There is a lot of corruption in Thailand, at all levels. Let me describe how a conversation about this went with villagers years ago.
I asked if there was corruption in the village. 'Certainly,' was the reply, 'and everyone knows about it.'
"What are you doing then?" I asked.
'It depends', was the answer, 'if large amounts are involved and the official (village chief, head of Public Works) is a lazy, stupid man who never does anything and only spends the money for himself then we try to get rid of him To hit. If it concerns smaller amounts that are not so harmful, and the official does something good with it, is nice and works hard for our interests, then we tend to overlook it.' Practical people, those Thais.
Random surveys consistently show that 65 percent of Thais are comfortable with a corrupt act if it benefits them. Let's not forget that 35 percent reject that too.
I have been fined about five times in the past 15 years for not wearing a helmet or parking incorrectly. I bought it off with 200 baht a few times and reported to the police station the other times, 400 baht and a receipt. (I came there twice in quick succession, which elicited the statement from the female agent behind the computer: 'Are you there again?') I participated in a corrupt act, so I am also (a little?) corrupt.
I did a very small sample of foreigners and asked their opinion on the following two situations:
- You get stopped in the countryside for speeding. You will be given the choice to pay 200 baht immediately, which will go into the officer's pocket, or, after taking your driver's license, report to the police station and pay 400 baht with a receipt.
- You see to your dismay that your annual visa has already expired 3 weeks ago. You go to the Immigration Service for advice. The official procedure is: 20.000 baht fine and abroad for a new visa. But you have read Thailandblog and so you know that money sometimes works wonders. You propose to pay 10.000 baht under the table if the officer handles everything immediately. The officer enters.
As far as 1 was concerned, most chose the 'corrupt' act, in 2 it was about fifty-fifty. As for myself: I would also do 1 and 2 only under certain circumstances (little money, sick). Is that recognizable? Would you do that too? Surely you know other corrupt acts of foreigners. (I could name a few).
I argue that you are also corrupt yourself, if you participate in a corrupt act, even if the initiative comes from the other side. In that sense, we are (almost) all corrupt to some degree. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" (John, 7:53-8:11). If we also participate in this form of corruption, can we blame the Thais? In addition to our moral outrage, shouldn't we also look at the whole situation? And shouldn't we first stop corrupt acts ourselves before we (rightly, by the way) accuse the Thais of it? Many times a small amount is of course ultimately a large amount.
After my marriage visa in Chiang Khong was all done, my wife nudged me and said, "Give those people 500 baht to get a bite to eat." Of course I did, you can't refuse your wife anything. The immigration officer returned the money, saying, "We're just doing our duty here." That also works.
How corrupt are we foreigners? Be honest and confess. Shouldn't we set a good example ourselves?
Join the discussion about the statement: 'Foreigners in Thailand also often participate in corruption!
About this blogger
-
Born in 1944 in Delfzijl as the son of a simple shopkeeper. Studied in Groningen and Curacao. Worked as a doctor in Tanzania for three years, then as a general practitioner in Vlaardingen. A few years before my retirement I married a Thai lady, we had a son who speaks three languages well.
Lived in Thailand for almost 20 years, first in Chiang Kham (Phayao province) then in Chiang Mai where I liked to bother all kinds of Thai with all kinds of questions. Followed Thai extracurricular education after which a diploma of primary school and three years of secondary school. Did a lot of volunteer work. Interested in the Thai language, history and culture. Have been living in the Netherlands for 5 years now together with my son and often with his Thai girlfriend.
Read the latest articles here
BackgroundJanuary 11 2025How much does the Thai Royal Family cost per year?
OpinionsDecember 30 2024Twenty Wasted Years in Thai Politics
BackgroundDecember 25 2024What does our DNA say? A few cases from the Netherlands and Thailand
PattayaDecember 23 2024The dark side of Pattaya
It depends, as already described. I don't come to Thailand or Asia to play the saint. When corruption means you can't get anything done without it, it's not good. But to get my turn a little faster, pay less for a fine, turn a blind eye to something that doesn't hurt anyone… I have no problem with it.
What I would have a problem with, for example, is that corruption means that in serious cases such as rape, robbery, murder and theft, the officer no longer performs his task. The fact that accepting bribes would make him work more and more intensively is the other side of the coin.
If I can make up for a forgotten visa extension with a bribe, that's fine with me. But when I get someone to refuse someone else's application by shuffling money, that's another “bad” corruption.
I think the end result of a corrupt behavior should be such that people benefit from it and that no one is put at risk or seriously disadvantaged as a result. But rules can be bent. In Brazil they call this “dar um jeito” or finding another way.
The tricky thing about corrupt behavior is precisely that “few people benefit from it versus harm to others.” Good corruption does not exist: it always goes against the rules in force at the time and it is always about favoring those who have money. The damage to others then lies in the fact that the poor are not able to “bend the rules”. Currently very topical in Brazil, but no less of course in Thailand, where fiddling and fussing around corruption = disadvantage of, for example, the rice farmers, forms the basis of a political impasse that is still damaging the country.
Corruption also keeps the (illegal) prostitution industry going. Less direct perhaps, but a percentage of every beer (barfine?) in a beer bar goes to the police. Yes, we are indeed all corrupt as hell.
Of course I am also guilty of corruption. But which one? The first time I was stopped by a police officer was after I was maneuvering from the right lane over a solid white line into the left lane. Behind me, left and right of me, in front of me: nobody or nothing to be seen. I approached an intersection with traffic lights. I drove about 45 km/h. I saw green flashing on red from afar. But I hadn't seen that police officer hidden. A lot of hassle. Discussion in Thenglish. A colleague of his came sauntering up, my wife next to me got involved, the officer walked to the other side of the car, received 200 baht, and with a heartfelt: "Police service, sir!", both saluted goodbye. After that first time, I decided to play along. “Are you in Rome, act like the Romans”, so also: “I'm in TH, I act like the Thai”.
Is this corruption? Yes, in the narrowest sense of the word and definition. But it is also 'good Thai practice', taking place on a national level, everywhere and by everyone, and tolerated by all governments, be it with regard to the country. use is allowed. As long as the Thai police are not obliged to issue fines on the spot with the handing over of a formal verifiable receipt, I will not pick up that receipt at the police station and pay double the amount that the officer behind the tree claimed. And that's because I find the transparent behavior of the police backward, and I don't feel called upon to explain that behavior to deaf ears against extra payment.
I get very annoyed when I see how cops do their best to pull people over. I am even more indignant when I see from and to some drivers that they really don't have it wide. Why give those people a nonsensical fine? Why not just a warning? Those people barely earn 300 baht a day! Pick up a Thai in a BMW or in a Mercedes. But nothing is put in their way. On the contrary, the wealthy get a free job! When I ask Thai acquaintances about this kind of practice, they say: “The police don't dare! They're afraid for their skin." Therefore: do I mind participating in this kind of corruption? No, if the Thai themselves do not limit these practices, and even the better-off think they can boost their status with it, I am not the one who spends more baht on it.
However: pay 10 thousand baht to move an official the other way? No, that goes too far for me. I make sure to follow the rules of just about everything. And certainly the immigration and visa rules. I will take responsibility for being 3 weeks late for a new visa extension, and if so, pay the fine of 20 K ThB. That thing with that policeman, I can still get away with that for my guts, that's stupid stuff, a distorted reality: if the Thai want it that way, they can get it! But in the case of that official: then you are talking about actively pushing the limits yourself, you have to turn and search, and find out whether it will work, and if it turns out to be the case and you decide to bribe that official, then you are indeed you are guilty of bribery. Then you are corrupt!
Yet a strange psychological phenomenon occurs in TH. You can sense its meaning in the saying: Opportunity makes the thief. In NL there is no fiddling with the police around a traffic violation. And in the civil service you have to have access to the higher echelons with even greater interests. What KPMG is accused of today resembles the latter. This involves millions of euros in bribes. For the common man, the civil service is an almost impregnable fortress. Why is it that in TH it is not inconceivable, and yet widely known, that procedures and protocols can be muddled? That the civil service, especially in the lower echelons, operate from white collars? That you can still consider that with 10 thousand ThB you can achieve your goals “on a personal level”? That there is more opportunity in TH after all?
Experienced several times that quite high people in the police, army, immigration and the driving license department even got angry when I offered them something after services provided.
Just the lower in rank is my experience trying to line their pockets.
If possible, I let them choose whether they want to call my acquaintances higher up and show them a business card of that person.
They usually choose eggs for their money when I tell them that I will call them otherwise.
I absolutely not, am regularly stopped at Saraburi for unnecessary things and ask the officer in question his name and to drive with me to the nearest police station to solve the case and say that he is corrupt, I have allowed to drive on every time without paying anything. in order not to lose face, they always walk on to the next car and only then signal me to continue driving.
What is the difference between BUYING a permit here to put a rubbish bin in front of your door or paying a fine of 150 euros if you have NOT (bought) a permit?
Who oh who?
Have a nice day
Darius
Moderator: please don't chat.
that's how the expats left NL because they were tired of all those rules in pick me bare land, where behind every tree there is an agent with a camera to register if you drive 3 km too fast in built-up areas. Those farangs who were tired of having to hand in and cut back again and again saw their years of accumulated business go to the traffic jams. That's why they won't give a damn that here in Thailand they can buy off a traffic fine for not wearing a helmet with sometimes 100 nath of coffee money. If throughout your later life, while you have done everything to do it right, you are treated in NL to all sorts of nonsensical European / Hague grab-and-go rules. Then I can understand that the Farang thinks especially those over the age of 67. What can I do care. Because those people also know that they don't all live to be 90 years old, so they enjoy Thai life with all its corruptions and troubles. The average ordinary Farang doesn't care about Thai politics either. Because in the end it doesn't matter to him to is something of the more than 65 million Thai nationals. And as long as they are kept under control by a few rich Thai families, the poor man in his soulless street restaurant will be so lame that he can get out of high fines through corruption, he will make use of it. And all those higher educated intellectual world improvers will take care of themselves.
Long live Thailand, a country after my heart. And real poverty is if you comment on everything and everyone then you are really poor.
Long live Thailand, a country after my own heart. You have a good life as a foreigner in Thailand because you don't have to follow any rules. But I think you show too little empathy for the ordinary Thai who suffers from arbitrariness and corruption. The ordinary Thai also wants the corruption to stop, then he/she will have a better life in many ways. Most Thais yearn for the 'rule culture' of the Netherlands.
And if you think comments are 'poor' why comment yourself?
Tino Kuis where do you get the wisdom or data from that the ordinary Thai I assume are the Jan with the caps, want the corruption to stop? Nothing could be further from the truth
If the corruption stops tomorrow we will have a financial crisis in Thailand. Do you really not realize that if the police early tomorrow at 0800 am fine everyone for not wearing a helmet and force the person to continue walking, that at that moment the economy comes to a standstill? And as far as my comment is concerned, I do indeed have that on whom? On those who know better who often have to think from the Netherlands how things should go here. And then I think that's bad poor. The rich among the Farangs are the lucky ones do not interfere with the political views of the 65 million Thai citizens. In my street I sometimes asked who was against corruption. Of the 10, 8 said that they had no problem with it, And believe me the average Thai is much happier than many Farang .
Because the great so-called rich Thais who rule this country are the example for the poor. I don't have a good life as a foreigner because I wouldn't follow the rules, what nonsense.
I don't drive around dunked, I still wear a helmet if I have to be 100 meters further.
And that is why I never have any problems with emigration to extend the visa for a year. I make sure that the income statement and the bank book are in order. Then the sweet teacher always receives a large tin with various cookies from my Thai wife. Yes, that is a corrupt look, but they enjoy it.
And what if that so-called ordinary Thai that Tino was talking about first educate his or her children so that hundreds of children do not drown every year because they cannot swim, or that every month a hundred children of barely 12 years old with a scooter without a helmet die, because those parents and teachers set a bad example. If, as we regularly do, we give children free swimming lessons in our private swimming pool, then that makes me happy as an old Farang. Even if I am a poor slob a tramp 50 bath stop usually I am happier than the recipient.
Yes dear Jan Geluk, I miss your slogan this time: The answer is simple…..
Thais have to educate their children by giving swimming lessons….. That is a task of the government, not of people who sometimes have to struggle to get by on that little money!
And by the way, this is about Thailand, so please leave the Netherlands out of it!
You know them those stories (usually made up) of Farangs who say they have good and highly placed police officers in their circle of acquaintances. These are precisely the expats who keep corruption high in the flag. They sometimes throw out a small fish to get a great to catch. But it is usually bot literally what they catch.
That often starts in the plane, such a 'tough' guy who sits next to you and starts to proclaim unsolicited about the family of his Thai girlfriend / wife or Thai acquaintances, in which there is always a high-ranking person.
He only has to give a nod or a phone call and it will be 'arranged' for him, I also notice that they always have a Thai who has had a high education and has a well-paid job, that poor country girl ( mostly from Isan) which so many are proud of, it seems that it does not exist at all… Well.
If you left in Thailand, you cannot avoid participating in corruption in one way or another. I have learned to adapt, because otherwise you make it very difficult for yourself. Corruption is in fact ingrained throughout society in Thailand in all sections of society and all layers of the population.
In Thai parlance, paying a police officer to give you a ticket is not corruption (but it is wrong). We Dutch call it that. For the Thai, corruption is payments that are morally bad and often also associated with criminal acts.
For me life in Thailand is clear. I myself have a zero-tolerance policy for forms of corruption. That applies to myself if I get a ticket (has only happened to me once in eight years; I don't drive a car, I don't drive a moped but only a bicycle) or need services. The same is true in my professional life. I am a teacher and every time I have a new group of students I make it clear that if they fail my subject, they will fail and they will have to do it again. Gifts or other services will not be accepted, but attempts to do so will be reported to the appropriate authority. (The requirements of each college-level course state that the teacher must encourage and display ethical behavior.)
Don't be blackmailable, don't do anything wrong so they can put me on a plane to the Netherlands the same day. Honesty is the best policy.
Dear Chris,
It is very much appreciated that you behave this way. I wish everyone did, and I intend to do the same in the future. But the flesh is weak…
However, my question was different. Can we call the Thais (or Thai culture) corrupt if we participate in it ourselves? Isn't that hypocritical? If we ask for understanding (see my and many other responses) for our own 'corrupt' (immoral, illegal, incorrect) actions, shouldn't we extend that understanding to the Thais as well? Should we be practical or morally one hundred percent pure? That's my dilemma. I don't know the right answer either, although I can well imagine the moral considerations of villagers in the conversation in the posting.
When I drive from Korat to Pattaya or back I am almost always stopped at the same place for speeding, and whether I am speeding or not I get a fine, 200 baht under the book and drive again after 5 minutes, or a real receipt 500 baht and directly to the police station and back which takes about 5 hours because they are really not waiting for me there, so which would I choose? 200 baht and drive on or spend 2 hours with wife and 5 very annoying children? So for me in this situation, long live the corruption in Thailand.
I know very short about bribing an official I would never start I THINK !!!!
Greetings,
Ben Korat
I'm not so much concerned with that fine for not wearing a helmet, no one is more Catholic than the Pope, but when someone gets on a moped with excessive alcohol, because that can be bought off with a 'man in brown'. The risk that for a paltry 200 baht such a person kills a child then takes on a completely different meaning. Well, that alcohol destroys more than you would like.
We foreigners all take a strange look at the use – which we call corruption – of local agents to buy off a fine. This money indeed disappears in the pocket of the officer. Mind you for a small part, because hierarchy also applies here. No one probably realizes that the average cop here can barely keep his pants on with his meager pay. An aspirant barely earns 10.000 baht and must also pay and / or arrange his own transport on duty. They have to be punctual in terms of uniform and they can also make up for that themselves. I already understand and don't make a fuss if I am privately asked to buy off a ticket or a service in Thailand.
I just want to say that we would like to pass judgment on a local agent in a country where a large part still lives close to the poverty line, but turn a blind eye to the fact that hundreds of millions are being concealed in the Netherlands and billions are distributed at European level to countries that are highly score on the corruption index. Naturally, economic interests play a major role here, and so do the remuneration of the “captains of industry” and supervisory directors (from politics). So butter on the head! But it always gives a nice feeling when you have the idea that you are standing on top of something, so add another tub!
Irrelevant text removed.
I have been confronted with corruption once. That was when I dropped a cigarette butt on the floor in downtown Bangkok. There is a fine of 2.000 baht. I wrote a column about this 'incident':
The art of bribing
In the center of Bangkok there is a heavy penalty for soiling the street. Anyone caught will be fined 2000 baht (then 40 euros). Yet the streets are not spotless. As long as there is no police around, you run no risk. I knew about the fine, but I had lit a cigarette anyway. Read more: http://tinyurl.com/kkfdo33
On a Saturday night we got a call, the Sattahip police on the line.
My wife's son was arrested for possession and sale of jabaa.
If my wife brought 130000 (one hundred and thirty thousand) Thb to the office, the charge of sale would be dropped and he would be off in a few months.
We were stunned, my wife knew nothing, her son had a decent job in a hotel in Pattaya.
And what mother wouldn't want to spare her son years in jail?
The problem, however, was that we live in the Isaan and could not bring 130000 to Sattahip.
After some phone calls, our son's boss was willing to advance the money and take it to the police station. So it happened, but the next day the boss of the hotel was called if he wanted to collect the money again, because too many people already knew about it and the press already knew that it was also about trade. So he was finally sentenced to 2,5 years in prison and now we are fighting corruption in prison.
My father-in-law was stopped in front of my house and arrested for possession of ganja. At the police station, the bail was 500000 baht, but since it was already later in the afternoon, I would act as guarantor the next day. went to the bank and withdrawn 500000 baht and back to the police station where my brother-in-law had just arrived from Bangkok, my brother-in-law was told if he had been there yesterday we could have taken our father-in-law for 10000 baht but since the Pitsanulok police were there now this was no longer possible, but the deposit was immediately reduced to 300000 baht and now the crux, my brother-in-law's father was chief of police here until a few years ago and now retired, so as others claim, corruption applies and power certainly in Thailand. I don't want to say that if we snap our fingers, things will happen, but in this situation it does.
If I knew that I would never be caught for participating in corruption, I want to be very honest
are…….yes I certainly would. But for a considerable amount.
Moral:::, Yes I am corrupt!!
@Johannes @leon: Tino Kuis's question was not to give examples of corruption in TH, but whether we farang cooperate in corruption. So actually I'm curious how Johannes deals with the corruption in prison, and whether or not Leon uses possibilities from his family?
best Soi
I think you have to make a distinction between using Thailand's (proper, powerful) network structure and paying (or not) for services and transgressions. In the first case there may be legal inequality (you should actually pay, but because you know 'someone' you don't have to) and immoral behaviour; in the second case, payment is actually made to an unknown person (who usually represents the competent authority) in order to avoid a penalty, or to be done cheaper (and faster). I use my network(s) but do not pay for them. For example, a Thai customs official erred by stamping my passport as if I were a tourist when I returned from a trip to Cambodia. However, I have an annual visa because I work here. During my interview at the immigration office, I hand over a letter from the president of my university in which he writes that apparently the officer at the border made a mistake and overlooked my annual visa stamp. I use my network but don't pay anyone.
Exactly @Chris, I make that distinction too. That is why I am curious about the further experiences of Johannes and Leon. Incidentally, it seems to me that calling for help from your employer because of a wrong stamp in your passport has nothing to do with the subject of the conversation.
best Soi. You see that wrong. There are also employers who – in appropriate and difficult cases with visas or work permits for foreign employees – give the Human Resources employee or the relevant foreigner a stack of banknotes to arrange matters to their satisfaction.
Am I mistaken if I think enlisting help from an employer with immigration issues has nothing to do with corruption? After all, in your example you didn't use someone from HR with a stack of banknotes? That was your plea, wasn't it? See to it yourself not to participate, either actively or passively, in any kind of corrupting, except holding that strange hand of police officers: that's what matters to him, not the offense!
Dear Chris, using a network is of course also a form of corruption. You do not pay any money, but you make use of the feudal rulers in Thailand. In the west we call that “networking”. Irrelevant text from my previous comment has (unfortunately) been removed. It is precisely in this that I show that in the West through your so-called “networks” tens of billions disappear into the pockets of a limited elite group. I won't use the word "despicable", but personally I find this form of "bending legislation" worse than paying 200 baht to a "law enforcer" who puts 25 baht in his own pocket and has to pay the rest to those same connections in your network.
Of course we can all play the “holy bean”, but I am sure that there is not a foreigner living in Thailand who would object to paying a fine of 1,000 baht for 200 baht.
dear Bacchus…
I object to that and NEVER do. But I will fight if I am wrongly ticketed.
And if using networks is corruption, breathing is theft. After all, that oxygen depends on the amount of oxygen of other people.
I (and my wife especially) use our networks to FIGHT corruption and other immoral and inappropriate behavior. We call the police if the taxi driver refuses to transport us or does not want to turn on the meter (with the number of the taxi). We call the police if a Thai or a foreigner is exploited by local police officers. We call the police when a drunk husband threatens his ex-wife in our condo building with a knife. But we do not step into the breach for people who have gotten themselves into trouble (alcohol, gambling, illegal work, multiple men/women).
You ask me if I use the possibilities to deploy my family, there is only one answer for me, no, I am not involved in illegal things and on the street I never pay the Thai police like that, see my previous posts about this. I myself find it very reprehensible and totally disagree with my described situation, but I am in the middle of it and according to my wife I should not interfere because otherwise the police would have asked for a higher sum of money for us to having a falang in the family, very true.
anti corruption,
I was once stopped for keeping to the right a little too long, after I had stopped properly,
Said the agent that I had to pay 200 baht…… I don't know how I came up with it, but
I said Holland ….. football and put mn. thumbs up and a good laugh…, The nice police
Tried to explain again that I had held right a little too long, and I replied
Holland football and mentioned some famous Dutch football players and put mn. thumbs up triumphantly again, he then understood that I could not speak Thai and English……….. I tried again
Holland football …… and of misery he let me drive on without a ticket,
Moral……. Always keep smiling and pretending in Thailand…….
By the way, I also hate food ball hhhaaaaaahaaah.
A poor woman without a helmet only pays five or ten baht and uncle agent can't even buy coffee with that…..
Greetings Hazet.
Hi Tino,
Yes, we are corrupt too.
Arrested in the countryside.
A-where is the police station?
B-When you finally found that, will Uncle Cop be there with your driver's license?
C-How long is this all going to take?
So just 200 baht, that man can also buy tea.
Visa late.
That date is always written in red and large letters on my agenda.
But suppose - too late.
Then only pay 10 flaps X 2.
Have put on everything according to the rules 1 time.
Collision, absolutely not our fault, with motorbike.
Been to desk 4 times.
End of the song was just our salvation, as there is a reasonable. little english speaking chief gub was present and who simply said that maybe we were willing to give something.
We felt sorry for that guy, because his bike didn't look good.
We damage the rear screen, up to and including the front screen.
Why not drive fast.
Cost us about 25.000 in total.
So yes, we help.
I'm very indignant if they want to lift us. -:)
LOUISE
We as foreigners are of course much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of corruption.
When I read the comments, in most cases there is abuse of power and blackmail from the police to pay. The foreigners here are the victims of an ordinary robbery (Your money, or I'll hurt you!)
The responsibility for corruption lies with the police at the highest ranks and with the Thai government. Furthermore, this behavior is too often considered normal within Thai society and is even lightly justified or sometimes even fiercely defended by many people on this blog.
To that extent, foreigners cooperate in keeping corruption instantaneous.
In the case of a "real" violation of the law, I have the impression that it is indeed taken into account that foreigners are involved. This is where the 'double pricing' (also often justified) system comes into play. The foreigner and his family are put under pressure (extorted) and are therefore also victims here.