Statement of the week: Thais cannot handle money
A recent study by the Bank of Thailand and the Ministry of Finance revealed that there are three groups of people in Thailand who are in deep debt due to poor management of their income. These are students, people with low incomes and farmers. Together they make up about 70% of the population.
More than 90% of the total Thai population does not keep any records of income and expenditure and also has no insight into their spending habits.
Not really news to me because I had that idea for a long time. When I met my Thai wife she had no money, so any (small) amount was welcome. When my contributions got bigger, she also spent more. Of course in the beginning with necessary things that she couldn't buy before, but gradually her wardrobe was overflowing. Jewellery, gold, shoes, etc. it could not be finished.
Now that spending mania has subsided somewhat, although I still have to reckon with excessive behavior. If she goes to her village for a few days, I give her money and no matter how much I give her: it is always gone. I have sometimes given her some extra with the warning to only use it in emergencies, but that doesn't help: the money is gone when I return. To which? With no way to find out, because she can hardly remember the expenses.
I therefore fully agree with the research result: The Thai cannot handle money!
What is your experience? Join the discussion, with the statement of the week.
About this blogger
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Bert Gringhuis (1945), born and raised in Almelo in the beautiful Twente. Later lived for many years in Amsterdam and Alkmaar, working in export for various companies. I first came to Thailand in 1980 and immediately fell in love with the country. Been back many times since then and moved to Thailand after my (early) retirement as a widower. I have been living there for 22 years now with my somewhat younger Thai lady Poopae.
My first experiences in Thailand as a kind of newsletter sent to family, friends and acquaintances, which later appeared under the name Gringo on Thailandblog. Many, many articles followed those first stories and that has grown into an almost daily hobby.
In the Netherlands still an avid footballer and football referee, but the years are starting to tell and in Thailand still avid, but the pool billiards is really of inferior quality, ha ha!
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Generalization may be wrong…
So I can only speak from personal experience.
My current girlfriend receives an allowance of 200 euros every month to study English at a good private school for 3 years now. (3 afternoons / week). In the morning she has a job in a school.
Not only does she pass every module, and her English has become really understandable, but she also bought a piece of land with her allowance where she has planted fruit trees and a fish pond.
I don't think the fact that she is Cambodian will make much of a difference.
On the other hand, I assume that in Belgium there are also a lot of people who cannot handle their budget well.
So… everything is relative
Well in my experience there is much more similarity between the Dutch and Belgians than between Thai and Cambodians. In many ways, the culture of Thailand and Cambodia is completely different, even in the border areas.
Dear Ton,
Sure……. as far as culture is concerned, and many other values, I agree with you.
Concerning money spending, relationships with farang, I often hear and see parallel statements.
But as already mentioned….I speak from a personal, and to date, some experience.
And it's not too bad 😉
They are very good with money! Only have a completely different vision than we do. We want to save and save, spend them.
Like previous answer no matter how much money it is they always have a purpose for it.
Doesn't mean it's always wrong because they are also very generous to the less fortunate and disabled. Were it not for the fact that sometimes I think they abuse it again.
A Thai woman if you have met the right person can handle money well. Generalizing is of no use, there are also those who cannot handle money, but those are usually the barmaids and the women who have a farang that they do not learn to handle the money.
My wife receives household money every month for everything she has to pay in and around the house, light, water, gas, TV, internet, etc.
As she is very self supporting she can even save some. I learned it hard. I said if you save 1000 bath pm
then I add 1000 baht every month. And that works perfectly. She proudly shows her savings bank book every month. And since she tackles everything from scooter cleaning to smoking mackerel, etc., she has a good life. is missing. They shave everything with one brush and then give a lot if the woman can't handle money. I even taught my wife that she teaches her grandchild to save. Not many Thai women do that. When he comes to us he immediately takes his piggy bank and holds it in front of grandpa's nose. And then he looks at me questioningly, and when I put 10 bath in it I get a big kiss and a big blow from this little guy.
And a new scooter was bought in cash with a 4000 baht discount and that discount went straight to her savings book, so it's possible.
So it is possible, but then you have to guide them well.
Gringo's statement will invite people to confirm it, others will contradict it. I think there are Thais with a hole in their hands, as Gringo describes from his own wife. He calls it excessive behavior. But such behavior cannot be regarded as representative. A few Thai families live in my street who do their best. Younger and older people who work, have children, take it easy and frugal, no big cars in front of the door, mortgage paid off, and just visibly doing well and having a good time. But they are not representative either. Neither does my wife, who is thrifty by nature, previously ran her own business, and knows bookkeeping. but the research is not about them.
The research is about the 70% of the Thai population that is struggling with large debts. That is sad: the government has clearly failed here. The research also reports that 90% of the Thai population has no insight into their spending habits. That is a bad thing, because it says a lot about the inability of the Thai people to do something about their debts.
Hopefully, the research cited has not been done in vain. The total amount of loans and debts of Thai households is growing alarmingly. This may be assumed to be known. But does this research say that the Thai government is beginning to understand that many people face many problems? Does this research make it clear that the government understands that many promises made and previous government measures are partly to blame for the increase in debt? Can Thai people look forward to measures that help reduce household debt?
It is unknown to me whether it is the intention of the Ministry of Finance to do something with the research results. Simply naming a problem is not a solution.
It was to be expected that the 3 groups mentioned, students, farmers and low-income households, stand out as the most concerning. It is not surprising that farmers and low-income households are unable to maintain proper financial management. Farmers have been waiting for months for their payments and compensation, and in the absence of money, they borrow (again and more). At high interest rates, which inflates the debt. The Thai government has a task here.
It may also be clear that many young people in Thailand do not save, but spend. Not strange in itself. Thailand is an immense consumer society, with massive challenges and enticements for young people. Another factor is that neither the government nor the elderly offer savings as an example. Plus, the social phenomenon of “show off” plays an enormous role in the lives of those young people. It is strange that young people see how dire a living situation can be if you have a lot of debts, but nevertheless form a group that exhibits the same behaviour.
Thailand's income problem is a social problem. To elaborate on this in this specification would go too far, but the fact is that if circumstances do not change, people's living conditions will not either (with exceptions, of course!). Thailand is an excessive consumer society, many Thais are exaggeratedly set on getting and having, the Buddhist structure does not encourage active intervention in one's own living environment, instead it promotes acceptance and resignation,
The last sentence is half sent, and should be as follows:
……………..acceptance and resignation, which leads many Thai people to entrust their fate to higher powers. For them, that includes the political authority, but it has trapped itself. I am afraid that I must thus unfortunately answer the questions I raised in the previous paragraph in the negative.
Who am I to argue with the Bank of Thailand or the Ministry of Finance? By the way, I couldn't find that recent research anywhere. But it is true that every month there is an article in the newspaper that mentions the (excessively) high debts of households. For what I say now I refer to the two links below, with a lot of statistics. These are all averages, which does not rule out the fact that a large number of people are over-indebted, especially among those on lower incomes. I am now talking about Thailand as a whole ('the Thai') and then it is not too bad.
1 On average, Thais save 10 percent of their income
2 The average debt burden per household is 136.000 baht, which is 70 percent of annual household income, one of the lowest in Southeast Asia (the Netherlands: 350 percent!)
3 On average, households spend more than 1 (one) percent of their income on repayments and interest
4 Incomes and assets have risen faster than debts in recent years
5 The number of NPLs (non-performing loans) stands at a healthy 2-3 percent, about the same for all income groups but lowest for the lower income group (less than 15.000 baht per month)
This is not to say that there are no harrowing cases, but the general picture for the whole of Thailand looks reasonably healthy. I suspect that most Thais manage their income and expenses reasonably well. The banks have already been instructed to assess applications for loans more strictly.
http://asiancorrespondent.com/79276/household-debt-in-thailand-is-it-unsustainable/
http://asiancorrespondent.com/81931/household-debt-in-thailand-is-it-unsustainable-part-2/
Dear Tino, although I am strongly in favor of not exaggerating too much when it comes to Thai phenomena, I do think that things should be put in good perspective. A little exaggeration is allowed to clarify things. As Gringo also does with the strong description of his statement, in order to draw readers' attention to the very unpleasant living conditions of some Thai people.
However, I believe that other figures should be added to clarify the situation even more.
In a June 2013 article on Thailandblog, it was said that: “households in Thailand are over their heads in debt; this year even shows an increase of 12 percent, according to a poll by the University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce (UTCC).
Of the 1.200 respondents, 64,5 percent have an average debt of 188.774 baht compared to 147.542 a year earlier. Low-income people are mainly indebted to money loan sharks.” https://www.thailandblog.nl/nieuws/huishoudschulden-rijzen-de-pan-uit/
The debt burden mentioned in June 2013 is almost 50% higher than you mention.
Another fact that really struck me at the time, in that June 2013 article, was that “labourers and low-income people” borrowed more than usual because of the falling economy. Previously a 5000 baht; but now "a willing prey to moneylenders," and "with the greatest difficulty in meeting its obligations."
Aren't there any situations to worry about?
In the Netherlands, household debts are indeed 3,5 times income. In Denmark even higher. This is due to interest-only mortgages. Nevertheless, since the crisis at the end of the last century, households in the Netherlands have been able to pay off these debts steadily. Total mortgage debt in the Netherlands is falling. that repayment is done with savings. In 2013, for example, an amount of 118 million euros from savings balances was used to eliminate these mortgage debts.
I do not believe that the said 70% of Thai households are able to pay off debt in comparable proportions. The debt problem of the Thai is, from my perspective, also a social problem, which needs more attention than just a report from a university, or a ministerial quote.
Most women I know are very frugal. I know some who can even live on 50 baht a day. My girlfriend says I don't have to eat out every day, I cook something myself, for example. Or go to the market and get some.
But. If you go with a woman, she will also partly take over your lifestyle. Are you someone who prefers to eat out every day, go out, etc., then your wife will also like that and if you are a welcome figure in the local nightlife, she cannot stay behind, including a beautiful dress, etc.
It also depends a lot on age. A student in her early 20s has a different lifestyle than a 30-40 year old lady. The girls I know here from university usually don't look at a few baht, but that only starts when they have to work themselves.
You often see the same song when they go to their home village, try to show off to family, etc. If you then give them money, you might as well write it off immediately.
Furthermore, my girlfriend has now also realized that as more money comes in, you also have more expenses. For example, a car in front of the door is nice and nice, but you are not alone with the monthly payment. Such a thing also needs insurance, services, gasoline, etc. etc. A larger nicer house is nice but also costs more per month. If they are single, it often doesn't get any further than the rent for their condo, the motorbike and phone credit. Some clothes and make up and that's it. Then they get into a relationship, but think they can still live like in their home village, which turns out not to be the case.
I had a Thai girlfriend (for 3 years) who I always told : The only thing you understand about money is
NO MONEY
It has often occurred to me that many Thai people cannot count..but that is nothing compared to that of our government leaders in the Netherlands! They count themselves rich with money that is not there!
I agree with Gringo for the most part, they have a hard time dealing with money, they have a bit about it, this seems to hurt them and they start buying or investing in things they "really" need.
See a lot with new cars and sometimes ask; do they need them? well no, but easy when it rains pffft yes it will be nonsense story but wake up!
Have only lived here for over 13 years, understand less than 1% of how the Thai thinks, you do well 😉
Fortunately mine is different ………………..bahtjes are already gone before she has counted haha.
Please report last; Pattaya and other tourist places is not real Thailand
Planning and organizing is not their strong suit, not in their nature I believe. My experience is that they think and act in the short term. I have never caught my Thai wife buying nonsensical things even when I am not in Thailand. We have now bought a piece of land twice on her advice, which retains its value somewhat like gold, I see that more as an investment for later.
Below is what was recently in the news in NL: “Many households do not accept that they have less to spend: just borrow. By piling credit on top of each other, they slowly but surely slide towards the abyss of debt assistance. The number of problematic debts grew by almost 7 percent in 20 years.
More than 1 in 6 Dutch people (17,2 percent) have debts. Between 373.00 and 531.000 households have problematic debts.”
Now 17,2% is a different number than the mentioned 70% of course, but I mean, debts are not exclusively reserved for Thai.
There are agencies in NL where people can turn to for help, but I'm afraid that in many cases the community will pay for it.
Many people cannot handle money. So Westerners, Africans, Asians, ….
My statement: If you were not taught how to handle money during your upbringing, then you cannot expect to handle money well later on.
What is “good money management” anyway?
That is saving and occasionally denying something. Often you can go a short or longer period without anything.
Saving first, and only then buying is also such a big advantage. Buying on credit is for many people (who usually can't handle money) the beginning of major financial worries.
Buy as little as possible on credit. Big exception: a house, because this is a form of pension savings. Elderly people with their own homes live well. Older people in rented accommodation often have financial problems.
My Thai wife, who I have been married to for almost twenty years, is much better with money than I am. I assume that means don't throw money over the bar or buy things you don't actually need at all. I sometimes have the tendency to buy something impulsively, which I soon forget about. Ying is not bothered by that. She is thrifty, but certainly not stingy. We have a joint bank account and anyone who needs money goes to the ATM. That's usually me. We have never had any words or problems about this. At most she asks “did you really need that?” if I messed up again. What strikes me is that many fellow farang talk about the allowance or pocket money they give to their wives. I am glad that our marriage is based on equality, where no one has to hold up his/her hand. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that my wife has always (financially) taken care of herself in both the Netherlands and Thailand and we have therefore never been dependent on each other in this area. Actually, I think we wouldn't have had any problems if this had been different. I often feel that these kinds of discussions are not primarily about money, but about a lack of mutual trust and respect. Or am I seeing that completely wrong?
What a beautiful view. You seem very happy together
Well, I could write a book about it, they want everything but have not saved anything, I still have a farang….I was so fed up with it at one point that I told her that I would have 3000 less household money per month and that I would save that for her, she was not allowed to touch it for a year.
I thought it went well, after 3 months I thought I will put it in the bank (it was in a pig) so that was no longer necessary, I ask where is that money?
Answer my father needed it, and I can't refuse!!!!!! I say you steal from yourself, answer now and then.
How are you supposed to teach someone with such a mentality how to save
Oosterbroek the problem is not the fact that your wife cannot save or handle money. You yourself are to blame especially if you doubt your lover's mentality. If you had saved for her, put it on her book or put it in a safe that she couldn't get into, she would have seen over time that you you can learn how to save. By giving her 3000 baht less household money every month and saying that you save it for her, you undermine her confidence. Especially if you firmly say that I am only a Farang. A Thai woman is very sensitive to this kind of statements. Talking a lot and discussing together that saving for a certain goal is better than financing anything, is the best solution.
the following reaction appealed to me: What is "handling money well" by the way?
Were you married to her father or to her you could have asked her.
That is saving and occasionally denying something. Often you can go a short or longer period without anything.
Saving first, and only then buying is also such a big advantage. Buying on credit is for many people (who usually can't handle money) the beginning of major financial worries.
Perhaps it would have been clearer for the discussion if the statement had sounded “Thais cannot handle other people's money”, but that will probably be too tendentious.
It is clear, in defense of the Thais, that they have no Calvinist tradition of thrift. The nest egg does not last long in Thailand, but they do like to have their own house, which is a good investment. Luxury consumer goods are very popular and that is good for the economy, but bad for the, often Western, wallet. Westerners' money in Thailand often flows to those who have less. The money of the rich Thais stays with the rich Thais.
With us you propose something if you are well off. In Thailand you imagine something if you let it hang wide. Of course, the need to propose varies from person to person. Unfortunately, a lot of love (from both sides) goes through the wallet.
BramSiam, very right. Thais can't handle other people's money. It's not their money, so why should it be used sparingly ??? On the contrary, they spend more than the planned budget. Well, that was the case with my wife anyway. I've given up and I'm leaving early the day after tomorrow back to Belgium. She can make her plan.
Thanks for your candid response Dre. ""It's not their money, so why should they be careful with it?"" sounds very familiar to me. The "average" Thai will think so, contrary to what some - but perhaps fortunately apparently - would have us believe.
I find my Thai girlfriend a bit too sparing
As an example after many years I experienced Songkran in Khon Kaen. first with a moped taxi from the village costs 40 baht then with the baht bus (30 baht two people) from Bangfang back I wanted to take a taxi costs 300 baht,
No she's my girlfriend, we're going to walk and back with the baht bus.
much cheaper.
all when getting off at the baht bus on the highway no moped taxi to bring us to the village
so 5 km walk back to village.
Think she'll take a taxi next time
I did save 160 baht. and which Dutchman does not want that.
Food is limited to rice in your own field, just like the chicken lying next to it.
We save together for a car, she thought that was strange, you can also buy the car with an installment
Explained to her that we won't need the car for another two years,
that is why it is better to save now and to secure the amount.
Needed more than an hour that saving is cheaper than borrowing.
When I look at everything she is more Dutch than my ex wife.
Gr Pete
Thais can't handle money at all, and we Dutch all live in a windmill, walk in wooden shoes and smoke weed and eat at home from Delft blue plates.
Many Thai people have had no or very poor education.
For most high school students, the 10 times table is an impossible task, and so is adding two two-digit numbers.
How can you ever expect that the large undeveloped part of the Thai population can handle money?
How can they make a financial plan if they can't count at all?
yes yes, they can't count… just agree on an amount once with a barmaid, eg 850/day for 20 days. Round off the amount to 15000 bath at the end of the third week.
You will see that they can count , ha ha.
But it is true that there are good and bad intentions with some Thai women and not only with the women. A question to the bloggers: how much have you already received too much change?
How many times too little change?
In any case, it is a fact that purely mathematically a Thai can never match a European.
Just do a little test in your environment : multiplication tables for quickness.
I think it is a fact that in schools not enough attention is paid to math, because in other areas they are wise if you spend a little time on it.
@ DVW:
It will depend on the school, but here it is hopeless.
They also cannot speak a word of English after 6 years of secondary education.
If they can't count, the science subjects won't mean much either.
They are good at sports.
And it is a good extra income for the school, if you would like to have a diploma.
They have the same system here that has been very successful in the Netherlands.
It is not about whether the pupils learn something, but how many pupils leave school with a diploma.
Was recently at a primary school. There were 11-year-old children in the 5th grade, some could not read or write yet. It is due to a poor learning system, nothing like old teachers who cannot teach the children. And they do not need support at home either to be expected. Because when they come to their parents to have them read to them, they either don't have time or are not interested in what their child is learning. I don't think they know the system of the Netherlands to recite the tables together. 12 asks how much is 12 and 13 , then you see them counting on their hands and it takes a very long time before they know the result. So the whole learning system is very behind. And no free tablet helps with that. In secondary schools even in the universityt, the students speak less English than my Dutch grandsons from the 4th grade of primary education.
Even the tablets obtained for free are usually used for games instead of learning something.
But those same children can already drive a scooter, preferably without a helmet with 4 people without a scooter license. And everything that the Thai does not understand or does not want to understand, they classify under the name culture is my experience.
I don't want to generalize, but the ones I know all suffer from Christ syndrome. (let me think a moment!)
Gerrie, be glad that many suffer from and under this syndrome. Many blogs were filled with less bad.
I read just about everything here, but I don't think you can really draw a line. My girlfriend is more of the thrifty kind. We first have some patch work on her cottage in the countryside and she insists on securing this “for the children”. If we are in Bangkok, Phuket or Pattaya and I want to eat at a restaurant, even if it is a local case where no tourists come and the prices are very reasonable, she says “no darling, safe for the house”. She would rather buy something at a stall. If I can get her to eat something in a local restaurant for about 250 Baht for 2 people, she still thinks it's expensive. The next day we visit a temple and without much thought she takes 400 Baht out of her bag for the incense sticks and the sheet of gold leaf for Buddha. I often let her pay the bill at the restaurant or in the store and give her a budget for the whole week at the beginning of the week. If I do get her to a tourist restaurant, she will easily tip 100 Baht or more. In the Isaan she arrives with 1000 Baht per week or less, if we go out, she will not get further than halfway through the week with 3000 Baht, of which about 1000 Baht is in tips and offerings. And in the end I consider myself lucky that she still doesn't like a drink on a terrace or at the bar. She doesn't smoke, she doesn't drink alcohol and when she buys clothes for her or the children it rarely exceeds 200 Baht. It will be where the priorities lie, I think.
Some Thai people cannot handle money, like the people here in the Netherlands, some people cannot handle money either