a visa i got, it was valid for three months, went to the immigration service for two weeks of expiration three months, i had to submit and doctor's statement costs 100 baht (hospital) then print the entire passport, then an income statement, get it through your embassy, you must have 65000 baht as a pension, with all those data to the immigration service you pay 1900 baht, and you're done, every three months to the immigration service and your visa will be extended again for three months and this is a grace.
1- proof of health is issued in any hospital in Thailand costs 100 bath.
2 proof of income if you are retired can show 65000 baht
to obtain this at your embassy of your country costs for Belgium 600 baht.
3- print your entire passport (everything).
4- a passport photo
5- everything is in order then you pay 1900 baht for a year visa 0-inmigration.
hope to have provided enough information.
one more thing i want to write and visa run to the burma border costs 700 baht, if you are in kanchanaburi and you can rent a scooter trip to the border 1 hour and 30 minutes 70 km. i regularly bring friends to the border fun trip.
greetings from richard ge bel.13-12-2013
Hi Gringo,
We both have a booklet with an amount on it, which is only for the visa.
When there is another offer from the bank for a high interest rate, I will do that with both booklets.
One fixed for 6 months and the other for 12 or 25 months.
I only make sure that it is longer than 3 months on it if we have to go for a new visa again.
I've heard that you can't get your visa with such a booklet, but I've never had any problems with it.
Greetings,
LOUISE
I came to Thailand, always with an O/A visa. Only had to provide proof in Belgium of my bank balance. Now this visa is no longer granted. So I am here with an O visa. In the meantime I have 1.000.000 baht in my Thai bank to obtain a retiring visa. Had the choice at imm. Wait another month or pay 24.000 baht and then it would be fine….. I think they really had to apply the law, many people would be allowed to leave here….. I don't know many here who can present this sum… Just saying that everything goes smoother if you don't follow the rules.....
A dangerous conclusion.
Indeed, obtaining an OA visa is becoming more difficult (it is still possible in Brussels), but a Non Immigrant O visa does not cause any problems in the Netherlands or Belgium. See File 'Thailand Visa' (left menu bar) for the conditions. The income requirements for this are not high, certainly not for a Single Entry Non Immigrant O.
Proof of income is required for an EXTENSION in Thailand for 1 year (eg for the 'Retirement Visa' = for people over 50): 800.000 Baht in a Thai bank, or 65.000 Baht monthly income, or a combination of both options that together is 800.000 Baht. The combination option in particular offers a solution for people who cannot secure 800.000 Baht. Follow the rules and everything is arranged quickly & cheaply (especially at the larger Immigration offices); in this case for 1900 Baht.
Don't go for 'under the table' deals; only misery can result from that. Why take this risk?
Indeed Martin. I follow the rules (and have been for 7 years). I don't want any trouble.. Honestly is the best way to go… Never had any problems here and I want to keep it that way…. Greetings.