Today another Proposition of the Week and this time about corruption. In this statement, we argue that it is not individuals who perpetuate corruption, but that the problem lies in the culture and structure of Thai society.
This statement can be supported by those who believe that Thai society and its structures have a history of clientelism, nepotism and patronage. These structures are institutionalized in many ways and are reflected in the day-to-day practices of political leaders, civil servants and business people. In this view, individual acts of corruption are often not so much the problem as symptoms of deep-seated and wider structural problems.
An example of this culture and structure of corruption is the fact that political leaders often put their own interests above those of the citizens, and in many cases there is a conflict of interest between political and business interests. There is little transparency in political decision-making and accountability. This leads to a situation where political leaders and officials can serve their own interests rather than those of the citizens they are supposed to represent.
Another example is the fact that Thai society has a long history of patronage and clientelism. Political leaders and businessmen build their power through their networks of personal contacts and by extending favors to others. These favors can range from political protection to financial support. This leads to a situation where individuals who do not have the right connections are often left out of the opportunity to succeed and grow in society.
While there are certainly arguments against the proposition that corruption is primarily a structural problem, there are also many supporters of this view. Supporters argue that individual efforts to fight corruption are not enough and more structural reforms are needed to end corruption in Thailand.
In short, while individual acts of corruption are a problem in Thailand, it is perhaps more important to look at the broader cultural and structural problems that fuel and perpetuate corruption. Addressing these issues and fostering a culture of transparency, accountability and community unity will help us fight corruption in Thailand.
Join the discussion and let us know whether or not you agree with the statement and why!
About this blogger
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Known as Khun Peter (62), lives alternately in Apeldoorn and Pattaya. In a relationship with Kanchana for 14 years. Not yet retired, have my own company, something with insurance. Crazy about animals, especially dogs and music.
Enough hobbies, but unfortunately little time: writing for Thailandblog, fitness, health and nutrition, shooting sports, chatting with friends and some other oddities.
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totally agree with the statement.
Corruption or as the Thai call it : friendliness is completely ingrained in the culture.
Give a little, take a little.
Often encountered. Such as dinner to employees of the town hall, paying in the toilet, paying through a subordinate servant who then handed it over to a superior in the parking lot, Employee of the town hall who wanted to go out to dinner with me, but because they lived too far from the town hall I could also just give money.
Family members cheating on each other financially is also common.
Money plays a very important role in Thai society no matter how one obtains it.
Difficult subject because as stated it is a fact throughout society, the business world but also the military and police leadership are always at the receiving end and the citizen just has to accept it
The citizen, however, often dips his foot in the money of corruption, immigration and police officers are at the forefront, but all those burootjed who help you with everything I also find corrupt. If you don't lose it to one, you lose it to the other
Everything starts with education and a sense of standards, which are, in my view, inextricably linked to a corruption-free world. In addition, there are possibilities, for example, to make the police.immigration less corrupt. You can increase the basic salaries and then work with incentives.
But those who make that decision are at the end of the rainbow and won't allow it anytime soon
Totally agree with the statement. There is corruption in every country. But in Thailand a lot, because there are few or no authorities in Thailand that really tackle corruption. And I don't think they will come anytime soon. Indeed, it starts with the top politicians, civil servants, army command and police. There must be independent supervisors for each component, more checks, transparency, accountability and severe penalties for violations. Dismissal, prison sentences, etc. Of course, these supervisors should not be composed by the top. Then we have corrupt regulators and then we are back to square one.
Thailand has long been at a low place in indices that measure corruption and the like. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/corruption-index Compared to neighboring countries, Thailand is doing even better (Note: this comment is meant ironically!), because Cambodia and Myanmar have placed themselves even lower, countries such as Indonesia and the Philippines are level with Thailand, Vietnam is doing better. You may wonder what all this means for Asean as a whole. But this aside.
In Thailand it is normal to take good care of yourself and your loved ones. A great way to do this is money. Thai people are fond of that remedy. One because he has too much of it and wants even more, the other because of a shortage. But anyway - it can mean that money has to be generated in other than legal ways. That generation of money should not be exposed so much because those from whom money is stolen could claim a return. In that case, all the effort has been for nothing. So it has to be done in a shadowy way. Lighting each other up is an example of this, which can be followed daily on many TV news channels. But also deception, fraud, or playing the loanshark yourself. A friend of my wife called for a loan because she wanted to buy a new car. She wanted that loan from us at 0% interest, privately, nothing on paper. Why she didn't buy that car with her own money, was our question? Well, she had “invested” that money with other people in small denominations with guaranteed high profits. So we didn't have to worry about refunds. It'll be fine, she assured us.
Hardly anyone has problems with this kind of practice: one creates supply, the other is a customer. Everyone has their own motives and interests, and together they turn it into an informal sector. It is a way of dealing with everyday problems and obstacles to find solutions that life poses, and has to do with the fact that Thailand has never (had) the ambition to become a welfare and rule of law state. Corruption is embedded in the fabric of Thai society on the same principle. Thailand has a superstructure in a society constructed over the years and decades, constructed with an ultimate goal: to safeguard its own interests. If both government and state powers lead by example in a country, what is left for the citizen to do? Right, good example leads to good follow. And as we know, the concept of 'good' in Thailand has its own interpretation. Read also: https://pala.be/nl/artikel/corruptie-thailand-swingt-de-pan-uit
Corruption has to do with the attitude of those in a position of power and whose help or services are called upon:
– in a real democracy that person will ask “what can I do for you”?
– in a flawed or false democracy, that person will first ask “what can you do for me?”
Agree with the statement. But a nuance, or placing it in perspective based on a micro-example:
In Thailand you pay “extra” to officials for, for example, a visa on the same day and “without hassle”.
For example, if you want your passport in the Netherlands earlier than the standard term of 3 weeks, you pay the “urgent rate” and you will receive your passport within a week.
What is the difference? In the Netherlands, the amount goes to the government and the civil servants who make the extra effort receive nothing extra. In Thailand, the officials who make the extra effort themselves ensure that they get something extra for it.
Is that last one neat? That's the discussion. At the same time, you could argue that the state of affairs in the Netherlands as indicated here is a legalized form of what is called corruption in Thailand. And that in the Netherlands this is also part of the structure of society, widely accepted and packaged as an “urgent rate”.
Mark,
My wife was able to reduce the age on her passport by 5 years, which she did.
At that time it cost 1000 baht per year.
I don't see this as a special service from the officer in question.
She also had a birth certificate made and a check by the Dutch government's fraud department revealed that the entire archive at the town hall had been destroyed by fire.
Checked later: of course there had never been a fire.
years ago I met an American boy whose father had passed away and his Thai mother went back to live in Thailand.
The American boy was then able to assume the identity of a deceased Thai young man, for a considerable amount of money.
When we needed something from the town hall, my wife had to give money to an officer in the men's room.
With money and the right knowledge you can arrange everything in Thailand.
So I see more as diligent civil servants
A Thai friend of my wife had told her Belgian boyfriend at the time that she was 10 years younger than she actually was at the time. When they married, the Thai lady also officially registered herself 10 years younger, through the willing cooperation of Thai officials, of course for payment.
That Thai bride then emigrated to Belgium. She worked there for more than 30 years as a worker in a chicken slaughterhouse.
When she turned 64 she wanted to retire at 65. But officially on all documents she was 54 at the time.
Meanwhile, the retirement age in Belgium has been raised to 67.
She has already made many attempts to undo her youthful age fraud. Without result.
She fears that she will have to work until she is 77 before she can receive pension money.
It could be, as Bredero said.
Quote: At the same time you could say that the state of affairs in the Netherlands as indicated here is a legalized form of what is called corruption in Thailand. And that in the Netherlands this is also part of the structure of society, widely accepted and packaged as an “urgent rate”.
Why would you call a premium service corruption?
For example, packages can also come by boat or by plane, right?
It will cost more by plane.
And a first class seat on the plane also costs more than a cattle class seat.
I also completely agree with the statement, corruption is so ingrained in society here that it is almost impossible not to participate.
I also don't expect it to change in the near future, despite the promise of some politicians. I would like to know if there are people among the thailand blog readers who have never participated in any form of corruption.
I have written here several times in the past about corruption in Thailand.
One of the first questions to be answered is what corruption actually is. There are things that we in the Netherlands would call corruption (such as buying off a ticket for a traffic violation) but which are not corruption for the Thais, but 'just' things you don't do.
If we stick to the Dutch definition, there is ovel and corruption at all levels. And because the Thais don't mind some of this corruption (like the tea-money story), this corruption has embedded itself in all kinds of institutions, but also in the minds of the Thais themselves. It is an inextricable tangle of personal and institutional values and a blurring of norms (eg when it comes to conflicts of interest).
Totally agree with the statement.
Over a cup of coffee, the police commissioner said he would soon retire.
As in his case before, the successor will have to come up with a considerable amount.
The highest bidder gets the job.
A business investment for a good income.
People ignore leadership and quality.
However, it was always like that.
So indeed rules, transparency, control and enforcement will first have to be introduced in order to achieve a turnaround in corruption.
The change is only gradually accepted after that.
However, individual corruption will always remain.
The only 'advantage' (if you can call it that) is that the ordinary low-earning citizen also benefits from it. Recently stopped after a pre-sorting error on my part, and had to walk to a small office on the road. There was another officer on a monitor watching through a camera. 500฿ he said. I said "poor farrang" 200฿ okay ? Both started to laugh. 400฿ he then said. I took 300฿ out of my pocket and said ok?? Okay, okay, they said. I saw the humor in it. No, of course this should not be, but in many Western countries there is more or less corruption when it comes to millions and among higher placed people. Well, I suspect it's going to be hard to push this all the way down.
When I first traveled to Thailand about 25 years ago, I quickly experienced all kinds of practices as corrupt. It went against my Western sense of justice. At the time, these were mainly the known relatively small tourist scams.
Now that I have lived and lived in rural Thailand for 15 years, I learned that what we Westerners experience as corruption is intertwined in Thai society, from top to bottom.
It is highly structural. Bringing happiness to the “self-called good people” as PM ment to say.
To put it bluntly: Corruption is the cement of Thai society.
I try to avoid it, but sometimes I have to learn to live with it, because there is no other way.
To me, corruption is the situation in which two parties, A and B, freely enter into illegal agreements with each other that disadvantage a third party, C, (usually, but not always, the government).
Because it often concerns the government, this is more common in countries where people do not have a high opinion of the government. No one cares that much that the government is disadvantaged.
Giving an amount to the police officer of your own free will because you are speeding or not wearing your helmet is corruption (of both parties)
Having to pay a large amount to the police against your will because you have drugs with you is not corruption but extortion.
So the main questions for me are always:
– is there freedom of parties A and B?
– is there a third party that suffers damage (financial, image)?
Corruption is a knife that cuts both ways. I don't beat around the bush it has worked out well for me a few times to put a note of 100 Baht to uncle agent and thus be allowed to drive on without further hassle. Now I am of course talking about the petty corruption that can make life a bit more pleasant.
https://www.thaipbsworld.com/political-parties-can-no-longer-evade-household-debt-crisis-facing-thailand/
This is the beginning of all corruption: excessive borrowing at the level of Thai families to maintain a status for which they do not have the income.