Much has already been said on this blog about the nature and cause of the political crisis and protest wave that grips Thailand. In those comments, one element often remains underexposed. Much more than the supposed differences in income or between urban (Bangkok) and rural areas, delusions of superiority separate the two camps. Expressed in the obsession with skin color that many Thais have: the whiter part of the country looks down on the darker fellow people from the North and more specifically the Northeast.
You will find that element in arguments against holding elections. The 'yellow camp' (including foreigners who feel more at home there) often argues the 'corruptibility' of the population in the North-Eastern part of the country. That's where the people live who don't look beyond the end of their noses, the 'poor sluts who don't have anything to do with Satan' and therefore surrender themselves helplessly to a corrupt power-hungry like Mr. T. “The people with a little education don't fall for that . Only the losers without a bit of money and prospects still fall for that!” one commenter wrote about them.
Protest leader Suthep says it even more plastically from the various stages. There in the Northeast there are too many "ignorant, uneducated water buffaloes". Unfortunately, there are so many of those suckers and water buffaloes that parliamentary elections should not be held, after all, the poor wretches will again vote the wrong people into power.
But, you will argue, many of the people who are protesting now are originally from the countryside, including the Northeast. Why should they look down on their 'roots'? Well, that may be the result of a phenomenon that is also occurring elsewhere. In Germany, for example, many ex-GDR citizens who fled to the West before the fall of the Wall suffer from the Ossie syndrome: they look down upon and do not want to be identified with the 'Ossies' who only automatically become German. Or look at the 'old' immigrants who have acquired some status in their new homeland. They often react even more than natives to 'new' entrants.
In Thailand, the idea of superiority is almost genetically determined and not of today or yesterday. The Thai who manage to look a bit over the fence around their country see backward areas inhabited by underdeveloped beings. In fact, for the sake of convenience, they place those fences on their own territory. For example, "you are a Lao" was a common insult. Something like 'you're a stupid farmer', we just need you for our daily plate of rice.
You find that looking down on translated into economic deprivation and into generalizations. Popular on blogs are that all hookers in Thailand are from the Isaan. Or 'Isaan-type' is used to characterize Thai women who only enter into relationships with white foreigners driven by the lust for money.
The statement can also be illustrated with a look at the political map. A completely blue strip (Democrats) from North to the deep South on the west side of the country, a completely red area (Pheu Thai) in the North and East. There is no political party that even remotely succeeds in breaking through these boundaries. The fact that the two largest parties within their 'area of influence' have supporters among all layers of the population once again confirms the correctness of the statement: delusions of superiority keep the Thai separate. Postponing elections will not change that. On the contrary, taking away voting rights will only reinforce the feeling of being a second-class citizen among the population in the red areas. With all its consequences.
In short, the delusion of superiority ensures that Thailand consists of two camps and this keeps the Thai separate. Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Then leave a comment and tell us why.
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Suthep (so-called “democratic” party) does not want elections, kicks a mess and tries to prevent registration and close Bangkok on January 13, possibly that he wants to provoke a coup, even then there will be no elections. The hangers-on in Bangkok sometimes get money to do things, I know a pickup driver who gets 3000 TB a day, for example. The whole origin discussion is meant to throw sand in the eyes of the Western media. The 2nd university of Thailand is located in Khon Kaen Khon Kaen and Udon Thani are growing against the rocks and will partly take over the economy of Bangkok, also because water is a threat to Bangkok, the city can be flooded. The center of gravity moves to the North East of Thailand. Men who start something with Thai ladies from the hospitality industry always say that their girlfriend or wife has been a nurse or teacher, never lady of the night. Rich Thai girls don't easily find a partner in their own environment with a foreigner, unless the foreigner has to be wealthy themselves, then they recognize the environment. De facto just like in the Netherlands and Belgium, the ladies there don't go with vague older men who live in cafes, understandable. Skin color discussion is also going on worldwide, it may just be that if more affluent dark-skinned people come and it becomes fashionable again, it is a non-discussion. There are white people in the USA who don't like Obama because he has an African American appearance. Unfortunately, discrimination will always be there as long as there are people. One must rise above that. In Thailand it is important that there are free elections on February 2, the voice of the people must speak, not the voice of violence and groups that want to stop elections. It is bad enough what is happening now all, killing for trade and industry and tourism. I read in the press that the Thai FBI is looking for Suthep, he has to report now.
Benno van Molen.
Bravo about your oh so beautifully written response.
Where I live in the north of Thailand, not only stupid rice farmers live.
That are for sale for one vote.
The majority of those demonstrators in Bangkok are also on the payroll of their great leader .
Jan Beute.
I fully endorse this statement. Besides the North-East (Isan), the people from the North are treated in the same way. Let me just call the two groups 'yellows' and 'reds' for the sake of convenience. The following examples come from various websites and speeches from the podium at the Democracy Monument.
What the 'yellows' say. Thaksin and his 'clan' are often condemned because they are not real 'Thai' but actually Chinese. Yingluck is called a 'whore' because all women from the North are whores. Pathonpong Charoenwat says on his FB page 'Fed up with red-shirt farangs. Go and die'. Boonsong Chaletorn (professor of economics) says from the podium that half of the police are 'Cambodian soldiers'. When the journalist Nick Nostitz was beaten up as a 'redshirt lover' in early December, there was a flood of insults towards him on various FB pages. The atmosphere on these websites is one of ultra-nationalism and narrow-mindedness with a suspicious image of the enemy aimed at groups in society.
Are the 'reds' that much better then? There too you will find some examples of insults, almost always aimed at Suthep as a person, often delivered with humor and irony. But the atmosphere is much more international, more open and there is less 'groupthink'. Foreigners are treated with respect and quoted. There is more substantive discussion, and of a higher level, than on the 'yellow' websites. The sense of superiority ("superiority delusion" is better) of the "yellows" is misplaced.
From conversations with people here in the North it appears that people are very aware of the condescending attitude of 'Bangkok' towards the 'outer regions'. Here in the North I regularly heard people jokingly (?) say: 'we should separate and elect a president'. The gulf between the two camps is large and growing. The 'reds' feel unfairly sidelined, just as their expectations of a better society were increasing. They are, I think rightly so, frustrated and angry, a dangerous situation. They will not accept a postponement of the elections.
Boy young.
The redshirts are “humorous and ironic”?
If you want to label threats with firearms, beating up political opponents, threatening “yellow shirts” as humorous and ironic, then there is a wrong connection to reality somewhere.
Both the Reds and the Yellows are xenophobic, with the understanding that the Yellowshirts may be a bit more private.
And the atmosphere at the redshirts more international?
Come on anyway.
Nevertheless, I can go a long way with you in assessing the relationship between Bangkok and the rest of Thailand.
That the situation for the poor was actually improving is quite questionable, the 300 baht minimum wage has caused a price increase twice, put many people out of work, the rice troubles have benefited not the poor but the rich traders, and the idiocy to provide Thailand with an HSL has also caused a lot of controversy.
And if I listen around, the daily wage in the Isan is well below 300 baht.
You could say that the support of Peu Thai is declining considerably, the previous voters feel cheated not only by Bangkok but also by Peu Thai.
That the division between rich and poor is getting bigger, well, where in the world isn't that the case.
The danger is indeed lurking in Thailand of unrest.
Whether this will be between Thai and Thai or between Thai and the 10% of the wealthy, I would say, remains to be seen.
A racial explosion such as has happened in Indonesia and the Philippines, and threatens in Vietnam, would not be impossible at all, given the distribution of wealth in Thailand.
But, I think it will all work out.
The poor, the middle class, basically everyone, is actually busy with the most important thing: survival.
Yes, we can clearly see and say that the country is controlled and economically driven by an ethnic group (Thai-Chinese) they basically control everything, from the fertilizer wholesaler or where the farmer buys his tractor, the owners of land , the local supermarkets, the doctor, the rice, fruit and rubber traders and so on. We see this reflected at a local level (just look in your own amphur) and this phenomenon naturally continues at a provincial and national level. We do know that the country is ruled by a large clique (families and friends) in other words nepotism is rampant here, it seems that politically Thailand is number 1 in the world with nepotism. The country may be close to a major revolution because only a good revolution could bring some changes. Think of the events of 98 in Indonesia where Suharto and his clique were deposed. I think we're headed this way with the military on high alert.
Dear namesake,
I resist terms like "Thai-Chinese"; and dividing Thais into 'ethnic' groups and making statements about them. That is precisely the root of all misery. Here in the North, the hill tribes will have to pay for it and soon my son who is a 'loek khreung', a half-blood, isn't it, half Thai, half Dutch, not a real Thai and not a real Dutch either. I do agree with you that there is a wealthy and powerful group in Thailand that does not want to relinquish control.
Tino
Moderator: please don't chat
I couldn't have worded it better. After 17 years of Calif and 3 years of Alabama, I see the same symptoms. Poor (ignorant) and rich (arrogant) cannot go through the same door. The struggle in Thailand is no different. Thaksin violently abuses this by buying the (poor) votes. Unfortunately, a majority of votes for the yellows and so if T. is re-elected again, the family has a free hand. I imagine the gels won't allow that. An insurmountable dilemma. Only a better distribution of wealth can bring about change and in my view that will not happen. Thailand is not ready for that yet. I understand both parties. It will probably end in a coup and in the worst case a civil war. Unfortunately also that no interference from the farang is tolerated. They will soon have to rely on the international community. Mai pen rai attitude no longer works. What bothers me very much is that mr. T. has fled (to a country where the rich on earth partisan) and his sister is going on holiday to the north when thailand is on the edge of the abyss, instead of being 100% in for Thailand and not themselves. The gels in power is not the best either, but it is the only solution for now. Isaan now has to focus on giving their children a good education and developing themselves and perhaps listening better to the farang.
Dear Tino yes I see what you mean but of course we shouldn't beat around the bush, maybe it's discriminatory but that's not what I mean by it. As we say in the Netherlands, the animal has a name and we should address it with that. Just like here in Isan one is addressed as being Lao or in some parts Khmer. Again, not racist or anything like that.
Discrimination is practiced in (almost) all countries, and it is most prevalent among blacks. See the wars in Africa. As far as Thailand is concerned, I see the following, because I don't understand it, in all soaps (and there are quite a few) on Thai TV, the rich are whiter than the staff. So this is just rubbed in. With us in the Netherlands, Zwarte Piet is no longer allowed if it is up to some people. So here it is!
What I also hear from the villagers where I live (Isaan) that when they go to work on the rubber plantations in the south and want to go home, they just don't get paid, or much less than agreed. And then complain about lack of staff, do you think it's crazy?
Moderator: Your comment should be about Thailand.
You don't actually have to go to Thailand to experience that feeling of superiority of some Thais, because they also export it.
My own wife also comes from the Isaan region, and has a somewhat darker complexion. She has been working for years in a factory where several Thai ladies work, but it is obvious that some ladies, from the Bangkok area, feel somewhat superior, or “ whiter” than them (.And they are whiter, too, though.)
This results in her getting on well with fellow Isaan ladies, having fun together at the Som-Tam, playing cards, exchanging photos from home, etc, etc, but only having the much needed contact with the paler skins, which is of course accompanied by a generous, but unintentional thai smile.
It is also often the case that these "would-be secretaries of Thaksin" have a somewhat better-off farang as a partner, and therefore often appear at work with a new very expensive handbag, or an even more expensive wristwatch, to show that she's doing so well.
It even strikes me as a farang, although it took me a while to realize it, and I must say that I was annoyed at first.
Because I reasoned like this: you are looking for a better life than what you had, but as soon as you are here you will look at the fellow Thais in the neck, because they come from a different (say farming) region than yourself .and therefore less, and actually do not fit into your new Dutch paradise.
If I followed their reasoning, the undersigned would have to look down on these ladies again, because I don't come from a developing country, and what could be whiter than a Dutch cheese head?
But that's how you keep the (covered) discrimination nicely maintained, and you shouldn't want that.
That was actually the first time I came to dislike some Thais, because I don't like that practice. Although I do realize that it is almost ineradicable, and will demand a spiritual change from the Thais, and whether they are willing to do so?
I am therefore afraid that things will not go well in this area for the time being, both here and in Thailand.
Moderator: comment on the article and not just each other that is chatting.
Delusions of superiority keep the Thai separate.
This is true in many parts of the world, such as education and career, medical care, etc.
The skin color thing is all over Asia I think. Westerners want to look tan, because that means you can afford a vacation. For Asians, brown is associated with outdoor work.
By the way, my girlfriend wonders why farang are more interested in isaan, if this is true at all. True creates a distinction between people, while that is actually odious. Regrettably.
The statement reads: delusions of superiority keep the Thai separate. Do I agree? Absolutely not. I do not deny that there are major differences in education, income and wealth between the north and north-east and what is then called Bangkok for the sake of convenience. But there is also a south where many farmers live (not in rice, but in rubber, oil and fruit) and where the main tourist centers are (such as Phuket and the islands).
Just as in the Netherlands the people of the Randstad look at the people of Groningen, Limburg and the Achterhoek, the Bangkokians look at the countryside. Different, perhaps less, but not under the impression that they are so much less that we would not want to talk, eat and make friends with them. Hardly possible because many rural areas have moved to cities such as Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya to earn their rice. The poor are not only in Isan, there are a lot of poor people in Bangkok. And there is a growing group of rich people in the rural cities: Phuket, Khon Kaen, Udonthani, Korat. Countryside and cities need each other. Food is produced in the countryside, while most of the GDP and taxes are produced in the cities.
What divides and keeps Thai divided, in my opinion, is:
– that politicians do not tell the truth about the interdependence of urban and rural areas;
– that politicians do not clearly state that government measures are paid for by the taxpayer and not by a political party or the gunner(s) operating behind it;
– that the Thai are kept ignorant of the truth by the poor education system as well as by patronage and the (poor quality i.e. one-sidedness of the) mass media so that the elites can continue to play the masses.
The people who are a bit dark are the heart working ones
go into the interior countries we do that with the moped
Then you can see what those people do
And if you are poor you may not be able to afford the school
Go look in a hotel The people who work hard to clean things up
What kind of dirt a Thai leaves behind The cleaners don't get tidy either
By the Thai who has treated it better We prefer to go inland The people are sweet, honest and sincere
A thai who is well off Looks contemptuously at a thai who is less fortunate
It is an article that can lead to a lot of discussion and opinions.
But now we look around the world.
We start with Belgium: The beautiful country is divided into 3 parties, the Flemish, Walloons and Brussels residents. Besides the language discussion, there is also the political discussion that the Flemish do not want to pay for the Walloons and that the people of Brussels go their own way. Even in this civilized country it is difficult to get everything in line. You would almost have to split the country.
Then we bring in Syria and Egypt where the religious differences turn into brutal massacres.
They kill their own compatriots only on the basis of a different opinion and / or religion.
We can still name many countries, but now focus on Thailand.
In this country we have a small group of educated people and an even smaller group of highly educated people. In addition, we have a very large group of low-skilled people and also illiterates.
Below the words democracy and corruption explained in Asian:
Democracy => Editing groups of people to recruit and proxies as much as possible
to collect votes in order to gain power
Corruption => First of all, this word in Asia is a verb
=> The lawful collection of monies that do not require performance
Westerners have a different explanation, but I believe it was thought the same 80 years ago.
In Thailand we have the poor North, about which the Bangkokker and people from the tourist cities are very negative because they are just peasants and whores, so to speak.
The southerners feel better than the northerners and therefore join the "yellow shirts".
Suthep stands up for rubber farmers (especially in the South) and tackling corruption.
Many students support his vision, even though certain things seem impossible.
Resigning as PM finds Yingluck a loss of face and does not expect to come to power again.
In Europe, a PM in whom there is so little confidence would resign. The public is not after the fall of Yingluck but more her older brother Thaksin, who according to the Thais has done many good things, but has also filled his own pockets.
As the well-known saying goes: “a socialist carries his wallet on the right”.
Now that it has been announced today that protests and riots will be prepared again from January 13, I am afraid that the elections will be declared invalid, giving the Suthep group its way.
I have never seen a country (in the last 40 years) where so much has to be done => economic, democratic, political, humanitarian, infrastructure and employment, where the politicians rage against each other so that they do not move forward come.
At the moment they are coming up with measures (just like in the Netherlands) that will generate money in the short term and that no one can resist. Example: excise duty increase in October.
Fortunately, this only counts for the Thais, because the falling depreciation of the baht makes Thailand cheaper for foreigners.
The result is an increasing crime, because you should not take away the Thai's alcohol.
Recently my friend was offered a closed bottle of Johnny Walker Black Label for 500 baht.
The man needed money to buy his Yaabah.
I expect that in the current situation the saying "Pride comes before a fall" applies and that after the elections of February 2 next we are just as far as 3 months ago and that it is only about power. So expect many promises in the coming weeks that will be negative for the Thai economy on balance.
I'm afraid this will lead to Egyptian situations, because they are now considering deploying the army to prevent the riots, but Action is Reaction.
I think the latter is closer than we think.
And there are only losers left!
I couldn't have expressed your opinion any better. I hold my breath!! Perhaps it is already too late and we should prepare for a possible civil war. With all my brains left I can't imagine a solution to this stalemate. It will turn out to be what is happening in the north african continent, egypt, tunisia, libya, sirya. Anyone who thinks they have a solution given the current situation, please write on this blog!!!!!!!!
Moderator: only comments on the statement will be posted.
The (political) situation has nothing to do with superiority, but everything with power and therefore especially money! There are problems wherever there are gigantic differences in income and wealth. Look at all the former Russian states, African and South American countries where this phenomenon occurs; shit everywhere! Wim Sonneveld once sang a beautiful song about it: Money, money, money, money, what all those people don't do for all that beautiful money……. A man of the world and a true seer, in this regard! Now that things are going less in the west, you will find this in the Netherlands, for example, in a “Polen hotline”, because they take all jobs – and therefore money –! In those times, devils always rise up; for your own honor and glory, but above all power and money; throwing sacks of sand in the eyes of the less fortunate. And within those yellow and red camps: “Whose bread one eats, whose word one speaks!”
If there is a feeling of superiority at all, it probably only plays a role among the elite and those in political power.
I am responding specifically to the comment in this statement about the political map.
“The fact that the two largest parties within their 'area of influence' have support among all layers of the population once again confirms the correctness of the statement: delusions of superiority keep the Thai separate”
The map is mainly colored red and blue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011
This color distribution is the result of a district electoral system, in which 75% of the seats in a district go to the largest party anyway. With 40% of the vote you can theoretically win 100% of the parliamentary seats in a district. To win in a district all you need is the Thai clientelistic system. Each village still has its feudal structures and its local influential families, on which a large part of the population depends or wants to depend.
For normal political parties (yes, those with a real ideology) there is therefore no right to exist, because your voice is completely lost in this system. To win in a district, you must have the village chief or rather the Tambon boss behind you. An electoral system like in the Netherlands, where your vote has a good chance of not being lost (0,7% entitles you to a seat), is not suitable for the elite in Thailand.
So to win elections you need a large sum of money, which will flow from top to bottom. If you have won the elections, a much larger flow of money will flow from the bottom up again. This is the Thai earnings model for the elite. The “Yellows” have their territory and the “Reds” theirs. Both sides have an interest in pitting their power bases against those of the other side.
So my conclusion is that none of this has much to do with delusions of superiority. But more with playing the Thai people on their place of residence and ethnicity. This still works pretty well. Furthermore, the district system ensures that the power of both the Sutheps and the Thaksins will be guaranteed for a long time to come.
I am against the statement, because I find any discussion about more or minorities, and skin colors in and among the peoples absurd. Completely unnecessary.
Eugenio has articulated the system in Thailand very well. My wife comes from a wealthy and therefore influential family that has been running the village and everything around it for 2 generations. The family has won every election for years and still celebrates here. I think it's ridiculous and I always have a good reason not to attend these victory parties.
For example, if I buy a TV in a shop, put money on the table for it, I don't celebrate because I now have that TV at home?. No of course not. I just paid for it and so I know in advance that I will also get it home. My family pays money to the poor villagers to get the victory ( buy their vote ) and celebrates this when it succeeds. Ridiculous. In Thailand, victories over the political opponent are simply bought.
I don't know this kind of democracy and I have no experience with it. I prefer to stay as a guest, keep myself out of the Thai political mess and enjoy the nice weather, delicious food and the beautiful Thai nature. And I already have a day's work on that.
And then when I see on TV that the so-called poor northerners are carted to Bangkok by bus to possibly smash each other's heads at demos, or even shoot at each other, I switch to a channel with kickboxes. Because there is a referee who intervenes if one plays against the rules.
That delusions of superiority are dormant in every human being can be seen again from a single reaction, in which some remarks and comparisons from serious reactions are regarded as absurd with a pedantic finger. This, while similar equations are also used in the theorem. Characteristic of superiority (madness) is, among other things, that only one is right!
The statement mentions a lot of things, such as light versus dark tinted (read ethnic origin), educated versus uneducated, rich versus poor, decent ladies versus hookers, etcetera. If I interpret it correctly, the persons with the first mentioned characteristics/characteristics are invariably in the yellow camp and the other group in the red camp. If you simply state that the first mentioned characteristics / properties are seen as very positive and the second as extremely negative, you could simply say that the yellow look down on the red and feel superior to the red one. The question now is whether these contradictions, which, according to the statement, lead to an alleged feeling of superiority, actually cause the schism/division in Thai society.
I think this is a bit simplistic! Undoubtedly, these differences will play a role in the background, but I think the real problem lies in the (semi-)feudal system that still prevails in Thailand. There is a small elite group in Thailand that controls power and wealth and distributes it at will among “confidants”. Since this elite is mainly located in and around Bangkok, it is not surprising that this is also the stronghold of the yellows. In the north and north-east, the elite have little or no economic interests; at most land, but that yields relatively little in agricultural use. Little investment was therefore made in that region, which also explains the poverty. Incidentally, this has been changing rapidly in recent years; some provinces are currently developing at a breakneck pace. The result of the disinterest of the elite in these regions has resulted in the population not feeling heard and represented in politics, among other things. They also feel economically and financially disadvantaged. Politically, Thaksin, for example, has cleverly responded to this. He has once again fueled the fire for electorate gain, which has led to the enormous division in society.
No superiority, just power and money what matters.
I will undoubtedly be wrong again, but I think the statement is “superiority delusions keep the Thai separate”. Finally, you ask whether the readers agree with your statement that delusions of superiority divide Thailand into two camps and keep the Thai separate. With this I think you explicitly state that delusions of superiority are the cause of the divorce. Now you say again that with (or in) the statement you do not claim that delusions of superiority are the cause, but are only an element, which is also not or hardly addressed in the analyzes and reactions on this blog. So we are talking about a statement that has suddenly acquired a completely different content and/or dimension! Do you mind if I don't understand one iota of it?! It is of course also possible that the writer no longer understands or ever understood his own thesis!
You are absolutely right that "finding it absurd" is not a sign of finger peddling. You literally state that someone else's writings are ridiculous, ridiculous or idiotic, because that's what absurd stands for. Simplistically would have been less offensive here, but apparently your vocabulary is different.
If you also read carefully – difficult, I know – and are less quick to judge, you will understand that other commenters only want to clarify their point of view with their comparison. But apparently it suddenly becomes absurd! Delusion of superiority?
Furthermore, in all your superiority, you may be right again!
There are two aspects of this fine discussion that I would like to highlight in terms of the "Bangkok" and "rural" dichotomy.
In the first place, I have the impression that the economy in the provinces is growing faster than in Bangkok. I don't remember the exact numbers but I recently read that the economy in Isaan grew 6 percent in the past (40?) years while that of Bangkok only grew 12 percent. Forgive me if these numbers don't quite add up, I'm pointing out a trend. A few days ago I visited Chiang Kham in Phayao province (the North), where I lived for 10 years and had not been for a year. I noticed how the economy boomed: more businesses and shops; better houses, infrastructure and maintenance; and more irrigation. The education level of the population has risen by leaps and bounds in the past 15 years. Delusions of superiority often arise from a certain fear, the fear that other groups will outshine your own group, and I think Bangkok is afraid of the province, and fear is a bad adviser.
Secondly, there is the fact that it is precisely at the local level (the tambon, for example) that much more is being done about politics. The 1997 and 2007 Constitutions mandate that many powers previously vested in the bureaucracy (read Bangkok) are now exercised by local governments, complete with elections, meetings and their own budget. That gave the population a taste of democracy such as consultation, argumentation, compromise, voting and accepting the majority. That the rural population is still passive when it comes to politics is a myth that unfortunately still prevails in the 'Bangkok' camp. Perhaps we should replace 'delusions of superiority' with 'ignorance'.
dear tina,
The contrast between Bangkok and the countryside is a reality in terms of landscape, but in other areas a contradiction that is partly maintained (by the people who benefit from it) that - fortunately - is less and less in line with reality. I have been coming to the south of Thailand for about 7 years now and to the north of Thailand for 4 years.
The migration of Thai people to the cities (in search of work) has created an urban proletariat in the cities. People who work in the informal sector and earn absolutely no 300 baht a day. The farmers in the south are not poor and I have never named them as Hans claims. How could I. Have an ex-girlfriend who is from the south and her family (agrarians) were wealthy and could send their children to college in Bangkok.
If there is any delusion of superiority (and I dispute it), it is artificially perpetuated by the elites of all colors. They feel much better than the common people. If you have a lot of money you are still highly regarded in Thailand. The poorer, the lower. The rural economy is indeed growing more than in Bangkok. This will become even more with the AEC if the companies can find the right employees. A newcomer in the top 50 Forbes list of richest Thai is an entrepreneur in Khon Kaen.
The World Bank has already written that education is THE key to more employment, the reduction of the gap between rich and poor and for democracy. Let's hope that that ministerial post will one day have a man or woman with vision and decisiveness. The Yingluck government already has its fourth education minister: no one wants to do that thankless job. There is little progress to report there. A professor recently commented: as long as we are more concerned at the university about the appearance and uniform of the students than about whether the students actually learn anything, we still have a long way to go…..
Moderator: You've been chatting for a while, please stop.
Dear Hans,
what I find discriminatory is to make fun of the poor, blackmail them in some form for their vote and once elected you don't give a damn about the conditions in which those people live. Sometimes even worse: promulgate measures (such as a lower tax on a first car and the credit card for farmers) that only encourage consumerism and only increase the debt burden. (see also top martin's response of 3 January). That's a great bubble that will burst someday. A few more notes:
– was in Isan with friends for 5 days and saw the petrol pump every day to pay for the petrol for the other family members. All a new pick-up but no money to pay for the gas.
– Einstein already said: if you do the same as before, you should not expect the result to be different.
– the possible delusion of superiority does not separate the reds from the yellows, but the elite from the rest of Thailand (farmers, citizens and countrymen).
In my opinion, there is only 1 real democratic solution: postponement of the elections, resignation of the government, an acting cabinet that starts a public discussion about reforms, asks political parties to put their ideas about reforms on paper (in a kind of program that addresses the most important problems in this country and proposes solutions) and thereby request a mandate from the voters. Preferably, everyone is excluded from the election lists who have been on them in the past 10 years.
A plurality complex is ingrained in the Thai from birth from historical-feudal and Buddhist-religious structures. But also the reverse. They themselves know very well what to do with it. Resigned acceptance is a great asset to them. Never mind that materialistic structures also determine their behaviour. And how! Nevertheless, I do not believe that a Bankokian rejects an Isanian on the basis of color, descent and/or status. One does vote Yellow, and the other Red because of unfamiliarity, ignorance, conflicts of interest, distrust, own skin, don't know any better, in the absence of an alternative, and so on, such as: customary to do, or because everyone is doing it . Traits and behaviors that often make Man so obnoxious, but which can be traced back to the Fall, (of which the Thai variant is explained in another article on Thailandblog.) Nothing human is alien to the Thai. Not envy and jealousy, not opportunism, and certainly not the pursuit of profit. Then you will get that you think you are more, or that you are being shortchanged. See Dutch politics. But a Thai rather looks at how someone behaves, and pays attention to someone's character and personality.
When the Red Shirts marched through the streets of BKK in 2010, a shopkeeper grumbled on BVN News that she was very disappointed. There had been no trade business for quite some time. The marching Redshirts ignored her affair. She couldn't understand the street movement. “All farmers. No education. So uncivilised!” was her comment. And she twisted her face in an ugly grimace! The outcome of all that marching won't have relaxed her face.
But yes, since 2011 she has added a grumbling point, namely: the large capital ThaiBaht that has been used to finance the warehouses full of rice. And she's starting to be right because the Jasmine is rotting. The smell is off. She believes that the government (has) provided many benefits to “all farmers”. To her, the current conflict is clear: she, the Advantaged against us, the Injured. The latter are smaller in number, but against corruption. Plus that people, the Yellows, want to know what the government is doing. She wants the government to take measures in favor of everyone, and not just for 'its own group'. For the sake of convenience, she does not consider that her Yellow government did not either, nor how badly the 'farmers' are affected by the BKK's threatening water being diverted every year through the rural lands. Would she know about it?
However, current unrest is not only motivated by personal displeasure. Of course it plays a part, and of course it happens that one dirty looks down, and another meekly looks up. It's just what you feel comfortable with. Isn't the farang strange. Nevertheless, on a different level and on a larger scale than personal attitude, Thais recently saw that, for example, in negotiations with the EU on mutual free trade, the government wants parliament to play outside. The government wants free rein. No hearings, no interference from parliament, no necessity studies. However, this leads to a lack of transparency, reduces democratic control and promotes corruption. The Yellowshirts say they will no longer tolerate all this. Not all of them: a civil society has emerged: an emerging middle class that wants the right to examine legislation and to ask questions about policy. That field wants to be sure that the government conducts good policy and that legislation is done transparently. They also want to be able to call the government to account and ensure that it is held accountable. And not only to an upper layer of the financially powerful, the traditionally elitists, the big owners. Who are reported to have their internal position under pressure because of crumbling influence, and whose attitudes must change at the behest of international interests. There are also sacred houses in Thailand. In the long run, I'd say quickly.
In short: there is more going on in Thailand than just that a population group is suffering from feelings of pity. Many Thai people are tired of the fake behavior of the current government. (And also, among other things, the lack of transparency about the billions that have to be pumped into water management, or the same with regard to a loan of several billions, for example for an HSL and other toys.) But all sections in Thailand have maneuvered themselves into a kind of transitional period. You have to learn democracy. If you want that. Just wait and see, I would say, whether this is the case. The (near) future will tell. But anyway: there is a beginning of democratic consciousness.
And take it from me that this awareness is a first acquaintance with many. And in my humble opinion it was not peacefully accomplished in any country. Hordes of Marechaussee, or Gerdarmerie, have also driven into crowds of people demonstrating for their rights on horseback and with drawn sabres in NL and BE. People were sacrificed back then. So you see, as with everything, you have to want to keep looking at it all in its proportion.
In Sa Kaeo there is a Thai Restaurant whose owner is a Chinese. Excellent quality food, with a slightly higher price. I have frequented this restaurant in the past, so was a regular customer. Now I don't go there anymore and a large part of our friends and acquaintances don't either. The reason is simple. If you drive there with a Mercedes, Audi or Volvo 80, you will be served earlier, so you will get your food earlier if you are at the door with a Toyota Hi-Lux or Isuzi D-Max High laender Pick-up. I spoke to him about this. His answer: I am the boss here and no further comment, was his reaction. Pretty obvious I would say?. Just stay away, get rid of it.
Apparently other guests thought so too?. It used to be full and you often didn't get a seat, now you can choose from a wide range of free seats every evening. It's a pity that I keep driving through. The food is really tasty. Difference between rich and poor? Difference between better educated (thus better earning) and the poor foot people? You don't have to drive to Isaan for that. You notice that already about 180 km outside of Bangkok.
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