Statement: The larger Thai state hospitals are no worse than Thai private hospitals
It is devilishly difficult to measure the quality of medical care, that applies to both the Netherlands and Thailand. Still, there is something to be said about it.
Thailand has more than 1000 state hospitals and more than 300 private hospitals. For example, Bangkok has more than 100 and Chiang Mai more than 50 hospitals. The larger hospitals (more than 500 beds) are of course located in the major cities. Bumrungrad has more than 500 beds, Siriraj more than 2000, just like Maharaj Nakorn (also called Suan Dok) in Chiang Mai. Many of these hospitals are affiliated with a medical faculty of a university, many doctors here also studied abroad.
The medium-sized hospitals have between 100 and 500 beds, and most cities have one or more. The smaller hospitals with less than 100 beds are more overgrown primary care centers, do not offer specialist care but are fine for simple treatments. They often refer.
A fair share of doctors in private hospitals also work in state hospitals, with the possible exception of Bumrungrad. The nursing staff has generally had the same training.
All hospitals are regularly checked for quality by the Ministry of Health and/or a Medical Commission.
We are convinced that the strict medical care in the larger state hospitals is of the same standard as that in most private hospitals. We are talking about averages, it can differ per hospital. There will certainly be (smaller) private hospitals that perform less than state hospitals and vice versa.
Do you want good medical treatment, do you not have a lot of money to spend, are you not afraid of longer waiting times, would you like to be treated close to home and do you find yourself lying in a room (there are often also private rooms for a little extra money) available) no big problem: choose a somewhat larger state hospital.
Do you want good medical treatment, are you swimming in the money, do you find long waiting times annoying, do you find overtreatment no problem and do you want to be admitted in comfort and luxury: then choose a somewhat larger private hospital.
All in all, we dare to say: 'The larger Thai state hospitals are no worse than private hospitals. But different, we add, just to be on the safe side.'
Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Why or why not? What are your experiences?
List of all hospitals in Thailand: Hospitals Thailand
About this blogger
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Known as Khun Peter (62), lives alternately in Apeldoorn and Pattaya. In a relationship with Kanchana for 14 years. Not yet retired, have my own company, something with insurance. Crazy about animals, especially dogs and music.
Enough hobbies, but unfortunately little time: writing for Thailandblog, fitness, health and nutrition, shooting sports, chatting with friends and some other oddities.
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I agreed with this statement for a long time until I actually marked something.
Located in a large state hospital with 30 people in ICU. (Not pleasant)
A badly inflamed foot that later became blood poisoned was not treated properly.
It turned out they didn't have the good quality medicines.
Doctor said amputation was the only option and then I left the hospital.
At the Bangkok hospital they kept my foot for a lot of money.
It was a very expensive learning lesson that could have gone wrong.
So I don't agree with the statement at all. Has the writer of this article been admitted to both hospitals? I'm afraid this article wouldn't even have made it to the blog.
State hospitals are downright terrible at the treatments. For an "out-patient" who only visits the doctor, it will not matter much except for the long waiting times, but how can you compare these chicken coops with a private clinic. Come on! I find it really embarrassing. Had food poisoning at the time and went to a state hospital. After 3 years I still suffer from this "perfect" treatment. And don't come up with the remark "can sometimes happen"... Roughly 4 months ago also to a state hospital (nice and close) for a bladder infection. Thanks for the perforated bladder! Had everything repaired by a private clinic. Thanks for that!! And the costs? also just covered by my Thai health insurance (of course it depends on which coverage is chosen).
So really have my fill of state hospitals. It is simply measured with 2 sizes. But yes, what not in Thailand 🙂 Our “John with the cap” goes to a state hospital and the people with some money (exaggerated the statement “those who swim in money”) go to a private clinic. By the way… a state hospital is not the cheapest either. Then go to a doctor “around the corner”… it is always cheaper.
Annoying and almost impossible to measure.
Doctors in private hospital are obliged to also work one day in state hospital p/w.
As a result, it will also work the other way around, hence part-time doctors.
I but also for 10 others I can mention that Bangkok hospital makes many mistakes and is also outrageously expensive. Also don't trust that Frank (Dutch) who works there, works for the hospital and is absolutely not there for you. My wife has an explicit experience with this regarding meeting a Dutch patient.
I paid at least 500.000 baht too much with my hip surgery, only to hear 1 year later that it would be better to have an artificial hip placed. I read a story on this blog about 1 person who had an artificial hip placed in Siracha and was extremely satisfied, I paid 650.000 baht for repair which, as it turns out, still needs to be replaced by artificial hip.
I have also been to Sattahip for a check up, of course you have to wait, but after that everything goes quickly and very good English speaking doctors for explanation. No absurdly expensive medicines, no expensive follow-up appointments, which is almost always suggested in Bangkok hospital.
But then the statement on top of it, why is surgery no longer reimbursed by health insurers in the Netherlands to those tourists who go on holiday here, or is there a maximum of what it may cost or what the insurer wants to reimburse, the rest has to be done by yourself? be added or by travel insurance. It's just that Bangkok hospital is more expensive than healthcare in the Netherlands.
They even bring patients back because the treatment in BKH hospital is unnecessary and contains many risks. Know a NL Mrs (name I don't want to mention) who was brought back, had to be operated on according to BKH with a 50% chance of paralysis, recovery costs 40.000 euros, did not operate in NL and after 3 weeks she was walking again, all without risk, s.
A Thai lady (from NL man) has a unilateral accident, hits the mirror of a parked car with her hand. After 4 hours, the police only let her go home with an injured hand / finger.
I was there and went to banglamung hospital, where she did have an injection for pain, free of charge, but was referred to siracha. Nl friend did not want that and then to private hospitals in Pattaya, the first finger has to be removed, 120.000, 2nd, finger off, starting price 70.000 with all additional costs, 3rd did not want to give a price but wanted an advance of 150.000. NL did not have that much money, so I said to Sattahip, the lady was no longer in pain, so to Sattahip, the lady was admitted there, picked up again after 3 days and what turned out, finger was still attached, could also move normally and now don't be alarmed, costs 7000 baht.
That has stung me so much that a state hospital really goes for it to maintain everything for cost price, of course a foreigner will have lost a bit more, but that's just how it works in the land of smiles, in cases like that is therefore discriminated against.
Everyone must decide for themselves what or where they want to go, but in any private hospital, think carefully before signing papers for care and costs.
Greetings, Roel
From bitter experience, I strongly disagree with the statement. Although you often encounter the same specialists in the private clinic and in the state hospital, the treatment is completely different.
Example my Thai mother-in-law turned out to have blood cancer. She went to Sirijai hospital, paid BHT 30000 entrance fees and was treated with reasonable urgency. An unnecessary brain puncture, two weeks of monkeying around in the overcrowded ICU, and then the attending physician said. No further treatment. Take her back home so she can stay there quietly. (Read die) We went to the, very good, Chulapon, hospital, near us. Helped immediately, irradiated, chemo, etc. comes back every three months. This was almost three years ago. She is still walking around now, albeit older and a bit more disabled.
My conclusion, state hospitals are potentially life-threatening for other than routine complaints.
Hi Roel,
Man this is a piece for pattaya mail bag and all the other newspapers.
yes, it is known.
It is a great shame that those private hospitals cut the farang's neck with a large knife.
So roughly 250.000 baht plus a few fingers lost, or 7000 and everything still in place.
BangkokPattaya Hospital. (BPH)
Info surgery for my husband.
After a long period of trading, this could be about 60.000 cheaper, but it was necessary that this operation be carried out.
Still wanted a second opinion and went to Internatiol Hospital Pattaya.
The surgeon told us if my husband had no pain (varicose veins) then the operation was not necessary.
BPH, been a number of times for home cancer and always had to be cut, plus a cyst, which had to be removed. Grab it 20.000.–
Second opinion IHP, where we were told that these were beauty spots and of course they could remove this, which would cost about 7-8000 baht.
Just have the cyst done for the price of 4000.–
The last time in bph for the annual skin cancer checkup.
A new man, for us then.
He had a very special way of doing calculations.
An amount for consultation………..
An amount because he had looked at it………..
An amount for the advice for operation as 1800.–
When I had to pay and saw this I went crazy.
Sisters call, but bill was correct.
I said I'm not paying just call the doctor.
It had suddenly disappeared. right, because I walked to his room.
said I pay, but not the 1800.– and made a new appointment with the same doctor to talk about this.
Come there again, but I had to speak to another doctor because that scared hat was not there.
Never paid that 1800.– until now and we never will.
READERS, ALSO ASK AT CHECKOUT THAT YOU WANT A “”DETAIL-LIST””.
Can you also see what they charge for 1 rubber glove or 1 cotton swab.
I have more examples, but this is enough for me.
And here too you have to wait.
Not as long as in a state hospital.
But I think if you are so clearly cheated and the doctors have no problem at all with cutting into a healthy body because that is very good for the bank account.
Also keep in mind how much trillion all equipment makes.
Hospital purchased today, they were already making a profit yesterday.
Greetings from a seething Louise right now. (when I think about everything again!!)
Moderator: Please respond substantively to the statement and not whether or not a statement is possible.
Of course you can wait, with such a statement, for people who have experienced the most terrible things in government hospitals, and perhaps university hospitals.
No doubt, but mind you, where minced meat is used, chips fall.
I have also heard several stories from people who received the best care in private clinics, that is from their bank balance.
Zippers of unnecessary treatments and examinations are just one example.
And there too work is being done and chips are falling.
After experiencing some unpleasant things in an expensive and some less expensive private hospital, I went to a university hospital for a “second opinion”, so to speak, which declared the assessment of the first issue to be utter nonsense.
The second time I went from the somewhat less expensive tent to the “state hospital” again, where instead of the proposed treatment with an admission of 50000 baht, an admission of a night with a drip and a bag of pills was sent home .
Come back next week, and everything was fine again.
For anyone who strongly believes in the alleged quality of private hospitals in general in Thailand, please bear in mind that these companies are based on making a profit and will pull out all the stops to increase turnover.
And now assume that therefore unnecessary and superfluous examinations, tests and what else will be done on a regular basis.
Incidentally, the larger state hospitals are going to modernize.
In Khon Kaen this is happening in abundance, people are busy with it.
The university hospital in Khon Kaen now has wards that the private clinics can envy.
It is also well known that the large influx of patients to primary care places unnecessarily great pressure on hospitals.
That is why primary care clinics are being established here and there in places and places outside the regional hospital, or if they are already there, rebuilt and.or furnished.
That is where the "general practitioners" will work, so that the large influx at the hospitals is initially skimmed off, and a kind of triage is created in the second instance.
After all, the greatest pressure on the hospitals is the huge influx of GPs.
So that in fact the same situation will arise as in the Netherlands, for example.
As a result, shorter waiting times, less accumulation of patients due to the GP visit, faster turnaround times and, above all, appointments on time.
It is of course still not optimal, but don't forget that private hospitals also have to work under the 30-baht scheme nowadays.
The fact is that there are too few hospitals and doctors in Thailand.
And the proliferation of private hospitals appears to have a particularly inhibiting effect on "public" health care.
As a doctor added me in the state hospital, we are happy when people decide to come to us means that we are gradually doing better.
And yes, the extra income from the treatment of foreigners is very welcome, we can do above-budget things from it.
And to conclude, the Queen Sirikit Heart Center Professor of the Northeast added to me:
“If you want to spend a lot of money, you should go to the **** hospital, but if you want the best care, come to me”.
Whose deed
This statement stirs up quite a bit and most of the reactions are emotional and true. The bottom line is that medical care is sad in many cases in Thailand, but that also applies to the Netherlands and other countries. The reactions also show that money is an important, if not THE most important factor in the entire medical field. In the Netherlands, the costs for healthcare amount to 5500 euros per year per person and things still go wrong several times, there is fraud and grabbing. Zum puke………..To end on a positive note: the Thai nurses are the hardest working, most caring and sweetest in the world
Dear Theo
Your conclusion is correct, that this statement brings up a lot of emotions. But your comment that medical care in the Netherlands is sad in many cases, is incorrect to say the least. I have a chronic illness and am often in the hospital. I've had 11 surgeries in the last two years. The care is excellent. Of course individual mistakes are sometimes made, but that is human nature. And if I have gained respect for a working group, then it is the sisters in the Netherlands.
Too bad you're going too fast. I hope for the Thai that their health care will at least reach a sufficient level for everyone, regardless of whether it is a state or a private hospital.
The statement is not so much difficult to answer because there is so much variation in state and private hospitals (as Hans, quite rightly, writes) but because it contains words like 'no worse' which is not the same as better.
The problem is, of course, by what you should measure the quality of a hospital: by the number of medical errors, by the output/input ratio (how much are the average costs per patient/treatment); the care of the nursing staff, the English language skills of the doctors, the price of the treatment, the speed of diagnosis and treatment, the availability of advanced equipment, etc.). Measuring the quality of hospitals should be the task of the government and based on measurable (and preferably coordinated with the sector) criteria. And I don't mean the ISO standards. It is not that far in this country. In the Netherlands, this task is 'observed' by the health insurers.
I myself have limited experience with state and private hospitals, but I have no experience with paying the bill. I work here as a civil servant and pay nothing for medical procedures and medicines (in a direct sense). So I don't know what it costs unless it's second hand.
I sometimes give lectures for doctors and nursing staff and it strikes me that the private hospitals are more concerned with quality. Of course, the motivation is partly money (either directly from the patient or from the insurer). Another development is that the political will to make Thailand (read Bangkok) a medical hub in South-East Asia is driving up the salaries of doctors in Bangkok and that the good doctors are being 'bought away' from state hospitals, also from rural areas. . Private hospitals pay particular attention to whether the doctor has (also) studied abroad. That more or less guarantees better training as a doctor (not immediately ready with medicines) and more language skills and – what I call for the sake of convenience – cultural sensitivity. Because one thing is clear: with the increase in the number of retired expats in Thailand (worldwide, Thailand ranks 1th place of choice for retirement), the demand for hospital care will increase in the coming years.
My opinion is if it is not serious you can go here, I live in chiang mai and go to the regular doctor in the loicroch who has a private clinic, asks normal prices for both farang and thai and speaks very good English
If it is serious, he will refer you to another clinic. Lana hospital and macromic have normal prices
But if it is serious then I will go back to Belgium, and there I will be paid back almost everything.
Here I asked the price for a catharag operation, so placing a new lens, the price is from 45000 bath in Belgium to be paid by me 10000 bath or 250 euros.
So I don't doubt
gerry
Unfortunately, I was lucky enough to end up in both a private hospital (Udon Thani) and a state hospital (Prachuap Khiri Khan), as well as the Dutch hospitals.
My conclusion is that an average regional hospital in the Netherlands cannot match
this relatively small private hospital in UT, in terms of equipment and speed and treatment.
The state hospital was clearly less and the waiting rooms overcrowded.
But when I see how my in-laws go to the hospital with every disturbing fart
runs and if that is a bit of a reflection for the average Thai, I can imagine something about that.
What I have noticed in Thailand is that hospitals, both private and state hospitals, and doctors often prescribe a course of antibiotics for 5 days. In the Netherlands this is always minus 7 to 10 days due to resistance formation.
Are you going to google the prescribed Thai antibiotics, I have never seen anything else than
take according to prescription for 7 to 10 days. Since they like to prescribe these sweets in Thailand, I always ask for several tablets.
Many Thais often stop taking it after a few days because they often feel a lot better and keep the remainder as a reserve. Resistance will probably not appear in the Thai dictionary.
Readers know how I feel about the state hospitals: nothing wrong with that. A sample of 1 or 2 times using a state hospital is too little to reach a well-founded judgment, as is a visit to only 1 state hospital. But be welcome to spend much more in a private hospital but spare me the nonsense that the quality in state hospitals would be much less. Comment from Tino is desired, an expert.
Thank you, Egon, what an honor. First something about the function of a theorem. A statement is intended to share experiences and discuss on this blog that we can all learn a bit from. This means that a statement is always somewhat simplistic and ambiguous, but not too much. We have little use for 'The Pythagorean Theorem' (True, True!) or the statement 'All Thai women are money wolves' (False, False!).
I have quite a lot of experience in state hospitals, a little less in private clinics, fortunately not yet as a patient but as a patient guide. Usually I was quite intimately involved in the policy of the doctors. In addition, I have heard many stories and read a lot about them.
I think the statement is correct, although there are of course differences between state hospitals and private hospitals (some are better than others). But in general, the statement holds.
I accompanied a Dutchman with a serious complicated fracture of his left lower leg, of which I just know that the treatment could have gone wrong even in the best private hospital. He had 3 surgeries, bone graft, skin graft, new piece of metal in his leg. Fortunately, he is now walking around again, completely healed, a wonderful job from the Thai orthopedist, and that for less than 200.000 baht, which he can pay off with 15.000 baht a month. He only has state pension. But don't ask me how long we sometimes had to wait. At eight o'clock in the hospital. Waiting an hour for an appointment, waiting an hour for the photo, waiting an hour for the doctor (10 minutes in) waiting an hour to make a new appointment and another hour to pay. So I can well imagine that many go to a private hospital, as long as they don't think that the medical care there is always better. If I get something I will go to a good state hospital, my BUPA insurance no longer pays.
Is this a good answer?
Who knows if and how you can complain about your treatment in a government hospital?
Let me not come with all my story, but only with a brief indication; in the meantime there are two stories:
1. About my thrombosis: although the diagnosis was made in a Bankok hospital within 0 minutes, the government doctor still didn't know it after 5 day and 1 nights, after which friends of mine took me to the expensive hospital.
2. had to come back again and again and would be admitted for a not so complicated operation, after which at my -as far as I'm concerned my definitive- last visit, the monkey came out of the sleeve that there would be a months-long waiting list; having to wait is until then, I am not the only patient, but playing tricks on me, and then sending me to the expensive hospital in the meantime for one -completely unnecessary- examination after another is shameless. That -thanks to the progress of science- “completely unnecessary”: I know from an internet site of a hospital in the Netherlands.
Unfortunately I am not insured, but I was until my retirement in the Netherlands, but if you go to Thailand afterwards, that will stop.
PS for a good understanding of the above story number 2: the expensive Bangkok-Trat hospital referred me to the (almost) opposite government hospital; this concerns two hospitals with a single relevant specialist, who, however, only holds consultation hours and operates in the government hospital.
End of story? So I am now urgently looking for a hospital. Thanks for the link.
PS for a good understanding of the above story number 2: the expensive Bangkok-Trat hospital referred me to the (almost) opposite government hospital; this concerns two hospitals with a single relevant specialist, who, however, only holds consultation hours and operates in the government hospital.
End of story? So I am now (literally and figuratively) urgently looking for a hospital. Thanks for the link to all Thai hospitals..
Thanks Tino. I totally agree with your comment. Geleijnse wanted to reply, but HansNL has already done this very well. Again I would like to note that a sample size of n=1 is absolutely irrelevant for judgment.
I would like to hear about your personal experiences in the Thai state hospitals, so that we can form an opinion whether you have any right to speak at all. Shouting something from the sidelines is too noncommittal. Sample n+1 is also sheer nonsense. The majority of the "likes" (and there are quite a few!) are definitely NOT in favor of the state hospitals. On the contrary.
After 25 years I spent several times in a state hospital. Personally at least 14 times and as a tour leader many times with my guests in several places. In addition, I have a very extensive circle of family and acquaintances who also forced me to visit several state hospitals. Sample n+1 may give a good judgment depending on the size of n, however a sample of n= 1 is invalid. Good for you that there are so many positive reactions. Wouldn't this be caused by all the negative reactions to the statement of people who are sporadically confronted with state hospitals?
That of that n=1 is a new way(r) to undermine everything for which there is a ready suspicion. I have had a very negative experience with the same government hospital twice, which was a 2% negative score; meanwhile, the Bangkok-Trat hospital has also achieved a 100% score with me, but in the positive. Moreover, not only my experiences count, of course. If Jan, Piet and Kees all three have an n=100 experience, then - if that experience is the same - that is of course not an n=1 experience, but an n=1 experience.
If Jan and Piet and Kees all jump out of a plane without a parachute and all three fall dead, while the latter is rarely the case with those who jump with a parachute, then I know that I am simply wise to parachute. to jump.
Very nice, it really looks intelligent when you say that of those three who died means nothing, because it is statistically too poorly substantiated, but I have my common sense to choose the best chance; I will not be put off by fallacies.
For the time being, my strong impression is that in life-threatening situations (or those that can become so due to mistreatment or withholding treatment) it is really better not to opt for a government hospital. I am happy to exchange that “strong impression” for proof as soon as there is one, whether that proof agrees with what I already thought or not.
Moderator: Please stop chatting.
Statistics has a new subject. Something certain is subject to sampling. Bravo. Stick your head in the sand by dismissing statistically irrelevant opinions with fallacies. This is the proper way to discuss the truth. Does the opinion of Tino, a doctor, of all things, mean nothing? Cognitive dissonance is a brake to face reality. By the way, no one forbids you to go to private hospitals. You have my blessing.
Moderator: You are chatting.
It seems that the discussions on the thailand blog will never work out and the thailand blog is not unique in that. What happens next is exactly what I pointed out earlier: one assumes an opinion, not on the basis of evidence, but by virtue of agreeing with another (or a group of others) with one's opinion that one assumes ( that person or group) does know: "Does the opinion of Tino, a doctor, of all things, mean nothing to you?"
The issue this time is: do government hospitals (in cases where your life is at stake, I might add) do as well as the many much more expensive hospitals?
If we agree that the yes answer that Tino "has the guts" is apparently an opinion and therefore (according to the scholastic view of what an opinion is) an unproven assumption for the time being, then I may - truthfully - add that point my experiences in the direction of the no answer? Or am I just stubborn?
The key point here is that there is no evidence whatsoever. In order to obtain evidence, as my opponent suggests, a statistical study would indeed be necessary, but he does not want that. No, of course not, he feels safe on the condition that he belongs to a group, but also on the condition that it does not appear that the prevailing opinion is incorrect. In that case it would give him - not me - just a cognitive dissonance (a mind-feeling conflict).
In the meantime, I just don't have any proof. Ideally, I would like to see evidence that government hospitals are at least as good as any other hospital in Thailand, even in serious cases. I am not insured, you see, but I have no indications in the direction I want, on the contrary. Then it should already be established that what happened to me is a very rare exception, even rarer than in any expensive hospital. That may be, or it may not be.
So what do I do now? Go back to a government hospital with my experiences (with something more than just something silly)? That just because someone who certainly doesn't know either, even though he thinks so, insists on it? Or should I recruit for the opinion that government hospitals are no good? And if that would only get enough followers behind me, say: see? No of course. If I'm not sure, I'll have to make do with my best guesses.
The point is that people like to count themselves as part of a group and adhere to the prevailing opinion. Not to any insight and (therefore) not to whether that opinion is correct. With that opinion one wants to be right. Whatever stands in the way of that, including a possible insight (and an investigation into it) must be rejected.
Is a discussion always a successful attempt to find the truth? Seldom.
It would be good if we realized more how poorly logical (or call it poor cognitive) people's thinking tends to be when it is motivated by the psychological (or call it the emotional). It would be good if we formed some understanding about this - why and how it works - and then reacted in that light to each other's contributions to the discussion.
Willem van Doorn, aka Lije Vanonschot
Dear Lije, and some others,
My mother would say, "what a bullshit story".
1.Thai state hospitals are fine, with the exception of a few. Speaking from experience after 25 years of Thailand, without insurance. The biggest complaint is the long wait due to a mediocre organization, but that is more common in Thailand. And yes, mistakes are made. Where not!! Consult experienced experts for a good reasonable hospital in your area.
Hereby my experience with the State Hospital Sundok in Chiang Mai with my Thai girlfriend as a patient. Reasonable to do, for Thai standards. Busy, noisy, messy, great doctors. Fang Hospital in Fang, with my father-in-law as a patient. Great doctor for primary care. Had to wait 9 hours (!!) before it was our turn. Urgent cases took precedence and then you can be unlucky if there are many. Treatment, including medicines, is free, even for a Burmese who is only tolerated in Thailand
2. Private hospitals are fine with a few exceptions. Biggest grievance, sometimes greedily expensive. And yes, mistakes are made. Where not!! See above. For Chiang Mai, I go for the Lanna Hospital. My experience there is based on a major back operation and a few years later treatment for an acute kidney stone attack. Medically "TOP" treatment, including ICU and admission in the middle of the night.
Perhaps Thailand blog can encourage people to share their real experience and we can do something with it, instead of theoretical bullshit.
Is it clear now gentlemen.
with fr.gr., Theo
Moderator: This has nothing to do with the post anymore.
We close the comment option. Thanks for the responses.