Statement of the week: 'The 'Land of Smiles' does not exist and never has existed.'
This is how Ico Lyer described Thailand in 1988: 'A dream travel destination, with first class service at Third World country prices, the exotic mixed with elegance'.
He continues: 'An area of tranquility and Washington's bosom friend; the more the government changes the more the monarchy stays the same.' The nightlife does not go unmentioned: '…after the meal other desires are taken up, flashing neon lights of bars and discos and stately massage palaces.' Bangkok is the "Bargain Paradise of the East." The landscape is 'an orchid-scented garden with sparkling temples, lush forests, palm-fringed white beaches; here and there a Buddhist meditation center with smiling, courteous people. The main problem of the 'Land of Smiles' is simply that it is 'irresistible'.
The 'Lonely planet' talks about 'this friendly and fun-loving, exotic and tropical, cultural and historical land with its friendly smile'. A land of the 'Free', with a carefree, harmoniously coexisting population, all thanks to a hard-working elite.
There is a small problem: this ever-evoked image of the 'Land of Smiles', this land of unity and happiness, is a pure fabrication. Also throw most of the official history books in the trash.
As an expat with a good pension, I also lived in that delusion for years. Now that I've started reading more, talking to people more and taking a better look around me in recent years, thanks to Thailandblog, I know better.
Thailand is a divided country where groups in society are at each other's lives and hate each other in a terrible way. A country where lies often triumph. A country where, especially among the elderly, there is abject poverty in the midst of wealth. A country where freedom and justice are just words. A country where propaganda is mistaken for truth. A country where a bloody battle has been raging for years in the 'Deep South', which few care about. A country where it is especially important who your parents are and how much money you have. A country where in patron-client relationships the patron benefits greatly and the client may be happy with the occasional dry crust. A country where, God forbid, a revolution is not impossible.
In response to a reaction to Thailandblog 'Don't confront Thais', I asked my Thai teacher how this works. He smiled and said:
Suppose your neighbor is constantly throwing rubbish over your fence (Thais must also have a fence for their souls, he added). Then there are three possibilities:
- Your neighbor is higher on the social ladder than you. Then you clean up the mess yourself and you hide your anger and annoyance somewhere in your heart.
- Your neighbor is about the same level on the social ladder. Then you invite him to dinner and after a while you say between nose and lips 'annoying that there has been so much rubbish in my garden lately, I have no idea why'. Usually the problem is then solved.
- Your neighbor is lower on the social ladder. Then you roll down the window of your Mercedes and yell, 'Would you stop throwing that shit in my yard! Clean it up right away!'
Sometimes I doubt myself. Is what I wrote above nonsense, am I exaggerating, is there some truth to it or is it just true in general?
Help me and respond to the Statement: 'The Land of Smiles' does not exist and has never existed'
About this blogger
-
Born in 1944 in Delfzijl as the son of a simple shopkeeper. Studied in Groningen and Curacao. Worked as a doctor in Tanzania for three years, then as a general practitioner in Vlaardingen. A few years before my retirement I married a Thai lady, we had a son who speaks three languages well.
Lived in Thailand for almost 20 years, first in Chiang Kham (Phayao province) then in Chiang Mai where I liked to bother all kinds of Thai with all kinds of questions. Followed Thai extracurricular education after which a diploma of primary school and three years of secondary school. Did a lot of volunteer work. Interested in the Thai language, history and culture. Have been living in the Netherlands for 5 years now together with my son and often with his Thai girlfriend.
Read the latest articles here
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To the statement: The land of smiles does not exist and has never existed, I can answer wholeheartedly with YES it does exist!
I do understand what the statement is based on, because of all the misery in Thailand in recent years or centuries.
But because we always associate that smile with Thailand as being the friendly and hospitable country as we would like to see it all, the statement as described above now arises.
But that is precisely why I say YES, namely for a very simple reason, because the smile of a Thai (the Yim Tak Tai) represents much, much more than we think.
The smile is not only an expression of kindness for the Thai but can also express anger and shame and even sadness, a Thai will never reveal his emotions, who tries to hide it as much as possible behind his or her smile.
So I say YES the land of smiles exists, it's just how you interpret it.
After reading the comments, I notice that some bloggers react so negatively about Thailand, it seems as if they live there as a punishment or go on vacation and in certain comments I even read hate between the lines..
It is often the same people who first advertised Thailand in this way.
It is said in a response that children in Thailand are taught how to lie from an early age, does this also apply to families where the husband is a farang (Dutch) for example?
And let's be honest, we the farang have often asked to be cheated.
Are we setting a good example for the Thai? With how some of us behave in Thailand?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who see everything through rose-colored glasses.
I too have my negative experiences in Thailand, but they do not outweigh the positive experiences I have in Thailand and I have been coming and living here for decades.
But to paint a population of almost 70 million people over the same brush is going a bit far for me.
Of course there is a lot wrong in Thailand, and a lot has changed in the last 25 years or so, but we must not forget that social media has also played a very large role in this, people have become much more vocal and more informed, people can be very easy to communicate with each other.
Times change problems that were already there in Thailand and that we had never heard of are now entering our homes through the media.
Even though it is often much more extreme in Thailand when it comes to corruption and violence than in many other countries.
You cannot compare one country with another, you also have to take into account poverty and education, etc., and that cannot be compared to the Netherlands, for example, and if there is a shortage of education and money, then you already have the basis to make a country look like Thailand is now.
And if as I read it now many think that the Thai has a fake smile, or that the Thai has lost all his credit and no longer has the right to smile.
Let us, the farang, the tourist or expat, whatever you call it, at least keep smiling, because at least that smile of ours is real and we know how to do it all.
Unfortunately, the price of a young democracy, where corruption and status are strongly rooted! Or could it be after years of visiting, staying that Thailand has never been perfect like in our homeland.
Tino, your statement is excellent, I have had these thoughts for a long time and I completely agree with your statement. They are masters of keeping up appearances, every year they have nice slogans to promote Thailand as, land of free, land of smile, etc. But now after living in Thailand for 17 years and being married to a Thai, they are The scales fell before my eyes too.
I have been living in Thailand for 13 years and can fully share your opinion. The land of smiles ….hahaha ….the land of fake smiles! Also sounds much better and is reality . As a farang, they keep trying to rip you off. For the Thai, not telling the truth is not the same as lying… Children are taught from an early age how to lie in Thailand. Very sad that this happened here.
Be alert !
“The land of smiles” is a slogan for tourism and it still applies today. Thailand has a lot to offer the tourist and is still pampered by the Thais. The service of the Thai is great and everything is done with a smile. In my opinion, there is no country in the world – and I know many – that can match Thailand as a holiday destination.
Nothing negative then? Of course yes, tourists here can be confronted with crime, which can ruin a complete holiday. That cannot be justified, of course, but that can also be done elsewhere and often with a greater chance.
It's a different matter if you live in Thailand, like Tino. Thailand is currently in a massive government crisis, the outcome of which is uncertain. In my opinion, it is the growing pains towards a democracy that we know from many other countries. In the Netherlands we have had the Hook and Cod quarrels, we know the American and Spanish civil wars, the problems in Northern Ireland, to name but a few examples.
It is an immense problem in Thailand and the causes could well be well described in Tino's story. I do not judge that, it is a problem of the Thais themselves, they will have to solve it.
I am not Thai, I am Dutch and do not identify myself with the Thai people. As a farang I am still respected and treated well (with a smile). I consider myself a guest in this country and every day as a pensioner I fully enjoy everything this beautiful country offers me.
Don't come at me with "it used to be better", I can still hear my grandfather say it, I can still hear my father say it. Every country is going through a development in which a lot changes, which can sometimes – as is now the case in Thailand – hurt a lot. But eventually people will find their way to a democratically governed country, I have no doubts about that.
Thailand is still “The Land of Smiles”
Gringo, in my opinion an accurate representation. How can we expect that a development in Thailand could take place about 10x faster than it took us. Not fun and extremely painful, but one has to get through this to a new and better Thailand. And you will find that cheating mainly in places with concentrations of tourists and wintering Farangs. In the villages there is universal respect and yes if there is a Farang in the picture, this often means a better financial situation for the entire family. It is not surprising that the environment anticipates this and it also occurs in the Netherlands. Ultimately, in Amsterdam, taxi drivers with a foreigner in the car are more likely to drive around the block than with an Amsterdammer in the car.
“In the past” is romanticized too often, our brain retains pleasant memories better than negative ones, provided they are not traumatic in nature.
I still enjoy Thailand as much today as I did 35 years ago as a young businessman.
Paul
Right on the bullseye! I couldn't have said it better!
Spending your old age in Thailand, I'm not so sure yet.
Live in Thailand for 13 years and still feel happy here. Being greeted with a big smile every day
a restaurant where I eat makes me happy.
How you look at Thailand is of course subjective and determined by the individual. Some expats are immersing themselves in the matter and are very concerned about the current situation in the country. Still others shrug their shoulders and think the sun is shining again today, order a cool beer and enjoy.
In short, the optimists will think Thailand is a beautiful country and the pessimists wonder when the country will collapse. It's just how your hat looks.
Khan Peter,
There are pessimists, optimists and realists. The latter group sometimes also drinks a beer, also enjoys its time but does not shrug their shoulders, knows what is going on and sometimes, or often, takes it to heart. So it is not either-or but both-and.
Tino Kuis.
The realists that you credit yourself to (I presume) always forget reality.
The land of laughter has seen at least 50 coups d'état in the last 13 years.
And what has changed for the poor? Nothing. Unfortunately, the current struggles in Bangkok will not change that either. I am also a realist and I am sure that in Bangkok one elite group is trying to take power from the other elite group.
I'm doing well in the "land of smile" and don't care about politics in this country anymore.
For the tourist, Thailand is still a dream travel destination. For the tourist, Thailand is not only exotic, but also erotic. That dream will remain Thailand, despite all the squabbling in today's everyday delusion. Thailand has experienced this before. 1992 was an absolute low point. Yet tourism, the economy, the country recovered, and thousands of pensioners were added. Thousands! You and me too!
All descriptions notwithstanding, any pensioner breath can know that Thailand has been no more carefree than any other country in the region. Politically Thailand has never been quiet. 1992 may be 22 years ago, but events followed each other afterwards. As a result, the possessing, ruling elite, not always hardworking, was there for themselves. Thailand could therefore never grow into a nation with a harmoniously coexisting population. To an obedient, resigned nation, of which 80% of the population has always had to struggle day after day to get it right, and still do.
No country should be idealized. Every country has something beautiful, as a result of which you would like to live there. And there are always the dark sides. It is well-advised to be well aware of the reasons for coming to live in Thailand: after all, it is easier because of being able to start a new relationship again, some with a second leg of children. Yet also the appearance of a modern country, with fortunately low prices. People who interfere little or not with you, certainly not the authorities, and tolerate a lot.
Well, everyone knows it has its price! That too is Thailand.
Yes, and then that smile. Well, don't be fooled, and certainly not enchanted. In every country, at least most, and certainly in this Southeast Asian region, people smile and are friendly when it comes to service and service. And of course: the Thai people, by nature and from the Buddhist tradition, have a basic attitude towards the other. Not to all, but to those in the immediate vicinity. If you stand a little further away from it, that smile is also removed. Just look here in the Isaan: I have never seen so many grumpy looking people in a heap. Because of the worries, the sun, the hard existence. But when you get closer, the smile reappears.
What happened last year is happening because Thailand, like all surrounding countries, is transforming itself into a country based on more modern foundations. In many ways, Thailand has barely lost its status as a 3rd world country.
A modern state needs a democratic system: many do not like this because of the loss of power and influence, or because of ignorance and fear of the new.
This also includes the rule of law: that stands up for the common man and woman, and not just the wealthy elite with a hand above the head.
And: that includes the guarantee that everyone, rich or poor, can exert political influence on the success of the nation, with equal rights, duties and opportunities. In recent decades, attempts to do so have been severely suppressed.
But the 21st century has also started in Thailand, the AEC will start in 2015, and Thailand cannot afford too much anymore: the world is watching.
In short: Thailand needs time, a lot of time. If it wants to modernize, old traditions will have to be thrown overboard. Not only the old political relations between the rulers and the people, also the various corners of the world will have to learn to tolerate each other. The most difficult thing will be that people have to understand that origin, poverty or wealth are not the standards by which you behave towards others.
Thailand is entering a period of bitter seriousness, and that famous smile: it will come again!
I have little to add to this. I have been in Thailand for over 10 years and have a Thai wife.
I am sorry to say that I agree with you.
Nice piece, Tina!
In general, we have pleasant contacts with the Thai people. It doesn't really matter if they laugh or not. Even though a smiling face releases the same hormones as sunshine.
We also see the misery. You can say that is a Thai thing. Naturally. We are not supposed to solve the country's problems. They do that themselves. On the other hand, we have a responsibility. As soon as you feel that Thailand exceeds your ethical standards, you can consider leaving.
You've got it right for the most part. I've lived here for about 8 years and have already experienced a lot of unpleasant things. In all kinds of areas…relationships…doing business….violence….theft and burglary…drunkenness….jealous people…smog due to traffic and forest fires…..lies (among other things not to lose face) and so on. I live in Chiangmai with my Thai girlfriend. Here you don't notice much of what is happening in Bangkok, but there are still some debris here and there. That smile has many meanings… but is not always to be interpreted positively.
Thailand is a beautiful country, so far, but a lot is being done to destroy it. That is from politics to destroying the country itself. There is random construction and nature is only protected in a few places. Nature…everything that lives in the wild is killed here…they are not animals…no…it's just food…..The forests are also not very appreciated and often used as a dumping ground for household waste. Thais are neat on their bodies, but otherwise they are not real cleaners…rather perverts…..But let me be honest, I am a guest here and should therefore not complain. I am fortunate to have a good relationship with my girlfriend and family. I'm not being stripped financially, as is the case with many others. I am certainly not rich and will see when the money is gone whether I still maintain such a good relationship with my girlfriend and the family…………As a foreigner you are at the mercy of the gods here. If you are on vacation and you have enough money then you hardly notice it…then Thailand is the land of SMILE (read MONEY) except for a few cases…..maybe I am lucky or you or someone else…who knows!! !!
Gerrit vd Elst.
Very nicely written piece.
You certainly hit the nail on the head.
If you actually live here for an extended period of time.
Then you will certainly open your eyes , and you will experience how things actually work here .
If you come here on holiday or as a winter resident , you are afraid that you will not or will not be able to face reality .
Jan Beute.
It has taken me years , 7 , to understand what that smile actually means because until today I could not believe that this comedy really IS !!! Never in my life have I been able to stare at such a staged play that is so fantastically acted that, let's bet my entire estate, it can't possibly be taken that there isn't an ounce of seriousness in it. Everything and everything is based on money. Marx turns twenty times in his grave for this. And yet it is.
Yes, yet it is so very difficult to understand that there are beings that are no longer human beings for me and do not know a heart or love. They know no love because they have no heart. Relentlessly they are reincarnated in their own words and belief that they don't even know where their ambiguity blows over to the dual personality that turns their magical smile into a bitter look in a split second; the comedy triumphs and ruthlessly they dump you when your cart is financially empty. The famous industry that everyone has grown tired of in their own way turns into the hopeless search for love. As weak prey, you tear them apart without even knowing it. Those who do not yet realize this and think they will find happiness do not know that they are slowly but surely ending up in the sewers even worse, boneless. Just laugh about it like they taught you…
The land of smiles, I think, is true for tourists, but if you live here, and like me, have to work with these people on a daily basis, you also get to know their other side, and that is definitely there.
Lying, stealing, cheating, unfortunately it's also in their blood, that smile is fake, and can be put on at any time that suits them.
Of course they have good qualities too, and they appreciate it if you are honest with them, and treat them well as staff, but they have no loyalty, no matter how well you treat them, if they need money, they just take it, if they think they can make more money elsewhere, they just leave without saying a word.
As neighbours, they are terrible people, they only think about their own business, and if they have to destroy your business to do so, they have no problem with that (that's really from my own experience)
Jealousy is one of the traits that sometimes makes it so difficult to work or interact with them.
As a tourist or pensioner you can have a great time in this beautiful country, as an employer you often have to swallow and keep your mouth shut.
It's a pity that these people don't get better education and can't develop!!!!!
Land of smiles……..
And of the grimace;
And from the grin;
And the land of laughter;
And the land of the scornful smile.
Indeed, Thailand is not the tourist land of smiles.
Thailand is more and more the land of contradictions, which have always been there, but have become more and more hardened in recent years.
Don't deny that politics is very much to blame for this.
But, I've been living in Thailand for eight years now, and to be honest, I feel wonderfully at home here.
And that feeling doesn't really get any less.
Despite the fact that Thailand has changed terribly in those years.
Do I still want to return to the Netherlands?
Well no, not for gold.
The last time I was in the Netherlands, in 2009, I left 12 days earlier than intended, I should have seen it
The Netherlands where I grew up, the country where I worked for 40 years, no longer exists.
Completely forgiven by the import of people who do not want to accept the Netherlands as it is, but want to transform it into a country similar to the country they left.
A country where politicians see voters as voting cattle, and have no message whatsoever about what really lives among the population.
Hey!
How suspiciously similar to what you might think of Thailand!
Family members have lived in Indonesia for years.
I also had a few very good Moluccan friends during my school years.
In my youth I was simply imbued with another mentality, the Indian mentality.
And actually that mentality does not differ much from the Thai mentality
That's why I can't really be surprised about what happens in Thailand, what people do and think.
I accept it, it's none of my business.
Nevertheless, I am occasionally stunned to see the chaos that Thailand actually is.
I hope I can stay here!
And Hans is also right .
The Netherlands of 40 years ago , so to speak , of our youth .
Also no longer exists.
The Netherlands has also changed over the years.
Is also a reason for me not to return here.
Life in Thailand on retirement can also be seen as a choice between two evils.
Nowhere is it perfect , Shangrila does not exist .
I live here in Thailand, I made the choice myself nine years ago.
Now it 's here to make the best of it .
I know how things are here , from the few years of experience .
And now adapt me completely to the way of life here .
What they do to me, I do to them.
So also keep smiling with a certain thought.
Jan Beute.
The land of smiles hides many tears of sorrow.
Anyone who does not travel through Thailand as a very superficial looking rich tourist, with zero interest in what his or her eyes see, but does not want to interpret the mind, will understand this within a few days.
“The land of smiles” was the slogan of an advertising campaign.
I myself have already been able to distinguish several smiles. Ranging from the sincere, to the I have you by your customer….tn smile.
EVERYWHERE in the world it is still about the GGG principle.
God, Money and Hole.
The reason many of us spend our retirement in Thailand is that we met a wonderful woman, and our pension is worth three times more.
So that's already 2 of the 3 G's!
Personally, I luckily lost the 3rd G!
If I put myself in the place of all those Western men who absolutely want to live in Thailand and who absolutely must have a Thai partner, then I immediately agree with the statement given here.
As a long-term visitor (both short and long term) to this beautiful country and its beautiful people, I also have a right to speak, and I do not share the statement above at all.
It all has to do with realism and the choices you make.
Look consciously and realistically at a country and its population from the start, then you will/may notice that not everything is what it seems.
Thailand is a beautiful country, one of the safest countries in the world, a relaxed country, a country with good food, lots of natural beauty, a massage country, a shopping paradise, a cheap country, a good climate, and anyway a country with a pleasant population.
So if you opportunistically opt for the aspects in which this country DOES score high, then it is heaven on earth.
However, if you opt for a heavy commitment (living, getting married, investing your money in people and things that give you too little in return, etc.), you run the risk of being disappointed.
I think the same applies if you bring a Thai partner to our countries, let's be honest that the stories you hear and read very often don't sound very pleasant.
Keeping a certain realistic distance from things and people is my advice, just like the realization that besides the many wonderful qualities of this beautiful country there are also negative ones.
In the west we want to be over-civilized, in Thailand the government approaches many social issues in an idiosyncratic and non-democratic way.
From a distance this seems charming, if you have to deal with it yourself it can turn into a nightmare.
Again, be realistic in life and keep your distance from a country and its people.
For me, Thailand is certainly still “the land of smiles” and I have also had less good experiences.
However, I will never live among the Thai population and a Thai partner is not for me either.
This has to do with both respect for the Thai and self-preservation.
You say: “Thailand is a beautiful country, one of the safest countries in the world”. This statement strikes me as a bubbling gut feeling. Would you like sources that show this? And safe in what area? Food safety or road safety? Crime maybe? Well then someone has to help you out of your dream…
No dream!
By safe I mean that in Thailand you have little chance of being mugged and robbed, and that the chance of being scammed (unless you are so naive or just looking for the trouble yourself) is much smaller than in just about any other country in the world together.
I've lived in half the world.
Sources, myself and hundreds of people I know who go to Thailand regularly.
You can't keep a theory straight with a few examples, so I don't need individualistic examples that should prove the opposite.
Fine. Everyone has their own truth. Yours is obviously different from mine.
Thailand has stolen our hearts. But a lot has changed in twenty years. Phuket we loved it until the last time I had clothes made they had opened another shop in Patong beach. I couldn't find the street so I went to the hotel reception and asked where it was. Now for 200 baht he wanted to tell me where it was. Now forget it I won't. So called tailor it turned out to be at the back of the hotel. They were also attacked by the people who came in after us to pay because we sent them. Luckily they don't. Also reported to the manager of the hotel who was not happy and he no longer works there. In Pattaya the same in Montien hotel, the manager solved it fine and moved us, it turned out that she checked the suitcase labels of the hotel, measures have been taken for this.
A lot has changed in Thailand in 20 years, you only get a smile if you pay a lot.
And yet we love the country!
We have always felt safe in Thailand. But yes, certain places you should know, we will not go there. Don't dress up like a Christmas tree because that's asking for trouble. Don't wave a wad of money. We always make sure we have enough petty cash. Taxi don't turn on the meter then we get out. We think it's a pity that rich Thais bark at the normal Thai, we don't understand them but are not nice except for a few. We still love Thailand but not the south anymore rather go north and respect some customs hope to go again soon.
Dear Pat, I just read your piece……do you sleep all day at the beach or something……..a safe country!!!!!!….absolutely not….lots of road deaths….attacks…murders…robberies…. .sorry…..but you really are a vacationer. And yes,,,actually for the best….stay vacationer.
Furthermore, democracy is hard to find…corruption I think you mean….I don't really do politics at all….but I do see that this country will go bankrupt and abyss if people continue like this.
Why am I here……..because I wanted to enjoy life after all my work…….I do that too……but it is getting more and more difficult here.
If you don't live here you can't really estimate the conditions here…..even if you have been coming here for 20 years…..you have to live here…..then you can judge how you feel about it privately.
Have a good holiday.
I'm not talking about traffic, because you're right about that, because you don't necessarily always have to participate in that traffic (driving a car, riding a scooter).
Attacks, murders: they happen, but do they happen on innocent people or on people who are not involved in a certain fact?
So no, the Western man who tries to enjoy every day in a Thai city or on an island will not be a victim of attacks and murders.
And I know a lot of older people, very easy victims, who walk the Thai streets for years, even at night, without ever being robbed.
Try that in Antwerp or Amsterdam!! Shall we take the test??
I partially agree with the last thing you say, but even then you will have to admit that just about all other countries in the world score much worse.
Life is one big comparative study, that's my main point.
the land of smiles hahah.
I have been living in Thailand for 22 years and Tino, I agree with you 200% on this statement.
and yes, it was different 20 years ago, the big difference is that there are many rich Thais now and this group is getting bigger and bigger believe me. or is it more farangs with fewer resources who are going to settle ...... What you see more and more now is the farang who can hardly live on his pension in his own country, who comes to Thailand to try to be a "rich" citizen there. to live. a beer and some noodles, some indecent behavior and how do you think that comes across to a Thai in your own country?
think about that, the world has changed. everyone can travel these days and I wish it to everyone, but be decent for the mami on which Thais live or lived … ..
My opinion is that a certain group of farangs has contributed a great deal to the way Thais view “us” now and it is certainly not going to improve in the future. There is a "false" smile in many Thais, but let's be honest, ...... They do have something about those Thais, I think we all agree,
Smiling is a form of non-verbal behavior just like gesturing. Thailand has always been the land of smiles and will continue to be so for decades to come. However, we must not forget that that smile does not mean the same as a smile from a Dutch or Belgian person; like, even a gesture does not mean the same in every country of the world. In a booklet that I got from my former colleagues when I moved to Thailand 8 years ago (with the title: Working with the Thais) there is a paragraph explaining the 12 smiles of the Thai. Highly recommended to read.
@Tino: Your Thai teacher's generalized example hits the nail on the head, but I don't really get what surprises you, as a 'Thailand expert' (I can say that?).
Needless to say: as a developing country, Thailand has a big difference between rich and poor, with all classes associated with it. Up here, there is a consensus society in which hard confrontation is avoided in order to keep the long-term relationship on a friendly level as far as possible.
As Dutch/Belgian expats, we belong to the middle and upper class, depending on our budget. As wealthier consumers we receive extra bonus smiles. When the scales fall from the eyes over time, we notice that these bonus smiles are in stark contrast to all the misery that reigns in the background.
Personally, I prefer a Thai bonus smile than the grumpy head of a Jumbo employee in the Netherlands.
Land of Smiles, yes, as long as you don't end up at the bottom of the ladder.
Dear Siem, contemporary reality shows that TH is absolutely not a country of consensus: after 4 months of protest, people are all the further apart. I also don't see where a long-term friendship relationship is maintained: the various groups in TH are diametrically opposed to each other, with people not shying away from conflict. This has led to many casualties in the past. There is a harsh reality in TH that is camouflaged by appearances. You should only know how poor Isan is, let alone the misery in the south.
Dear Soi, I am well aware of the poverty in Isaan and the misery in the south. In total I spent more than half a year in both regions. I now live in quiet and reasonably prosperous Chiang Rai.
I feel that the many reactions to the statement are clouded by the protests and general dissatisfaction with the Thai way of doing things. foreigners, possibly partly based on experiences in the tourist areas as well as the poor regions such as Isaan.
Indeed, there is no consensus among the Thai people about politics and it does not look like it will be reached in the coming years, but I initially reacted substantively to the example of Tino's Thai teacher about the different reactions to rubbish over the fence to throw. In Europe, for less serious things, depending on social environment, people would swear, call the police, or in the case of the Netherlands, involve the Riding Judge, with the result that both parties have come to hate each other to the bone. This attitude, which in my opinion is not conducive to health, is not usually the way of dealing in Thailand and that is what I meant by long term and consensus.
Dear Siam, also not conducive to one's health is the constant sub-assertive manner enforced by social conventions towards those who are apparently higher on the social ladder, always having to swallow what the other allows, and cleaning up their mess with bowed head . See part 1 of Tino Kuis' example.
Part 2 is also unhealthy, because here it is impossible to say directly what someone has on their mind. If you want to achieve something, you have to package it. You always need a detour, it costs a lot of energy, and it is unsatisfactory in the long run.
Part 3 is of course completely unhealthy: for the suffering subject, who is always screwed by poverty, origin and is only snubbed; for the 'perpetrator' because aggression by definition evokes stress and enmity.
Again: I see no consensus, and in all 3 cases no basis for longer lasting peaceful relations. The smile is only there to conceal one's own mood.
Dear Soi, Tino's teacher's argument is a generalized and possibly extreme example to tell that in Thailand people usually prefer to resolve conflicts in the immediate environment according to class diplomatically or to acquiesce silently, which is in contrast with the direct approach in the West.
Of course it is better not to be the underdog as in cases 1 and 3 and the Thai smile also serves as a concealment of problems.
In case 2, there is a diplomatic approach to the solution for the benefit of a long-term peaceful relationship.
Consensus means agreement, (unfortunately) even if this happens more or less automatically on the basis of class differences.
The attitude mentioned is not something typical of Thailand, but is common throughout SE Asia and China.
Also in Japan, where I lived for three years, direct confrontation is avoided for the sake of the long-term relationship. And about health: In Japan people live the longest on average 😉
PS: Judging by previous responses, I understood that you wanted to come and live here, do you still want that?
Thailand the land of smiles?
I don't think so. Look at the street
to the usually grumpy faces
You only smile when you see a Farang and
think about earning some baht.
Enter a family art or any other supermarket
and experience the “service”.
Nevertheless, i love Thailand.
Khan Peter,
you are absolutely right……yes about the food…I forgot…….last month a number of complete families in my friend's village died of FOOD POISON……MUSHROOMS…they were sprayed a little too much with poison……. was not in the newspaper!!!!! that's life here…….so our holidaymaker should visit the villages.
Just a moment, my girlfriend's small village consisted of 4 people 206 months ago ... that is now about 188 .... cause ... food poisoning .... collisions .... alcohol abuse (Thai whiskey with too many additives)
For me, Thailand is still the land of smiles. My husband and I live 6 months a year in Thailand. In Pattaya. Sun. sea. beach, shopping, sitting on a terrace, meeting acquaintances, etc. We like living in the Netherlands, but again so happy to be able to go to Pattaya again. The people are happy to see you again and jump around your neck. It often depends on how you deal with people yourself and of course also on what your expectations are. Certainly none of us negative stories.
That holidaymaker never stops..... yes, I think you sleep on the beach and you can't get out of your chair or are you so naive? You get scammed here every day man …… it starts with the redcab or the tuk tuk … .. and I could name a few more … but I don't feel like it ….
And what do you think of robberies… theft……… yes if you live in a hotel and not among the population, you have less chance of robbery and theft.
Again… you are and will remain a holidaymaker and now you have convinced me that you indeed do not know how society functions here.
In the Netherlands you are already a criminal if you commit vandalism and everything is recorded there. Here a lot is mutually arranged and it remains unknown… even for example rapes are handled financially… here you will be shot to pieces for 5000 baht….SAFETY is here how you behave and where you are at that moment. (I know something about crime… been a cop for 14 years)
But don't think that only the Thais do this!!! Don't forget your compatriots who live here in Thailand, they also steal from you…perhaps because people here don't care what farangs do to each other…security is poorly organized here…just believe me.
Happy Holidays!!
Moderator: Now it's chatting. Please stop doing that.
I have now been to Thailand twice and I do think that it can be called the land of smiles in my humble opinion.
Let's take a closer look at the statement.
Like any country, Thailand also has its weaknesses. The current and past political crises along with the rice farmers not getting their hard earned money are just 2 of these points. But let's be honest: that's all the media sees of it. Everything that is positive is simply not discussed in the media. So we only get a negative image of Thailand presented by the media and one can consistently claim with this incomplete picture that Thailand is not the land of smiles.
Thailand, however, is so much more. Thailand is a beautiful country. Beautiful nature, beautiful temples, beautiful ladies :). Thailand has friendly and hospitable people – and let's be objective: the people there may be as poor as the street, they are always friendly. Our Western society could learn something from this.
Now the question is, what are you focusing on? That is, after all, a choice. Do you concentrate on what you read in the media (and where only sensational news and/or bad news is reported) or do you choose to also want to see the positive? If we say that Thailand is not the land of smiles, are we not seeing Thailand as we Westerners see our homeland?
Think about it carefully 🙂
Courteous responses are always welcome 🙂
Best regards,
Bruno
Such an interesting discussion!
Too bad the points of view harden and drift away from the actual subject.
The Thai Smile is here and will live on for a long time!
No country in the world has this “Smile Culture”. Here and there Thailand blog has done its best to provide some clarity for "Farangs" about the background of this "mystery".
We should not make the mistake, as above, of wanting to understand, explain and apply the Thai Smile with a Dutch background.
The Thai Smile (Yim) is a given. Do not link this to politics, corruption, etc. We agree that these elements could be much different and better according to our Western standards.
As Globalization also progresses in Thailand, hopefully the level of democracy will increase.
Furthermore, it seems realistic to assume that the Thai Smile will also slowly submerge due to several Western influences. Shame! Another cultural impoverishment
Dear Bruno,
I don't read newspapers here in Thailand .. what I experience myself and see that I reflect. My girlfriend's stories also give me an image. My girlfriend is a positive young woman who does not speak ill of anyone…truly Thai. Does have her opinion but keeps it to herself… also Thai.
I still love Thailand, but I also think. I focus on normal life….that was different before….but with trial and error I learned a lot. The smile is of course still there here and there, but it is getting less and less. Normal working people who have to get by on about 10 thousand baht a month don't have it easy. But when they go out, they do it well and show that Thais know how to party.
I see it this way; the SMILE is seen by the tourists and snowbirds very differently from the people who live here permanently. The people who live here see through it and know that the SMILE is a form of survival.
I therefore have all the appreciation for the people who have honestly written their opinion.
Hello, I still see Thailand as the land of smiles. Going on vacation for a month now for 9 years, and see changes around me, while I personally don't notice much of it. Due to the rise of Arab and Russian tourists, the Thai attitude towards this population group has changed. Where "we" get everything done with a friendly smile (mutually), the Thai seems to be taking a step back with this population group. the thai population feels that they are being cornered and are losing jobs and space as a result. (of course it is). Entire streets are being bought up, crammed with coffee shops and hotels where no Thais are employed. I can well imagine how a Thai feels, and therefore does not always have a big smile for everyone. Frank
Let's try to keep the discussion clean by noting that if you come to TH as a tourist you will definitely encounter the famous Thai smile. Especially in the well-known seaside resorts, also during visits to highlights through bus tours throughout the country.
Do you live in TH, and have more encounters with Thai people in everyday life, and not just in hotel, beach, restaurant, shop or stall, then see how hard their life can be, plus the living conditions that have made the Thai laugh .
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Massive appreciation for the excellent content of the article. So true and to the point.
Been coming to Thailand for at least 20 years, live there 2/3 of the time, have my family and relatives here.
For years I have seen that smile as a sometimes dangerous and all too often sanctimonious facial expression. Most Thais can conjure it up on command. At best, it is avoiding politeness, confrontation and, above all, responsibility. Sometimes it's better not to know what the smile means.
As long as you can create your own world, have enough money and a few good friends (unfortunately too often falangs in the same boat), you'll be fine here.
Keep smiling yourself, keep yourself out of everything, especially don't express a different opinion. Then you can have a great life here.
For a short-lived tourist, that smile may be pleasant. In the end we even help German tourists ah beach v Scheveningen (but oh weh behind their backs).
Fortunately also very good experiences and nice people here in no thailand. So the balance remains positive.
You will never really fit in. As the Turk in the Netherlands, even after 20 years you keep visiting.
It is very annoying that after a while you notice how intolerant and dangerously aggressive those so-called nice and smiling Thais are towards each other. Groups and families are at each other's throats.
Rarely seen a society where materialism and superficiality is so great. Money and origin are of great importance.
Honesty and openness are scarce, everyone stands up for their own petty interests. No one keeps appointments.
Here in the Isaan, alcohol and the often associated unpredictability and aggressiveness is a huge problem.
It's an art of survival to see through that unreal smile and surround yourself with some real people over the years.
Friendships between Thais are often of little significance and only last as long as both parties benefit from each other.
Fortunately, among all those negative feelings, the positive ones dominate after all these years. Although they are often due to external factors such as the free life due to the lack of all those rules that are so dominant in the Netherlands.
As far as interpersonal relationships are concerned, however, you would sometimes like to exchange the Thai smile for the blunt honesty / openness in NL.
Too often that smile means hiding from any responsibility. Superficiality and disinterest.
The good weather, easy life and a few good exceptions make the thailand experience ultimately positive.
However, the smile can be stolen from me.rather real feelings.
@ Tino, I enjoyed your statement again,… the Thai smile, but certainly the reactions elicited by it. I read it all again and put the paper down again,…but with a (Dutch) smile 🙂
After reading the comments, I notice that some bloggers react so negatively about Thailand, it seems as if they live there as a punishment or go on vacation and in certain comments I even read hate between the lines..
It is often the same people who first advertised Thailand in this way.
It is said in a response that children in Thailand are taught how to lie from an early age, does this also apply to families where the husband is a farang (Dutch) for example?
And let's be honest, we the farang have often asked to be cheated.
Are we setting a good example for the Thai? With how some of us behave in Thailand?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who see everything through rose-colored glasses.
I too have my negative experiences in Thailand, but they do not outweigh the positive experiences I have in Thailand and I have been coming and living here for decades.
But to paint a population of almost 70 million people over the same brush is going a bit far for me.
Of course there is a lot wrong in Thailand, and a lot has changed in the last 25 years or so, but we must not forget that social media has also played a very large role in this, people have become much more vocal and more informed, people can be very easy to communicate with each other.
Times change problems that were already there in Thailand and that we had never heard of are now entering our homes through the media.
Even though it is often much more extreme in Thailand when it comes to corruption and violence than in many other countries.
You cannot compare one country with another, you also have to take into account poverty and education, etc., and that cannot be compared to the Netherlands, for example, and if there is a shortage of education and money, then you already have the basis to make a country look like Thailand is now.
And if as I read it now many think that the Thai has a fake smile, or that the Thai has lost all his credit and no longer has the right to smile.
Let us, the farang, the tourist or expat, whatever you call it, at least keep smiling, because at least that smile of ours is real and we know how to do it all.
Land of smiles? You certainly mean laughing. Nice example that happened last week. Opposite me, about 20 meters away, there is an open-air karaoke with a large boombox. My Thai neighbors have already called the police a few times, nothing helped. Well, a little further on lived a Farang, nationality unknown, who asked if they could turn the music down a bit, because no one could sleep, The Thai visitors shouted at him from all sides that if he didn't like it, he had to he better go to his own country, he could take a beating too. Indeed, the land of laughter. I've been hanging around here for about forty years, this for your information. Keep smiling and polish the lenses of your rose-colored glasses up.
I am only a white person, compared to other falans, who have lived and lived here for years (married or not). I am not involved in politics, leave people who are corrupt alone. In those months that I live here I still enjoy the hospitality of the Thai people every day. My statement is: I am and will remain a guest in this beautiful country, live according to the rules and laws here and be a little happier every day (that's all up to you, by the way). But I have to confirm one thing, when I visited Pattaya in 1 years, peace and tranquility reigned there. Now, recently, I'm back, I've been amazed! This place has (in my humble opinion) changed A LOT. In all perspectives.
I now enjoy my old age in the Northeast and my life motto is : LIVE AND LET LIVE. For me, the LAND of the SMILE still exists. CARPE DIEM
Like anywhere in the world, myths are perpetuated by those who have an interest in them. Likewise in Thailand. Favorable for tourism. I have been traveling around regularly for 2 years now, reading and talking to people and taking a good look around me. You must be blind or do not want to see that there is great social injustice in Thailand. Individually, people try to organize themselves and make life possible. But the organization of governments at all levels is failing. The people are good, but as in many countries, the wrong people are in the right places. You can rightly speak of a “failed state”.
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your opinion about Thailand and its inhabitants is influenced by what kind of Thailand you live in, because there are many Thailands, the north cannot be compared to the south. Krungthep Mahanakon can hardly be compared to Parimonton, which is barely 25 km away. A city cannot be compared to a lost village somewhere in the banook.
And then there are the ethnic differences between the Malay, the Lao, Khmler Sino/Thao and the Thai from the central plains.
In short, Thailand is a kaleidoscope of many colors. So everything depends on where you live and the people you interact with on a daily basis.
And the story of the 3 possibilities typifies the Thai soul thoroughly. And now it is very important what your status is, but even more important is the status of your partner, 1-2- or 3, which determines how you interact with your environment.
Are just a few comments colored after almost 40 years of Thai culture experiences.
Dear Henry, I agree with you that most of life takes place in Thai society, say on a micro level. You give examples of that. But there is also the greater Thailand. Besides living in a direct environment, on that micro-level, either in a house in a street in a village in Isan, or in a luxury condo in the better neighborhood of BKK, life in Thailand is perhaps even more affected by greater events.
As one commenter to another entry noted that he (quote): “[is starting] to dislike [his] beloved Thailand more and more. The innocent people/children who died during the demonstrations, the problems in the deep south, the corruption, the jet ski mafia, the many balcony falls in Pattaya/Phuket, the bus/train/boat accidents and now another hard-working entrepreneur who is murdered. Going well there in Thailand!” (end of quote)
He describes states on mesonivau, which all in all cannot be accepted no matter how you twist or turn it. And then you have the events on a macro level: let's just take contemporary politics, and what it has not already delivered in recent months.
You can say that none of this directly affects the retiree.
Finally about the 3 examples in the article above: I have always been a manager in my 44 years of working life in NL from my high school diploma. Never have I stroked or applauded my directors for anything; never have I snubbed my co-workers; I have always communicated in an open and direct manner. The fact that this is not possible in TH, for example, seems to me a great loss. Many of the abuses reported by commenters on many articles would not have taken place if it were communicated in an open, direct, honest manner in TH. I know that this isn't it. I also understand where it comes from. But that they maintain it, in 2014: that is not acceptable to me. Not at all when you see how much it bothers people in TH, so much so that they have lost their laughter!